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  • I wanna start this thread about unpopular opinions of Dragon Ball anime.

    I don't know if this is unpopular or not when it comes to this but I have to say it.

    DBS anime is actually bad if we draw comparison to DBZ. DBS being sequel to DBZ is insulting. If we see it as standalone anime like if we take off sequel in our eyes, it's ok/good. This is similar situation to One Punch Man where S2 as standalone is ok/good but sequel to S1 is a disgrace.

    DBZ is like Godfather 1 and DBS is like Godfather 3.

    Godfather 1 > 2 >>>3. I would say Dragon Ball(original) is Godfather 2. Hopefully when new series comes( maybe that Dragon Ball Ultra), I hope it's close to Z. GT and Heroes are non canon. I would say: DBZ > DB >>>>GT>DBS >>>>>>DBH.

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    • DBS isn't THAT bad to me. I mean, GT seemed to make more sense, I must agree. The way that Super Saiyan forms seem to get more and more monkey like the way they grow, the way that Old Kai kept mentioning the not using the Dragon Balls in Z and then the Shadow Dragons appear in GT, etc. But Super did have a lot of things I liked. I like the Goku Black Saga (which a lot of peopl didn't really. I like the god forms too, such as SSG and SSGSS, and Ultra Instinct. It's all good to me, but I can see where you would disagree.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      DBS isn't THAT bad to me. I mean, GT seemed to make more sense, I must agree. The way that Super Saiyan forms seem to get more and more monkey like the way they grow, the way that Old Kai kept mentioning the not using the Dragon Balls in Z and then the Shadow Dragons appear in GT, etc. But Super did have a lot of things I liked. I like the Goku Black Saga (which a lot of peopl didn't really. I like the god forms too, such as SSG and SSGSS, and Ultra Instinct. It's all good to me, but I can see where you would disagree.

      For me it's bad compared to Z because of multiple reasons:

      1. Writing. Writing in Z is not all that perfect but it makes sense compared to DBS. in Z; it took Goku years and years to achieve SSJ forms and it took him years to go from moon level to Solar System level, even multi-Solar System level with SSJ3, maybe even beyond that. Vegeta doesn't even get that, sadly but he also made sense, maybe I would say Vegeta is underrated. Dude get SSJ in Cell saga and SSJ2 in Buu saga. That's it. Goku got SSJ2 and SSJ3 in Buu saga and Gohan got SSJ and SSJ2 in Cell saga and PU in Buu saga.  But writing in DBS is horrible compared to DBZ.

      It started good with BoG where Goku did ritual to turn SSJG and then he absorbed it in Base/SSJ. From now on his base/SSJ should've been untouchable by many many characters who cannot do feat he did in BoG. Well, we thought. Almost everyone is > Base Goku which doesn't make sense. But more of that little later. Vegeta trained with Whis for 6 months and he is now on Goku's level. So based on this if you train with angel for 6 months you somehow can perform feat similar to Goku? That doesn't make much sense.Ritual does make sense, if Vegeta did ritual and did train with Whis, I would say OK. Frieza is somehow on par with SSJB forms aka above SSJG BoG form because he trained but get this: he didn't train with Wis, he trained alone. As of this; writing in DBS started going down and down. Based on this logic why didn't Z fighter achieve SSJG level when they trained in Z, like this? They did get stronger but based on DBS logic they all should one shot Cell or Buu with a blink. 

      Now sure Frieza has great potential even greater than Gohan but thing is, Gohan with his PU he didn't magically become stronger than SSJG Goku , he didn't magically like could use 3+ clashes/punches with Beerus that entire Universe 7 would be destroyed. PU Gohan is still weaker than Z Vegito who even Goku said in BoG arc that wouldn't do shit against Beerus and SSJG Goku did better. And now somehow Golden Frieza is even stronger than that. Then we go further with Base Copy Vegeta destroying SSJ3 Gotenks then, U6 fighters are all magically stronger than SSJG Goku. In FT saga; Trunks somehow magically could sense Goku's energy ( he was in SSJ) and I thought only GoDs and Vegeta could sense Goku's godly Ki and not people liek Trunks. Trunks never met Beerus and Whis so he didn't train with them, so he could achieve it and later he was on par with Black who in Base > SSJB Vegeta who went through some zenkai's to be > SSJR Black. LOL X2. Like, what is going on? Then we have Fused Zamasu having difficulties with SSJBKKX20 Goku.

      In ToP it's even more screwy. Somehow Gohan is able to go to SSJB level with training with Piccolo for some time and got lolstomped by Frieza and his henchmen and Frieza was first form IIRC. Somehow in ToP he's as strong as SSJB at best. Same with 17 he like was beating Poachers and saving animals and he's magically on SSJB level. Lol and many many more like how Caulifla could go SSJ and SSJ2 in mere days unlike Gohan who trained and who had reason to.

      Then we have Goku's transformations. In Z Goku had : Kaioken with Base, SSJ,SSJ Buffed, SSJ2 and SSJ3.  5 transformations in BoZ to Buu saga. In anime that's like 10+ years. So Goku in 10+ years ahd 5 transformations. It's good.

      In DBS he had: SSJG,SSJB, SSJB with KaioKen, SJBG(allegedly), UI and MUI. That is 6 transformations in 2 years, maybe 3 tops. LOL. That doesn't make much sense at all. If it was 10 + years I would say OK. 

      Vegeta is much better: SJBG, SSJB and Royal Blue. 2-3 years 2-3 transformations. Much better.



      2. My second reason is music. Bruce was a mastermind, a genius. Music now is bad( I was mainly talking about dub, since dub > sub) compared to DBZ music. 

      3.Gore and blood and graphic. It feels like punches don't hit that hard anymore, it feels empty like it was degared to be less gore-y. Almost no blood, we have seen like couple of scenes with blood, there's almost no mutilation like in DBZ. DBS manga is factually better in that than anime. DBS anime feels like for kids, I don't understand. DBS is not even impactful like DBZ when it comes to everything. You can see characters being tense and fighting for life.

      and 4. Animation: It's bad , Z also had bad animation but none like DBS, DBS had some episodes like Vegeta vs Jiren where they're better than Z much much better but mostly it was bad.Watch DBZ's Final Flash against Cell vs DBS's against Maggetta. It feels liek DBZ's is much stronger, better, and more impactful.

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    • I do agree to a point. But some things I actually understand. Vegeta catching up to Goku was simple for me to grasp. In Base form, Goku and Vegeta are the same, except, Goku had the ability to go Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta proved though that he didn't need that when he fought Beerus and did better than Goku. The fact is, when Vegeta trained with Whis, he didn't just get stronger or have to use the ritual. He instead learned how to MAKE god-ki all by himself. After all, from what I've seen in the series, god-ki and mortal ki are essentially the same thing, just used in a different way. Vegeta learned how to add the power of Super Saiyan god to his Super Saiyan form just like Goku. So that was no big deal to me. It was the god-like saiyan form people talk about (A technique, not really a form) 

      As for Frieza, it is speculated that what Frieza is using (Golden Frieza) is a god-form. He was shown to be able to sense Beerus, so it is likely that Frieza attained the ki control that Goku and Vegeta had. After all, he knew Beerus longer than both of them and was the emperor of most of the universe. It isn't surprising that he would discover god-ki eventually. Until Namek, he had no reason to try to get stronger. That's how I rationalize it.

      When you say Trunks could sense Goku and then you mention (SSJ) do you mean that Goku was n SSJ? Or Trunks was in SSJ?

      I have no clue how Gohan grew so strong. Maybe he started trying to obtain god-ki? I don't know. Does Piccolo know how to teach that? Does Piccolo even have that? That made zero sens to me as well, but everyone was happy so I over looked it.

      A lot of people had problems with that. The only way I can see it is that Fusion has no set multiplier. It is as strong as it needs to be. Vados said it is 1+1 X 10s of times. I guess 20X was Zamasu's limit. After all, Zamasu was weaker than Goku.

      Android 17 made no sense either. I had hoped that he would return as Super 17, like he had been upgraded or something. That would have been SO COOL and would have meade better sense, but IDK.

      Caulifla made sense to me. According to Toriyama, a Saiyan who lives peacefully has more S-Cells. I know that this shouldn't make a difference, afterall, Goku lived a full life of peace. But I think it has something to do with the fact that the Saiyans of U6 have ALWAYS been peaceful. Kind of like this. Goku was strong, but his father had low S-Cell count. Then Goku has a peaceful life and has Gohan. Because Goku had a large S-Cell count, Gohan had a larger one because Goku's peaceful life carried over to Gohan's, and when Pan was born, she was stronger than even Gohan at such a young age due to having inherited the extra S-Cells of her father and Grandfather and therfore has more potental. I think it's like that. Caulifla was strong because of the peaceful life that she, her father, her father's father, and his father before him. This is how I rationalize it. After all, they are strong enough to not need a tail anymore, anything is possible, right?

      As for forms, Goku's Super Saiyan god form was given to him. It is really kind of like a baseform. and Super Saiyan Blue was him using Super Saiyan with god-ki. I can see that happening. If Goku and Vegeta can grasp what god-ki is, these two forms would be givens because it is basically like re learning base form and Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken is ust adding Kaioken to Super Saiyan which Goku had done in past filler episodes. He just couldn't do it whle alive because Super Saiyan's ki was uncontrolled. Super saiyan Blue requires perfect control and therefore could stack Kaioken. UI and MUI are actually the exact same form. Think of it like Super Saiyan and Pseudo Super Saiyan. It's the same form, just one is perfected and the other not. It is probably true that they gave Goku too many forms too soon, but it is implied that he had been learning UI his whole life, which explains his strange way of fighting Burter and Jeice, and his actions against Omega Shenron where SSJ4 Goku almost clearly admits to using UI.

      I don't know much about music. I haven't really paid attention to many songs beyond Kachi Daze, so I take your word for it.

      Blood and gore. It is likely that Toei was trying to welcome a younger generation. The way that they nerfed the violence in the Game Kakarot shows it. Kids are just a little weaker in constitution these days. They just don't want to alienate younger fans and scare away potential viewers with blood and severed hands.

      Animation! LOL! Have you seen those clips of the early episodes? They had to ACTUALLY appologize and remake those episodes. I do thing Goku's shape was a bit thicker and he was very shiny in skin tone, similar to an action figure. But if the Broly movie is any guess to what it will be in the future, it will go back to the origina DBZ design, so plus there!

      As I said, I like GT, but Super was good too. Truth be known, I just like to watch ALL Dragon Ball except for OG Dragon Ball. I would rather read that in manga. Super's exicution could have been better, but hey, at least it wasn't as bad as Dragon Ball Evolution.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      I do agree to a point. But some things I actually understand. Vegeta catching up to Goku was simple for me to grasp. In Base form, Goku and Vegeta are the same, except, Goku had the ability to go Super Saiyan 3. Vegeta proved though that he didn't need that when he fought Beerus and did better than Goku. The fact is, when Vegeta trained with Whis, he didn't just get stronger or have to use the ritual. He instead learned how to MAKE god-ki all by himself. After all, from what I've seen in the series, god-ki and mortal ki are essentially the same thing, just used in a different way. Vegeta learned how to add the power of Super Saiyan god to his Super Saiyan form just like Goku. So that was no big deal to me. It was the god-like saiyan form people talk about (A technique, not really a form) 

      As for Frieza, it is speculated that what Frieza is using (Golden Frieza) is a god-form. He was shown to be able to sense Beerus, so it is likely that Frieza attained the ki control that Goku and Vegeta had. After all, he knew Beerus longer than both of them and was the emperor of most of the universe. It isn't surprising that he would discover god-ki eventually. Until Namek, he had no reason to try to get stronger. That's how I rationalize it.

      When you say Trunks could sense Goku and then you mention (SSJ) do you mean that Goku was n SSJ? Or Trunks was in SSJ?

      I have no clue how Gohan grew so strong. Maybe he started trying to obtain god-ki? I don't know. Does Piccolo know how to teach that? Does Piccolo even have that? That made zero sens to me as well, but everyone was happy so I over looked it.

      A lot of people had problems with that. The only way I can see it is that Fusion has no set multiplier. It is as strong as it needs to be. Vados said it is 1+1 X 10s of times. I guess 20X was Zamasu's limit. After all, Zamasu was weaker than Goku.

      Android 17 made no sense either. I had hoped that he would return as Super 17, like he had been upgraded or something. That would have been SO COOL and would have meade better sense, but IDK.

      Caulifla made sense to me. According to Toriyama, a Saiyan who lives peacefully has more S-Cells. I know that this shouldn't make a difference, afterall, Goku lived a full life of peace. But I think it has something to do with the fact that the Saiyans of U6 have ALWAYS been peaceful. Kind of like this. Goku was strong, but his father had low S-Cell count. Then Goku has a peaceful life and has Gohan. Because Goku had a large S-Cell count, Gohan had a larger one because Goku's peaceful life carried over to Gohan's, and when Pan was born, she was stronger than even Gohan at such a young age due to having inherited the extra S-Cells of her father and Grandfather and therfore has more potental. I think it's like that. Caulifla was strong because of the peaceful life that she, her father, her father's father, and his father before him. This is how I rationalize it. After all, they are strong enough to not need a tail anymore, anything is possible, right?

      As for forms, Goku's Super Saiyan god form was given to him. It is really kind of like a baseform. and Super Saiyan Blue was him using Super Saiyan with god-ki. I can see that happening. If Goku and Vegeta can grasp what god-ki is, these two forms would be givens because it is basically like re learning base form and Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken is ust adding Kaioken to Super Saiyan which Goku had done in past filler episodes. He just couldn't do it whle alive because Super Saiyan's ki was uncontrolled. Super saiyan Blue requires perfect control and therefore could stack Kaioken. UI and MUI are actually the exact same form. Think of it like Super Saiyan and Pseudo Super Saiyan. It's the same form, just one is perfected and the other not. It is probably true that they gave Goku too many forms too soon, but it is implied that he had been learning UI his whole life, which explains his strange way of fighting Burter and Jeice, and his actions against Omega Shenron where SSJ4 Goku almost clearly admits to using UI.

      I don't know much about music. I haven't really paid attention to many songs beyond Kachi Daze, so I take your word for it.

      Blood and gore. It is likely that Toei was trying to welcome a younger generation. The way that they nerfed the violence in the Game Kakarot shows it. Kids are just a little weaker in constitution these days. They just don't want to alienate younger fans and scare away potential viewers with blood and severed hands.

      Animation! LOL! Have you seen those clips of the early episodes? They had to ACTUALLY appologize and remake those episodes. I do thing Goku's shape was a bit thicker and he was very shiny in skin tone, similar to an action figure. But if the Broly movie is any guess to what it will be in the future, it will go back to the origina DBZ design, so plus there!

      As I said, I like GT, but Super was good too. Truth be known, I just like to watch ALL Dragon Ball except for OG Dragon Ball. I would rather read that in manga. Super's exicution could have been better, but hey, at least it wasn't as bad as Dragon Ball Evolution.

      1.That also doens't make sense but still there are worse examples. Like SSJ3 is 400x Base, right? Vegeta somehow in SSJ2 enraged went above 400x multiplier if their bases were same. That doesn't make sense. That makes no sense; he learned to make God Ki himself magically? Why didn't they do it in DBZ when they trained tirelessly. I mean I understand he did that thanks to Whis, but still it makes no sense that in 6 months he's able to do that. Goku used ritual to achieve SSJG and to absorb it, while Vegeta did with training. Still makes no sense, so if Goten trains with Whis for 6 months, that kid would be way way stronger than almost all Z characters.Ritual was fine but this trainig with Whis and magically gaining super power to be able to destroy Universe with 6 months training is bad.

      2.God Ki thanks to what? He didn't do any training with Whis, he didn't do ritual. It's bad, admit; writing is shit. So you magically get god Ki when you train for like a 6 months or more. Why didn't they do it all in Z? Trunks and Vegeta in Android saga logically should've been Universal busters because they trained 1 year in HTC.Knowing him =/= magically gettign God Ki, why didn't King Vegeta get magically God Ki? IIRC he knew Beerus aswell seeing how he interracted with him. It's bad.It makes no sense.Frieza achieving GF is ok and normal. But his GF having God Ki is factually bad because of what? Being " friends" with Beerus. Lmao. Not to mention that 4th Form Frieza( aka not Golden form aka "not God Ki" form as you would say) is on par with Base Goku who > SSJG BoG Goku or on par. So 4th Form Frieza could pull up SSJG BoG Goku feat withotu "God ki" since you said GF has only God Ki. Alas, it doesn't make sense either way. 

      3.Goku was in SSJ forms so was Trunks.

      4.That's why writing is bad; this God Ki somehow anyone can magically obtain it, only thing that made sense is Goku thanks to Ritual. If Vegeta did ritual and obtained it: hooray it makes sense and Blue makes sense on top of it, but everyone else makes zero sense: no ritual no training with Whis; liek 17,Gohan, Frieza, Caulifla and anyone above Base Goku.

      5.That doesn't make sense how are they peaceful soo much that they are somehow above ritual aka above SSJG Goku, it makes zero sense who would destroy Universe with punches. Zero sense. How anyone basically that is not Goku( no ritual) is able to perform that feat, unless that feat is retconned which is not as far as I know). Kale on other hand I understand since she's Legendary SSJ, so it makes sense way more than Cabba and Caulifla. And Caulifla could go SSJ and SSJ2 in mere days make no sense even with peaceful argument. Honestly this would've been way better: Caulifla to appear in U6 saga and she could go SSJ and in ToP she goes SSJ2. To put soul in the wound, they said that Caulifla could go SSJ3 in ToP. HAHAHAHAH. Like this girl could go SSJ,SSJ and SSJ3 in mere days. Gohan on other hand went SSJ with training and SSJ2 because of Android 16, it makes sense, Caulifla was like: I can do it, if Kale died and Caulifla went SSJ2 I would say that's OK. Not to mention just to defend Z, Goten and Trunks could go SSJ yes but thing is they're still SSJ and SSJ2 like Caulifla,they get magically SSJ and not SSJ2 so it's still fine, if Caulifla went SSJ and that's it, everything would be fine but no; she went SSJ2 after that. LMAO.

      6. Actually, Goku never went KaioKen on SSJ forms except in movies/and non canons. In manga you can clearly see that he did went KK on Blue but that was pretty temporary and it was x2 IIRC, in anime it's permanent like he could go KKX20 for moderate periods of time.That's why I don't count Manga's KK, but anime's I do. I also can see SSJG and SSJB happening and that's it.Anything beyond in that short amount of time is asspull and bad writing. Imagine Goku going SSJ and SSJ2 and Saiyan saga, against Raditz SSJ and against Vegeta SSJ2. That'd be bad. UI and MUI are same form but different power and hair-style and it was an asspull. A technique that they can beat Jiren and after that it's gone until he can do it again when plot requires, that's bad writing. Even bigger is MUI.If Goku got UI in Moro arc and mastered it way later like near the end of Dragon Ball (whichever saga will be) I would be good, but doing that in one arc so they can beat Jiren and Goku doing that instantly where GoDs took time and time? That's bad.

      7. Animation was bad in DBS apart for some episodes, hopefully in new series if it comes they would be back to good animation and blood and gore.

      What would've been way better for DBS was to wait until manga finishes and they make anime out of it. Manga and Anime are way different when it comes to DBS and manga's writing was much better while it had soem moments in ToP, I admit that. 

      Anime should've followed manga. 

      Now, in manga there's no RoF saga. I know there is promotional manga for RoF movie but that happened before manga even started. Manga at least makes some sense until ToP.

      Now just to say that we can't use RoF movie-manga for RoF saga because everything is retconned.

      Example: BoG movie= no 3 punches or everything will be in jeopardy.

      BoG manga: if they continue this Universe will be in Jeopardy

      BoG anime: 3+ punches or 6 punches and Universe will be destroyed.

      Based on this movie=/= manga =/= anime, thus RoF saga if it happaned in manga it would've been retconned. 

      So Broly movie is just movie and anime and manga will retcon that if Broly appears in manga which I don't remember, I don't think so. In anime I think we will see Broly saga.

      So based on manga : Goku is not universal, that punches are retconned because it could be like 1000 punches until universe is destroyed and they never said Universe will be destroyed but in a jeopardy. 

      Vegeta has SSJG unlike in anime, that means he was given it which makes way more sense than Vegeta somehow getting it via 6 month training. Also in manga it's clear that  SSJB > SSJG >SSJG BoG>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 >>SSJ2 and SSJ

      in anime: SSJB > SSJG or SJBG >>>>>>>>>SSJ3 >>SSJ2 >SSJ > Base > SSJG BoG which makes no sense. 

      Little rusty on manga but yeah, like speaking generally: manga's powerscaling and writing is better than anime's, while manga's writing is not as good as Z's.

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    • Well, the reason this works is simple. When Goku obtained god-ki through the ritual, he had his power boosted as well as the power he borrowed from the others. It stands to reason that to achieve Super Saiyan god, you must be of a certain PL and then able to boost it to 6X it's normal ammount and hold it all in. As we saw in the anime, all of the users were wiped out from it, so Goku took their full power and stacked it to his own. When Vegeta trained with Whis, he was building his ki. That's what Whis had him doing. The hard workouts to build ki, and the house cleaning to build focus. Then when he put Goku and Vegeta in the staff, he obtained it. Frieza naturally has this much ki when he trains. So it would not be so hard to achieve a god form. The god-ki that people get is just mortal ki used more effeciently. Toppo was not a god, nor did he go through a ritual, and he achieved Destroyer Mode. This tells us that Destroyers are just Mortals who achieve god ki. Whis continuously asks Goku if he wants to be a Destroyer one day. Super Saiyan Blue was actually originally a crutch to achieve SSG again. They did not have enough ki to go SSG, so they used the power of Super Saiyan to boost their base form ki to not only match, but exceed SSG. This is why Vegeta achieved SSGSS first.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      Well, the reason this works is simple. When Goku obtained god-ki through the ritual, he had his power boosted as well as the power he borrowed from the others. It stands to reason that to achieve Super Saiyan god, you must be of a certain PL and then able to boost it to 6X it's normal ammount and hold it all in. As we saw in the anime, all of the users were wiped out from it, so Goku took their full power and stacked it to his own. When Vegeta trained with Whis, he was building his ki. That's what Whis had him doing. The hard workouts to build ki, and the house cleaning to build focus. Then when he put Goku and Vegeta in the staff, he obtained it. Frieza naturally has this much ki when he trains. So it would not be so hard to achieve a god form. The god-ki that people get is just mortal ki used more effeciently. Toppo was not a god, nor did he go through a ritual, and he achieved Destroyer Mode. This tells us that Destroyers are just Mortals who achieve god ki. Whis continuously asks Goku if he wants to be a Destroyer one day. Super Saiyan Blue was actually originally a crutch to achieve SSG again. They did not have enough ki to go SSG, so they used the power of Super Saiyan to boost their base form ki to not only match, but exceed SSG. This is why Vegeta achieved SSGSS first.

      I don't think that's how it works or is this another bad writing move from anime: if he took it from them and add 6x to that. How is that making him like Universal or performing that feat?

      Beerus used less than 1% against all Z fighters and even if Goku added 6x on that, it's at best 1% of Beerus maybe 2%. I don't think 1%-2% or even 3% of Beerus is able to destroy Universe in 3+ punches, especially since Beerus is Universal. Hell not even 10% of Beerus is able to do that, 20%= OK still bad but justified.

      That doesn't matter. Building his Ki to achieve God form is factually shit writing since they all did it in Z and they didn't get this much power up in small amount of time.I know God Ki didn't exist back then but "busting" did. Goku went from moon level at 24(however his age is) to Solar System level in Buu saga(which is 10+ years) so he was like 36/37+ when he went Solar System buster. That's justifiable progress. But going from multi-Solar System level or even Galaxy level( Vegeta) to Universal in 6 months is factually bad, if he took 10 years to go galaxy -> universal. Ok, that makes sense. Since he magically did it in 6 months that'd bad. Same with Frieza. Frieza was Star level at best. So you're telling me (that's why it's worse) that in 6 months you can go from Star level to Universe level? Or same with 17 and Gohan ( especially since Gohan get beaten by 1st form Frieza). 

      Frieza's even factually worse he didn't train with Whis and he did it in 6 months; Gohan back in Z had way way more Ki and logically he should've had that God Ki even after 1 year of training if Frieza did it in 6 months.

      Also what makes Frieza different than Gohan so Frieza's God Ki is justifying? Nothing. If Frieza has God Ki, so does Gohan. If Frieza did it's in 6 months, do did Gohan, but both are bad because of short amount time and "everyone can achieve God KI".

      Toppo is different since he obviously trained many many years to achieve that form and who knows what happened maybe Belmod helped him like he gave him some energy to do so( I mean same could be said for Vegeta that Whis could give him some energy to help him achieve that which if we go by that: fine: Whis helped him good.), same with Jiren. Problem here is Frieza doing that in 6 months without Whis, 17, Gohan, Trunks ,Piccolo etc that everyone is magically stronger than SSJG BoG Goku and some are on current SSJB level. Which makes zero sense.

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    • Frieza during Namek was over Solar Sytem level. From my calculations, 18,000 was what Vegeta was. Without even a sweat, he busted planet Arlia with one hand, barely building energy. Half of 18,000 is 9000. due to the way Vegeta easily destroyed Arlia (and is't moon) and the reaction between Nappa and Vegeta, 9000 must be planetary. In Super Saiyan on Namek, it was confirmed that Goku had a PL of 150,000,000. Using division adn assuming that all solar systems have 10 planets (I'm counting pluto and planet 9) like ours does, Goku on Namek could have busted 1666.6 solar systems. That sentance that Cell used about "Having enough ki to blow away the whole solar system" was total bull. He was MUCH higher. Goku and Gohan trained and was greater in power than Super Vegeta and Super Trunks who had grown 10,000X base form. Goku and Gohan could have destroyed 333,200 after training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Then Gohan multiplied that by 2 when he his Super Saiyan 2. Gohan could have destroyed 666,400 solar systems. Goku trained in other world, and Buu was so strong that he could be sensed from the Planet of the Kais which exists outside of the known universe (Toriyama shows it floating in a pocket universe outside of the main universe like a moon) Goku could match Buu, so his energy could be felt to the Land of the Kais. That was what Super Saiyan 3 Goku was. He was over galactic to be felt to the outside of the universe. And we must not forget that when Goku almost destroyed the universe, he was fighting Beerus who is a destroyer and clearly universal. The fact is, the whole "busting" system is a little screwy. SSG is universal, but not TOO much stronger than other forms. So either our scale is screwy, or other forms are MUCH stronger than we think. Eithr that, or we need to stop usining the REAL LIFE universe to judge forms from a fictional universe. After all, Broly in Z was galactic level as we see from the movie's start. (The whole "The south galaxy has been shattered" scene from the begining.) Broly was maybe SSJ2 strength.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      Frieza during Namek was over Solar Sytem level. From my calculations, 18,000 was what Vegeta was. Without even a sweat, he busted planet Arlia with one hand, barely building energy. Half of 18,000 is 9000. due to the way Vegeta easily destroyed Arlia (and is't moon) and the reaction between Nappa and Vegeta, 9000 must be planetary. In Super Saiyan on Namek, it was confirmed that Goku had a PL of 150,000,000. Using division adn assuming that all solar systems have 10 planets (I'm counting pluto and planet 9) like ours does, Goku on Namek could have busted 1666.6 solar systems. That sentance that Cell used about "Having enough ki to blow away the whole solar system" was total bull. He was MUCH higher. Goku and Gohan trained and was greater in power than Super Vegeta and Super Trunks who had grown 10,000X base form. Goku and Gohan could have destroyed 333,200 after training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Then Gohan multiplied that by 2 when he his Super Saiyan 2. Gohan could have destroyed 666,400 solar systems. Goku trained in other world, and Buu was so strong that he could be sensed from the Planet of the Kais which exists outside of the known universe (Toriyama shows it floating in a pocket universe outside of the main universe like a moon) Goku could match Buu, so his energy could be felt to the Land of the Kais. That was what Super Saiyan 3 Goku was. He was over galactic to be felt to the outside of the universe. And we must not forget that when Goku almost destroyed the universe, he was fighting Beerus who is a destroyer and clearly universal. The fact is, the whole "busting" system is a little screwy. SSG is universal, but not TOO much stronger than other forms. So either our scale is screwy, or other forms are MUCH stronger than we think. Eithr that, or we need to stop usining the REAL LIFE universe to judge forms from a fictional universe. After all, Broly in Z was galactic level as we see from the movie's start. (The whole "The south galaxy has been shattered" scene from the begining.) Broly was maybe SSJ2 strength.

      Frieza on Namek is over Solar System level? LOL NO hahahahha. Cell said that his Solar Kamehameha could've destroyed Solar System. So, Frieza is on that level? Lol no.

      That planet is probably as big as Pluto, Vegeta is already Earth leveler.

      Wrong, first using power levels aka numbers is wrong since they don't make sense. That's why PL in numbers are not used past 150,000,000 number. If you wanna get technical with 150,000,000 and say that 9,000 is Earth level bust.

      Divide 150,000,000 and 9,000 that's 16,666 Earths, let's even round it to 20,000 Earths. So, SSJ Goku based on that logic can bust 20,000 Earths if we go by PLs? Lol no. 

      Another thing to point out you a) don't understand how Solar System works or what is Solar System( it's not just Sun and 8 planters BTW) and you don't understand how big Sun. Approx 2 million Earths can fit into Sun, if we go by your BS PL calculation, SSJ Goku can but Large planets and not Solar Systems let alone 1666 Solar Systems hahahhahha.

      I would advise you to google Solar System or Sun and check your facts. 

      Another thing to point out that Cell's statement is not BS, it's a fact. And those statements are actually factual or semi-factual. Frieza to be Star level. Then we have Androids  who are stronger and SPC. Hell, maybe even Frieza Final Form is not even Star level aka Sun level, Maybe it's even Small Star level. Anyway, SPC is confirmed Soalr System buster and that's it.

      Lol no, those are all asspulls you took from an ass. Gohan is alo Solar System buster by Cell saga, it's pretty evident you don't know how does Solar System work, it's pretty annoying that people don't know shit keep pushing that narrative like they're on correct path, while they're not.

      Wrong, there's only one Universe which is Universe 7 and SSJG Goku is somehow able to destroy and later with MUI he's also Universal+ because he scaled to Beerus who is confirmed Universal too) which is shit writing to begin( because later Goku doesn't do this feat at all so either this get retconned or that feat is not Universal from Goku's side aka Goku and Beerus 3+ punches could destroy Universe and Beerus used like less than 10% and Goku used FP so Goku would be multi-Galaxy+ level by that feat, similar how is Manga DBS Goku which proves manga DBS has better writing than Anime) with but gets worse, like way worse with somehow Gohan, Trunks can do it too etc .There's no multiple universes within Universe 7 which make no sense.

      If you're one of those DBZtards who think that Buu saga characters are Universal like Vegito and Buu you're wrong. Because , Goku himself said in BoG saga that Vegito himself who > Vegito from Buu saga because time has passed, couldn't do shit against Beerus and SSJG BoG Goku did. That proves Vegito is not Universal or no one from Buu saga. At best they'd be Galaxy level or soemthing like that. 

      I don't use real life universe to Universe 7 because of several things.

      RL Universe expands itself SoL or FTL, Universe 7 is obviously in a "bubble" that doesnt' expand because we clearly see borders. 

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    • Oh and BTW

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRen_Z3-2y4

      If DBS was like this plus add gore and blood, it would've been much better. 

      And would've been > DBZ if you remove shit writing.

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    • First off, I was having fun until you took it to a mean level. Tell me why Star level is lower than solar system level. A star is almost 99% of the solar system. If Frieza was star level, then he is Solar System level. Broly (Who is SSJ2 level) was a galaxy buster. Watch the movie. He was. Buuhan was 4X Super Buu and was universal level. That is Super Buu, Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo. And now he is Universal, regardless of what people say. If your actions can end the universe, you are universal.

      This was fun until you began to insult me like you have, I will warn you now. Fix your additude or there will be reprucussions.

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    • Diameter of our Solar System is 287.46 BILLION km while Sun's 1.3927 MILLION km. I didn't know million = billion or even million > billion. LOL.

      Approx 1.3 mil Earths can fit into Sun. Imagine how many Earths can fit into Solar System.Exactly like 300+ billion Earths. You think Frieza can destroy that many if he can destroy Sun?

      I didn't know that you destroying a Sun aka 1,3 million Earths is same as you destroying 300 billion Earths. LOL

      Star is amost 99% of SS? Nope, look at diameter of Sun and SS.

      Movie is non canon and that's different: 1)Goku could travel to Galaxy in the movie,that means it's not destroyed, 2) Broly used FTL speed to destroy Galaxy with his Ki attacks over time, imagine firing like 1000 Kamehamehas and destroying Galaxy or most parts of it over certain time, not to mention that he did that over some time because of certain way Galaxy is destroyed, he started center then goes all way to the end, it took him months, probably years to do so. 

      and 3) didn't I say it's non canon? Broly becamse canon with Broly movie.That's a fact.

      Buuhan is not Universal. Lmao HHAHAHHAHA. Universal thing was introduced in DBS, Again, did you read?You probably missed by statements: 

      Goku literally said that Vegito who > Buu Vegito doesn't even stand a chance against Beerus, and SSJG had a chance.

      If we go by that logic of Buuhan being Universal and Vegito > Buuhan by many sources, Goku wouldn't even say that he would say: "Hey Vegeta we can use Potara and destroy Beerus without that SSJG BS or maybe we have a chance" but nope, he literally said Vegito stands no chance against Beerus but he was confident that SSJG would at least have a chance. 

      Vegito at best is Galaxy level so is Buuhan. Universal my ass. If you go about statements from Vegito saying that Universe will be crashed to justify Buuhan being Universal, that's laughable because that implies that Universe will be crushed because of his tyranny that would rule forever since Buu is basically immortal when it comes to dying of age, since it's a blob. If we go by that ; then literally everyone who is immortal by age that can destroy City at best is Universal( if we imply nothing kills him) because over time aka in infinite amount of time he can fire 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 City level attack that would turn into Universal level buster. LMAO. So, in Gajillion years that guy can destroy Universe and somehow that makes him Universal? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. We take them to what they could do in FP in their present state like in fight time and not in like what they could do in 1-2 years. Vegito would in FP in like 10-20 minutes could destroy Galaxy, maybe liek huge one so would Buuhan. We're not saying that Vegito destroys galaxy and then eats Senzu Bean to regen and then destroys Galaxy eats SB again to regen and destroy third Galaxy etc etc, if we go by that yes he would be mulit-Galaxy or Universal over like several years. LMAO 

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    • Well, Piccolo fused with Kami, Kami might know a lot.

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    • Actually, it's true that the sun makes up 99.86% of the solar system. And by make up I mean mass. Fun fact. I also read where it said that while the earth can fit into the sun over 1,300,000 times, but the mass of the sun is only 3/9th it's diamiter being that it has approximately 333,000 times the mass of earth. So to destroy the sun completely, you would only need to have the power to destroy the earth completely 333,000 times.

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    • Super Goku is stupid as hell. When Goku’s friends were being attack by an ANGERY Beerus, Goku just stayed on King Kai’s planet and let then suffer, he’s obsessed with fighting strong opponents, he nearly killed Krillin TWICE (and don’t give me the “God Kamehameha could’ve only heavily hurt” BS, Goku exerted so much power into that Kamehameha that Krillin was screaming like he was about to DIE), and most importantly: when Goku suggested that Frieza could join the Universe 7 Team, EVERYONE, including his own son, THOUGHT HE WAS INSANE.

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    • PsychoSSF2 wrote:
      Super Goku is stupid as hell. When Goku’s friends were being attack by an ANGERY Beerus, Goku just stayed on King Kai’s planet and let then suffer, he’s obsessed with fighting strong opponents, he nearly killed Krillin TWICE (and don’t give me the “God Kamehameha could’ve only heavily hurt” BS, Goku exerted so much power into that Kamehameha that Krillin was screaming like he was about to DIE), and most importantly: when Goku suggested that Frieza could join the Universe 7 Team, EVERYONE, including his own son, THOUGHT HE WAS INSANE.

      You don't seem to like Super Goku huh? Hmm I know this has nothing to do with what you're talking about but friend can I ask what is your favorite version of goku?

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    • Kiryuthunder1 wrote:
      PsychoSSF2 wrote:
      Super Goku is stupid as hell. When Goku’s friends were being attack by an ANGERY Beerus, Goku just stayed on King Kai’s planet and let then suffer, he’s obsessed with fighting strong opponents, he nearly killed Krillin TWICE (and don’t give me the “God Kamehameha could’ve only heavily hurt” BS, Goku exerted so much power into that Kamehameha that Krillin was screaming like he was about to DIE), and most importantly: when Goku suggested that Frieza could join the Universe 7 Team, EVERYONE, including his own son, THOUGHT HE WAS INSANE.
      You don't seem to like Super Goku huh? Hmm I know this has nothing to do with what you're talking about but friend can I ask what is your favorite version of goku?

      Dragon Ball Z's Goku.

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    • My Fave s ofcourse GT Goku, but I like ALL Dragon Ball.

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    • PsychoSSF2 wrote:
      Kiryuthunder1 wrote:
      PsychoSSF2 wrote:
      Super Goku is stupid as hell. When Goku’s friends were being attack by an ANGERY Beerus, Goku just stayed on King Kai’s planet and let then suffer, he’s obsessed with fighting strong opponents, he nearly killed Krillin TWICE (and don’t give me the “God Kamehameha could’ve only heavily hurt” BS, Goku exerted so much power into that Kamehameha that Krillin was screaming like he was about to DIE), and most importantly: when Goku suggested that Frieza could join the Universe 7 Team, EVERYONE, including his own son, THOUGHT HE WAS INSANE.
      You don't seem to like Super Goku huh? Hmm I know this has nothing to do with what you're talking about but friend can I ask what is your favorite version of goku?
      Dragon Ball Z's Goku.

      My favourite is also DBZ Goku

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      My Fave s ofcourse GT Goku, but I like ALL Dragon Ball.

      Me too, even though Z Goku is my favourite but we love all Dragon Ball Series

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    • Exactly. I love GT Goku because he's so hilarious. There's just something more funny for Goku when he's a kid. His personality matches the GT body he has.



      Not to mention that the most brutal you will ever see Goku is in Super Saiyan 4. In Super Saiyan 1, Goku was kind enough to spare a universal warlord who killed Krillin. In Super Saiyan 4, Goku ruthlessly slaughters a mole sized dragon because he dared to hold Pan Hostage

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    • Disliking Super isn't that unpopular, and it's generally agreed upon that Z is better. There are a few circles who prefer GT over Super which is fine. Personally I hate GT with a burning passion, but that's just me.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      Exactly. I love GT Goku because he's so hilarious. There's just something more funny for Goku when he's a kid. His personality matches the GT body he has.


      Not to mention that the most brutal you will ever see Goku is in Super Saiyan 4. In Super Saiyan 1, Goku was kind enough to spare a universal warlord who killed Krillin. In Super Saiyan 4, Goku ruthlessly slaughters a mole sized dragon because he dared to hold Pan Hostage

      Not to mention he attacked Baby without mercy.

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    • Something was so refreshing about that. It was like "Let's not kid ourselves, you need to die and you need to die now. And it needs to be painful..." That was even better than watching him give ki to a dying murderer who slaughters millions at a time. Some people just need to die, and SSJ4 Goku got that. GT Goku may have been just a little under Super Goku's strength, but he was MUCH wiser.

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    • The fights with GT were pretty good, I'll give it that. Super Saiyan 4 was also cool.

      I just didn't like how they just kept rehashing ideas and ignoring ever character who wasn't Goku or Pan. Also wasn't fond of the whole Goku is kid thing.

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    • What I disliked the most was how after the Baby arc, Pan was reduced to "Damsel in distress" rank when she should have gone Super Saiyan or something and become even stronger. I hope that Super does that better.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      The fights with GT were pretty good, I'll give it that. Super Saiyan 4 was also cool.

      I just didn't like how they just kept rehashing ideas and ignoring ever character who wasn't Goku or Pan. Also wasn't fond of the whole Goku is kid thing.

      Umm... Goten vs. Baby?

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    • the Baby arc was the only one where the non-Goku characters did anything, which is why that arc is the best

      but even then it was just so they were mindcontrol fodder for Goku to later fight

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      What I disliked the most was how after the Baby arc, Pan was reduced to "Damsel in distress" rank when she should have gone Super Saiyan or something and become even stronger. I hope that Super does that better.

      Well in moro arc from the manga version, toyotaro give Z-fighter some good spotlight again

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    • Behaving like a child just doesn't fit to an adult Goku, like in Super, if he had behaved like the Z-version, it could've been more acceptable. Toriyama chose to make Goku more childish again like in Dragon Ball, but imo in doesn't fit good in the continuity, because of the mature behavior he showed in Z.

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    • I get Goku is always a bit childish at core, but GT took it way too far. At the end of the day he's still an adult in a child's body with his adult experience, but that's just hard to believe since he's chucked out all his wisdom.

      Plus it's just weird seeing Gohan and Goten calling this kid "dad"

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    • In Z Goku is less childish than in Super where he's extremely childish and foolish.

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    • well yeah, but that's also attributed to 1) Goku having more screentime than Z and 2) the world being at threat much less so Goku doesn't have to be serious as often

      he is still a tad too childish though

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    • I thought GT Goku acted wise at points in time. He only acted childish when he didn't have to be serious. You have to admit, his personality fit better than his Super Counterpart. I don't know what they were thinking when they destroyed Goku's character like that.

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    • Mgdodl wrote:
      In Z Goku is less childish than in Super where he's extremely childish and foolish.

      AND insanely stupid.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote: I thought GT Goku acted wise at points in time. He only acted childish when he didn't have to be serious. You have to admit, his personality fit better than his Super Counterpart. I don't know what they were thinking when they destroyed Goku's character like that.

      I thought Toriyama was responsible for that ?

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    • My opinion on all DB series in short:

      DB - MASTERPIECE

      DBZ - MASTERPIECE

      DBGT - Very interesting concepts that were not delivered on(shadow dragons, Goku having a grand daughter, chance of grown up Trunks/Goten, chance of pan not being an insufferable twit), SS4 Was ultimately epic

      DBS - Very cool concepts that were not delivered on(the entire other world of power and ki, entirely new set of forms vastly superior on a base level to the previous, expansion on the hierarchy of U7), UI was ultimately epic

      DBS: Broly - MASTERPIECE

      DBS Manga - got a rough start, prefer some things in the manga. Looking like it’s going to go up from here.

      DBH - Not really a DB series.

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    • I know who you are, you're the guy that argued with Drxd.

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    • I am? I lose track of who I argue with honestly. I have very unpopular opinions and a not so flexible will.

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    • Dxrd is the guy who refused to apologize to you and Flatzone, what a stubborn fool.

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    • I forgot all about that honestly.

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    • Oooh that guy, yeah I did too honestly.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      I thought GT Goku acted wise at points in time. He only acted childish when he didn't have to be serious. You have to admit, his personality fit better than his Super Counterpart. I don't know what they were thinking when they destroyed Goku's character like that.

      i think toriyama didn't like goku character in DBZ, thats why he want to make goku in DBS looks childish that only care about stronger opponent 

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    • DBS Manga Goku is more like Pre-Saiyan Saga Goku. That's the direction they were trying to take Goku as a character personality wise.

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    • Honestly I rather the manga Goku so much more than the anime Goku. I kind of miss the maturity and serious focus Buu Saga Goku has but the manga Goku is absolutely nothing to sneeze at.

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    • FlatZone wrote: DBS Manga Goku is more like Pre-Saiyan Saga Goku. That's the direction they were trying to take Goku as a character personality wise.

      I liked him more in DBZ, now my preference in Vegeta only gets much greater. Why are they always letting Goku finish of things instead Vegeta.

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    • I have a feeling you’ll like this months chapter of the DBS manga. You can read it on Viz.com.

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    • Not saying I like Goku's excessive childishness in Super, but I just can't take him or anything in GT seriously. Yes I liked Kid Goku in DB, but it just doesn't work here. Pan is calling a little boy who's younger than her "grandpa" and he swims naked. It just doesn't work..

      Super does a lot of things wrong, but it treats the rest of the cast better.

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    • Well, I can mostly ignore it in GT, but in Super Goku's childishness is annoying, his childishness doesn't fit in Super unlike in DB.

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    • well either way, both post-Z Gokus are dumber

      Probably took too many blows to the head

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    • LOL! Blows to the head.

      I'm just saying. GT Goku had a reason to act childish. Super Goku doesn't. And as for character treatment, BOTH GT and Super did the secondary characters dirty. The only reason why Krillin and Gohan got their power back was for T.O.P plot. And to be honset, the same happened in GT with the Shadow Dragons. They all showed up and gave it their all fighting against Omega. Even when Goku seemed to have died.

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    • Guess that's a matter of opinion. For me it bothers me that he's childish and looks like a kid when he's supposed to be an adult. While with Super it's only his personality and there's otherwise still a degree of normality to their day-to-day interactions.

      I disagree with the secondary characters. While they don't fight as often in Super, they do frequently show how they are living their peaceful 'retired from fighting' lives and are seen happy with their families now. GT just forgot they existed save for Baby Saga

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    • Stryzzar wrote:

      I disagree with the secondary characters. While they don't fight as often in Super, they do frequently show how they are living their peaceful 'retired from fighting' lives and are seen happy with their families now. GT just forgot they existed save for Baby Saga

      Super 17 Arc and the final battle of the Shadow Dragons Arc: "Are we a joke to you?"

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    • To be certain. GT and Super both have Goku problems. I personally prefer GT Goku to Super Goku, after all, that child body fit the personality better, but I can understand how odd it is to see Goku as a child again, especially when he is a grandfather now. I still think that Super overdid the whole stupid Goku thing too. I at least admired him when he had some form of maturity.

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    • If Toriyama just kept and liked the DBZ personality from Goku !!! 😭

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    • What I find bad in Dragon Ball is the fact that Goku defeats the enemys too often, the writers seemingly doesnt't let others defeat the enemy. This makes Dragon Ball boring and dull.

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    • Well that is something Super attempted to do with the Goku black saga. Which is why it’s the most beloved of all the sagas is super. Vegeta had a great time in the limelight and so did Vegito. In the end it was plot— er I mean hope armor trunks that defeated him. Well, Zeno really did it but I give Trunks the kill in the anime. GT and Super served their purpose and had their flaws, frankly I’m ready for something new to move onto with the best of the previous series. Seems like they’re doing that with the manga so far.

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    • If it's Vegeta or Beerus or Whis that defeats Moro, I'm ok, but just not Goku, that's just dull.

      Well, the writers had to destroy the world and somewhat let Zamasu win, to bring Zeno into the main timeline.

      Except that they changed how the potara fusion works, using the Metamoran fusion would've been better instead of using something so popular.

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    • I hope also that it’ll be more of a group effort. I liked seeing potara fusion, it was pretty cool for them to show that they could do it too. Also Vegito is my favorite. But I also can see the appeal of a fusion dance instead, leaving potara as permanent.

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    • Or at least unknown like in DBZ, they didn't know what happened in DBZ.

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    • I would like to see one of the Earthlings defeat an enemy. Krillin is close to god-level strength now I guess. I would love to see Roshi and Krillin perfect their human-style Ultra Instinct and reach a power that can even rival Goku.

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    • Krillin is nowhere near god level man.

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    • Krillin was around Namek Saga first form Frieza level in Buu Saga iirc.

      Even now I have doubts he could match Namek Super Saiyan Goku

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    • PsychoSSF2 wrote:

      Stryzzar wrote:

      I disagree with the secondary characters. While they don't fight as often in Super, they do frequently show how they are living their peaceful 'retired from fighting' lives and are seen happy with their families now. GT just forgot they existed save for Baby Saga

      Super 17 Arc and the final battle of the Shadow Dragons Arc: "Are we a joke to you?"

      Yes. That’s exactly my thoughts. They were all treated like jokes, just fodder and might as well not even have been there.

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    • Well, I mean, he fought against SSGSS Goku. I mean, I know that Goku was holding back, but still. That's an impressive feat. No Ego Zone gives him a maor boost. I want him to explore that power and make it his strength. It can push him so far if he uses it right. This is likely the technique that a human could use to achieve the power neccessary to match a Saiyan. And If it were possible to add Kaioken to it, that's closing in on SSGSS.



      Here's to dreaming that Krillin can be anything more than the new Yamcha.

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    • That’s more a feat for Goku showing his restraint. Despite his overwhelming power SSB offers, he can use it to fight anyone no matter how weak. He can only pull this off due to ki-control.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote: Here's to dreaming that Krillin can be anything more than the new Yamcha.

      How could he be the new Yamcha ?

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    • Another unpopular opinion from me: Frieza is overrated.

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    • Maybe so, but doesn't undermine his importance to the series

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    • Frieza isn't THAT overrated. I mean, sometimes when people over talk the Namek saga. I enjoyed the Frieza fight, but I feel it ran about 30 episodes too long. It could have been handled like Goku and Vegeta's fight with Kid Buu. Constrained to about 10 episodes.

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    • I think they mean people hype Frieza up as the best DB villain. It's either him or Cell for me.

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    • Mgdodl wrote:

      Ya Boi King Kai wrote: Here's to dreaming that Krillin can be anything more than the new Yamcha.

      How could he be the new Yamcha ?

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    • Oh, I mean, that just like Yamcha used to be relevant and then wasn't about mid-way in Z, I'm hoping Krillin can save himself from that fate in the next Super series.

      Also, I thought that the Cell Saga (and Cell and Super Saiyan 2) were overrated myself. I mean, people always told me how good that saga was, but I was left unimpressed by it. I had more fun with the Saiyan Saga and the Buu Saga.

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    • Yamcha was relevant for about one arc, then he became the go to "ha ha this guy so weak" jokes

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    • Stryzzar wrote: Yamcha was relevant for about one arc, then he became the go to "ha ha this guy so weak" jokes

      Yamaha died because he got caught off guard from a surprise attack from a Saibaman.

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    • After thant, he was shown to have made it to King Kai's planet even faster than Goku did and in the anime was even shown to go toe-to-toe with the Ginyu Force who were even giving Vegeta a hard time. After this, he got almost destroyed by Android 20, and it seemed that he got scared off by this, because I don't recall seeing him fight ever again. Yamcha needs to get back on the stick. He could surpass a lot of characters if he tried harder...

      ...but it seems that he is forever cursed to the role of laughing stock...

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      DBS isn't THAT bad to me. I mean, GT seemed to make more sense, I must agree. The way that Super Saiyan forms seem to get more and more monkey like the way they grow, 

      ... Monkeys generate lightning and then lose their eyebrows as they grow?

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    • He means in context of returning to their roots and incorporating GA into the transformation. Kinda like a full circle kinda deal. Making sense in terms of reality isn’t exactly what he meant, after all as far as we know people don’t shoot energy blasts from their hand air fly.

      I like the Red and Blue forms because it kinda fits saiyans typical nature of ascending to where they “aren’t supposed to be.” But I could see the preference for it to be stylized more like the GA.

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    • Uh yeah, we already have GA style. It's called Green

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Uh yeah, we already have GA style. It's called Green
      • Me being confused*
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    • She's talking about LSS.

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    • GA?

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    • Great Ape

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    • oh

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    • FlatZone wrote: She's talking about LSS.

      Well, I don't like DBS and DBS Broly version of LSS, the strength is rather exaggerated and confusing.

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    • She?

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    • What do you mean ? Broly's (DBS) and Kale's strenght

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    • He/She/They/It

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    • Also, thats called power scaling. Broly DBS was made to be strong in comparison to the DBS Cast, same way Broly from DBZ was made strong in comparison to the DBZ Cast. It's just power scaling.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Uh yeah, we already have GA style. It's called Green

      Yeah, but it’s so far only used by Broly(and no sign/chance of that changing). Not to mention SS4 had a bit more of a GA style to it.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Also, thats called power scaling. Broly DBS was made to be strong in comparison to the DBS Cast, same way Broly from DBZ was made strong in comparison to the DBZ Cast. It's just power scaling.

      Well, the latter is understandable, but becoming so strong just with the power Great Ape and Wrath State makes no sense at all

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Uh yeah, we already have GA style. It's called Green

      To be honest, Broly was using a mix of Legendary Super Saiyan (Full Power Super Saiyan, or whatever you wanna call Kale's transformation) but he also added in his Wrathful State with it. We can tell this because Broly's eyes in LSSJ/FPSSJ when he was scared straight, was still yellow like when he was wrathful, when they should have been greenish-blue like when Kale gained control.

      Broly was DOUBLE crazed.

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    • Chrome0X wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: Uh yeah, we already have GA style. It's called Green

      Yeah, but it’s so far only used by Broly(and no sign/chance of that changing). Not to mention SS4 had a bit more of a GA style to it.

      We have plenty of Green super saiyans now, there's no reason to assume there won't be.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Uh yeah, we already have GA style. It's called Green
      To be honest, Broly was using a mix of Legendary Super Saiyan (Full Power Super Saiyan, or whatever you wanna call Kale's transformation) but he also added in his Wrathful State with it. We can tell this because Broly's eyes in LSSJ/FPSSJ when he was scared straight, was still yellow like when he was wrathful, when they should have been greenish-blue like when Kale gained control.

      Broly was DOUBLE crazed.

      Which is why I have serious doubts that Kale's LSSJ has Wrathful in it. Her eyes be blue, yo.

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    • At this point I’ve stopped caring about what’s “official” and what isn’t. Toriyama can and will change it anytime he chooses so I’ve moved to just watching the series more. I still have my opinion but that’s about it.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      Uh yeah, we already have GA style. It's called Green
      To be honest, Broly was using a mix of Legendary Super Saiyan (Full Power Super Saiyan, or whatever you wanna call Kale's transformation) but he also added in his Wrathful State with it. We can tell this because Broly's eyes in LSSJ/FPSSJ when he was scared straight, was still yellow like when he was wrathful, when they should have been greenish-blue like when Kale gained control.

      Broly was DOUBLE crazed.

      Which is why I have serious doubts that Kale's LSSJ has Wrathful in it. Her eyes be blue, yo.


      To that we agree. I don't believe that Kale had the Wrathful State added in. She, despite being crazed, seemed to have a little better control than Broly does. She can actually speak in the form. Broly added his Wrathful State to it and made him less of a psycho and more of just a wild beast.

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    • unpopular opinion: I want to see Wrathful Super Saiyan 4. Just give a SSj4 Yellow eyes and a green aura. It's not that hard.



      UO2: If a saiyan reached God of Destruction level, they would have purple hair and eyes (RE: Toppo)

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    • Great Ape is already a core part of SS4, and all Wrath State is is literally Great Apes power in base form

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      Great Ape is already a core part of SS4, and all Wrath State is is literally Great Apes power in base form

      I wonder if that could be the reason I wrote that in "unpopular opinions". Oh well, who could guess that?

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    • Well opinions can be redundant and incorrect, so yes that would still count as an opinion.

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    • I want to see a new SS form with a really cool arc behind it. UI is great and all but I prefer the Saiyan transformations.

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    • No, FACTS can be wrong. An Opinion doesn't neccessarily have to be wrong.

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    • There are, however, misinformed opinions. Jus’ saiyan

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    • Just saying, they could retcon it to be "wrathful taps further into the great ape power that turning back into a more humanoid shape denies the ss4 form". Nearly everything has been retconned at some point, so there’s no reason at all to think it won’t happen again.

      Also they could make SSj5 be SSj4 moving passed its limits via a Wrathful design, or even have Broly's mutation be to activate that state in a non SSj form. The possibilities are endless.

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    • @Ya Boi King Kai Facts can not be wrong, by definition man lol

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      @Ya Boi King Kai Facts can not be wrong, by definition man lol

      Facts can't be wrong, but in todays age they can be alternative. (we're f'd)

      Edit: Also, YTF does no fanartist use orange in SSj4 Cumber's color scheme? JFC do none of them watch the show or understand hints?

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Just saying, they could retcon it to be "wrathful taps further into the great ape power that turning back into a more humanoid shape denies the ss4 form". Nearly everything has been retconned at some point, so there’s no reason at all to think it won’t happen again.

      Also they could make SSj5 be SSj4 moving passed its limits via a Wrathful design, or even have Broly's mutation be to activate that state in a non SSj form. The possibilities are endless.

      Possibilities are indeed endless, hopefully a SS4 at least themed form will show up eventually here. I’m not sure if wrath state will be the way we get there but maybe. I’d love to see a for beyond SSB that looks similar to SS4, with some key differences and a color scheme change. I don’t think I want SS4 to just be copy pasted into Super though.

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    • I think Great Ape and SSGSS being combined should be the next step

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    • Super Saiyan 4 actually taps deeper than the SSJ3 X 10 multiplier most think about. It's at least 80X stronger than SSJ3, possibly even 100X if we don't dumb it down.

      And, yes. FACTS can't be wrong. But when people state something AS A FACT, it can be wrong. Oppinions aren't neccessarily wrong, just personal views.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      Super Saiyan 4 actually taps deeper than the SSJ3 X 10 multiplier most think about. It's at least 80X stronger than SSJ3, possibly even 100X if we don't dumb it down.

      And, yes. FACTS can't be wrong. But when people state something AS A FACT, it can be wrong. Oppinions aren't neccessarily wrong, just personal views.

      Abridged Krillin: Oh my god, somebody finally put it into words!

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    • if Great Ape is ever added back to the regular folks, it's going to be throw wrathful, not 4. Super likes it's mulitcolored auras a lot.

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    • I don't know if Super Saiyan 4 is going to look good with Super Saiyan Blue. You'd look like Sonic the Hedgehog. But I hope that Broly grows his Ikari form and it evenually BECOMES SSJ4. I just really want SSJ4 to be canon. I love Super Saiyan 4.

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    • SSGSS4 would not be blue, because red and red do not make blue, and red and black do not make blue. Only thing that would be blue would be the forms aura since SS4 and SS nearly have the same aura.

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    • Perhaps.

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    • Yes!!! FAnartists are so f'ing uncreative. Pick a new color

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    • The only thing in my opinion that would make Gohan's second Super Saiyan 2 awakening in the dub cooler is if they added the main theme from Transformers: The Headmasters, which Toei Animation also worked on.

      File:Transformers The Headmasters Opening (HD)
      This is just badass incarnation.
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    • TBH, I never liked headmasters...

      I think THIS song would be cool too though.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYAPgPH9hsI

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    • I think the writers or the creator hates buu/uub

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    • Nah, they just haven't introduced Uub yet. They can't do it untill Pan is, like, 3 or 4 years old. If they do it too soon, they risk retconning the entire end of z saga.

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    • They already did by making Bra younger than Pan.

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    • The end of z has been dead since the start of super

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    • Omega Shenron, Dark Shenron, and Ultimate Shenron VS Super Shenron

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    • We don't know the full extent of the Black Star Dragon Balls. They're stronger than the regular Dragon Balls. Considering that the Dragon Balls of earth spawn shadow dragons for every 7 wishes in 100 years, the Black Star Dragon Balls release all of that energy in 1 by destroying the planet. So... they must be 7 times stronger than regular Dragon Balls. We haven't seen feats big enough to know what their limits are. We've only seen two wishes granted with them. #1. To make Goku a kid again (considering how he was stronger than Buu in base and that the could deny the Dragon Balls their wish after the Namek Saga, that says a lot.) and #2. they wer used to wish Planet Vegeta back into existance. (That's not such a big feat considering what other Dragon Balls can do.) We know that the Super Dragon Balls can restore universes (if Zeno allows it), The Super Dragon Balls are probably infinite, and infinite cannot be surpassed. So it seems likely that the Super Dragon Balls are superior to the Black Star Dragon Balls, and therefore, the Dragons within are judged by the same standard.

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    • In fact, it's said that ALL dragon balls come from the Super Dragon Balls and that means that they MUST be stronger, right?

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      In fact, it's said that ALL dragon balls come from the Super Dragon Balls and that means that they MUST be stronger, right?

      I dunno, Evil Buu came from Fat Buu and he won.

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    • True. But to be honest, The Super Dragon Balls have infinite power, and nothing can exceed infinity. The best that we can hope for is a tie.

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    • Nope, Zeno is above it. There are levels to infinity in shows that throw the word around too often.

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    • ^All the SSJ4 stuff.

      My opinion is that SSJ4 has a terrible name that has nothing to do with what it is. SSJ4 is an extension of the oozaru pathway, not the Super Saiyan one. It should be called Super Saiyan Oozau or something like that.

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    • Jojo7779 wrote:
      ^All the SSJ4 stuff.

      My opinion is that SSJ4 has a terrible name that has nothing to do with what it is. SSJ4 is an extension of the oozaru pathway, not the Super Saiyan one. It should be called Super Saiyan Oozau or something like that.

      But Golden Great Ape is basically Super Saiyan stacked on top of Great Ape. So technically it counts.

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    • Yeah, but it's not like any normal extension to the Super Saiyan pathway. If it was, it would just be more yellow hair. It's more of an Oozaru thing than a Super Saiyan thing, since it leans towards the Great Ape forms.

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    • It should be Super Oozaru 2 (with the first being golden great ape)

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    • Jojo7779 wrote:
      Yeah, but it's not like any normal extension to the Super Saiyan pathway. If it was, it would just be more yellow hair. It's more of an Oozaru thing than a Super Saiyan thing, since it leans towards the Great Ape forms.

      True. The magenta fur, yellow eyes, and red eyeliner look badass though, not gonna lie.

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    • Oh yeah, that is sick. But you know what would be even more sick. Stacking Super  Saiyan forms on it, so it would have yellow fur and eyeliner, and a sick aura around the fur. That would be absolutely epic. Also, SSOSSJ3(Super Saiyan Oozaru Super Saiyan 3, IDK it's just a concept of mine).

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    • But that's just my opinion. My unpopular opinion, that is.

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    • Either the GT Perfect files or Kanzenshuu (one or the other) actually spoke on this, saying that it isn't like the other Super Saiyan forms and shouldn't be counted, but Goku (and the writers) named it Super Saiyan 4 for coveinience.

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    • That's one of my problems with it. It isn't in the same line as the golden Super Saiyan forms, yet still gets a number nomenclature. Yet the God forms that are a part of a series instead get color designation.

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    • If I were to make an "actual SSJ4" that follows the line of it, it would have the hair length of SSJ3 but it would all be sticking up in sharp spikes upwards from the head with an aura around it, kinda like SSJ2.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      That's one of my problems with it. It isn't in the same line as the golden Super Saiyan forms, yet still gets a number nomenclature. Yet the God forms that are a part of a series instead get color designation.

      And the God forms are literally just your base form and previous Super Saiyan forms but with hair color changes, and that's it. There's barely any physical changes included in the god forms.

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    • Super Saiyan god is just a base form Saiyan with god ki, and Super Saiyan Blue is just the first Super Saiyan form with god ki.

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    • There probably isn't a Golden Super Saiyan 4. 3 is as far up as it goes for a Saiyan's natural limits. They need external intervention to amp themselves up any further, either through blutz waves or divine ki.

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    • SS4 is the ultimate natural culmination of everything a Saiyan is and has all their current potential at their disposal along with the gigantic multuplier for the duration of the usage of the form. I call that the natural route, while getting God Ki is the unnatural route.

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    • Gods are foundational to the universe. They're natural. Also Vegeta achieved the form without a ritual as far as I know

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    • Vegeta achieved the form by training with Whis.

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    • Vegeta got SSGod through God Ki Training with Whis. Outside of the God Ritual(Not natural) the only way to get God Ki is to take the special training from an Angel and/or the GoD or take a position of a God such as GoD for example. It is not natural for Saiyans nor any other mortal to get God Ki at all.

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    • I agree with FlatZone. SSJ4(or SSO, as I personally like to call it) is really the most natural Saiyan transformation. It combines their Oozaru ancestry and power with their humanoid wisdom and size. It is the ultimate culmination of what a Saiyan is, and is truly the "perfect form". God Ki might be very powerful, but Saiyans aren't gods. Ultra Instinct might be the peak of all fighting arts, but that's not just what Saiyans are about. Saiyans are about pride and reaching perfection, which is what SSJ4(SSO) encapsulates. The only thing I can really see beyond SSJ4(SSO) is attaching Super Saiyan forms onto it(which are also perfectly natural as Saiyans naturally have S-Cells).

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    • Only problem with that, is that SS4 is a transformation from GGA, and GGA is GA and SS(all the power of SS meaning it includes SS3 too) together. So the user cannot go SS on top of SS4.. but they can add God Ki to the form and that just hasn't been done yet in any of the series.

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    • I personally think that there are different versions of GGA(or GO), like normal GGA is Super Saiyan with Oozaru(500X multiplier), GGA2(crackling lightning aura, SSJ2*GA, 1000X multiplier), and GGA3(this has been shown with Cumber, GGA but with visible Saiyan hair going down from the head towards the back, 4000X multiplier). I'm pretty sure SSJ4(or SSO in my opinion) only goes GGA, not GGA2 or GGA 3. It also means that SSJ4 can have Super Saiyan forms stacked on top of it. SSJ4 by itself would have a 5000X multiplier, but in conjunction with Super Saiyan 3 would have a 2,000,000Xmultiplier(SSOSSJ3)! Also adding god ki would be very much possible, leading to some more absolute monstrous forms(SSOSSGSSJ3).

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    • Nope.. in order for Goku as a GGA to even match SBV2 he would have had to be 80x stronger than he was as a SS3 and GA is only confirmed to make a user 10x stronger than their current power. GGA most definitely incorporates SS3 into it.

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    • How much stronger is Baby Vegeta than Goku? If I can just find out that number, then I'll be all set to finally calculate these numbers.

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    • SS Baby Vegeta had the edge on SS3 Goku, SS BV then goes into a tufflized SS2 form, making him 2x stronger, he then goes into a tufflized SS3 form making him 4x stronger again.. and then he gets 10x stronger than that when he goes GGA. That means as a GGA he was at MINIMUM 80x stronger than SS3 Goku.

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    • Where does it state that Baby Vegeta's GGA was 10X stronger than SSJ3? Because even GA going normal Super Saiyan is stronger than SSJ3.

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    • Because Baby Vegetas forms are all tufflized SS forms, and GA is explicitly stated to multiply the users current power 10x over.

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    • Well then Tufflized Baby Vegeta would be going GGA3. There are different versions of GGA, each corresponding to a Super Saiyan form. GGA, GGA2, and GGA3.

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    • That's headcanon without proof man. You have to prove something like that.

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    • Or Tufflized Baby Vegeta would be stacking normal Super Saiyan on top of Oozaru still making him a good portion stronger than SSJ3.

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    • This is all my opinion, take it with a grain of salt. I'm not saying it's a purely canon proof, I'm just saying that it would kinda make sense. It would make a good portion of sense and explain the vast power differences between GGAs.

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    • The power difference between Golde Great Apes will always be the same as the form only multiplies the bas form. Baby Vegeta will always be 8X stronger than Goku in any form that they share. In SSJ1, he was stronger than SSJ3 Goku. That makes Baby 8X stronger than Goku. This means that Baby would be 8X stronger than Goku in GGA, and thus Goku would need to be 8X stronger than GGA in SSJ4 to match GGA Baby. And we know that it is the power of Super Saiyan 3 in GGA form, because Baby Vegeta retained his mutated SSJ3 hair when he went GGA. So either way, whether Goku's GGA was SSJ1 or 3, Baby's was SSJ3 X SSJ3, so SSJ4 would have to at least be 8X stronger than SSJ3 GGA.

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    • Oh, that makes a good load of sense actually. Which puts SSJ4 at a cool 32,000X Base(although I would say it's more of a 40,000X Base, since X10 for Oozaru, X400 for SSJ3, and X10 for Oozaru Compression), and also disproves my OG thought about SSJ4. So SSJ4 is the true culmination of Oozaru and Super Saiyan(SSJB is still stronger though at 100,000X, but I'm not gonna bring up a dead horse). Still, my point remains about GGA1,2, and 3.

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    • Or it could be X80 for Oozaru Compression, but IDK that probably doesn't make sense.

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    • No, SS4 is the about the same as SS Potara Fusion, so 100,000x minimum before the users potential is added in.. so really GGA is 4,000x base and SS4 is 25x stronger than that before the users potential is even considered. SSGSS is equal to SS4. This has literally been talked about in the other thread, go read it.

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    • SS4 has not been compared with Potara before. Heroes doesn’t count as they completely ignore scaling.

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    • Uh yes it has. Look on Kanzenshuu, This is from before Heroes was even thought of.


      https://www.kanzenshuu.com/misc/gttvsp_animecomic_goku1.jpg https://www.kanzenshuu.com/misc/gttvsp_animecomic_goku2.jpg


      " Merging With Vegeta!
      After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4?!

      [Big blue text at bottom] Use the power of justice to eliminate evil!"



      It's from an official source. SS4 is comparable to SS Potara Fusion.

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    • Jesus Christ.. Am I going to have to re-post everything AGAIN for the 5 millionth time??

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    • Ya Boi King Kai
      Ya Boi King Kai removed this reply because:
      insulting
      23:39, June 9, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • It's not about what they do and don't know. It's that they keep saying the same stuff that is incorrect or are too lazy to go and see in the other recent threads that this has all been talked about already, it's always the same thing asked and talked about over and over and its even by the same people.

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    • Well I apologise for actually having a life offline and needing to still go to work everyday, so don't have the time to scan through every single thread reply.

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    • I won't go so far. I kinda flip-flop a bit, but I think Blue is stronger than 4, but I think 4 is stronger than god. I'll just drop my multipliers here and let you discuss.

      Kaioken = the spoke multiplier.

      Great Ape = 10X

      Super Saiyan Grade 1 = 50X

      Super Saiyan Grade 2 = 1000 - speed (based on Super Saiyan Blue Evoluton's multiplier)

      Super Saiyan Grade = 10,000 - - Speed(based on a scan from a french guide. Can't remember where I found it. I got the link from a friend.)

      Super Saiyan Grade 4 = 10,000 +speed

      Super Saiyan 2 = 20,000

      Super Saiyan 3 = 80,000

      Super Saiyan 4 = 6,400,000

      Super Saiyan god = 800,000

      Super Saiyan Blue = 40,000,000

      (The power difference between SSJ4 and SSB at full power is 6.25X, while the difference between Super Saiyan god and Super Saiyan 4 is 8X. Super Saiyan 4 rests comfortably between Super Saiyan god and Super Saiyan Blue, making the form comparable to them. This list of multipliers is based in pure powerscaling using known multipliers, as well as in series spoken comparisons and author statements.)

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    • Also, I would like to ask that users Flatzone and Stryzzar please becareful how you speak to other users and becareful not to get insulting. This is inteligent conversation which can and should be conducted by taking all opinions into account and respecting someone's differing opinion. And also Jojo7779, please also keep a level head. I don't recall seeing you post anything insulting so far, but all users pleas be mindful of what you say and how it might affect other users. Ask how you would feel if someone said these things to you before you post. If this becomes too insulting (It hasn't reached that point yet, but I like to nip it in the butt) on any side, it is my duty to lock the post. So please, from this point further, please conduct yourselves and your replys with mutual respect toward all users, even if you disagree. THANKS!

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    • I was attacked first. I can’t even defend myself?

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    • We all have lives outside of the internet, I was just doing outside work until a few mins ago. Plus we literally talked about all this already. Jojo you were even in that thread yet you act like you don't remember it.

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    • Well look I didn’t see it, okay? It wasn’t out of laziness or trying to ignore replies. I just didn’t see it. You’re going to antagonise me just over that?

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    • This was more about Jojo than you, and I'm not antagonizing over it.

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    • Well alright. I'm willing to bury the hatchet and continue civilly if you are

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    • Cool. Let's continue this civally. And remember this. My father always said this to me "If you can't win a debate without insulting another, you prove that you cannot win the dabeate." If we win, we will win nicely. At least, that's the practice I'M trying to pick up. :D

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    • They need new Dragon Ball with an all black cast

      Call it:

      Dragon Ball B: Black Lives Matter

      Joe Biden is gonna be president

      Democrats are gonna run everything

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    • Hopefully Biden does win, then he gets impeached and somebody better than him and Trump becomes President. Now no more politics talk here... that's a recipe for disaster.

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    • Black Lives matter for Dragon Ball Z

      Biden, Shumer, Pelosi

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    • Welp, it seems like I have some apologies to make on this thread.

      @FlatZone

      Yeah that was pretty stupid of me to bring up that whole thing about SSJ4 vs SSJB. I'm not that familiar with the comics and manga, I'm more of an anime/cartoon person myself, so I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject. Unless you want to continue that debate, I'm willing to drop that subject, again I apologise for bringing that up.

      @Stryzzar

      I didn't mean to get you dragged into this whole mess, I apologise for that. Also I do realise we all have personal lives, and I didn't mean for this whole mess to happen.

      @YaBoiKingKai

      I don't think that I insulted anyone on this wiki, but yeah I apologise for making this whole argument in the first place.

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    • Now with all my apologies out of the way, here are some words of wisdom: Don't use politics in a thread where it doesn't belong.

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    • Yeah, we don't need politics here... we all know Trump will win again anyway...



      LOL.

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote: Yeah, we don't need politics here... we all know Trump will win again anyway...



      LOL.

      Don’t be depressing. Now drop the politics.

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    • I don't like the fact that the world of Future Trunks had to be destroyed for story's sake to bring a Zeno to the past.

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    • Bruh, everyone hates Trunks' world being destroyed.

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    • Trunks and Mai being sent back to the past was just stupid. Trunks staying would have made for better stuff story wise

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      Trunks and Mai being sent back to the past was just stupid. Trunks staying would have made for better stuff story wise

      On the other hand, maybe we can get a Future Trunks/Future Trunks fusion now, since there's two of them.

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    •   *Dragon Ball Fusions EX Trunks Intensifies*

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    • A FANDOM user
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