Broly in his base state was at his limit when he had an edge on SS Vegeta, SS Vegeta goes into SSGod and gains the edge back.. Broly then goes into Wrath State and again has the edge showing that Wrath State brings at least the same amount of power that going from SS to SSGod brings
It’s highly uncertain as to how much power it brings. Broly himself was growing in power throughout the battle so it’s very difficult to quantify what was Broly growing in base and what was Wrath State.
My idea is that Wrath State is much greater than just 10xBase. Even if only for the fact that it’s not spread over such a huge form.
Broly's actual power stopped growing completely when Goku was gaining the upper hand as a SSGSS and Frieza resorted to murdering Paragus to make him go Super Saiyan, but Broly's power actually slowed down a LOT before he awakened Wrath State, as he was forced to enter Wrath State to go any further against Vegeta or he would just die.
Potential Unleashed on top of Wrath State could be pretty amazing too. Hell if anybody else could get Wrath State it would be Gohan since he also had the bottomless power and limitless potential schtick. I'd bet that unlike Broly Gohan wouldn't have too hard of a time controlling it either
Wrathful State is using Oozaru power in human form...
If this get's mastered, it is either SSJ4 or a nice nod to it at least. Chances are this is a Broly only thing. It did make it a third form for him to show which mirrored the OG Broly's Super Saiyan A-Type, B-Type and C-Type.
Wrathful would be like A-Type since it has good power but is very suppressed.
SS4 and Wrath State are not the same. SS4 has a potential unleashed power-up added to it for duration of form along with the huge multiplier added, it incorporates more than just the SS form. It is basically Great Ape, SS3 and Potential Unleashed all in one. Wrath State is just Great Ape basically, and SS4 Broly was something they did before Wrath State was even a thing, not to mention the methods of achieving SS4 is different.
NervousShipper is right to a degree. Broly's LSSJ form doesn't require Wrathful State. He just adds it in to give it extra oomph. It's not required for the form, but it is added in. Also Flatzone is right in saying that it's not the same thing, though When used with Super Saiyan, it is close. SSJ4 is a thing that can only be done by someone who can still turn into a Great Ape, and therefore requires a tail to master.
Also, Wrathful should be part of LSSJ, it's also green, which is the requirement for being LSSJ her. Plus, what a strange coincidence for it to also be green, when kale and ZBroly, according to flat, didn't need Wrathful to be green.
DBS Broly doesn't require Wrathful to be LSSJ. He was Wrathful from the start. Wrathful is a secondary form. It is seperate from Super Saiyan and Legendary Super Saiyan, he is just using it WHILE in Super Saiyan and LSSJ.
No, that's not. Wrathful wasn't a thing yet. I already explained this with the S-Cells example. It is equally possible that it is not a requirement just as much as it is a requirement. We don't know for a fact either way yet.
The writers shouldn't geta free pass for not figuring things out. The fact that they all came out at different points and added things every tie should more than enough proof of them being separate yet similar forms.
It's not. At this point they have to come out and specify it, or leave it up to fans to decide which way they like it because there is no official thing saying "Wrath State is/isn't a part of said form".
now back to the Wrath State form itself, it gives the user the same power that they would get from going from SS to SSGod, and I explained how already. If we are to assume Vegeta and Goku are using just SS and not the true mastered SS that Toriyama spoke of then that means God is only 10x stronger than SS.. OR that Wrath State is much stronger than Great Ape form's 10x power boost. So that narrows that down.. but now we need to figure out which one it is
The reason why I think what Broly was doing was the same as what Kale and OG Broly did is because of this. We all Know that Wrathful Sate (Ikari) is it's own seperate form, because Broly used it before he awakened. It's alreadey stated to be Oozaru in humanoid form. When Broly used LSSJ, he added Wrathful to it. Wrathful isn't required. Broly was in Ikari when he used LSSJ, but because we know that Wrathful State is a seperate form, then we know that Broly already would have been able to use LSSJ by it's self because he added another form to it. But, I suppose if you consider adding Wrathful to Super Saiyan C-Type as a new form entirely, then you could consider Legendary Super Saiyan with Wrathful State added in as a new form. But Broly could reach LSSJ by it's self if he wanted because the two forms ae seperate and Wrathful is just added in.
Also, I have no reason to believe that Goku and Vegeta were not using the Mastered Super Saiyan form. They had already unlocked it and it is far superior to the regular Super Saiyan form. Ever since the unlocked it they've been using it, because once you unlock Mastered Super Saiyan, you can't go back. This is because it's not actually a new form. It is you physically mastering the Super Saiyan form. Once you master something as important as your Super Saiyan form, you can't un-master it. But from there, SSG would only be about 10X stronger than that. So much of what I've seen supports this. Everyone has their own opinions though.
I think when we start calling out head-canon though, we need to be careful. After all, the seiries' creators leave some things ambiguous because they assume that we get the point. So just because it's not specifically sated in the series, doesn't mean that it's not true. Head-canon is not as evil as we treate it, so long as it stays with what the series and evidence points to.
Oh. Well, that makes more sense. If that is so, then the true multiplier of Ikari is left a little open isn't it?
Base Vegeta was going up against SSJ Vegeta. Then when Vegeta shifted to Super Saiyan god form, Broly responded with Ikari. The only thing that I can think, is that Broly's power was at the level of a Super Saiyan 3 at the time, and Broly was just not warmed up yet. He hadn't been trained all that well and was just trying to catch up. I think that is why Vegeta jumped straight to Super Saiyan god. He probably thought that Super Saiyan Blue would be too much, (and they just wanted to show off the form,) and any lower form of Super Saiyan would be too little. We know that Broly has more power than he was showing, because by the end, he was only matched by Super Saiyan Blue. This is why Frieza killed Paragus, because Broly was reaching his full power and was still too weak to beat Goku and Vegeta.
Broly went into Wrath State because he was at his limit without it, with Wrath State he was able to push himself further until again he reached his limit against SSGSS Goku, until he reached his limit with SS and had to use LSS and then he reached his limit there and Gogeta had the W.
Exactly. Broly was just warming up at the begining. Then he caught on with his Ikari form fully realized. Also, I think there may be a secret factor that we've forgoten. A way to help explain how Broly went from on par a little stronger than SSG, to as strong as SSGSS. Broly was in his Ikari form when he was fighting Vegeta, but when he began to fight Goku, he went through another change. If you remember, when Goku was warming up with his jumps and stretches, Broly's body began to pop and bulge in size. I think he began to power-stress. It was shown in the manga that power stressing can make you 2X stronger (this is second hand info which might not be as reliable and may eed to be fact-checked.) If true, Broly would have gotten twice as strong as he was when he overwhelmed SSG Vegeta. This explains how he could have Hulked all over Goku like that.
Gohan also looked at the moon when he was fighting Split-Form Piccolo in one episode. I don't remember it's name and I'm having a REALLY hard time finding it on youtube. It was during his training in the Saiyan Saga when he turns into a Great Ape against Piccolo for the second time. Hopefully you can find it.
But as you can see, Gohan Enraged has a similar aura and he also loses his pupils sometimes. Watch the episode that I'm talking about and you'll see what I mean.
That could easily be a trope called "early installment weirdness". There's a reason there are so many pre-super Saiyan forms. "Ikari" didn't exist as a form back then, so it could just as easily be early potential unleashed.
perhaps, but in the episode I was talking about, Gohan's tail starts to grow back. He then looks at the moon projection that Goku's space pod made and he fights Piccolo in a frenzy. He was about to turn into a Great Ape, but his tail wasn't ready yet, so his power of Oozaru was unchained in his human form. I wish I could remember that episode's name. I hope you know which one I'm tlking about.
I know what episode you are talking about, and yes he essentially used Wrath State there, in the aspect that he was tapping into its power without the form itself. BUT that was an anime only thing and Gohan never went further into Wrath State anyway, his eye color didn't change and he didn't bulk up and grow.
Well, yeah. I guess it's non-canon. But it was there before anyone thought of it for the movie. Not to mention that Broly also came from the non-canon. So I guessed it would be okay to use some filler since the OG Broly movies were essentially filler turned into a feature film.