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  • If you look at goku and vegeta when they fought Frieza during his resurection. They were not in their normal base state. They were in God-like saiyan state. The super saiyan form of a God-like saiyan is super saiyan blue, since Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue is only a 5x difference. Which makes sense, since their is no Super Saiyan 2 God-like saiyan or Super Saiyan 3 God-like saiyan forms. If you look under goku or vegetas' battles they only  use this form against Frieza. They chose to use Super Saiyan God from then on.

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    • Whis in Manga shows that SSG and SSBlue have a 9x-10x power level difference, goku and vegeta were literally equal at the time and Super Saiyan God Goku was said to be stronger than 10% of Vegeta's Full Power of Super Saiyan Blue.

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    • Since they explained that the Full Power of Super Saiyan Blue is Perfected Super Saiyan Blue.. which in the Manga is about twice the power of normal Super Saiyan Blue(Toriyama explained it would take 2 Super Saiyan Blues power together to fight Fused Zamasu) then yeah Normal SS Blue is about 5x SSGod in power.

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    • God-like Saiyan = 1

      Super Saiyan God = 25

      Super Saiyan Blue = 125

      10% SS Blue = 12.5

      Super Saiyan God is 5 times weaker, or is equal to 20% of a normal super saiyan blue.

      Regular super saiyan boost is 125x.

      Namek Saga

      Frieza- 3,000,000 = 1% so 100% = 300,000,000

      Goku- 3,000,000 x 125 = 375,000,000

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    • Namek Saga Goku is confirmed to have gone from 3,000,000 to 150,000,000 using SS, and then the databooks confirm SS is a 50x power jump. Frieza at his full power before he started losing power was equal with SS Goku meaning frieza ended up with 150,000,000 too, but then his power drained and he was down to 120,000,000 and lost the fight. DBS Broly showed that Broly had the edge against SS Vegeta, so Vegeta went to SSGod and Broly was losing, so he Broly tapped into Wrath State which is Great Ape's power in base form making Broly about 10x Stronger and giving Broly the edge again.. what we can confirm from that is that Super Saiyan God is about 10x stronger than Super Saiyan.



      So SSG is 10x SS, and in the manga SSGSS is 5x SSG, and PSSGSS is 2x SSGSS.. while there is no PSSGSS in the anime, and that in the anime SSGSS should still be 10x SSG because no actual math was given to change that for the anime.

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    • I think a couple things may throw off Super Saiyan Red being 10x SS. For one Broly was growing in base form power as they fought and for two the multiplier on a man-sized Great Ape is more than likely much greater than 10x. Also if the Super Saiyan Red was only 10x SS it’d be just barely stronger than SS3 which wouldn’t make since as Beerus had to fight Goku in the form slightly seriously in contrast to simply tapping SS3.

      The multipliers for SSB on Super Saiyan Red seem to be on spot though. Previously it didn’t seem like that was the case, it seemed like the SS forms were reset and Super Saiyan Red was something like a new base form and Blue was the new super Saiyan. But now they’re just new forms tacked onto the previous ones in one big line up so the numbers add up.

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    • SSB is 50x SSG.

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    • I thought the same and still do but from what we’re given it seems SSB is only 5-10 times stronger using scaling from in series. In the same series he says it’s a Super Saiyan Red gone Super Saiyan but now I’m just confused. Part of me thinks it’s 50x like anything that’s gone Super Saiyan but another part thinks it may be a linear transformation line. Kinda like how SS3 is 4x as powerful as SS2 and SS2 is 2x FPSS. At this point we can believe what we want since there is no statement to officiate any claim.

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    • @Monzy There is no proof whatsoever that the same multiplier would be used going from God to Blue as from base to Super Saiyan. In fact the only thing we are given from Toriyama and Toyotaro was explained in other posts already with Blue being 10x the power of God.

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    • FlatZone wrote: @Monzy There is no proof whatsoever that the same multiplier would be used going from God to Blue as from base to Super Saiyan. In fact the only thing we are given from Toriyama and Toyotaro was explained in other posts already with Blue being 10x the power of God.

      In the manga it is 10x God. But in the anime Goku clearly explained that he stacked SS on top of God.

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    • Chrome0X wrote: I thought the same and still do but from what we’re given it seems SSB is only 5-10 times stronger using scaling from in series. In the same series he says it’s a Super Saiyan Red gone Super Saiyan but now I’m just confused. Part of me thinks it’s 50x like anything that’s gone Super Saiyan but another part thinks it may be a linear transformation line. Kinda like how SS3 is 4x as powerful as SS2 and SS2 is 2x FPSS. At this point we can believe what we want since there is no statement to officiate any claim.

      In the manga SSB is 10x God. In the anime, Goku pretty much says that he stacked SS on top of God.

      If SSB was 10x God in the anime aswell. Then it means that Goku absorbing God and going SS after is > SSB Goku. Which would be ridiculous, don't you think so?

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    • Oooh that’s an interesting thought, maybe Goku was essentially a SSB at the end of that fight with Beerus and he was spiking to the power level of SSB and that’s why he was suddenly hitting Beerus harder and faster. Very interesting thought M&M.

      I suppose that also makes sense in the manga though because you get SSB by mastering the usage of Super Saiyan Red in base form and going super Saiyan then eventually that super Saiyan morphs into SSB. Explained in the Goku Black Arc in the manga.

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    • "Then it means that Goku absorbing God and going SS after is > SSB Goku" God absorbed SS, once you master it, Fully Surpassing Super Saiyan God in power it turns into SSGSS.SSGSS is 10x stronger than SSGod, and again Monzy YOU ARE ASSUMING that the same 50x multiplier from base to SS would apply from God to SSGSS and that is wrong. Toyo and Toriyama decided that SSGSS is 10x the power of SSGod. The only time there is a 50x muliplier is coming from base form to Super Saiyan form and that is it.

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    • FlatZone wrote: "Then it means that Goku absorbing God and going SS after is > SSB Goku" God absorbed SS, once you master it, Fully Surpassing Super Saiyan God in power it turns into SSGSS.SSGSS is 10x stronger than SSGod, and again Monzy YOU ARE ASSUMING that the same 50x multiplier from base to SS would apply from God to SSGSS and that is wrong. Toyo and Toriyama decided that SSGSS is 10x the power of SSGod. The only time there is a 50x muliplier is coming from base form to Super Saiyan form and that is it.

      You do realise that Kelfa HAD to go Berserk SS against Goku when he went Blue? On top of that, Goku was injured aswell.

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    • I think something we should be clear on is there are two possibilities here and until a direct statement is made it is all speculation. With that belief in mind I think discussion will stay more pleasant.

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    • Of course she would had had to go SS to fight SSBlue Goku since he just got 10x stronger than God, she doesn't have a transformation that gives her 10x more power from base form, she only has SS which gave her 50 bare minimum and SS2 which gives 100x bare minimum. Her power was shown when she goes ahead and one shots SSBKaioken x20 Goku by kicking him meaning she was at least twice as strong as he was and was holding back up.. hell she was even hoping he would get back up and was upset when it seemed like he wasn't going to get back up, and if you take no real damage from an enemy, or you can one shot an enemy then you are at least twice as strong as them according to Daizenshuu. SS Kefla was at least twice as strong as SSBKaioken x20 Goku and her SS2 form was at least twice as strong as that. Of course the possibility exists they can up and decide against what Toyo and Toriyama have because that has happened before, they can go ahead and state that SSGSS is 50x SSGod but until they do that the only thing we have is that SSGSS is 10x SSGod.

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    • We have that it’s a Super Saiyan Red gone Super Saiyan as well from the anime. And no indicator that it is a different multiplier.

      My personal theory is that the normal levels of SSB(in the manga) are 10x Super Saiyan Red and that MSSB is 50x Super Saiyan Red. MSSB is just SSB before it takes a decline in power, effectively forcing SSB to function at full power so long as you can keep it up.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Of course she would had had to go SS to fight SSBlue Goku since he just got 10x stronger than God, she doesn't have a transformation that gives her 10x more power from base form, she only has SS which gave her 50 bare minimum and SS2 which gives 100x bare minimum. Her power was shown when she goes ahead and one shots SSBKaioken x20 Goku by kicking him meaning she was at least twice as strong as he was and was holding back up.. hell she was even hoping he would get back up and was upset when it seemed like he wasn't going to get back up, and if you take no real damage from an enemy, or you can one shot an enemy then you are at least twice as strong as them according to Daizenshuu. SS Kefla was at least twice as strong as SSBKaioken x20 Goku and her SS2 form was at least twice as strong as that. Of course the possibility exists they can up and decide against what Toyo and Toriyama have because that has happened before, they can go ahead and state that SSGSS is 50x SSGod but until they do that the only thing we have is that SSGSS is 10x SSGod.

      She didn't go SS though, she had to go berserk SS. O, and Goku was incredibly fragile, what made you think that a heavily injured Goku, who also gets a strain from Kaioken, could tank attacks? Also, he got kicked in the neck quite badly. It never was stated in the anime that Blue is only 10x God, only in the manga.

      Okay so lets use an example I used in the past Two Gokus fought

      Both had a powerlevel of a million

      Lets just say that God is 1,000x multiplier

      So one Goku went god and had a PL of 1 billion

      Other Goku went Blue and had a PL of 10 billion (since according to you, Blue would be 10,000x multiplier)

      One Goku absorbed God, having a PL of 1 billion and going SS, having a PL of 50 billion

      So he demolishes Blue Goku


      See what the problem is? Blue cannot be 10x God in the anime.

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    • God absorbed SS is not 50x SSGod, when Goku is using God absorbed SS he is using the power of SSGod itself hence them saying that he didn't lose any power when he was fighting Beerus, he dropped straight from God to SS and he remained at the same level of power, and when he finally surpasses SSGod in power while using the form along with mastering the form it becomes SSGSS and is 10x stronger

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    • Not to mention Super Saiyan God is now confirmed to not be separate from the Super Saiyan forms technically. As vs Beerus he dropped from SSGod to God absorbed SS(which later evolved into SSGSS) and while fighting Moro he droped from SSBlue to SSGod to SS3 not of his own doing but simply because he was losing energy. Toyotaro has made it clear that SSGod is a level above SS3 and not something separate, Goku Black commented on it too being a SS level under Blue.

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    • FlatZone wrote: God absorbed SS is not 50x SSGod, when Goku is using God absorbed SS he is using the power of SSGod itself hence them saying that he didn't lose any power when he was fighting Beerus, he dropped straight from God to SS and he remained at the same level of power, and when he finally surpasses SSGod in power while using the form along with mastering the form it becomes SSGSS and is 10x stronger

      No. It was his base that absorbed God, not SS. SS was never confirmed to absorb anything.

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    • " During Goku's battle with Beerus as a Super Saiyan God in the movie and anime, Goku dropped out of the form, but somehow managed to retain the strength of his Super Saiyan God form in his regular Super Saiyan and base form. Goku used the enhanced power to battle Beerus. Later, Goku trained with Whis and after gaining enough power and further mastering Super Saiyan, his Super Saiyan form evolved into the Super Saiyan Blue form. " Episodes even say he didn't lose power as he went from God to SS while fighting Beerus. He retained that level of power in his SS form and of course his base form was also enhanced by it too. But the actual full power of SSGod that he retained? that was in his SS form.

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    • FlatZone wrote: " During Goku's battle with Beerus as a Super Saiyan God in the movie and anime, Goku dropped out of the form, but somehow managed to retain the strength of his Super Saiyan God form in his regular Super Saiyan and base form. Goku used the enhanced power to battle Beerus. Later, Goku trained with Whis and after gaining enough power and further mastering Super Saiyan, his Super Saiyan form evolved into the Super Saiyan Blue form. " Episodes even say he didn't lose power as he went from God to SS while fighting Beerus. He retained that level of power in his SS form and of course his base form was also enhanced by it too. But the actual full power of SSGod that he retained? that was in his SS form.

      That was from the wiki though, give me the source where it says in the anime that Goku abosrbed God in his Super Saiyan.

      On top of that, Goku was even stronger then before after he absorbed it. So he must have absorbed it in his base.

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    • In the anime episodes for Goku vs Beerus and literally in the movie Battle of Gods, go re-watch them.

      https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/God%27s_Crimson_Radiance

      As Vegeta could not sense God Ki at the time, his assumption cannot be used. But Beerus says this about it "In the movie, it is said that the Super Saiyan (with God's Crimson Radiance) form possesses power only somewhat below Super Saiyan God. In the anime it is said by Beerus that this state possesses the strength of a Super Saiyan God" The SS form is what posseses the strength of SSGod when used with Crimson Radiance, the base form gets much stronger but not to the same strength as SSGod.

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    • Beerus literally says that Goku’s power is much greater then before. So it is not implied that SS absorbed god otherwise that statement would of never existed (since SS would only add billions of PL to God, which is much greater then that)

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    • Did you not understand the context of that sentence? earlier on Goku said something specific, and Beerus was referring to that, which was Goku saying he didn't enjoy having to use God power since he didn't get it on his own, Beerus was referring to his previous power before he even became a SSGod with the ritual.. he is not saying Goku is stronger than he was as a SSGod.

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    • Hello everyone, this seems out of blue but I wanted to ask you guys something.  I am a Pokemon fan and they introduced new series which will show all regions including Galar( Gen 8) and it will have same title as Pokemon anime from 1997. , many of us fear Ash will be out because it's something different. I dug little about this and apparently it's because it's Reiwa era aka new era in Japan because Naruhito ascended on the throne which means everything in Japan must be fresh and new. I am asking you this because: Dragon Ball is Japanese, so did this happen to Dragon Ball( I am not following DB now). Is Reiwa era affecting Dragon Ball? Did anybody say anything about Dragon Ball like beginning of DB or reboot? Will there be like reverting to original Dragon Ball?  

      Reason why I am asking you this is, it makes no sense that only Pokemon is affected to this while other anime like DB won't be. Thanks in advance?

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    • FlatZone wrote: Did you not understand the context of that sentence? earlier on Goku said something specific, and Beerus was referring to that, which was Goku saying he didn't enjoy having to use God power since he didn't get it on his own, Beerus was referring to his previous power before he even became a SSGod with the ritual.. he is not saying Goku is stronger than he was as a SSGod.

      15A0887E-EC2A-45CC-BE53-A11E7F0A22DC
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    • Yeah before as in referring to pre-SSGod form.

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    • Beerus is saying that Goku absorbed God AFTER, not before, and he also implies that Goku has reached much greater heights, so it's pretty much implying that Goku absorbed God in Base. The failed ritual just gave him an energy boost, and there is no proof that he surpassed an angry SSJ2 Vegeta.

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    • He was referring to Goku's power pre-SSGod ritual compared to his power after absorbing SSGod's power. Of course he is much stronger now, his new base power is still much above his old base form pre-god ritual. Goku absorbed the God power into his SS form which is why he was able to continue fighting Beerus just the same as before the God form expired. Another words

      God Absorbed SS = SSGod in power,

      God Absorbed base form is weaker than God Absobed SS and Super Saiyan God.

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    • FlatZone wrote: He was referring to Goku's power pre-SSGod ritual compared to his power after absorbing SSGod's power. Of course he is much stronger now, his new base power is still much above his old base form pre-god ritual. Goku absorbed the God power into his SS form which is why he was able to continue fighting Beerus just the same as before the God form expired. Another words

      God Absorbed SS = SSGod in power,

      God Absorbed base form is weaker than God Absobed SS and Super Saiyan God.

      There is no proof of that. Beerus only implies that Goku absorbed God WHEN he fought in his god form. He would of said something about the failed ritual.

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    • Where are you getting I said the ritual failed? I never said that.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Where are you getting I said the ritual failed? I never said that.

      I mean the ritual where Goku absorbed energy and didn’t gain SS God.

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    • He can access Super Saiyan God again as shown when he turns into SSGod to absorb Beerus Energy Ball, he just doesn't know how to do it on his own consciously at the time I guess..

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    • A FANDOM user
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