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  • Super 17 was literally tanking everything and got stronger everytime, he absorbed all the combined Ki blast the Z Fighters toosed at him, going as far as absorbing Super Saiyan 4 Goku's Kamehameha. What did we get afterwards? Super 17 got injured by a freaking Dragon Fist from base Goku! Going as far as getting killed by base Goku's Kamehameha! Base Goku shouldn't even be able to tickle him, let alone blow a hole into his gut or even kill him! I mean, isn't Dragon Fist and Kamehameha both ki based technique? Why wasn't Super 17 not able to absorb those techniques? 

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    • He wasn't able to defend or anything because 18 locked him into absorbing her energy blasts so it was easy for Goku to pierce him apparently.. but as Goku says Super 17 let them kill him thanks to the real 17 gaining control inside. If the real 17 had not gained control Super 17 would have killed all of them because at that point only Omega Shenron could have killed him, or SS4 Gogeta.

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      He wasn't able to defend or anything because 18 locked him into absorbing her energy blasts so it was easy for Goku to pierce him apparently.. but as Goku says Super 17 let them kill him thanks to the real 17 gaining control inside. If the real 17 had not gained control Super 17 would have killed all of them because at that point only Omega Shenron could have killed him, or SS4 Gogeta.

      That still doesn't answer the question how Goku manage to bypass his durability just in his base. Even if Super 17 wasn't able to defend himself or wanted to die, Goku regardless should be able to hurt a SSJ4 level opponent in his base form!

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    • Not true, as shown with Krillin and Vegeta in the Namek Saga and Goku in the RoF Saga when he let his guard down as a SSGSS. You let your guard down on purpose or accident and even that stupid ring laser could kill you. Real 17 made Super 17 put his guard down and continuously absorb 18's blasts, Goku capitalized with Dragon Fist which has a massive amplification ability to the power put in the attack anyway. Super 17 died because of real 17 mainly.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Not true, as shown with Krillin and Vegeta in the Namek Saga and Goku in the RoF Saga when he let his guard down as a SSGSS. You let your guard down on purpose or accident and even that stupid ring laser could kill you. Real 17 made Super 17 put his guard down and continuously absorb 18's blasts, Goku capitalized with Dragon Fist which has a massive amplification ability to the power put in the attack anyway. Super 17 died because of real 17 mainly.

      Wouldn't those be counted as an outlier just like Roshi blowing up the moon?

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    • No, Piccolo blew up the moon once too. Whis already explained that no matter how strong you are if you let your guard down you can be hurt.

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      No, Piccolo blew up the moon once too. Whis already explained that no matter how strong you are if you let your guard down you can be hurt.

      But wouldn't that completely ignore how tough your natural skin is? Goku as a kid took many attacks off guard that would have killed ordinary humans unharmed, so as an adult his skin should be a lot tougher due to having bigger muscles. Common science, what doesn't hurt a kid, shouldn't hurt their adult self.

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    • You are then implying Super 17's skin is about as weak or weaker than a bullet which is definitely not the case, GT Kid Goku is definitely far stronger than a bullet.

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