FANDOM

7,346 Pages

  • 7 years after defeating Cell, lets say Gohan was equal to Goku was back then and give him a power level of 1.

    Gohan- 1

    Super Saiyan Gohan- 50

    Super Saiyan 2 Gohan- 100

    Goku after training for seven years, lets say he got three times stronger in his base form that gives him a power level of 3.

    Goku- 3

    Super Saiyan Goku- 150

    Super Saiyan 2 Goku- 300

    Super Saiyan 3 Goku- 1200

    It doesn't seem right that Super Saiyan Goku is 1.5x stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan in the Buu Saga.

    My power level list is this...

    Super Saiyan- 125 x Base Form

    Super Saiyan Second Grade- 187.5 x Base Form

    Super Saiyan Third Grade- 810 x Base Form

    Mastered Super Saiyan- 500 x Base Form

    Super Saiyan 2- 2,500 x Base Form

    Super Saiyan 3- 10,000 x Base Form

    Buu Saga Power Levels

    Gohan- 1

    Super Saiyan Gohan- 500

    Super Saiyan 2 Gohan- 2,500

    Goku- 3

    Super Saiyan Goku- 1,500

    Super Saiyan 2 Goku- 7,500

    Super Saiyan 3 Goku- 30,000

    It makes sense that Gohan even after slacking on training, still as a Super Saiyan 2 would still be significantly stronger than Super Saiyan Goku.

      Loading editor
    • Look.. as much as we like to change things from fan perspective, the official multipliers for SS1, SS2 and SS3 were given after the original series was over meaning they take precendence. All we know is that SS3G is supposed to be equal in power alone to SS2 while SS2G is between SS1 and SS2. SS4G is under SS2 but above SS2G.

        Loading editor
    • FlatZone wrote:
      Look.. as much as we like to change things from fan perspective, the official multipliers for 1, 2 and 3 were given after the original series was over meaning they take precendence. All we know is that SS3G is supposed to be equal in power alone to SS2 while SS2G is between SS1 and SS2. SS4G is under SS2 but above SS2G.

      Please type in the forms using their proper nomenclature to avoid confusing other users. 

        Loading editor
    • If anyone is confused, SS2G is Super Saiyan Second Grade, SS3G is Super Saiyan Third Grade, and SS4G is Super Saiyan Fourth Grade.

        Loading editor
    • I once watched somewhere (I can't rememer) where it was said that the Super Saiyan forms grading system for Power Levels had changed.

      SSJ1 50X

      SSJ2nd grade was 100X

      SSJ3rd Grade 200X

      SSJ2 200X

      SSJ3 800X

      The god-forms have not been given official multipliers, but I would make an educated guess, based on all of my research that SSG is 8X Stronger than SSJ3, and SSGSS is 50X that. SSGSS evolved would have to at least be 20X Stronger than SSGSS, to keep up with Goku's KaiokenX20 SSGSS. Hope this helps.

        Loading editor
    • Also SSJ 4th Grade, or Mastered Super Saiyan (refered to on this wikia as Super Saiyan Full power is ALSO 100X just as Super Vegeta, or Grade 2. It's just faster and drains less ki.I think.

        Loading editor
    • I will just use my own SS multipliers here:

      SS- 50x Multiplier

      SS Grade 2- 60x Multiplier

      SS Grade 3- 90x Multiplier

      SS Grade 4- 100x Multiplier

      SS2- 200x Multiplier

      SS3- 800x Multiplier

      LSS- 10,000x Multiplier 

      It's weird to think that SS2 would only be a 2x multiplier of  normal SS since SS Full Power brings out the maxinum power of Super Saiyan. The power gap between SS2 Gohan and Cell was huge, so I think SS2 would be 2x SS Grade 4. 

      As for the god forms, they might be...

      SS God- 2,000,000x Multiplier

      SS Blue- 100,000,000x multiplier

      SS Rose- 50x Multiplier

      SS Blue Kaioken x2-20- 200,000,000 to 2,000,000,000x

      SS Blue Evolved- 2,000,000,000x

        Loading editor
    • Looks good to me. The Legendary Super Saiyan form seems a bit high to me though. From what I've seen, I would say that Super Saiyan C-Type displayed by Broly in the "Super" movie would be like this.

      Super Saiyan's X50 multiplied by Ikari's 10X To make his multiplier for Super Saiyan X500

      Full Power Super Saiyan (LSSJ) I would say would be Mastered Super Saiyan's 100X multiplied by Broly's Ikari X10 To make LSSJ 1000X base form. That may be a bit excessive though. This Wikia says that C-Type and by extension FPSSJ (LSSJ) is just a wrathful (Ikari) Super Saiyan. Considering how weak Kale is in base form added to a 1000X boost would seem about right for Berserker Kale.

      And according to the movies, Goku is skunked in SSJ3 by Beerus on King Kai's planet. However, When reaching Super Saiyag god, Goku was able to fight better. Beerus then commented on this by saying that Goku pushed him to 70%. Now I recognize that Berus is much stronger than this, but he gave us a number that we can use for SSG's power scaling. Using the established trend of multipliers multiplying themselves (SSJX1/ SSJ2 X2 of SSJ/  SSJ3 X4 of SSJ2) I deduced that SSG would be 8 times stronger than SSJ3. If SSJ3 is 4X stronger than SSJ2, this means that SSJ3's multiplier in base form would be 800X. SSG 8X SSJ3's 800 base multiplier means that SSG's multiplier of base form would be 6400X. Using this logic and reverse math, I was able to determine that Berus was only 9% serious on King Kai's planet. That seems like a good number considering how easily SSJ3 was taken care of. That puts creadance into my logic that SSG is 8X stronger than SSJ3. Super Saiyan Blue would be 50X (100X in Perfected Super Saiyan Blue) to SSG's multiplier (SSB=320000X base/ Perfected Super Saiyan blue 640000X of base) Super Saiyan Blue Evolved would have to at least be 20X stronger than Perfected Super Saiyan Blue to keep up with Kaioken X20 SSB (SSBE= 12800000X Base form) I have no way detirmining UI and MUI's multiplier, but all things considered, I would say it's about the power multiplier of SSBE with autonimus movment speed added on top.

      SSJ 50X base

      SSJ 2nd Grade 70X base (Pro: Upgraded speed/ Con: downgraded ki consumption)

      SSJ 3rd Grade 100X base (Con: ki consumption/ Con: decrease in speed)

      Mastered SSJ 100X (Pro: upgrade in speed/ Pro: Upgrade in ki consumption)

      SSJ2 200X /2X SSJ

      SSJ3 800X /4X SSJ2

      SSG 6400X /8X SSJ3

      SSGSS (SSB) 320000X / 50X SSG

      SSGSS Rose 75X SSG? (I'm not sure if this would be correct, but SSGSS Rose seems stronger than SSGSS, so I'l say this. It's base stat multiplier would be 480000X base)

      Perfected SSGSS 640000/ 100X SSG

      SSGSS EVOLVED 12800000/ 20X Perfected SSGSS

      UI 640000/ Equal to Perfected SSGSS (Pro: added autonimous movments)

      MUI 12800000/ Equal to SSGSS EVOLVED (Pro: added autonimous movements)



      How does this one seem? Does it make sense? (Please don't bash me on the Beerus 70% thing. I know he's stronger, but he gave a number for something and I'm using it ONLY to measure the power difference of SSJ3 and SSG.)

        Loading editor
    • If I were you I would disregard the power statements for the BoG Movie and BoG saga, Beerus lied through his teeth the entire way and Whis did too. SSG Goku was only made to look so good because Beerus decided to hold back astronomically and push the SSG form to its limits to test SSG Goku out some. Beerus could have one shotted SSG Goku the same way he one-shotted SS3 Goku if he wanted to and that's a fact.

        Loading editor
    • People tell me that, and I agree. I DON'T think Beerus used 70%. All I'm saying is he used that term. It's the only evidence that we have to measure by. If I were to be bold, I would use THIS measurment. I would say, That Broly in base form was eaqual to SSJ Vegeta. SSJ was said by Toriyama to have the most potential as SSJ2 and 3 are just shortcuts to SSJ1's full potential (And even if it were false, it would still be suplimented by god ki, and put on SSJ3's level at least) Broly at base form was eaqual to SSJ Vegeta. Then Vegeta went SSG and beat Broly up. Then Broly awakened his wrathful state (Which is Oozaur pushed down to human form/ Oozaru is 10X base power) And regained and equal status with Vegeta. And then grew to surpass Goku in SSG. This in my opinion means that SSG has to be anywhere between 8 to 10X stronger than the mortal Super Saiyan forms. This matches my earlier analysis and proves that it, at the very least, holds water. What do you think?

        Loading editor
    • I think at minimum SSG is 10x SS which is 500x base form, at maximum it is 10x SS3 which is 4000x base form,

        Loading editor
    • I think that sounds right. Much of the evidince that I've seen supports that idea. Of course, I have another idea too. The god ki was absorbed into Goku and Vegeta. And while the form at present remains 8 to 10X stronger than SSJ3, their other super saiyan forms have been powered up. This is evident by the use of regular Super Saiyan against Beerus to the same effect as Super Saiyan god. So this would mean that god ki is 8-10X stronger than mortal ki. So while Super Saiyan god is now 8-10X stronger than SSJ3, originally, it would have been 16-20X stronger. I could be over thinking it, but evidence is there I think. I seemed to have missed it. So the REAL multipliers would be this?

      SSJ1=50X (god ki added= 500X

      SSJ1 Mastered-100X (god ki added 1000X)

      SSJ2=200X (god ki added 2000X)

      SSJ3=800X (god ki added 8000X)

      Super Saiyan god=16,000-20,000X (16-20X before god ki absorbtion/ 8-10X AFTER god ki absorbtin?)

      How is this? Does this make sense, or did I go too far off the rails?

        Loading editor
    • I don’t think multipliers are being used anymore. Like many things it seems that it has been forgotten. But of course I’m going to add my two cents. After all why would I be commenting?

      Initial SS - 50xbase(as stated)


      SS2G - 150xbase

      The speculation of his power growing 3 times by Piccolo.


      SS3G - 500xbase

      Only in strength, decreases in speed. From material released about Trunks.


      SSFP - 500xbase

      In the manga Vegeta makes a statement that “He learned to power up without weighing himself down!” Implying the use of the strength of G3 along with speed and being able to tailor power to the opponent allowing them to take it down to negligible amounts of energy.


      SS2 - 1,000xbase(2xSSFP)


      SS3 - 4,000xbase(4xSS2)


      SS4 - 40,000xbase

      10xSS3 baby Vegeta did not drop out of his equivalent form to SS3 and Goku SS4 matched him.


      SSR - 400,000xbase

      Rough estimate of SS3 Goku being literally tapped and SSR Goku going toe to toe with Beerus. Must be an EXTREME leap in power to make this leap.


      SSB - 200,000,000

      Stated by Goku to be SSR gone Super Saiyan.

        Loading editor
    • Official material released says SSBlue and SSRose forms are the same strength, and also theres nothing stating that SSB is SSG x50, in fact in one of the official interviews I posted not too long ago Toriyama says that SSGSS is Super Saiyan + the power of Super Saiyan God and that would mean it is not SSG x50 to begin with.



      Here is the translation by the Kanzenshuu translators

      https://i.imgur.com/u5Y2XhX.jpg

        Loading editor
    • I've always believed that Super Saiyan is 50x base(during the Frieza Saga, Goku's base PL was 3 million and his SSJ PL was 15 million), and that the grade forms were a decimal times the normal SSJ. I believe it was said that Super Saiyan 2 is 2x SSJ, and that Super Saiyan 3 is 4x SSJ2. I also consider Goku for the first time in Super Saiyan God to be a universe buster,(a statement made by Old Kai and the narrator) and SSJ3 was a galaxy buster. According to NASA, there are 100 billion galaxies in a universe, so SSG = 100 bil times SSJ3. Now at first I thought Super Saiyan Blue was 50x SSG, because of the whole "SSB = SSG gone SSJ" thing, but what I got from the link FlatZone provided, is that it's somewhat an evolved version of when Goku's SSG ran out and became SSJ. That being said, I believe that Goku as a SSG-Empowered SSJ = 5x SSG (I don't believe he was much stronger, but still stronger). It's a known fact hat SSB is much stronger than SSG. I'd say SSB = 20x SSG. Of course Super Saiyan Rose is equal to Blue. From what I got from the Broly Movie is that Super Saiyan C-Type is 10x stronger than a normal SSB (making SSJ Gogeta, who equals SSJC Broly, 10x SSB Goku/Vegeta as well). So, 

      SSJ = 50x Base

      SSJ G2 = 60x Base (1.2x SSJ)

      Thought it would make the most sense because of 

      SSJ G3 = 80x Base (1.7x SSJ)

      Now, I'm not saying that SSJ G3 Trunks was anywhere near SSJ2 Gohan during the Cell arc, because Goku and Gohan's base power in the ROST increased so Base Gohan > Base Goku > Base Vegeta > Base Trunks.

      SSJ G4/MSSJ = 75x Base (1.5x SSJ)

      Between SSJ G2 and SSJ G3, like it should be.

      SSJ2 = 100x Base

      SSJ3 = 400x Base

      SSG = 40,000,000,000,000x Base

      SSB = 800,000,000,000,000x Base

      SSR = SSB

      SSJC = 8,000,000,000,000,000x Base

      While it was a nightmare to find the PL of the SSG forms and beyond due to my understanding of the multipliers, I think it makes sense.

        Loading editor
    • SS2 Gohan was above SPCell, SPCell was a Galaxy Buster. SS3 is 4 times SS2. Goku with SSGod would need to be 8 times as strong to do the damage on his own as Beerus was holding back enough to match his level when it was stated that 4 clashes like that could destablize and destroy the universe.

        Loading editor
    • As of yet we have no official multiplier for SSR or for SSB. It is currently up for interpretation until an official decision is made. I never said anything about Rosé, Rosé and Blue are literally the same form of course they have the same multiplier.

      The translation doesn’t say it is them added together. It says it is a SS with SSR incorporated into it.

        Loading editor
    • When he said SSR, he meant Super Saiyan Red, another name (offical by this wikia) for Super Saiyan god. I always thought that Super Saiyan Rose was equal to Super Saiyan Blue, but my oppinion changed when I saw how well Black (Zamasu who would be powered down from unfamiliarity to Goku's body) some how was able to not only match, but surpass Goku for a while. I believe it IS the same transformation, but one thin must not be forgotten. Zamasu's god ki. Goku and Vegeta are mortals who obtained god ki (or in Vegeta's case I guess, taught his body how to make it) while Zamasu can make it purely. This means that his god ki is more potent which is the reason why his hair was a totally different color than Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan. I suppose that Rose is the exact same form as Blue, it just has god ki in a more refined and natural form which could bolster it's power. As for Super Saiyan god being 8X SSJ3, I used an old measuring trend that was created from official material. And then with the help of logic and words said by charactrs and situations, discovered that it matched quite well. Still, I think what FlatZone had a point. X50 SSG seems like a lot for Super Saiyan Blue. I can't read the link that you put up, because I'm on my family's computer and don't want to risk going to a website I don't know. Would you mind copying it and pasting it here?

        Loading editor
    • Incorporated means added to or added into. It is not the same thing as multiplying by any means. SSGSS is the power of SSG added to the power of SS.

      in·cor·po·rate

      take in or contain (something) as part of a whole; include.

      • combine (ingredients) into one substance.

      No multiplication implied ever.

        Loading editor
    • Incorporate does not imply addition or multiplication, it means that it contains both. If it said the sum of or the product of, then those would have mathematical representations. However, assuming it is saying addition is purely opinion based.

        Loading editor
    • So what you're saying about Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan is like this...

      Say Goku for all intents and purposes has a power level of 180,000 (as he did on Namek. I know he has grown, but I only plan to use this as a measuring stick.)

      Super Saiyan would be 50X 180,000 which = 9,000,000 PL

      Super Saiyan god would be at least 8X SSJ3 which is 4X SSJ2. SSG has a 3200 multiplier. This makes Goku's PL 576,000,000

      If we were to Multiply Super Saiyan god with Super Saiyans' 50X, SSGSS would have a multiplier of 160,000X making Goku's PL 28.800,000,000. But this is WRONG according to what you've said.

      In actuality, we add Super Saiyan's 50X multiplier to base from the start, and then add the SSG multiplier to get the REAL answer.

      Goku base= 180,000 X SSGX 3200 + 50= 3250X 180,000= 576,000,000. This means that SSGSS' multiplier is 3250 (SSG 3200 + SSJ's 50X = 3250) Is this math right?

        Loading editor
    • Hey,you know what they say: "Power levels are bullshit."

        Loading editor
    • HalfShadow wrote: Hey,you know what they say: "Power levels are bullshit."

      ‘Tis true.

        Loading editor
    • "SPCell was a Galaxy Buster"

      Oh well, I thought he was a Solar System buster, y'know, because of the "I have enough chi to blow up the entire solar system!" statement made by Cell himself.

        Loading editor
    • LSOtheSSJB wrote:
      "SPCell was a Galaxy Buster"

      Oh well, I thought he was a Solar System buster, y'know, because of the "I have enough chi to blow up the entire solar system!" statement made by Cell himself.

      Not to mention, he might've been higher than SSJ2 Gohan's level. He said, "Enough playing around." when he blasted Gohan's arm.

        Loading editor
    • Gohan was injured saving Vegeta and with just half of his power left he managed to disintegrate Cell who was at full power. Gohan at full power was most definitely stronger than SPCell

        Loading editor
    • FlatZone wrote:
      Gohan was injured saving Vegeta and with just half of his power left he managed to disintegrate Cell who was at full power. Gohan at full power was most definitely stronger than SPCell

      Only because Gohan was assited by Goku and didn't have to worry about the damage done. Plus, Cell was distracted by Vegeta's blast. I guess you're forgetful.

        Loading editor
    • Goku was giving verbal encouragement(Gohan had zero physical help from him, he was literally dead and on Snake Way), he wasn't even there therefor could not help. Vegeta's blast only distacted Cell for a moment who was still firing his Kamehameha. Gohan then unleashed his power that Goku knew he was holding back and Gohan then disintegrates Cell. Only forgetful one here seems to be you.

        Loading editor
    • Without question Gohan SS2 massively outmatched any version of Cell, be it Perfect or Super Perfect. Gohan was only injured by Cell due to trying to save Vegeta, we all know that Ki blasts are very capable of harming foes far stronger than the user. Seen in the same saga with Super Vegeta vs Perfect Cell. And yet still Gohan was holding back so much power even critically injured at or under half power he was able to over power Cell in his entirety. Goku as stated by FlatZone was deader than dead, if that’s a thing, and only told Gohan to release his restraints.

        Loading editor
    • FlatZone wrote:
      Goku was giving verbal encouragement(Gohan had zero physical help from him, he was literally dead and on King Kai's planet), he wasn't even there therefor could not help. Vegeta's blast only distacted Cell for a moment who was still firing his Kamehameha. Gohan then unleashed his power that Goku knew he was holding back and Gohan then disintegrates Cell. Only forgetful one here seems to be you.

      Still, it was a small opening. You know-it-all loser.

        Loading editor
    • Rogeta please don’t start any arguments. Insults aren’t necessary here.

        Loading editor
    • ...This math proves something I've been saying for, like, a year! Using Toriyama's logic mixed with my equaions, SSGSS' power multiplier is 3250X Base... not as powerful as another form Goku obtained elsewhere...

      Super Saiyan 4 has a power level of 4000X base at it's lowest. This makes Goku SSJ4 much, MUCH STRONGER than SSGSS, that could, if high balled, be 3600X. I've argued this for a while... now Toriyama has given me the final piece of the puzzle. If GT Goku SSJ4 fought Super Goku SSGSS, GT Goku would win. Not only does he have power on him, but he's 10 years older which adds to his technique. He's Goku (Super) but with more wisdom and know-how. This also means that Super 17 was stronger than Golden Frieza, and Omega Shenron is stronger than Broly in Dragon Ball Super. I know that sounds... wrong. But It took Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta to over shadow Omega Shenron like it would have taken SSGSS Gogeta to over shadow Broly. Boom goes my brain!

        Loading editor
    • Not exactly, GT's powerscale was super inconsistent. Xeno Goku is like an alternate GT Goku and he tied with CC Gi Goku in battle in 2 out of 3 of the heroes media. I think it would be more safe to say the forms are about equal over-all.

        Loading editor
    • Not as an insult Kai, but it sounds like your twisting the logic to make SSGSS < SSJ4. Give me evidence to say SSJ4 is anywear near Universe-Buster level and I'd concede.

        Loading editor
    • Heroes is even less consistant than GT. SSJ4 is 4000X base, because it is 10X greater than SSJ3. SSGSS might, if high balling it, be 3600X

      I'll say it like this. If the same Goku had to fight himself, one with SSGSS, the other with SSJ4, SSJ4 Goku would win.

        Loading editor
    • ...Prolly...

        Loading editor
    • @LSOtheSSJB

      No insult taken. I shall explain what I mean. In Dragon Ball Z: Battle of gods, Beerus fought Super Saiyan 3 Goku. He spanked him. By the end of the movie, Berus acknowledges using 70% of his power. I use this as a ruler. It is disputed though (as Beerus clearly has more power), so I will reinforce it with another example. In Dragon Ball Super: Broly. Vegeta battles Broly (Base) in Super Saiyan. Toriyama already stated that Super Saiyan 1 when trained right can be as powerful as all the other mortal Super Saiyan forms (including SSJ3). Broly was just as powerful as SSJ Vegeta. Vegeta turned SSG and then spanked Broly. Broly awoke his Ikari form (Great ape X10) which put him back on a level playing field (if not giving him the advantage.) Usng this, I determained SSG to be at around 8X SSJ3. This makes SSG's multiplier 3200X base if we're using the recognized guide. It also keeps with the trope of each Mulitplier multipling the last multiplier (SSJ2 2X SSJ1, SSJ3 4X SSJ2, SSG 8X SSJ3, etc.)  Super Saiyan 4 would be 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan 3 since it is a great ape with the power of a Super Saiyan (SSJ3 in Goku's case) pushed down into a human form. If what Toriyama said about SSGSS being not 3200 X 50, but instead 3250X (if using SSJ3 as a base 3600X) then we can detirmine that SSJ4 is stronger with it's multiplier being 4000X as opposed to SSGSS' 3600X.

        Loading editor
    • Toriyama never said the forms have any kind of addition for the multipliers, as of now it’s only speculation in either direction. We can say that SSB is 3250xBase or it’s 150,000xBase or whatever we feel like, but unfortunately we don’t know unless Toriyama decides to enlighten us. The only thing I can say is based on statements from characters and events SSJ4 Goku couldn’t defeat SSR Goku.

      We all know how bad Beerus defeated SS3 Goku and that they said even fusion couldn’t defeat Beerus. That’s already a pretty big statement, base form Vegito far surpassed SS3 Goku. Yet this statement says fusion period which would imply SS3 Vegito or SS2 at least(unknown if Vegito can pull off SS3). Meanwhile even if we say that Vegito base form equals SS3 Goku(though he far surpasses him) SS Vegito is already at least 50x stronger than SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegito is at least 100x stronger than SS3 Goku. And yet Goku and Vegeta knew no state the fusion could take would have a prayer against the destroyer Beerus. This means that just SSR is over a whopping 100x stronger than SS3. Which is a lot more than the 10xSS3 SS4 has going for it.

        Loading editor
    • Hmm this is instresting. So what you're saying, is that SSG is at least 100x stronger than SSJ3, using Vegito as a measuring stick. That could mean, if you take in SSJ3 Vegito into account, the highest SSG could be is around 400x SSJ3.

      But, back to the subtle arguement of GT Goku vs Super Goku, while multipliers do help a lot, you have to take in account their base form strength. I'm not really Pro-GT, but the arguement I've heard people who are scaling base Kid GT Goku, is that Goku stated Rildo to be stronger than Majin Buu, and he (Goku) proceeded to manhandle Rildo in base form. That could mean that Black Dragon Ball Saga Goku would be on par with Vegito from Z. Just going to leave it there and see what you guys think of it.

        Loading editor
    • Not exactly, Goku had no idea the power that SSG had itself whether large or small and Beerus could have one shotted him just the same as SS3 if he wanted to. Also on Kanzenshuu the SS4 forms power has been discussed and it is more than 4,000x going by power scaling. Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta(Vegeta with white hair) was equal to SS3 Goku according to the Perfect Files.. BV then goes SBV/SS2 and then SBV2/SS3(tuffleized versions) making him 8 times stronger, and then after that he gets 10x stronger again going GGA. Goku as a SS4 would have had to get 80x stronger than his SS3 form to even battle GGA Baby Vegeta, not to mention how SS4 works as not only having its own multiplier but also as being a potential unleashed for the duration of the form.

        Loading editor
    • Indeed Goku’s base was established to be at least SS3 Goku Z level in GT. But even with SS4 increasing at 4,000+PU, SSR Goku S also seemed to have some sort of extra boost as he kept getting stronger during combat with Beerus. On top of this Goku S gained this power in base form while still being able to use the transformation on top of this. Meaning(if like instant transmission Vegito can use SS3) base form Goku S is over 400x stronger than SS3 Goku Z. And that’s the minimum it could be but he can still add on just SS and far outclass SS4, let alone SSR.

      We have seen that Toriyama doesn’t like to share DB, he brought Gogeta back with no regard for the animated movie before it making him far stronger. He brought Broly back with absolutely no regard for his movies or GT giving him great ape and SS power but not leading to SS4 instead a way stronger form. And when he brought Goku back he made him massively stronger than any other Goku to the point of being able to combating the massively overpowered Xeno Goku.

        Loading editor
    • No, Goku's base form was powered up sure but he regained his normal base form and normal SS forms after acquiring God-like Saiyan and SSGSS. Remember as was discussed before in other threads Goku using God-like SS was almost as strong as Goku using SSGod.. while it takes him strengthening God-like SS past the power of SSGod to acquire SSGSS and God-like Saiyan state, using SS2 or SS3 Vegito for any example here would be speculation only as we only ever see base, SS or SSGSS Vegito shown or talked about in series and by the authors.

      Same logic is used for fusion vs SS4's power for GT so Super will be no exception here. I will go by what the series has shown and what information we have been given but has not been retconned or contradicted yet. Broly's Wrath State is simply Great Apes power and abilities in human form therefor it increases his current power 10x over. SS Vegeta was losing the edge against base Broly, then he goes SSG and has the total advantage.. Broly gets 10x stronger with Wrath State and gains the advantage back. Therefor going by what we see and what we know of the forms SSG is only 10x stronger than SS which makes it 500x the users base power, the direct canon corellation cannot be ignored and Toriyama was heavily involved in the movie, so going by Toyotaro and Toriyamas given information that means SSG is 10x the power of SS and SSGSS is SS PLUS the power of SSGod, or if we go by the only other actual information given which is by Whis then the full power of SSGSS is 8-9x the power of SSGod. Guess what? 500 x 8 = 4,000. If we ignored the fact Goku needs to be at the bare minimum 80x stronger than SS3 to even fight GGA Baby then that gives SS4 the power of base x4,000 too. So far what we have is SS4 being stronger than SSGod and mostly tied with SSGSS in power.

        Loading editor
    • We could be trying to solve an impossible qustion here. I don't think Toriyama knows what he's doing numbers wise. Originally when asked what SSJ's multiplier was, Toriyama said that a 50X boost was too much and said that it should only be a 20X boost. 20X was the power of Goku's Kaioken, which then makes the Super Saiyan form useless. Then if we mean to add 20X to Goku's power level AFTER the Kaioken magnification, we would get Super Saiyan to be a whopping 400X! Far more than the 50X that he thought was too high. I think dragon ball super and it's unsure god form multiplication is their way of saying "Quit worrying about numbers! Power levels don't count anymore!"

        Loading editor
    • Toriyamas words were that for Super Saiyan(this was before SS was trained with in the Cell Saga I believe) 50x was too much and it should be 10x more than what he has achieved before and yes that also makes no sense as what he achieved before was x20 Kaioken. Also SS giving a 50x multipier was confirmed twice after that comment from him showing he changed his mind otherwise he would of changed it himself to something besides 50x in the later information and guides. We have to go by what we are officially given and then what we are shown. SSG is at least 10x SS, while SSGSS's full power is at least 8-9x SSG OR the full power of SSG + SS.

        Loading editor
    • Ya Boi King Kai wrote: We could be trying to solve an impossible qustion here. I don't think Toriyama knows what he's doing numbers wise. Originally when asked what SSJ's multiplier was, Toriyama said that a 50X boost was too much and said that it should only be a 20X boost. 20X was the power of Goku's Kaioken, which then makes the Super Saiyan form useless. Then if we mean to add 20X to Goku's power level AFTER the Kaioken magnification, we would get Super Saiyan to be a whopping 400X! Far more than the 50X that he thought was too high. I think dragon ball super and it's unsure god form multiplication is their way of saying "Quit worrying about numbers! Power levels don't count anymore!"

      Yeah, I 100% agree with you. He left multipliers and power levels behind long ago, and I think he wishes the fans would too.

        Loading editor
    • So essentially what we can say is this. SSJ is stronger than kaioken. SSJ2 is stronger than SSJ1. SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ2 and SSG is stronger than SSJ3. SSGSS is stronger than SSG. Place SSJ4 anywhere you want. It just has to be higher than SSJ3. I still think it's closer to SSG, but what do I know? It's not much more than an educated head canon. I forgot about the Vegeto thing. Too many contadictions. SOME thing has to be wrong. I don't think Toriyama cares that much though. His numers were always a bit shakey.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah that’s about all we can definitively say, in my most personal of headcanon I thought SS4 was weaker than SSR but not by a huge amount(provided similar base power) and SS4 has a potential unleashed to maybe bring it up to par. My biggest headcanon was to use SS4 and SSR together to create the ultimate transformation but Broly possibly did that in DBS so a lot of the ideas we have are up in the air until Tori or Toyotaro settle them.

        Loading editor
    • Broly does not possess God Ki at all, if he did he could then combine it with his LSS and that would be pretty damn incredible

        Loading editor
    • That's all true. DBS Broly didn't have god ki, but he could learn at some point in the future. Broly's Ikari form could be the seedling for Super Saiyan 4's canon counterpart, if not the official version of it. All I know is that SSJ4 is close. Maybe not MORE POWERFUL, but it's near it. Hopefully we'll see SSJ4 canonized at some point in the future, and then we'll know for sure. Broly will probably get it as well as Gohan. When Gohan was a kid in one of the training with piccolo filler episodes, Gohan displayed a similar feat, becoming animalistic and stronger under a full moon before his tail fully regenerated. Gohan stated before the T.O.P that he was not going to use SSJ because he wanted to find a new form of Sper Saiyan. Maybe we're getting close to seeing it. Let's hope so. I love SSJ4.

        Loading editor
    • He said he was aiming for an ultimate form that no ones ever seen. I do think Gohan should be the one to get SS4 in canon.

        Loading editor
    • Remember Broly powered up inexplicably during the fight with Gogeta? Then Gogeta responded in kind by using SSR? It’s a popular theory that Broly subconsciously uses SSR and Gogeta responds by using the same form. Not proven but it’s a theory as to why the form changed.

        Loading editor
    • Gogeta never used SSGod, he only used SS and SSGSS.

        Loading editor
    • I think he only used it agianst Broly as to say "You got green hair and a new form? Cute, lemme show ya this'n." (Boom! Blue) "You got's nothin' on me big greenie."

        Loading editor
    • He went SSR, he just did it while already SS so it turned into SSB.

      Yeah, it’s just a theory floating around.

        Loading editor
    • Chrome0X You are a funny guy. You got us there. I guess he DID go SSG. XD



      Becuase SSGSS is just SSG while in SSJ! Ha!

        Loading editor
    • Why thank you kind sir.

        Loading editor
    • All in all, SSG might have more potential than SSGSS. It might have more of a use.SSGSS is SSG with SSJ added on top. if SSG was a 3200 multiplier, then SSGSS would be a 3250 multiplier. Perhaps 3300X multiplier. However, SSGSS takes it's toll at and drains you of your power quickly. SSG doesn't do that at all. SSG was used in the manga and Tournament of Power to save on stamina. Switching back and forth To save stamina that would be used by SSGSS. SSG has little stamina drain and is almost on par with SSGSS, so why use SSGSS more than SSG? SSG is more practical.

        Loading editor
    • Because SSG power drains more than SSGSS apparently, though SSGSS has worse stamina

        Loading editor
    • I heard that SSG is easier on Ki and Stamina. All SSGSS has is power, and even that is quite low for an advantage. It just seems more practical to use SSG to me. It's a real cost and reward scenario. However the cost is high, and the reward is almost zero% If my math is correct, the Power Level advantage that SSGSS has over SSG is not more than 0.015625%. There is almost NO advantage to it.

        Loading editor
    • SSGSS once the form is mastered loses the stamina flaw, making it completely superior to SSGod.

        Loading editor
    • ...True.Perfected SSGSS would have almost NO stamina or Ki loss and would probably boost your 50X into 100X. If it's anything like Mastered Super Saiyan.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.