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  • For the past two years people has said SSJ2 Kefla is stronger then SSJB Vegetto( Black Arc). And here's why that's false.

    At the moment of Gattai Zamasu's fusion it was stated that his power expanded to no end( it doesn't matter just wanted to state it). During his battle with Goku & Vegeta, Vegeta says" God or not, I've never seen anyone let of energy like him" this would also include Beerus since in the training arc they say Beerus unrestrained, and this is Zamasu toying with them. Then Shin goes on to state that Zamasu's standing as a god was beyond their understanding. Now taking all this we can assume Zamasu is Beerus level or at least close to it maybe even past it(Not head cannon what I gathered from the show's statments). Now in come Vegetto who we saw was equal in power to Zamasu showing that Vegetto has the same standing in power to compared to Beerus as Zamasu. And to those who say Trunks was stronger than Vegetto is not true as it was stated multiple times that Zamasu's body was falling apart.

    Now in the Tournament of Power ignoring that Goku was "rusty" compared to him in Black arc. Both Vados & Champa were both unsure if Kefla could beat a full stamina Goku. Now some say that SSJBKK was stronger than Goku cause he got some kicks in which doesn't make sense cause by that logic KKx20 Goku was stronger than Frieza in Namek saga cause he got some attacks in. But this is both Vados and Champa saying she might not be able to win. There are also people saying that Vados was saying she kept getting stronger which is also false she said" Kefla's power consists of Caulifla and Kale's power multiplied tens of times." and when fighting UI Goku she said Kefla's attacks were strong and fast but Goku's reflexes are still superior.There also the statement that in Goku final use of UI Beerus thinks that Goku has surpassed him, meaning that the first two times Goku wasn't even Beerus level, so Vegito is stronger

    Now my last arguement, after Vegetto defused neither Goku nor Vegeta were able to transform, while Caulifla was shown to transform a few minutes(their time) after defusing.

    There's probably more but I can't think of them right now.

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    • At SSGod Gogeta or Vegito would be stronger than SS2 Kefla. She was only so strong in comparison to unfused characters and Jiren would have destroyed her too. DBS Broly would beat her too.

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    • I wouldn't be too hard pressed to say that Vegeto from the Buu saga could beat Kefla. I mean, we're talking two characters in Super Saiyan 2 (or of equivalent power losing (or being matched to) a weakened Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Goku was twice as strong as them at least. Vegito was stronger than Kafla from the begining. Now he would probably just laugh and scold his two halves for draging him out to face her. Vegito could have beaten Broly too. It might have taken a Super Saiyan Blue version, but that's nothing to say that it took Gogeta the same.

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    • Vegito has the potential to beat Kefla, but as Kefla is in Semi-Beserk Super Saiyan, logically, Kefla would beat Vegito easily

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    • SilverLightning95 wrote:
      For the past two years people has said SSJ2 Kefla is stronger then SSJB Vegetto( Black Arc). And here's why that's false.

      At the moment of Gattai Zamasu's fusion it was stated that his power expanded to no end( it doesn't matter just wanted to state it). During his battle with Goku & Vegeta, Vegeta says" God or not, I've never seen anyone let of energy like him" this would also include Beerus since in the training arc they say Beerus unrestrained, and this is Zamasu toying with them. Then Shin goes on to state that Zamasu's standing as a god was beyond their understanding. Now taking all this we can assume Zamasu is Beerus level or at least close to it maybe even past it(Not head cannon what I gathered from the show's statments). Now in come Vegetto who we saw was equal in power to Zamasu showing that Vegetto has the same standing in power to compared to Beerus as Zamasu. And to those who say Trunks was stronger than Vegetto is not true as it was stated multiple times that Zamasu's body was falling apart.

      Now in the Tournament of Power ignoring that Goku was "rusty" compared to him in Black arc. Both Vados & Champa were both unsure if Kefla could beat a full stamina Goku. Now some say that SSJBKK was stronger than Goku cause he got some kicks in which doesn't make sense cause by that logic KKx20 Goku was stronger than Frieza in Namek saga cause he got some attacks in. But this is both Vados and Champa saying she might not be able to win. There are also people saying that Vados was saying she kept getting stronger which is also false she said" Kefla's power consists of Caulifla and Kale's power multiplied tens of times." and when fighting UI Goku she said Kefla's attacks were strong and fast but Goku's reflexes are still superior.There also the statement that in Goku final use of UI Beerus thinks that Goku has surpassed him, meaning that the first two times Goku wasn't even Beerus level, so Vegito is stronger

      Now my last arguement, after Vegetto defused neither Goku nor Vegeta were able to transform, while Caulifla was shown to transform a few minutes(their time) after defusing.

      There's probably more but I can't think of them right now.

      i think vegito can beat kefla without using the god form, even goku in his non full powered state can match kefla power for a time

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    • Kiryuthunder1 wrote:
      SilverLightning95 wrote:
      For the past two years people has said SSJ2 Kefla is stronger then SSJB Vegetto( Black Arc). And here's why that's false.

      At the moment of Gattai Zamasu's fusion it was stated that his power expanded to no end( it doesn't matter just wanted to state it). During his battle with Goku & Vegeta, Vegeta says" God or not, I've never seen anyone let of energy like him" this would also include Beerus since in the training arc they say Beerus unrestrained, and this is Zamasu toying with them. Then Shin goes on to state that Zamasu's standing as a god was beyond their understanding. Now taking all this we can assume Zamasu is Beerus level or at least close to it maybe even past it(Not head cannon what I gathered from the show's statments). Now in come Vegetto who we saw was equal in power to Zamasu showing that Vegetto has the same standing in power to compared to Beerus as Zamasu. And to those who say Trunks was stronger than Vegetto is not true as it was stated multiple times that Zamasu's body was falling apart.

      Now in the Tournament of Power ignoring that Goku was "rusty" compared to him in Black arc. Both Vados & Champa were both unsure if Kefla could beat a full stamina Goku. Now some say that SSJBKK was stronger than Goku cause he got some kicks in which doesn't make sense cause by that logic KKx20 Goku was stronger than Frieza in Namek saga cause he got some attacks in. But this is both Vados and Champa saying she might not be able to win. There are also people saying that Vados was saying she kept getting stronger which is also false she said" Kefla's power consists of Caulifla and Kale's power multiplied tens of times." and when fighting UI Goku she said Kefla's attacks were strong and fast but Goku's reflexes are still superior.There also the statement that in Goku final use of UI Beerus thinks that Goku has surpassed him, meaning that the first two times Goku wasn't even Beerus level, so Vegito is stronger

      Now my last arguement, after Vegetto defused neither Goku nor Vegeta were able to transform, while Caulifla was shown to transform a few minutes(their time) after defusing.

      There's probably more but I can't think of them right now.

      i think vegito can beat kefla without using the god form, even goku in his non full powered state can match kefla power for a time

      vegito with just his super saiyan form can beat super saiyan 2 kefla with little effort, too much bigger power difference between them

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    • DragonBallZ050 wrote: Vegito has the potential to beat Kefla, but as Kefla is in Semi-Beserk Super Saiyan, logically, Kefla would beat Vegito easily

      How when a mastered kale was losing to SSJ2 & SSJG Goku

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    • Berserk Super Saiyan (LSSJ) has actually been shown to be at around the same multiplier as Super Saiyan 2. Maybe 2X Super Saiyan 2. Broly in Super Saiyan fought against Base Gohan. Then Gohan went Super Saiyan 2 and Broly responded with Legendary Super Saiyan and was back on top again. If Kale is anything like Broly, then her multipier may be 200X LSSJ2 would most likely be 400X, the same as Super Saiyan 3. That would be a Super Saiyan 2 and (The equivalent of) a Super Saiyan 3 versus a Super Saiyan 2 and 3 (Super Saiyan Blue if you want to count the Fused Zamasu Vs. Vegito) Vegito. Kale doesn't have a chance and never did against Vegito.

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    • Universe 6 SS2 >>>>>> Universe 7 SS2 (Only going off the anime, since it came first.)

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    • True.

      I hope Kale and Caulifla return later in the series. Especially Kale. I want to see her use that controlled Legendary Super Saiyan to fight against Broly. Wouldn't be hilarious if she beat Broly? I know manga Kale was tough. I want to know how far confident Kale can go. If she can do as well as she could against Goku, I don't see why she couldn't be as strong as Broly. In the manga, Kale base fought against Golden Frieza as I've heard stated before. That could put her closer to Broly than we think.

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    • She did fight against Golden Frieza, and Frieza said her base form alone was stronger than Caulifla's SS form, in fact base Kale was fast and strong enough that Frieza didn't even see her for awhile, and her attacks were actually enough to hurt Frieza. So Kale from the manga completely shits on anime kale. Kale from the manga once reaching LSS also overpowered Perfected SSBlue Goku and busted right through his guard. She only started getting weaker and damaging herself because unlike Broly she doesn't seem to be able to control the powers build-up yet

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    • But now she can with that new LSSJ2 thing, and it made her EVEN stronger. I want to see that fight. The two Legendary Saiyans of Universes 6 and 7. That's movie material there!

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    • That was anime only, and in the manga it doesn't exist same way SSGSS Kaioken doesn't actually exist outside of the anime either. But yeah she is clearly the U6's current Legendary Super Saiyan so her power will only continue to grow over time for sure

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    • Wait! She remained berserk for the entirety of the manga? No LSSJ2 (the controlled thing?) Did she keep those Blank eyes? If so, you made my day. Despite the fact that that LSSJ2 makes her stronger, I disliked it compared to the berserk form. Just to be clear, she didn't do that anime thing where her pupils return and she's just basically super saiyan in green?

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    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote:
      Wait! She remained berserk for the entirety of the manga? No LSSJ2 (the controlled thing?) Did she keep those Blank eyes? If so, you made my day. Despite the fact that that LSSJ2 makes her stronger, I disliked it compared to the berserk form. Just to be clear, she didn't do that anime thing where her pupils return and she's just basically super saiyan in green?

      No, she didn't.

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    • She remained blank eyed in the manga, she turned SS and got taller and more buff like Broly DBS, then she powered up further into her Full Power SS form got even taller and even more buff and kept the blank eyes.. though unlike Broly she can't control the power buildup yet so it ended up hurting her. Also LSS2 is actually weaker than DBS Broly and DBS Manga Kale's LSS transformation as they both were able to overpower SSGSS for Broly and Perfected SSGSS for Kale.

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    • Man...

      Ultra Instinct Master Roshi, Legendary Super Saiyan Kale (without control), The manga is sounding better than the anime all the time!

      I do have one thing I don't like though. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken. I kinda need that in my life. You said that wasn't in the manga, right?

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    • It's not, Goku attempted to use the Kaioken with Perfected SSGSS but it isn't very successful. Super Saiyan Rage Trunks also doesn't exist in the manga, and neither does God of Destruction Mode Top. Instead Trunks had his Potential Unleashed with the same ritual that was used on Gohan, and he goes on to master Super Saiyan 2 to the point that it is as strong as SS3 and much stronger when enraged so Trunks has Potential Unleashed and he uses Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 with it, and Top has a state called Aura of the Gods or something instead of GoD Mode, I like SSRage Trunks and GoD Mode Top so that is two things I disliked not being in the manga

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    • But Trunks got Potential Unleashed!!!!!!

      Did he get it from Elder Kai? Or did they introduce a new way to achieve it? He can use Super Saiyan with Potential Unleashed also? That could EASILY put him on Goku and Vegeta's level.

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    • He gets it from Future Shin, where it is also revealed that the 24hr ritual is not just used to unleash the hidden potential but makes one a Supreme Kai apprentice too and they gain the healing ability that Kibito uses when they get it but when they stop being Supreme Kai apprentices they lose the healing ability(only explanation for Gohan really). Future Tunks with his Potential Unleashed and SS2 is still weaker than SSGSS Goku and SSGSS Vegeta, and also SSRose Goku Black in the manga but when he is enraged he can hold SSRose Goku Black back long enough for Goku and Vegeta to escape

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    • He got it from Future Shin? Was this before the Buu Saga of Future Trunks' world? Or is Shin still alive in Future Trunks' world in the manga? He's dead in the anime. Also, a human/saiyan can be a Supreme Kai apprentice?

      Wish Future Gohan would return and gain potential unleashed. I miss that guy. I liked him more than Trunks and I like him more than his main timeline counterpart too.

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    • Also, as a mod, I feel the need to inform you that these forums will be retired at an unspecified time this year. The main discussion page will get an update and begin to be more welcoming to forum-only users. I just thought you guys might want to know if you didn't. @Legendary Super Saiyan Fennekin has a special forum page up for this if you look for it. Please help to spread the word to get people ready.

      Sorry for the inconvenience.

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    • I saw that post from Fennekin. Also Future Shin dies in both the manga and anime, he uses the ritual on Trunks before Babidi and Dabura fight occurs. Trunks as a Potential Unleashed Super Saiyan is able to fight Dabura evenly for the most part, once Shin dies he goes Super Saiyan 2, and he easily kills Dabura and Babidi then.

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    • It seems Toyataro is a good successor for Toriyama after all. Looking forward to more of his stroies in the future. Hope they reach anime and stick closer to the manga then the anime did.

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    • is the main discussion page the discussion button next to the explore one?

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    • I generally just click the "Dragon Ball Wiki" mascot banner to go to the discussion posts. Here is a link to it if you prefer.

      https://dragonball.fandom.com/f

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      is the main discussion page the discussion button next to the explore one?

      On browser, yeah, it's the "discuss" option next to "explore". 

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    • Oh. Then the discussion page and Toyataro have something in common, they're both terrible successors to the greatness we had before.

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    • I agree, I see they were trying to go for a Reddit format but they kind of botched it, looks absolutely terrible on browser. I don't know why they just couldn't stick to the blog post format, you could reply to individual comments on there at least. I know they're working on a new skin for it right now so hopefully it'll be better by the end of the year. 

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    • Is anyone staying after they stupidly make this switch?

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    • I plan on it. The discussion posts aren' THAT bad. They are kinda like this, except they are a little more open and more people comment on your stuff. You should visit sometime to see if you like it. If you need me, just punch in @Ya Boi King Kai on a comment. You can also @Final Chidori too. We're here to help, so don't hessitate to ask.

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    • A FANDOM user
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