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  • The following information has come from my sister (someone who hates Dragon Ball):

    SS4: Saiyan goes Golden Great Ape (Super Saiyan Great Ape) but gain controll of themself

    SS C-Type: Wrath State (Great Ape Power) + Super Saiyan

    This means that SS4 & SS C-Type are equal in power.

    LSS is SS C-Type at max power.

    SS4 has a max power state.

    All in all, my sister summed it up to that SS4 isn't cannon because it is too dang strong! think about it:

    SSB Kioken Vegito couldn't fight Cumber, as in Cumber wasn't phased at all. But SS4 Vegito defeated him with ease! We all know that Cumber is stronger than Broly because he (Cumber) can take on a SSB Goku without tranforming of anything while BRoly had to go Stage 2 Wrath State.

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    • Don’t use heroes as proof

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    • Wrath State doesn't possess the potential unleashed aspect that SS4 has and if anything your comparison would have been better to compare to GGA and not SS4 because GGA is exactly what you described but not in human form. There are already a few threads here and on Kanzenshuu proving SS4 is much stronger than GGA anyway. Also heroes has some inconsistent moments so don't take EVERYTHING to heart as the whole SSB Vegito is weaker than SS4 Xeno Vegito is just an inconsistency.. in the only media where SS4(anime originated) and SSGSS are present the people who made SS4 are active in the series designs and production and they treat SS4 and SSGSS as equals. SS4 is far stronger than GGA.

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    • oh, well...okay



      but still the potential SS4 has makes it OP

      As SS4 you can absorb ANY ENERGY WAVE ATTACK, absorb it without stamina depleation and throw it back

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    • That's just an ability that SS4 gives the user. SS4 in power is compared to the power of a SS Potara Fusion, and that isn't including the potential that the user possesses, so that's the multiplier that SS4 brings alone.

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    • Golden Great Ape is canon, watch Dragon Ball Z.

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    • Wrathful Broly would add 10X to any form. SSJ becomes 500X. SSJ (which is said to have power equivalent to SSJ2) would become 1000X.

      SSJ4... Goku in SSJ3 could not beat Baby. SSJ4 could. Goku would have had to get 80X more powerful than SSJ3 to beat Baby which means that Goku's SSJ4 multiplier would be 32,000X. And that's before the Super 17 arc which follows immediately after. Goku get's 10X stronger from the Baby Saga for no reason. I personally believe that he asorbed the power like he did with Super Saiyan god, which explains why he can turn into it at any time without special outside conditions.

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    • DrWhofan7 wrote:
      Golden Great Ape is canon, watch Dragon Ball Z.

      source please

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      DrWhofan7 wrote:
      Golden Great Ape is canon, watch Dragon Ball Z.
      source please

      I think they're referring to the episode of Z where vegeta talks about the "Legendary Super Saiyan" and the flashback has a Golden great ape in it. 

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    • See, that doesn’t confirm anything. The concept didn’t exist back then.

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    • Well, Golden Great Ape and Wrathful state were a concept back then, but only in filler episodes, so they're technically non-canon... but GT is non-canon too, and Broly DBS emerged from a non-canon concept (like Kale did,) so it is still valid in a way.

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    • Emerging from non-canon doesn't make the non-canon valid, it just makes certain ideas from it valid, but the non-canon can't really be used as a source for the canon. Kale is the standard for Green coloured super saiyans becasue she's the first canon example of one... even though many things about her forms clearly dont' match any of the other green ones.

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    • More accurately, SS4 is non-canon as Akira has said GT is a side story to his. He has adamantly, throught the years, referred to it as another story and not his own. 

      That literally is why it's non-canon. None of this debate is really needed lol

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    • Very true. All I'm saying is that` if a concept appeared innon-canon material, and then gets shown in canon material, that makes the concept canon. And also shows that it was imagined before it was used in canon. GT's Golden Great Ape is not a new idea (and by extension wrathful state due to it's appearance in an earlier filler episode in Z) as it appeared before. However, it is new to canon. Ideas, even if non-canon (and not created by Toriyama) it can become canon when Toriyama decides that they were good ideas and decides to use them himself.

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    • But even if he does use the ideas, only the parts that show up in canon are canon. Any part of the idea that he didn't use is still not canon.

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    • To that I heartily agree.

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    • A FANDOM user
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