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  • There is a misconception that ONLY Goku can become SS4 whenever he wants and that there is no reason to it, that he is a Special Case with no evidence for explanation. That is clearly wrong. Old Kai said Goku needed his tail to become Super Saiyan 4, he also stressed how the effects of artificially(Blutz Wave Machine) gaining GA and such would have unnatural affects(shown with the fact that even Vegeta lost his rationality and all as a Great Ape since he had no tail and was forced into GA that way) Goku was called a special case because he actually has his tail which NOBODY else has in GT. Literally the whole point of getting his tail back was for Super Saiyan 4.

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    • Exactly. If Vegeta had his tail, he would be able to achieve Super Saiyan 4 whenever he wants. In fact, if either of them would be able to achieve SSJ4 as a special case, it would be Vegeta who could make the powerball (The artifical moon he made) Vegeta could do it if he had his tail.

      Another thing. There has been somethign floating around. I don't know if it's official or just speculation, ut they say that Goku turns into a grown up when he becomes SSJ4 because he can't handle the power of it in his kid form (alternatively, some said it had to do with his power going beyond Shenron's power to hold him as a kid, but I'm not sure I believe that.) My personal opinion is that Goku as a SSJ4 is STILL in his Great Ape form and that once he had enough power and control over it, he could manipulate it's size. He could therefore change it's shape back into a humanoid form if he desired, and it just turn into how he sees himself. Despite the fact that he is a kid, he has been an adult for longer. He would likely see himself as an adult therefore his SSJ4 form is him as an adult. It seems likely that he (if he desired) could be a Super Saiyan 4 in his base form.

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    • Not to mention, there is one thing about SSJ4 that I think. It is all about control in both body and spirit. If you can achieve it then it shows your ability to keep control over your urges and even ki. If SSJ4 requires a certain amount of ki control, then by modern standards of classification, SSJ4 is actually a god-like form.

      I say this because Ki control is the key to unlocking god-ki and god-like forms such as Super Saiyan Blue and Golden Form Frieza.

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    • Idk about it being a god form, but yes an Official GT Licensor, Funimation was interviewed for more info on GT and they shared what they know about GGA and SS4(One can assume they were given info for it naturally) while on the other hand they also did not seem to care too much about the rest of the details concerning the information. They only knew a few things.

      Such as

      " this is a special mode only achieved after the Super Saiyan 3 level. " showing another reason why Vegeta can't awaken the form on his own is that he not just lacked his own tail, but he lacked SS3 too.

      and

      " While Goku may have turned into a little kid, the power of Super Saiyan 4 is so great, it’s far too much for a little kid’s body to harness. Goku’s body is forced to take on its natural adult state to channel the power. "

      So yes if somehow Kid Gohan was to get SS3 and his tail back, and then get SS4 it would make him an adult while using the form.


      https://www.kanzenshuu.com/press-archive/anime-insider-december-2003-feature-the-qt-on-gt/

      Mind you heroes anime and heroes manga disregarded needing a tail or SS3 to get and keep SS4. Gohan was hit with the brutz wave machine and ended up with SS4, yet later he was able to turn into the form on his own vs Shroom and defeat him with one attack. So ONLY in GT do you need your own tail and the SS3 form to be able to get GGA and then SS4 and be able to keep the form.

      I also want to point out that the Licensors are usually given info as to not screw up when dealing with the series though that doesn't always stop them from getting some things wrong like in the original Dragon Ball Z English Dubbing

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    • Ah, so that WAS official. Hmm. Well, I can't argue with that. It makes sense in it's own way. The Heroes anime and manga did retcon that a lot though. Who knows anymore. But one thing is certain. I really wish that Vegeta had achieved Super Saiyan 3 in GT. That would have been so awesome.

      Though, I must state something. There is a bit of a hiccup there, as he said that "Vegeta did not have Super Saiyan 3" However, the official guide for it states that Super Baby Vegeta 2 was Baby Vegeta's equivalent of Super Saiyan 3. Perhaps that just meant power and not the form proper? Or perhaps it doesn't count due to it being Baby? I dunno. But I wonder.

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    • It was artificial, Baby's power was what caused that mutated SS3 form. Vegeta would need his own tail back and SS3 on his own in order to get GGA and then SS4 and then be able to go SS4 whenever he wanted, in GT that is.

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    • Cool. Some people dispute whether or not SSJ4 has a potential unleashed factor, but I believe it does. After all, Baby in his Super Saiyan 1 form was of the equivalent of Super Saiyan 3 Goku strength. That means that in everyform that Goku and Baby share, Baby will always be 8X stronger. If GGA Goku and GGA Baby were to have at it, GGA Baby would win due to being 8X stronger. However, SSJ4 put Goku on the same level as Baby, so there MUST be something there to give him a higher PL. I personally believe that as SSJ3 unlocked the hidden potential of Goku (Like Potential unleashed) That Super Saiyan 4 does the same, but then adds in the power of Great Ape (X10) and then unlocks the potential of the Great Ape form which could explain the extra power boost. It is a Super Saiyan transformation that makes you stronger, then unlcoks your human potential, then adds Great Ape to it, and unlocks the Great Ape's potential too. It is a fully encompassing form that gives a Saiyan 100% of their full possible power (currently) Ya see, this is sort of why I think it's better than Super Saiyan god, but lets not start that here. I don't want to get that started here again.

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    • Well between us, I don't think it's better than Super Saiyan God from after the BoG, I know it's better than it. But yes lets drop that and keep to what we were talking about. SS4 in GT, Goku had all the requirements to get and keep SS4, Vegeta literally had none in the Shadow Dragon Saga. 

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    • True. Vegeta didn't have the tail or Super Saiyan 3. My question is if Vegeta would be able to learn that skill. I know he only unlocked Super Saiyan 2 after he achieved it with the Majin form. My question is if Vegeta can even reach Super Saiyan 3. I heard a rumor somewhere that it is a genetic thing. Somebody mentioned something called a "Pride Gene" which is why he can't use it, and Goku has a different gere. Do you know if that's true? Or is it total BS?

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    • According to the Daizenshuu 7 Special Attack Dictionary, both Goku and Vegeta attained the level of Super Saiyan 2 through harsh training during the seven years between the Cell and Majin Boo arcs. His power just wasn't high enough to match Goku's until the Majin stuff. That pride gene stuff is total bs btw, I haven't seen nor heard anything about it on Kanzenshuu or from its mods either and they keep on top of everything.

      In the series SUper Saiyan 3 has only been unlocked by fusions or somebody who was dead, but Goku also said it was possible for Caulifla to get it and she was alive so I think its about power level and level of mastery with SS2

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    • Yeah. Okay, I just wanted to know. I hope Kale gets it. It would be AWESOME to see LSSJ3 Kale.

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    • with the LSS line, discarding the card game which is in no way usable anyway... it goes SS, LSS, LSS3, LSS4 and then LSS4FP. LSSGod is also an option there is no LSS2 outside of the card game tbh

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    • Very true. There were rumor from Broly: Second coming due to the way he was stronger and the fact that the tint of his hair had changed from lime green to yellow green with yellow beign the dominant color. It personally think he was stronger, not because he awakened LSSJ2, but instead because he got a Zenkai. What we see in this movie is not LSSJ2, but instead was a form he had shown previously. "Legendary Super Saiyan Full Power". This is actually a forgotten form that people don't often recognize as a part of the Legendary Super Saiyan family of transformations. When Broly goes LSSJFP his hair shifts to golden yellow only, and some people who saw it thought that he got WEAKER going to C-Type. No, this LSSJFP is even stronger than LSSJ. That's what I think we saw. What we saw was a bit of a recollor for the LSSJFP form. It is just LSSJ, but at full power.

      However it must be stated that this wiki considers Kale's Controlled LSSJ state from the anime to be Legendary Super Saiyan 2. I don't know if that is official or speculation, but if you desire to see, here is the page.

      Legendary Super Saiyan 2

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    • I saw that, but that was anime only, never replicated in the manga or any movie by any other Legendary Saiyan(Either of the Broly's) In the actual episodes it was only referenced as "True Legendary Super Saiyan" or something

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    • Yeah. That's true. I never emember hearing them call it LSSJ2. To be perfectly honest, I didn't like it. There are just a set of requirements in my mind to be a Legendary Super Saiyan. 

      1. You've got to get pumpped. A Person with muscles so big they look like they'll pop like balloons.

      2. You've got to have blank eyes.

      3. You've got to act like you are about to kill everything (friends included.)

      Kale's LSSJ2 broke every single one of those requirements and became nothing more to me than another color on Toriyama's pallet. No different than Super Saiyan Blue, just a different color.

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    • Her "LSS2" form was made up entirely by the anime staff, and it was only called SS2 in a toy and a card I believe. Why we are accepting toys and cards as canon for information I don't know lmao

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    • Yeah, Kale may be extremely powerful, but that form is just another color in the rainbow. They stripped it of everything that made it special. Lets hope we don't see it again.

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    • I hope we see LSS a lot and that everyone gets it, including pan while she's a baby.

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    • God I love the sarcasm lmao. Yeah LSS Yamcha would be next in line IMO

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    • Yamcha not wishing on Shenron to become a saiyan when trying to join the U7 team makes less sense than the constant Buu trolling.

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    • I hope they bring Broly into the series eventually, I really like his character. I agree with FlatZone makes no sense that they think Vegeta can’t go SS4 at will. He literally does it in heroes numerous times(the only current media we have for SS4)

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    • I hope Broly introduces SSJ4 into canon. Broly and Gohan are quite similar in many ways. They both have insane potential, they both seem to loathe fighting, but they both seem to gain almost impossible strength when they get angry, and they are still the only characters to ever be shown to use the Ikari form. (Gohan did it a few times in canon and A LOT of times out of canon.)

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