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  • I can't shake the feeling that Cell and Maijin Buu wouldn't last long against Broly.

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    • Super Saiyan Broly > Super Saiyan Bu Saga Goku and Daizenshuu confirms. M10 Gohan in base was almost fighting equally with SS Broly. Gohan goes SS2 getting 100x stronger, Broly goes LSSJ and proceeds to pwn the shit out of Gohan.. although Gohan did get in one good kick. So in reality M10 Gohans base is about equal to SS Buu Saga Goku so SS2 M10 Gohan shits on SS2 Majin Vegeta and SS2 Buu Saga Goku. LSSJ Broly was beating his ass. Also Broly is confirmed stronger than Fat Buu by the very trailer of the movie itself "Broly is the strongest enemy in the universe" or some shit like that and at the time only fat Buu was around.

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    • Broly would lose to 18

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    • 1. Power levels are bullshit

      2. Depends on the script

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    • @NervousShipper, don't make spite comments, thats insulting and if you keep up the ignorantness and insults I will report you.

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    • Quanderek is right I'd say. About power levels being silly and depending on the script.

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      @NervousShipper, don't make spite comments, thats insulting and if you keep up the ignorantness and insults I will report you.

      There's nothing insulting about losing to a woman. Anyway, ignorantness isn't a word and if you keep being spiteful towards the English language I'll report you.

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    • Ignorance* that better or you still crying over it?

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    • Oh boy............

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    • FlatZone wrote: Ignorance* that better or you still crying over it?

      Yep. I'm crying tears of joy now that I've enlightened one mind. I'm proud of you.

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    • Aww, what a good little fella :)

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    • Ok........ can we stay on topic please? As funny as those remarks are.

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    • Sure thing, man. I really do think 18 could legitimately be a good opponent for him

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    • I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.

      Only Goku and Gohan were FPSSJs. Vegeta and Future Trunks in their 2nd Grade SSJ forms.

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    • Rogeta234 wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.

      Only Goku and Gohan were FPSSJs. Vegeta and Future Trunks in their 2nd Grade SSJ forms.

      Actually Vegeta did gain that in the anime and its reasonable to conclude that Future Trunks gained it too. But regardless of whether or not you believe that my point is still made.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Sure thing, man. I really do think 18 could legitimately be a good opponent for him

      I'm sorry, but I don't see 18 being able to fight him off, even WITH her unlimited stamina (and I have no problems with her character at all, just for the record). She couldn't even handle a weak clone in the form of Bio-Broly, something even her husband Krillin was at least capable of going toe-to-toe with (to say little about Goten and Kid Trunks doing the same in SSJ forms, both of which the real Broly, BTW, would have effortlessly taken out based on Broly: Second Coming.). The genuine article would just cream her when push comes to shove.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Rogeta234 wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.
      Only Goku and Gohan were FPSSJs. Vegeta and Future Trunks in their 2nd Grade SSJ forms.
      Actually Vegeta did gain that in the anime and its reasonable to conclude that Future Trunks gained it too. But regardless of whether or not you believe that my point is still made.

      They only gained those forms after the Cell Games. You obviously didn't notice the slight swelled up muscles Vegeta and Future Trunks had in the movie.

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    • Hulk10 wrote: I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.

      Heck, forget Movie 8, even his appearance in Movie 10, and especially comparing his fighting prowess to that of his cloned counterpart in Movie 11, would have utterly creamed 18. Let's not forget that Broly in that movie managed to completely wipe the floor with SSJ Kid Trunks and Goten without even NEEDING to go Legendary Super Saiyan at all, and managed to OHKO Krillin before the latter could even move in to attack, while Bio-Broly literally needed to be in LSSJ form to fight SSJ Goten and Trunks with noticeable difficulty on his end, and to add insult to injury, Krillin was able to go toe-to-toe with him. And considering that Bio-Broly's the closest 18 ever got to fighting the Legendary Super Saiyan and how she had been beaten badly by his clone, if a weak clone could manhandle 18 like that, it's extremely unlikely 18 would even stand a chance against the genuine article should they ever fight each other.

      Rogeta234 wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Rogeta234 wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.
      Only Goku and Gohan were FPSSJs. Vegeta and Future Trunks in their 2nd Grade SSJ forms.
      Actually Vegeta did gain that in the anime and its reasonable to conclude that Future Trunks gained it too. But regardless of whether or not you believe that my point is still made.

      They only gained those forms after the Cell Games. You obviously didn't notice the slight swelled up muscles Vegeta and Future Trunks had in the movie.

      "Slight" being an understatement in the case of Future Trunks: His Jacket pretty much exploded just by him transforming, something that has not happened at any other time, not even in Bojack Unbound, where Trunks also transformed while wearing that getup.

      Still, considering how ASSJ is technically more powerful than FPSSJ in terms of power output (based on what Vegeta stated, the user is at least three times as powerful as in Super Saiyan and presumably FPSSJ, the latter of which relies on not powering up), that's not something to take lightly, and if anything makes Broly come across as even MORE impressive.

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote: I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.

      Heck, forget Movie 8, even his appearance in Movie 10, and especially comparing his fighting prowess to that of his cloned counterpart in Movie 11, would have utterly creamed 18. Let's not forget that Broly in that movie managed to completely wipe the floor with SSJ Kid Trunks and Goten without even NEEDING to go Legendary Super Saiyan at all, and managed to OHKO Krillin before the latter could even move in to attack, while Bio-Broly literally needed to be in LSSJ form to fight SSJ Goten and Trunks with noticeable difficulty on his end, and to add insult to injury, Krillin was able to go toe-to-toe with him. And considering that Bio-Broly's the closest 18 ever got to fighting the Legendary Super Saiyan and how she had been beaten badly by his clone, if a weak clone could manhandle 18 like that, it's extremely unlikely 18 would even stand a chance against the genuine article should they ever fight each other.

      Rogeta234 wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Rogeta234 wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      I figured you did. I'm not so sure about that. From his first appearance in Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan he went up against Piccolo, Gohan, Future Trunks, Vegeta and Goku and Goku, Vegeta and Gohan all seemed to have mastered the Super Saiyan form, meaning they had trained to be able to hold it with ease. I imagine Future Trunks did as well. And 18 was no match for Semi Perfect Cell, but Vegeta in the first power stressed form was more than a match for him and Full Power Super Saiyan is suggested to be even stronger, so Broly faced and defeated 4 Full Power Super Saiyans with ease until Goku got the power of the others inside him. Therefore to me 18 would be no match for Broly.
      Only Goku and Gohan were FPSSJs. Vegeta and Future Trunks in their 2nd Grade SSJ forms.
      Actually Vegeta did gain that in the anime and its reasonable to conclude that Future Trunks gained it too. But regardless of whether or not you believe that my point is still made.

      They only gained those forms after the Cell Games. You obviously didn't notice the slight swelled up muscles Vegeta and Future Trunks had in the movie.

      "Slight" being an understatement in the case of Future Trunks: His Jacket pretty much exploded just by him transforming, something that has not happened at any other time, not even in Bojack Unbound, where Trunks also transformed while wearing that getup.

      Still, considering how ASSJ is technically more powerful than FPSSJ in terms of power output (based on what Vegeta stated, the user is at least three times as powerful as in Super Saiyan and presumably FPSSJ, the latter of which relies on not powering up), that's not something to take lightly, and if anything makes Broly come across as even MORE impressive.

      Good points, however the increase in muscle was only present in some frames
      Dragon-Ball-Super-Trunks-futur-563x353

      Here is Trunks from the first Broly movie and he doesn't look any more muscular than his normal Super Saiyan form

      But yeah if ASSJ is more powerful than Super Saiyan Full Power which I'm not convinced of yet. It does make him more impressive. However lets not forget that Vegeta has gained Super Saiyan Full Power by the time of Dragon Ball Super. So either he gained it during the Cell Games Saga or later. Also lets not forget that Goku outright stated he was stronger than Vegeta in Super Saiyan Full Power form.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Broly would lose to 18

      Oh come on, Broli's not that weak

      Either way, Perfect Cell would be a match to Broli, but SP Cell would own him

      Seriously, Broli is NOT a SSJ2 tier (Gohan SSJ2 being no match for him, meant he slacked his training)

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    • Actually Toriyama has said that the movie is from a different timeline where Gohan never stopped his training.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      Actually Toei has said that the movie is from a different timeline where Gohan never stopped his training.

      1. (Fixed), seriously, Toriyama doesn't care about movies other than the one iwth the purple furball, and Freeza

      2.Oh? That explains why Vegeta is no where to be seen

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    • BH Ouji wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Broly would lose to 18

      Oh come on, Broli's not that weak

      Either way, Perfect Cell would be a match to Broli, but SP Cell would own him

      Seriously, Broli is NOT a SSJ2 tier (Gohan SSJ2 being no match for him, meant he slacked his training)

      Just as an FYI, in Movie 8, Goku, who BTW knew about Gohan's SSJ2 form since their training in the ROSAT based on that flashback in Cell's Break Down, and in the leadup to the Cell Games heavily implied that he had a plan to deal with Cell that didn't involve Goku beating him in a direct fight (since Goku outright admitted he'd lose in a fair fight with Cell), literally told Gohan to flee at one point during the fight with Broly. What's implied there is that Broly in that form was a LOT more powerful than even SSJ2 Teen Gohan, which by extension would make him more powerful than either Perfect Cell or, heck, even Super Perfect Cell at the very least. Not to mention, don't you think Goku and the others would have... you know, waited until AFTER the Cell Games to deal with Broly if Cell was more powerful than him?

      Besides, as Hulk10 pointed out, in Second Coming, Gohan didn't give up on his training. This is even mentioned in the Japanese version:

      20170819 224121

      Still, nice that you acknowledge Broly isn't weak enough to lose to 18 (for goodness sakes, his clone, who was weaker than him, gave her a hard time).

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    • How much more evidence must be given? Broly beats Fat Buu(Which means he beats SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta) and SPCell. It has been beat to death already with people proving this over and over. Go and reread some old threads.

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      How much more evidence must be given? Broly gets owned by Fat Buu(Which means SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta own him) and SPCell.

      (fixed)

      Wow so many Broli fanboys here

      What, so even Gotenks/Vegetto can't beat him?!

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    • BH Ouji wrote:
      FlatZone wrote:
      How much more evidence must be given? Broly gets owned by Fat Buu(Which means SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta own him) and SPCell.
      (fixed)

      Wow so many Broli fanboys here

      I think Movie 10 Broly would destroy Super Perfect Cell. Against SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta, and Innocent Buu, he would lose. However, he would put up a good fight. 

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    • BH Ouji wrote:

      FlatZone wrote:
      How much more evidence must be given? Broly gets owned by Fat Buu(Which means SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta own him) and SPCell.

      (fixed)

      Wow so many Broli fanboys here

      First of all, I'm not a Broly fanboy. I just am using common sense (and BTW, Broly literally blew up the galaxy in one sitting, and while handicapped at that. Super Perfect Cell's stated maximum power output is destroying a single star system at most. Logically speaking, Movie 8 Broly would be stronger than Super Perfect Cell. Not to mention, also logically speaking, if Goku literally told Gohan to flee the battlefield despite knowing about the latter's Super Saiyan 2 transformation, that should be proof enough that Broly would outright cream SSJ2 Teen Gohan if given the chance [remember, Goku's the same guy who was willing to risk Gohan being potentially killed by Cell just on the chance his transformation would be enough to defeat Cell, which actually caused Vegeta and Piccolo to scold him on that when it seemed like Gohan was to be killed. If Goku didn't even think it was worth the risk to sic Gohan on Broly, it's pretty clear that Gohan would have been weaker than Broly in that movie).

      Second of all, I'm not seeing why you're constantly insistent that Broly is weak, especially when all the evidence from various sources like the Daizenshuus and, heck, even stuff stated in the anime and films themselves about various characters, prove otherwise.

      Rogeta234 wrote:

      BH Ouji wrote:
      FlatZone wrote:
      How much more evidence must be given? Broly gets owned by Fat Buu(Which means SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta own him) and SPCell.
      (fixed)

      Wow so many Broli fanboys here

      I think Movie 10 Broly would destroy Super Perfect Cell. Against SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta, and Innocent Buu, he would lose. However, he would put up a good fight.

      Actually, SSJ2 Goku probably wouldn't stand much of a chance considering the power output for SSJ2 was supposed to be equivalent to two SSJs. Broly took out two FPSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek in one sitting, which going by stuff stated either by the characters or in the Daizenshuus, would be roughly equivalent to nine standard super saiyans give or take (FPSSJ, due to being meant to more allow long-lasting use of the form instead of actually powering up, would have the same power output as a regular Super Saiyan. ASSJ, likewise, was stated by Vegata to triple the users strength from Super Saiyan. And the Super Namek is implied to be at least as strong as if not even stronger than a Super Saiyan). Goku would need to be Super Saiyan 3 to even have a fighting chance against Broly, and even THERE, the odds are slim that Goku would actually beat him. Same goes for Majin Vegeta (heck, Gohan based on his comment in Movie 10 about having become significantly more powerful than before was most likely a lot stronger than even Majin Vegeta [who was specifically stated to be stronger than Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan in-canon], and even HE could not beat Broly in a fair fight and instead needed to outwit Broly. If Movie 10 Gohan, who based on dialogue was a LOT stronger than Cell Games Gohan due to actually maintaining his training instead of slacking off like in canon, couldn't beat Broly in a fair fight, Majin Vegeta doesn't stand a chance either.). As far as Innocent Buu, if we go by the FUNimation trailer for the movie, Broly would outright cream Innocent Buu if they ever fought.

      Heck, even Movie 8 Broly would most likely beat Super Perfect Cell, considering Broly literally blew up an entire galaxy in one sitting, and it's heavily implied that that feat was AFTER Paragus essentially handicapped him by putting that crown on him, while Super Perfect Cell specifically stated he could blow up a solar system if he so desired, and made absolutely no indication that he could go much farther than that.

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    • Broly is plain and simple the most powerful Saiyan that ever lived.

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    • Goku

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    • Rogeta234 wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      FlatZone wrote:
      How much more evidence must be given? Broly gets owned by Fat Buu(Which means SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta own him) and SPCell.
      (fixed)

      Wow so many Broli fanboys here

      I think Movie 10 Broly would destroy Super Perfect Cell. Against SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta, and Innocent Buu, he would lose. However, he would put up a good fight. 

      Kay

      "prove otherwise" - here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w4kKo_FWm0

      Also i wouldn't call Movie 10 Broli "Broli", all he can talk is "Hahahaha" and "Kakarotto", Broli died in movie 8 as seen here

      @Hulk10

      Salagir is that you?

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    • Who is Salagir?

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      Who is Salagir?

      The creator of DBM, in which Broli is a Vegetto tier

      Hmm so you aren't him huh?

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    • BH Ouji wrote:
      Rogeta234 wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
      FlatZone wrote:
      How much more evidence must be given? Broly gets owned by Fat Buu(Which means SS2 Goku and SS2 Majin Vegeta own him) and SPCell.
      (fixed)

      Wow so many Broli fanboys here

      I think Movie 10 Broly would destroy Super Perfect Cell. Against SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta, and Innocent Buu, he would lose. However, he would put up a good fight. 
      Kay

      "prove otherwise" - here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w4kKo_FWm0

      Also i wouldn't call Movie 10 Broli "Broli", all he can talk is "Hahahaha" and "Kakarotto", Broli died in movie 8 as seen here

      @Hulk10

      Salagir is that you?

      He's still the same Broly, but his sanity has greatly been dimished. Plus he did say, "Not until you lie dead at my feet."

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    • BH Ouji just hates broly is all, he's just a sad little soy boy lol

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      BH Ouji just hates broly is all, he's just a sad little soy boy lol

      Tell me about it. He blocked me on DA just for not agreeing with something he likes. 

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      BH Ouji just hates broly is all, he's just a sad little soy boy lol

      ... what's wrong with Soy?

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    • Do your research, if you're a guy its not good for you.. in many ways.

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    • BH Ouji wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      Who is Salagir?

      The creator of DBM, in which Broli is a Vegetto tier

      Hmm so you aren't him huh?

      Why would I be him?

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    • FlatZone wrote: Do your research, if you're a guy its not good for you.. in many ways.

      I get the feeling your not talking about the product you get from soy beans

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    • I get the feeling that he thinks wearing pink will make his dick fall off.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: I get the feeling that he thinks wearing pink will make his dick fall off.

      Hahahahaha good one.

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    • FlatZone wrote:
      BH Ouji just hates broly is all

      No i didn't, i like Broli, but he's overrated

      Also when i seen soyboy, i thought that was mocking me for being a soy "meat" eater

      "Why would I be him?" - Becuase you think Broli's power is maximum, when it's not

      @Rogeta234

      Must been a script error, like Vegeta reffering to Goku as "Goku" in Volume 33 to Trunks and Kurilin that Toei "fixed"

      Also that was a funimation line, in the original he said something about finishing him off

      "I get the feeling that he thinks wearing pink will make his d*ck fall off." - eh, about who was that rude comment?

      "I can't shake the feeling that Broli won't last long against Cell and Maijin Buu." - fixed

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    • Screw Broly, Kale is "where it's at". Speaking of, since someone erroneously decided to make Broly and Kale's forms the same in the articles, that means Kale God is a thing, and that we can call Broly's first green haired form "Super Saiyan Berserk(er)"

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      Broly is plain and simple the most powerful Saiyan that ever lived.


      Hahahaha.

      Nice one.

      Is that why he loses to kids?

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    • Can't take you people seriously, you're like little kids who hate the color orange soyou all just say shit about it like its facts when its not, just because you hate it lol

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Screw Broly, Kale is "where it's at". Speaking of, since someone erroneously decided to make Broly and Kale's forms the same in the articles, that means Kale God is a thing, and that we can call Broly's first green haired form "Super Saiyan Berserk(er)"

      I still think the forms are different. If one looks carefully, Kale just changes into a bulky version of herself. Broly, on the other hand, develops tears on his skin and explodes as if the form emerges from inside his body. It would explain the paler skin color. Also, Broly's hair color in the 10th movie looks more like a regular SSJ in his LSSJ whereas Kale's retains the same greenish tint even after her first transformation.

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    • BH Ouji wrote:
      FlatZone wrote:
      BH Ouji just hates broly is all
      No i didn't, i like Broli, but he's overrated

      Also when i seen soyboy, i thought that was mocking me for being a soy "meat" eater

      "Why would I be him?" - Becuase you think Broli's power is maximum, when it's not

      @Rogeta234

      Must been a script error, like Vegeta reffering to Goku as "Goku" in Volume 33 to Trunks and Kurilin that Toei "fixed"

      Also that was a funimation line, in the original he said something about finishing him off

      "I get the feeling that he thinks wearing pink will make his d*ck fall off." - eh, about who was that rude comment?

      "I can't shake the feeling that Broli won't last long against Cell and Maijin Buu." - fixed

      It still proves that Broly still says something other than "Kakarot."

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    • Rogeta234 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Screw Broly, Kale is "where it's at". Speaking of, since someone erroneously decided to make Broly and Kale's forms the same in the articles, that means Kale God is a thing, and that we can call Broly's first green haired form "Super Saiyan Berserk(er)"

      I still think the forms are different. If one looks carefully, Kale just changes into a bulky version of herself. Broly, on the other hand, develops tears on his skin and explodes as if the form emerges from inside his body. It would explain the paler skin color. Also, Broly's hair color in the 10th movie looks more like a regular SSJ in his LSSJ whereas Kale's retains the same greenish tint even after her first transformation.

      I disagree about the difference in hair color. And I'm not so sure his skin rips when he transforms.

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    • Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      Broly is plain and simple the most powerful Saiyan that ever lived.


      Hahahaha.

      Nice one.

      Is that why he loses to kids?

      He didn't lose to kids. It took the combined powers of Goku, Gohan and Goten to push him into the sun. Also the official sources say he is.

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    • These snowflakes obviously don't care about official sources, only their own opinions and speculations... so why bother with them? @Hulk10

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    • FlatZone wrote: These snowflakes obviously don't care about official sources, only their own opinions and speculations... so why bother with them? @Hulk10

      I guess. I don't know if I'd use the same wording as you though

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    • FlatZone wrote: These snowflakes

      Oh dude, way to out yourself as an ass.

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    • Everyone has strong opinions about this topic.

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    • @NervousShipper Guess I joined you, Venithil, Orion, and BH Ouji's club then huh :)

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    • FlatZone wrote: @NervousShipper Guess I joined you, Venithil, Orion, and BH Ouji's club then huh :)

      This is my first comment in this thread, meaning this is the first time you and I have ever interacted directly, so I gotta wonder why I'm being summoned.

      If it's about the kudos I gave NervousShipper, it's because I find those who use the term "snowflake" unironically are the biggest so-called "snowflakes" (case in point, you getting your panties in a twist because NervousShipper disagreed with your opinion), and all-around douchebags.

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    • Hoo boo......... Well I personally think that Legendary Super Saiyan users can have both berserk and non berserk versions of the lssj2, lssj3,lssj4, lssjgssj, lssjgssj2, lssjgssj3 and lssjgssj4.

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    • Also I think the lssjgssj should have blue hair.

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    • Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink

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    • FlatZone wrote: @NervousShipper Guess I joined you, Venithil, Orion, and BH Ouji's club then huh :)

      And we welcome you with open arms :D

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink

      But shouldn't it be a different shade than the normal lssj?

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    • Also Broly is only paler in his Legendary Super Saiyan form in Broly Second Coming.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink

      But shouldn't it be a different shade than the normal lssj?

      Doesn't have to, the aura can be the difference. Being legen- wait for it.. -dary is being green, which is not that easy.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink

      But shouldn't it be a different shade than the normal lssj?

      Doesn't have to, the aura can be the difference. Being legen- wait for it.. -dary is being green, which is not that easy.

      Well if its alternate name is Super Saiyan Green then it should be more of a green color.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      Also Broly is only paler in his Legendary Super Saiyan form in Broly Second Coming.

      No, he also looked paler in his first appearance as well.

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    • Rogeta234 wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      Also Broly is only paler in his Legendary Super Saiyan form in Broly Second Coming.

      No, he also looked paler in his first appearance as well.

      No he didn't.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink

      I was thinking more on the lines of either purple or blood red. Red, for obvious reasons. Purple because, in Japan, it is the color of death.

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    • Rogeta234 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink

      I was thinking more on the lines of either purple or blood red. Red, for obvious reasons. Purple because, in Japan, it is the color of death.

      Can't argue with your reasoning there.

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    • Rogeta234 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink

      I was thinking more on the lines of either purple or blood red. Red, for obvious reasons. Purple because, in Japan, it is the color of death.

      Well, maybe not Red, since that's already taken by Super Saiyan God. But Purple would work.

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    • Ive seen some draw Broly God with green hair and not the greenish yellow.

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Rogeta234 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Nah, he should have green hair, after all the Kai had pink
      I was thinking more on the lines of either purple or blood red. Red, for obvious reasons. Purple because, in Japan, it is the color of death.
      Well, maybe not Red, since that's already taken by Super Saiyan God. But Purple would work.

      SSJG isn't even red, it's magenta. Also, even if it was, it's a different shade.

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    • Ssjg isn't even ssjg, it's ssg

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    • Broly-3

      Broly God with green hair

      Check this out.
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    • what color would you give Broly Black's LSSG form?

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:
      Broly is plain and simple the most powerful Saiyan that ever lived.

      Hahahaha.

      Nice one.

      Is that why he loses to kids?

      He didn't lose to kids. It took the combined powers of Goku, Gohan and Goten to push him into the sun. Also the official sources say he is.

      First of all, whether Goku is even there or not is more than debatable, and was already debated to the point I'm tired of it. Long story short : If Goku wasn't there, Broly got defeated by a bunch of kids. If Goku was there, his own senses confirm Fat Janemba > Movie 10 Broly, and that in turn confirms SSJ3 Goku >>> Broly. 



      Second of all, official sources also say Burter is the fastest in the universe. Several times. We all know that this statement went out the window *during the fight with Goku*, and is proved further untrue by Freeza's forms, then a bunch of other characters, but the official sources state he is the fastest in the universe. Why? Because of time of release and information provided at the time. He was the fastest in the  'known' universe in terms of maximum traverse time, because Freeza never showed his true form and King Cold was pretty much a secret or not planned to be shown, and *one of* the fastest in terms of battle speed in the universe, as shown by Goku being able to dodge his attacks but Ginyu being able to mostly keep up with the same Goku. 



      Broly at the moment of his appearance is the most powerful Saiyan known to have ever lived, because SSG was not even a thing then, and Gohan going SSJ2 was just 'in plans' as the manga chapters for Cell Games were not even being released yet. Remember, for all we knew at the time Vegeta was the first Saiyan *ever* to develop the SSJ form past the basic and Gohan was the first to truly ascend. All of the main character Saiyans developed *immensely* in the period of time it'd take from Movie 8 to the end of Z, and completely broke the scale in Super (or GT if you want to stick to that). 




      Finally, official sources again : Not only is Broly's supposed greatest achievement of blowing a galaxy in a single attack a lie (the direct translation is 'The galaxy IS BEING DESTROYED', and Goku literally uses IT to teleport to a ravaged planet in the supposedly destroyed galaxy), it's also a logical fallacy (Saiyans can't breathe in space, and it's also official, so if Broly blew up the galaxy he was inside of, him and his father would be dead by now). His second best feat, that is beating Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks, and Gohan at once is also frankly equalled or surpassed in the Cell Saga itself, where Gohan literally one shots seven equivalents of Vegeta one after another. 




      Don't even get me started on  feats like Vegeta's kick having the same effect at Surpressed LSSJ Broly as it did on Surpressed Perfect Cell, Or Goku beating Broly in one punch once he received energy from his utterly drained friends. 

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    • Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:
      Broly is plain and simple the most powerful Saiyan that ever lived.

      Hahahaha.

      Nice one.

      Is that why he loses to kids?

      He didn't lose to kids. It took the combined powers of Goku, Gohan and Goten to push him into the sun. Also the official sources say he is.

      First of all, whether Goku is even there or not is more than debatable, and was already debated to the point I'm tired of it. Long story short : If Goku wasn't there, Broly got defeated by a bunch of kids. If Goku was there, his own senses confirm Fat Janemba > Movie 10 Broly, and that in turn confirms SSJ3 Goku >>> Broly. 



      Second of all, official sources also say Burter is the fastest in the universe. Several times. We all know that this statement went out the window *during the fight with Goku*, and is proved further untrue by Freeza's forms, then a bunch of other characters, but the official sources state he is the fastest in the universe. Why? Because of time of release and information provided at the time. He was the fastest in the  'known' universe in terms of maximum traverse time, because Freeza never showed his true form and King Cold was pretty much a secret or not planned to be shown, and *one of* the fastest in terms of battle speed in the universe, as shown by Goku being able to dodge his attacks but Ginyu being able to mostly keep up with the same Goku. 



      Broly at the moment of his appearance is the most powerful Saiyan known to have ever lived, because SSG was not even a thing then, and Gohan going SSJ2 was just 'in plans' as the manga chapters for Cell Games were not even being released yet. Remember, for all we knew at the time Vegeta was the first Saiyan *ever* to develop the SSJ form past the basic and Gohan was the first to truly ascend. All of the main character Saiyans developed *immensely* in the period of time it'd take from Movie 8 to the end of Z, and completely broke the scale in Super (or GT if you want to stick to that). 




      Finally, official sources again : Not only is Broly's supposed greatest achievement of blowing a galaxy in a single attack a lie (the direct translation is 'The galaxy IS BEING DESTROYED', and Goku literally uses IT to teleport to a ravaged planet in the supposedly destroyed galaxy), it's also a logical fallacy (Saiyans can't breathe in space, and it's also official, so if Broly blew up the galaxy he was inside of, him and his father would be dead by now). His second best feat, that is beating Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks, and Gohan at once is also frankly equalled or surpassed in the Cell Saga itself, where Gohan literally one shots seven equivalents of Vegeta one after another. 




      Don't even get me started on  feats like Vegeta's kick having the same effect at Surpressed LSSJ Broly as it did on Surpressed Perfect Cell, Or Goku beating Broly in one punch once he received energy from his utterly drained friends. 

      You do know that Broly now has a god form right? So your argument falls on its head.

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    • In Dragon Ball Heroes, a.k.a "Everyone has every form, the Game" and in a cinematic attraction. That has Goku break the fourth wall and fuse with the audience to defeat him. 

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    • Venithil wrote: In Dragon Ball Heroes, a.k.a "Everyone has every form, the Game" and in a cinematic attraction. That has Goku break the fourth wall and fuse with the audience to defeat him. 

      That still doesn't help your argument I'm afraid. Since Toei has stated that Goku couldn't ever beat Broly except through the unconventional means he always used.

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    • Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote:


      Hulk10 wrote:
      Broly is plain and simple the most powerful Saiyan that ever lived.

      Hahahaha.

      Nice one.

      Is that why he loses to kids?

      He didn't lose to kids. It took the combined powers of Goku, Gohan and Goten to push him into the sun. Also the official sources say he is.

      First of all, whether Goku is even there or not is more than debatable, and was already debated to the point I'm tired of it. Long story short : If Goku wasn't there, Broly got defeated by a bunch of kids. If Goku was there, his own senses confirm Fat Janemba > Movie 10 Broly, and that in turn confirms SSJ3 Goku >>> Broly. 



      Second of all, official sources also say Burter is the fastest in the universe. Several times. We all know that this statement went out the window *during the fight with Goku*, and is proved further untrue by Freeza's forms, then a bunch of other characters, but the official sources state he is the fastest in the universe. Why? Because of time of release and information provided at the time. He was the fastest in the  'known' universe in terms of maximum traverse time, because Freeza never showed his true form and King Cold was pretty much a secret or not planned to be shown, and *one of* the fastest in terms of battle speed in the universe, as shown by Goku being able to dodge his attacks but Ginyu being able to mostly keep up with the same Goku. 



      Broly at the moment of his appearance is the most powerful Saiyan known to have ever lived, because SSG was not even a thing then, and Gohan going SSJ2 was just 'in plans' as the manga chapters for Cell Games were not even being released yet. Remember, for all we knew at the time Vegeta was the first Saiyan *ever* to develop the SSJ form past the basic and Gohan was the first to truly ascend. All of the main character Saiyans developed *immensely* in the period of time it'd take from Movie 8 to the end of Z, and completely broke the scale in Super (or GT if you want to stick to that). 




      Finally, official sources again : Not only is Broly's supposed greatest achievement of blowing a galaxy in a single attack a lie (the direct translation is 'The galaxy IS BEING DESTROYED', and Goku literally uses IT to teleport to a ravaged planet in the supposedly destroyed galaxy), it's also a logical fallacy (Saiyans can't breathe in space, and it's also official, so if Broly blew up the galaxy he was inside of, him and his father would be dead by now). His second best feat, that is beating Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks, and Gohan at once is also frankly equalled or surpassed in the Cell Saga itself, where Gohan literally one shots seven equivalents of Vegeta one after another. 




      Don't even get me started on  feats like Vegeta's kick having the same effect at Surpressed LSSJ Broly as it did on Surpressed Perfect Cell, Or Goku beating Broly in one punch once he received energy from his utterly drained friends. 

      I tried to respond to you earlier, but somehow it didn't take, so...

      1. It's pretty clear Goku WAS there if Broly's overall reaction to his presence is of any indication (I'm pretty sure if they wanted to imply Goku wasn't present, he would have said or at least thought "what are those two Kakarots looking at?", implying he doesn't actually see Goku at all). Also, give Broly some credit, he actually did nearly win even WITH Goku's presence due to using Eraser Cannons to move the Omega Blaster back down just as they were about to deflect it (the only reason it didn't work was due to Trunks). And as far as Janemba, the guy in charge of the movies specifically stated that the only movie villain actually stronger than Broly is Beerus, so that should be a pretty big hint that Janemba is weaker than him.

      2. Burter, however, was never indicated to be faster in many later entries, while Broly HAS in fact been depicted in multiple games and Daizenshuus to be the literal strongest, pretty much the Sephiroth of Dragon Ball. And just so you're aware, Return of Cooler had Dende being present as the Guardian of the Earth, pretty much spoiling that he would replace Kami by that point (remember, the movie came out several months before the manga chapter revealed this information), and that's a pretty big spoiler in itself since that implied the Z-Fighters would be without any dragon balls. I'm pretty sure if they can do that, they most certainly can spoil SSJ2 Gohan if they wanted to (besides, the fact that Movie 10 Gohan, who BTW was specifically stated to have continued training unlike in canon, couldn't even beat Broly in a fair fight should have been a pretty big hint that Broly was STILL stronger than a SSJ2).

      3. "Destroy" doesn't always mean "turned to space dust". Let me remind you that in the Japanese version of Cooler's Revenge, Cooler after learning that Goku killed Frieza, specifically said that he'll destroy Goku like he did the planet he was on, and the planet in question, while largely a wasteland with large gust storms, was clearly not destroyed like Planet Vegeta or Planet Namek were, still clearly being in existence. It's sort of like that with And besides, you really should know better than to use the whole "Saiyans don't breathe in space" argument, because Paragus's flashback to adorning Broly with the crown alone had a pretty clear contradiction in that argument (where it shows Broly literally laughing in the vacuum in space, and Paragus pretty much yelling at Broly to stop, right up to when Broly punched his eye out). And let's not forget Bardock: The Father of Goku, where Bardock was literally seen challenging Frieza in space, even giving a long speech before attempting to kill him, with no real problem breathing there (and you can't dismiss that as non-canon stuff because that same scene was literally in the manga as well). Heck, I might as well remind you of Goku pretty much putting Monster Carrot on the moon, which would have required him to travel through space to do so. I'm not even going to talk about the various anime filler which had Vegeta and/or Nappa being in the vacuum of space and breathing in it. Also, use common sense, since you're implying that Cell could beat Broly: If Broly truly were weaker than Cell, why is it that they STILL couldn't beat Cell and still needed Gohan? Also, those Cell Jrs. were 7 portions of Cell's power, and that really doesn't amount to much considering Cell himself was inferior to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan anyway.

      Oh yeah, and according to the guy who made the movie, they only made the Miracle Punch thing because they needed to have the heroes win and pretty much wrote themselves into a corner, meaning they made Broly far stronger than he should have been.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote: In Dragon Ball Heroes, a.k.a "Everyone has every form, the Game" and in a cinematic attraction. That has Goku break the fourth wall and fuse with the audience to defeat him. 

      That still doesn't help your argument I'm afraid. Since Toei has stated that Goku couldn't ever beat Broly except through the unconventional means he always used.

      Yeah, agreed. And besides, using that argument especially the whole "losing to kids" thing, Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII is a total pansy who can't even fight simply because he lost three times to a guy who was rejected from ever entering SOLDIER, and this is despite his repeatedly being stated that, at least insofar as the compilation of Final Fantasy VII is concerned, Sephiroth is the absolute strongest out there, having no equal, let alone anyone above him.

        Loading editor
    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote: In Dragon Ball Heroes, a.k.a "Everyone has every form, the Game" and in a cinematic attraction. That has Goku break the fourth wall and fuse with the audience to defeat him.

      That still doesn't help your argument I'm afraid. Since Toei has stated that Goku couldn't ever beat Broly except through the unconventional means he always used.

      Goku defeats Broly offscreen in movie 11 and confirms Janemba > Broly in Movie 12

      Vegeta SSJ3 solos Broly SSJ3 in Raging Blast 2



      Gohan solos Broly in Supersonic Warriors 2 and can do that before going Ultimate.



      Even if we accept the fourth wall breaking Broly God, Goku and Vegeta both have since developed new forms, which can overpower Jiren who is officially the strongest enemy Goku ever faced by the admission of the same people you just called upon.

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:I tried to respond to you earlier, but somehow it didn't take, so...

      1. It's pretty clear Goku WAS there if Broly's overall reaction to his presence is of any indication (I'm pretty sure if they wanted to imply Goku wasn't present, he would have said or at least thought "what are those two Kakarots looking at?", implying he doesn't actually see Goku at all). Also, give Broly some credit, he actually did nearly win even WITH Goku's presence due to using Eraser Cannons to move the Omega Blaster back down just as they were about to deflect it (the only reason it didn't work was due to Trunks). And as far as Janemba, the guy in charge of the movies specifically stated that the only movie villain actually stronger than Broly is Beerus, so that should be a pretty big hint that Janemba is weaker than him.

      2. Burter, however, was never indicated to be faster in many later entries, while Broly HAS in fact been depicted in multiple games and Daizenshuus to be the literal strongest, pretty much the Sephiroth of Dragon Ball. And just so you're aware, Return of Cooler had Dende being present as the Guardian of the Earth, pretty much spoiling that he would replace Kami by that point (remember, the movie came out several months before the manga chapter revealed this information), and that's a pretty big spoiler in itself since that implied the Z-Fighters would be without any dragon balls. I'm pretty sure if they can do that, they most certainly can spoil SSJ2 Gohan if they wanted to (besides, the fact that Movie 10 Gohan, who BTW was specifically stated to have continued training unlike in canon, couldn't even beat Broly in a fair fight should have been a pretty big hint that Broly was STILL stronger than a SSJ2).

      3. "Destroy" doesn't always mean "turned to space dust". Let me remind you that in the Japanese version of Cooler's Revenge, Cooler after learning that Goku killed Frieza, specifically said that he'll destroy Goku like he did the planet he was on, and the planet in question, while largely a wasteland with large gust storms, was clearly not destroyed like Planet Vegeta or Planet Namek were, still clearly being in existence. It's sort of like that with And besides, you really should know better than to use the whole "Saiyans don't breathe in space" argument, because Paragus's flashback to adorning Broly with the crown alone had a pretty clear contradiction in that argument (where it shows Broly literally laughing in the vacuum in space, and Paragus pretty much yelling at Broly to stop, right up to when Broly punched his eye out). And let's not forget Bardock: The Father of Goku, where Bardock was literally seen challenging Frieza in space, even giving a long speech before attempting to kill him, with no real problem breathing there (and you can't dismiss that as non-canon stuff because that same scene was literally in the manga as well). Heck, I might as well remind you of Goku pretty much putting Monster Carrot on the moon, which would have required him to travel through space to do so. I'm not even going to talk about the various anime filler which had Vegeta and/or Nappa being in the vacuum of space and breathing in it. Also, use common sense, since you're implying that Cell could beat Broly: If Broly truly were weaker than Cell, why is it that they STILL couldn't beat Cell and still needed Gohan? Also, those Cell Jrs. were 7 portions of Cell's power, and that really doesn't amount to much considering Cell himself was inferior to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan anyway.

      Oh yeah, and according to the guy who made the movie, they only made the Miracle Punch thing because they needed to have the heroes win and pretty much wrote themselves into a corner, meaning they made Broly far stronger than he should have been.

      Yeah, something is up with the website's post display and upload today.



      1) What I'm seeing is a tired Trunks blasting ineffectively at the point where the Ki struggle takes place and Broly getting entirely blown away into the sun the moment Gohan and Goten convinced to put his all into it.



      And which 'guy in charge olf the movies', exactly? Because if it's Broly's movies, that's one writer's word versus another.



      2) Burter is called 'fastest in the universe' even in a much later databook that came out fairly recently. In fact. I'm fairly sure it came AFTER Whis claimed he is the fastest in the universe, but at the very least this retroactivity would make it so Burter's speed > Super Buu's speed.



      We've already had the discussion about Dende spoiler vs SSJ2 Gohan spoiler and I still thoroughly disagree they are at the same level. And even if we place Movie 10 Gohan as having trained, we still have no knowledge of relation of his power to Goku SSJ2, Majin Vegeta, or Goku SSJ3's power. Except the Janemba line. Which got in the movie. And the fact Goku is still standing after movie 11. And the fact a game, which you two seem to be very fond of in terms of bumping up Broly's powerlevel, let SSJ3 Vegeta solo SSJ3 Broly.



      3) Goku fights Beerus in the upper atmosphere, Bardock fights Freeza in the upper atmosphere, Paragus and Broly scene has stars in the background (heck, it might as well be the angle during a night). Official statements, which are fine and dandy as long as they say Broly is the strongest apparently, confirm, repeatedly, that Saiyans cannot breathe or survive in the outer space. Freeza and Goku both confirm it verbally.



      Regardless of whether or not Miracle Punch was as big of an asspull as Broly's movie 10 appearance, fact remains that movie 8 Broly gets one punched the moment someone approaches his powerlevel (implying a terrible ki control or technical weakness, or just plain old that his power wasn't so far outside of the team's reach as you'd like it to be), and Movie 10 Broly actually needs to put in (mild) effort to take down SSJ2 Gohan and can get blasted into outer space by Buu Saga tier characters.




      Portions of Cell's power or not, they were stated and proven to be on equal terms with Vegeta and Trunks and could overcome a tired Goku. So, Gohan blasted seven equivalents of Vegeta away. In one to two attacks each. Whether that's superior or inferior to Broly's bashing of the Z-fighters is up to debate, but at the very least it's in the very same league.

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote: In Dragon Ball Heroes, a.k.a "Everyone has every form, the Game" and in a cinematic attraction. That has Goku break the fourth wall and fuse with the audience to defeat him.

      That still doesn't help your argument I'm afraid. Since Toei has stated that Goku couldn't ever beat Broly except through the unconventional means he always used.
      Yeah, agreed. And besides, using that argument especially the whole "losing to kids" thing, Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII is a total pansy who can't even fight simply because he lost three times to a guy who was rejected from ever entering SOLDIER, and this is despite his repeatedly being stated that, at least insofar as the compilation of Final Fantasy VII is concerned, Sephiroth is the absolute strongest out there, having no equal, let alone anyone above him.

      Evidently the strongest character at the time in more than just one franchise can get beaten by weaker character(s) if they are allowed to develop more than said character could and manage to approach their level if they are arrogant enough, dumb enough, or have a tactical or technical weakness.

      Which is what in-universe happened to Broly in movie 8 as well. Like it or not.

        Loading editor
    • Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote: In Dragon Ball Heroes, a.k.a "Everyone has every form, the Game" and in a cinematic attraction. That has Goku break the fourth wall and fuse with the audience to defeat him.

      That still doesn't help your argument I'm afraid. Since Toei has stated that Goku couldn't ever beat Broly except through the unconventional means he always used.

      Goku defeats Broly offscreen in movie 11 and confirms Janemba > Broly in Movie 12

      Vegeta SSJ3 solos Broly SSJ3 in Raging Blast 2



      Gohan solos Broly in Supersonic Warriors 2 and can do that before going Ultimate.



      Even if we accept the fourth wall breaking Broly God, Goku and Vegeta both have since developed new forms, which can overpower Jiren who is officially the strongest enemy Goku ever faced by the admission of the same people you just called upon.

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:I tried to respond to you earlier, but somehow it didn't take, so...

      1. It's pretty clear Goku WAS there if Broly's overall reaction to his presence is of any indication (I'm pretty sure if they wanted to imply Goku wasn't present, he would have said or at least thought "what are those two Kakarots looking at?", implying he doesn't actually see Goku at all). Also, give Broly some credit, he actually did nearly win even WITH Goku's presence due to using Eraser Cannons to move the Omega Blaster back down just as they were about to deflect it (the only reason it didn't work was due to Trunks). And as far as Janemba, the guy in charge of the movies specifically stated that the only movie villain actually stronger than Broly is Beerus, so that should be a pretty big hint that Janemba is weaker than him.

      2. Burter, however, was never indicated to be faster in many later entries, while Broly HAS in fact been depicted in multiple games and Daizenshuus to be the literal strongest, pretty much the Sephiroth of Dragon Ball. And just so you're aware, Return of Cooler had Dende being present as the Guardian of the Earth, pretty much spoiling that he would replace Kami by that point (remember, the movie came out several months before the manga chapter revealed this information), and that's a pretty big spoiler in itself since that implied the Z-Fighters would be without any dragon balls. I'm pretty sure if they can do that, they most certainly can spoil SSJ2 Gohan if they wanted to (besides, the fact that Movie 10 Gohan, who BTW was specifically stated to have continued training unlike in canon, couldn't even beat Broly in a fair fight should have been a pretty big hint that Broly was STILL stronger than a SSJ2).

      3. "Destroy" doesn't always mean "turned to space dust". Let me remind you that in the Japanese version of Cooler's Revenge, Cooler after learning that Goku killed Frieza, specifically said that he'll destroy Goku like he did the planet he was on, and the planet in question, while largely a wasteland with large gust storms, was clearly not destroyed like Planet Vegeta or Planet Namek were, still clearly being in existence. It's sort of like that with And besides, you really should know better than to use the whole "Saiyans don't breathe in space" argument, because Paragus's flashback to adorning Broly with the crown alone had a pretty clear contradiction in that argument (where it shows Broly literally laughing in the vacuum in space, and Paragus pretty much yelling at Broly to stop, right up to when Broly punched his eye out). And let's not forget Bardock: The Father of Goku, where Bardock was literally seen challenging Frieza in space, even giving a long speech before attempting to kill him, with no real problem breathing there (and you can't dismiss that as non-canon stuff because that same scene was literally in the manga as well). Heck, I might as well remind you of Goku pretty much putting Monster Carrot on the moon, which would have required him to travel through space to do so. I'm not even going to talk about the various anime filler which had Vegeta and/or Nappa being in the vacuum of space and breathing in it. Also, use common sense, since you're implying that Cell could beat Broly: If Broly truly were weaker than Cell, why is it that they STILL couldn't beat Cell and still needed Gohan? Also, those Cell Jrs. were 7 portions of Cell's power, and that really doesn't amount to much considering Cell himself was inferior to Super Saiyan 2 Gohan anyway.

      Oh yeah, and according to the guy who made the movie, they only made the Miracle Punch thing because they needed to have the heroes win and pretty much wrote themselves into a corner, meaning they made Broly far stronger than he should have been.

      Yeah, something is up with the website's post display and upload today.



      1) What I'm seeing is a tired Trunks blasting ineffectively at the point where the Ki struggle takes place and Broly getting entirely blown away into the sun the moment Gohan and Goten convinced to put his all into it.



      And which 'guy in charge olf the movies', exactly? Because if it's Broly's movies, that's one writer's word versus another.



      2) Burter is called 'fastest in the universe' even in a much later databook that came out fairly recently. In fact. I'm fairly sure it came AFTER Whis claimed he is the fastest in the universe, but at the very least this retroactivity would make it so Burter's speed > Super Buu's speed.



      We've already had the discussion about Dende spoiler vs SSJ2 Gohan spoiler and I still thoroughly disagree they are at the same level. And even if we place Movie 10 Gohan as having trained, we still have no knowledge of relation of his power to Goku SSJ2, Majin Vegeta, or Goku SSJ3's power. Except the Janemba line. Which got in the movie. And the fact Goku is still standing after movie 11. And the fact a game, which you two seem to be very fond of in terms of bumping up Broly's powerlevel, let SSJ3 Vegeta solo SSJ3 Broly.



      3) Goku fights Beerus in the upper atmosphere, Bardock fights Freeza in the upper atmosphere, Paragus and Broly scene has stars in the background (heck, it might as well be the angle during a night). Official statements, which are fine and dandy as long as they say Broly is the strongest apparently, confirm, repeatedly, that Saiyans cannot breathe or survive in the outer space. Freeza and Goku both confirm it verbally.



      Regardless of whether or not Miracle Punch was as big of an asspull as Broly's movie 10 appearance, fact remains that movie 8 Broly gets one punched the moment someone approaches his powerlevel (implying a terrible ki control or technical weakness, or just plain old that his power wasn't so far outside of the team's reach as you'd like it to be), and Movie 10 Broly actually needs to put in (mild) effort to take down SSJ2 Gohan and can get blasted into outer space by Buu Saga tier characters.




      Portions of Cell's power or not, they were stated and proven to be on equal terms with Vegeta and Trunks and could overcome a tired Goku. So, Gohan blasted seven equivalents of Vegeta away. In one to two attacks each. Whether that's superior or inferior to Broly's bashing of the Z-fighters is up to debate, but at the very least it's in the very same league.

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote: In Dragon Ball Heroes, a.k.a "Everyone has every form, the Game" and in a cinematic attraction. That has Goku break the fourth wall and fuse with the audience to defeat him.

      That still doesn't help your argument I'm afraid. Since Toei has stated that Goku couldn't ever beat Broly except through the unconventional means he always used.
      Yeah, agreed. And besides, using that argument especially the whole "losing to kids" thing, Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII is a total pansy who can't even fight simply because he lost three times to a guy who was rejected from ever entering SOLDIER, and this is despite his repeatedly being stated that, at least insofar as the compilation of Final Fantasy VII is concerned, Sephiroth is the absolute strongest out there, having no equal, let alone anyone above him.

      Evidently the strongest character at the time in more than just one franchise can get beaten by weaker character(s) if they are allowed to develop more than said character could and manage to approach their level if they are arrogant enough, dumb enough, or have a tactical or technical weakness.

      Which is what in-universe happened to Broly in movie 8 as well. Like it or not.

      First of all, we don't even know the conclusion of that battle as it's literally not even MENTIONED at all afterwards, not even indirectly. Let's not forget that, technically, we don't even know if the movies, even as alternate universes to the main universe, are part of the same universe themselves as each other (Super Android 13, for example, is implied to be of a different universe than both the Broly and Cooler movies).

      Second of all, Gohan's trick was mostly the same as his trick in Movie 10 where he, being unable to actually BEAT Broly directly, just lured him into a lava pit. It's not the same thing as actually BEING stronger than Broly.

      Third of all, those are more variants than true new forms.

      As far as your replies to me directly,

      1. I have watched that scene closely, and can even recall it in my mind down to the finest detail. After letting loose with the Kamehameha, Goku yells at Gohan to concentrate, then encourages Goten not to let his fear of Broly get to him, and that they need to work together lest they let Broly destroy the Earth. The Omega Blaster then moves away from them by a few inches, then it cuts to Broly proceeding to laugh as he charges up and fires one of his Eraser Cannons, which then knocks the Omega Blaster down, and then causes an orange glow to intensify from the magma below (implying that Broly was coming VERY close to destroying Earth), and THEN it cuts to Trunks firing that last Ki blast that acted as the proverbial wrench to Broly.

      As far as which guy, it's Tagao Kagoma, aka the guy who ripped Battle of the Gods regarding Beerus, and Broly's original creator.

      2. Okay, I'll give you that regarding Burter and that guidebook, though I'd suggest giving an actual name to that guidebook then. Also, Dende is pretty much a bigger spoiler than SSJ2 Gohan precisely because, at the time the movie was released, we had no idea whether they could even bring the Dragon Balls back, let alone use them (I think the movie was released, if not around the time 18 and 17 were activated, then certainly after Piccolo and Kami fused, and that as you know destroyed any chance at the Dragon Balls being used again). If anything, it was predictable that Gohan would have beaten Cell since they gave an overfocus on Gohan's growing abilities during the 10 day wait, even showing a flashback to his earliest display where he plowed a hole through a tree, not to mention how Goku made clear there was a plan to defeat Cell (and we know Goku couldn't have been the one to beat Cell because, as he himself admitted, Cell would "lick him" if they ever fought). And as far as Movie 10 Gohan is concerned, he's probably at least as strong as Majin Vegeta if not stronger, because Majin Vegeta specifically stated that he was stronger than a slacked off Gohan in canon. And as far as Janemba, like I said, we don't even know if the movies take place in the exact same alternate universe as each other. The only thing we DEFINITELY know is that, barring Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, and possibly the new movie coming out in December (I'm not counting the one with Avo and Kado since that's more of a special than a true movie), the movies take place in an alternate universe from the main timeline. Even there, there's been some evidence of the individual movies actually being separate alternate universes (case in point, how Movie 7 is considered just a separate universe from, say, Movie 8 and 10-11, Movie 5-6, or Movie 9 even). For all we know, Broly might not even EXIST in Movie 12 since he doesn't even appear among the escapees from Hell (which would probably explain why Paragus didn't seem to have a problem working with Frieza in that movie despite... you know, pretty much being one of the few survivors of Frieza's genocidal attempt on the Saiyan race).

      3. I didn't even mention Goku vs. Beerus, actually. As far as Bardock and Frieza, that wasn't the upper atmosphere. If anything, that was WELL beyond the upper atmosphere. And as far as Paragus and Broly, you're kidding, right? Of course you can see stars in the background of space, where do you think stars are at?! And BTW, the flashbacks that I alluded to had clear space debris in the background, which makes very clear this was not anywhere NEAR the atmosphere of a planet. In fact, the only time there was even an atmosphere at all that we can actually reasonably guess was the specific point where Paragus put the crown on Broly, and even THERE, we don't even know if that's the place since we don't even know if that's New Planet Vegeta they were on or some other planet.

      And I agree overall with what you explained in that last point overall, what I disagree with you on is your insistence on claiming that Broly is weak and should be listed as such. For goodness sakes, he's not like, say, 20 year old Homer fighting against Bart Simpson.

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    • I never said Broly was the strongest villain, only that he is the strongest Saiyan that's all. Broly is not weak. Its true that weaker characters can defeat a more powerful one if they team up, but that doesn't make the strong character weak.

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    • Hulk10 wrote: I never said Broly was the strongest villain, only that he is the strongest Saiyan that's all. Broly is not weak. Its true that weaker characters can defeat a more powerful one if they team up, but that doesn't make the strong character weak.

      Yeah, agreed. Though that being said, Takao Kagoma did indicate that the other movie villains until Beerus were weaker than him (and it's extremely unlikely that the main villains of Z, particularly Buu or Cell, would have been stronger than him).

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    • Wow, all this hype makes Broly kind of lame. I prefer characters that have to try.

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    • But trying hard can be overrated too.

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    • Ummm. no? Not trying hard means giving up or coasting.

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    • Not necessarily giving up.

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    • No, the other possibility is coasting.

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    • Well.... Having to struggle all my life I feel that there is nothing wrong with having it easier.

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    • Hm Broly would definitely destroyed Cell in a battle...
      However he would lost against Fat Buu. Why you might ask ?  Regeneration. The main reason of why Buu was such dangerous threat, was because of his insane regeneration and reality warping, plus chocolate beam.... Broly can attack him for a long time, but he doesnt have any means of fully destroying Buu, Buu however just need to hit Broly with one candy beam... 

      Not to mention that Broly is only High 4-C at best, since he could destroy universe only with chain reaction as stated in first movie, and Majin Buu (even the weakest version) would be 4-B.

       

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Hm Broly would definitely destroyed Cell in a battle...
      However he would lost against Fat Buu. Why you might ask ?  Regeneration. The main reason of why Buu was such dangerous threat, was because of his insane regeneration and reality warping, plus chocolate beam.... Broly can attack him for a long time, but he doesnt have any means of fully destroying Buu, Buu however just need to hit Broly with one candy beam... 

      Not to mention that Broly is only High 4-C at best, since he could destroy universe only with chain reaction as stated in first movie, and Majin Buu (even the weakest version) would be 4-B.

       

      As much as I want to say that Buu might stand a chance at beating Broly, the problem is that Buu got destroyed when Frieza blew up the Earth in Resurrection F, which implies that Fat Buu, unlike his pure form, is not capable of surviving being blown to bits in a planetary explosion. It also doesn't help that the FUNimation teaser for Second Coming strongly implied that Broly was stronger than Buu. And I don't recall the first movie ever specifically stating Broly destroyed the galaxy via a chain reaction, just that he blew up the galaxy (and based on what King Kai said, it seemed to be all at once).

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    • Plus the chocolate beam can be pushed back with air.

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    • Yeah. Fat Buu is no match for Broly. Kid Buu, would be more of a match.

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    • I'll concede that Broly is more powerful than Buu and Cell, but that he's also far less interesting. He's a saiyan... but green.

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    • Hulk10 wrote: Yeah. Fat Buu is no match for Broly. Kid Buu, would be more of a match.

      Yeah, and even there, if Broly exploited being absorbed, he'd probably take down Kid Buu from within (hey, if Broly's energy shield can withstand planetary destruction and lava, I'm pretty sure it can withstand absorption as well. It certainly did with Vegito). And I have a funny feeling that Kid Buu might not be able to survive the Omega Blaster, especially one charged up repeatedly by Eraser Cannons beforehand, that it would do him in like with Goku's Spirit Bomb.

      NervousShipper wrote: I'll concede that Broly is more powerful than Buu and Cell, but that he's also far less interesting. He's a saiyan... but green.

      Hey, at least Broly has actual backstory and a frame of mind for why he does the things he did, which is more than we usually get for most villains (Cell basically wants to become more powerful just because, and Majin Buu basically is an overgrown kid who may or may not have been created by Bibidi [Toriyama can't seem to decide for himself what's the case].), so give him some credit.

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    • Unless the audeince got lucky and Broly was too dumb to put the shield up.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: I'll concede that Broly is more powerful than Buu and Cell, but that he's also far less interesting. He's a saiyan... but green.

      I can respect your view that he is less interesting than Cell and Buu.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Unless the audeince got lucky and Broly was too dumb to put the shield up.

      Broly too dumb to put the shield up? That's a good one. Hahahaha

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Unless the audeince got lucky and Broly was too dumb to put the shield up.

      Yeah, I find that unlikely. He certainly made an effort to put that shield up when those Kamehamehas were coming at him, and he used the shield when coming out of the lava pit (though, then again, considering Goku survived a similar trip into lava in the Frieza Saga as a Super Saiyan, I won't be surprised if Broly didn't even need the shield there, and from the way Broly was talking after exacting revenge on Paragus, even the actual LSSJ form itself could tank a planetary explosion, with or without the shield).

      You could compare Broly and his overall character to the Jungian archetypes thing mentioned in Batman Begins.

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      It also doesn't help that the FUNimation teaser for Second Coming strongly implied that Broly was stronger than Buu.

      And I don't recall the first movie ever specifically stating Broly destroyed the galaxy via a chain reaction, just that he blew up the galaxy (and based on what King Kai said, it seemed to be all at once).

      The thing about your FUNimation teaser implying that Broly was stronger than Buu is just your impression, nothing more.  I will say that, nothing indicates that Broly was stronger than Buu, if anything the movie tells you otherwise. Gohan was capable of dealing some sort of damage (kicks, ki blasts which seemed to hurt) to LSSJ Broly (who had Zenkais from the previous injury from movie 1) and Broly gave him a lot of powerful blows which Gohan woould withstand in base form. Buu on the other hand never got a single scratch from Full Powered SSJ2 Gohan energy wave, and defeated Gohan with Single Energy Wave (Gohan would be dead if it wasnt for Shin)

      I've never mentioned galaxy via a chain reaction, I've mentioned Universe via Chain reaction. Which was implied in the movie, so I'm looking at Broly with higher conviction about his destructive power than you.

      Once again Buu regeneration would've allowed him to survive anything that Broly would throw at him, unless Broly would be trying to destroy entire planet, via running into the space and shielding himself from space by his energy bubble... Which is not in character for Broly, he would've wanted to Destroy Buu, which would lead to his eventuall defeat, from Candy beam.

      Broly would try to demolish Buu and prove him that he's the strongest, by toying with him (like he did in every movie) which would lead to Broly death via candy beam or other means. Dont forget while powerful, he's not really that powerful, he really hasnt showed any feats beyond star level, while Fat Majin Buu has shown feats on Multi-Solar System level. It shouldnt even be a debate.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      It also doesn't help that the FUNimation teaser for Second Coming strongly implied that Broly was stronger than Buu.

      And I don't recall the first movie ever specifically stating Broly destroyed the galaxy via a chain reaction, just that he blew up the galaxy (and based on what King Kai said, it seemed to be all at once).

      The thing about your FUNimation teaser implying that Broly was stronger than Buu is just your impression, nothing more.  I will say that, nothing indicates that Broly was stronger than Buu, if anything the movie tells you otherwise. Gohan was capable of dealing some sort of damage (kicks, ki blasts which seemed to hurt) to LSSJ Broly (who had Zenkais from the previous injury from movie 1) and Broly gave him a lot of powerful blows which Gohan woould withstand in base form. Buu on the other hand never got a single scratch from Full Powered SSJ2 Gohan energy wave, and defeated Gohan with Single Energy Wave (Gohan would be dead if it wasnt for Shin)

      I've never mentioned galaxy via a chain reaction, I've mentioned Universe via Chain reaction. Which was implied in the movie, so I'm looking at Broly with higher conviction about his destructive power than you.

      Once again Buu regeneration would've allowed him to survive anything that Broly would throw at him, unless Broly would be trying to destroy entire planet, via running into the space and shielding himself from space by his energy bubble... Which is not in character for Broly, he would've wanted to Destroy Buu, which would lead to his eventuall defeat, from Candy beam.

      Broly would try to demolish Buu and prove him that he's the strongest, by toying with him (like he did in every movie) which would lead to Broly death via candy beam or other means. Dont forget while powerful, he's not really that powerful, he really hasnt showed any feats beyond star level, while Fat Majin Buu has shown feats on Multi-Solar System level. It shouldnt even be a debate.

      That is debatable.

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    • That's true. Really, the winner is going to be whichever character stops monologuing/gloating first.

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    • Yeah monologuing/gloating always does a person in.

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    • It's as debatable as Yamcha vs Zen-oh.

      If we go by power-scalling and in-character personality, then Fat Buu stomps... He made a complete joke out of Majin Vegeta and Gohan, and managed to hold his own against Kid Buu before being ultimately defeated. He was comparable to SSJ3 Goku and ultimately outlasted him in their fight. (sure Goku was toying with him, and could defeat him, but the same Goku would be able to destroy Broly with one punch). Fat Buu was much stronger than Gotenks.... 

      His durbality allowed him to trade blows with SSJ3 Goku...

      Those things are much more impressive feats than what Broly ever did, and once again if we go by character.... BRUTE IDIOT who likes to toy with opponents and tank attacks to prove his strenght...'(He havent killed Videl nor Krillin with his attacks) 


      Then all that Fat Buu needs is one good attack and Broly will be dead via hax... Unless you wanna say that Broly is stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks... Then I'm done.

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    • Ah, screw it.

      This guy stomps three of them at the same time... Due to being able to hold off against ToP Vegeta's Final Flash in SSJ who was also Saiyan Beyond God.

      And while I'm joking by bringing it up, I'm not even joking in terms of power-scalling.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote: It's as debatable as Yamcha vs Zen-oh.

      If we go by power-scalling and in-character personality, then Fat Buu stomps... He made a complete joke out of Majin Vegeta and Gohan, and managed to hold his own against Kid Buu before being ultimately defeated. He was comparable to SSJ3 Goku and ultimately outlasted him in their fight. (sure Goku was toying with him, and could defeat him, but the same Goku would be able to destroy Broly with one punch). Fat Buu was much stronger than Gotenks.... 

      His durbality allowed him to trade blows with SSJ3 Goku...

      Those things are much more impressive feats than what Broly ever did, and once again if we go by character.... BRUTE IDIOT who likes to toy with opponents and tank attacks to prove his strenght...'(He havent killed Videl nor Krillin with his attacks) 


      Then all that Fat Buu needs is one good attack and Broly will be dead via hax... Unless you wanna say that Broly is stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks... Then I'm done.

      It seems you've forgotten that Fat Buu was killed when Frieza blew up Earth. Broly survived planetary explosions twice.

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    • Broly survived planetary explosion as a kid Via Ki Shield, that's something else than normal durabillity.

      While him dying due to planet explosion would be idiotic,

      (Due to him once again surviving Solar System level attacks, many things in DB are stupid....)

      It was really never specifficaly stated that Buu did end up dying tho, not in any interview or even statement by characters.

      As for Broly, he would died too in planet explosion if it wasnt for his shield, and same goes with space (Saiyans cant survive in vaccum of space)

      ​​​​​Unless you wanna ignore the fact with KI shield that I'm bringing up constantly... Then we can say that Broly have higher Durabillity than SSB Vegeta, who died due to planet explosion. 

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Broly survived planetary explosion as a kid Via Ki Shield, that's something else than normal durabillity.

      While him dying due to planet explosion would be idiotic,

      (Due to him once again surviving Solar System level attacks, many things in DB are stupid....)

      It was really never specifficaly stated that Buu did end up dying tho, not in any interview or even statement by characters.

      As for Broly, he would died too in planet explosion if it wasnt for his shield, and same goes with space (Saiyans cant survive in vaccum of space)

      ​​​​​Unless you wanna ignore the fact with KI shield that I'm bringing up constantly... Then we can say that Broly have higher Durabillity than SSB Vegeta, who died due to planet explosion. 

      Your ignoring that Fat Buu died too when Frieza blew up Earth. But your still not making much headway with your argument that Buu is superior to Broly in strength.

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    • Fat Buu died in that moment because having him reform would be too comedic for that scene.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Fat Buu died in that moment because having him reform would be too comedic for that scene.

      That's the real world reason.

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    • exactly, Buu would have been fine.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Your ignoring that Fat Buu died too when Frieza blew up Earth.

      Sigh, I'll repeat, since you need it.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: 

      While him dying due to planet explosion would be idiotic,

      (Due to him once again surviving Solar System level attacks, many things in DB are stupid....)

      It was really never specifficaly stated that Buu did end up dying tho, not in any interview or even statement by characters.


      Just a reminder that Broly cant survive a planet explosion without shield, neither Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta can....


      Hulk10 wrote: But your still not making much headway with your argument that Buu is superior to Broly in strength.


      Here I will try to explain as simple as possible, for you to understand... If you wont, then tell me I'll try to explain it even easier.

      Punches from Broly (second movie) havent killed Base form Gohan, Videl, Trunks, Goten, even after he became serious and started to do his best to kill Gohan in SSJ2.

      Now, you get his... He can't ONE SHOT Gohan with fist, kicks, ki blasts... Okay? We got it? I'm happy.

      Majin Buu was capable of ONE SHOTTING SSJ2 Gohan, while massively holding back, with Ki blast. He was capable of hurting SSJ3 Goku while being serious, and He Destroyed GOTENKS while holding back.

      Do you get it? Please tell me, that you do...

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    • NervousShipper wrote: exactly, Buu would have been fine.

      Except he wasn't.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Your ignoring that Fat Buu died too when Frieza blew up Earth.

      Sigh, I'll repeat, since you need it.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: 

      While him dying due to planet explosion would be idiotic,

      (Due to him once again surviving Solar System level attacks, many things in DB are stupid....)

      It was really never specifficaly stated that Buu did end up dying tho, not in any interview or even statement by characters.


      Just a reminder that Broly cant survive a planet explosion without shield, neither Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta can....


      Hulk10 wrote: But your still not making much headway with your argument that Buu is superior to Broly in strength.


      Here I will try to explain as simple as possible, for you to understand... If you wont, then tell me I'll try to explain it even easier.

      Punches from Broly (second movie) havent killed Base form Gohan, Videl, Trunks, Goten, even after he became serious and started to do his best to kill Gohan in SSJ2.

      Now, you get his... He can't ONE SHOT Gohan with fist, kicks, ki blasts... Okay? We got it? I'm happy.

      Majin Buu was capable of ONE SHOTTING SSJ2 Gohan, while massively holding back, with Ki blast. He was capable of hurting SSJ3 Goku while being serious, and He Destroyed GOTENKS while holding back.

      Do you get it? Please tell me, that you do...

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

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    • Because they needed him to not be for that specific scene, watch them blow the planet up for comedy, he'll be fine.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      That's a problem?

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      That's a problem?

      Yes because he was being condescending. Didn't you read what he wrote asking if I understood and that he wanted me to tell him I understood?

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      That's a problem?
      Yes because he was being condescending. Didn't you read what he wrote asking if I understood and that he wanted me to tell him I understood?

      Nah, I didn't think his post was important enough to read.

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    • Apparently... Welp, I've bring up the feats, but it seems it's not a debate about who would win in real fight, but rather who YOU to win. ​​​​​ ​

      I'm just gonna leave this link to Power Scalling wiki with which I do agree in majority of the cases.... (not with DMC dante tho), if anyone want to see how Broly is scalled to Majin Buu in overall statistics... It can be kinda fun.

      No matter which power scalling wiki you will search or which power scaller will you ask, (Geekdoom/Seth/IRobot) they will all agree that Broly wouldnt stand a chance against Fat Buu.

      But hey, if you like to belive that Broly would destroy Majin Buu, then that's fine with me... 


      http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Majin_Buu#Skinny%20Buu


      http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Broly

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      That's a problem?
      Yes because he was being condescending. Didn't you read what he wrote asking if I understood and that he wanted me to tell him I understood?

      Nah, I didn't think his post was important enough to read.

      Hahahahahahahahahahahaha, well played.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Broly survived planetary explosion as a kid Via Ki Shield, that's something else than normal durabillity.

      While him dying due to planet explosion would be idiotic,

      (Due to him once again surviving Solar System level attacks, many things in DB are stupid....)

      It was really never specifficaly stated that Buu did end up dying tho, not in any interview or even statement by characters.

      As for Broly, he would died too in planet explosion if it wasnt for his shield, and same goes with space (Saiyans cant survive in vaccum of space)

      ​​​​​Unless you wanna ignore the fact with KI shield that I'm bringing up constantly... Then we can say that Broly have higher Durabillity than SSB Vegeta, who died due to planet explosion. 

      I was also thinking of when he said "Did [Paragus] really think I would die just because [New Planet Vegeta] was about to explode?" just after crushing Paragus's escape pod (with Paragus inside of it) and throwing it to Comet Camori. He never even alluded to using his shield during that time. And you're also forgetting that the flashback to when Paragus adorned Broly with the crown had the two of them not only breathing, but even yelling and laughing, respectively, in Space, with no shield effect seen or even implied.

      Also, as Hulk10 pointed out, Buu died during Resurrection F due to being blown up by Frieza via his Earth Breaker attack.

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    • But yeah, Broly's overrated. If he were brought into the main continuity he'd be fodder... like Raditz.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: But yeah, Broly's overrated. If he were brought into the main continuity he'd be fodder... like Raditz.

      Yeah, considering he's the Legendary Super Saiyan, I find it very hard to believe he'd be fodder, especially not after just how much the Super Saiyan Legend was given focus even in the manga, let alone the anime, and all BEFORE Broly's debut.

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    • Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: But yeah, Broly's overrated. If he were brought into the main continuity he'd be fodder... like Raditz.

      Yeah, considering he's the Legendary Super Saiyan, I find it very hard to believe he'd be fodder, especially not after just how much the Super Saiyan Legend was given focus even in the manga, let alone the anime, and all BEFORE Broly's debut.

      Yeah cause Kale, another Super Saiyan of Legend, was a major threat.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Apparently... Welp, I've bring up the feats, but it seems it's not a debate about who would win in real fight, but rather who YOU to win. ​​​​​ ​

      I'm just gonna leave this link to Power Scalling wiki with which I do agree in majority of the cases.... (not with DMC dante tho), if anyone want to see how Broly is scalled to Majin Buu in overall statistics... It can be kinda fun.

      No matter which power scalling wiki you will search or which power scaller will you ask, (Geekdoom/Seth/IRobot) they will all agree that Broly wouldnt stand a chance against Fat Buu.

      But hey, if you like to belive that Broly would destroy Majin Buu, then that's fine with me... 


      http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Majin_Buu#Skinny%20Buu


      http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Broly

      We all have our opinions, and you have your evidence and I have mine.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      Oh so you're this type of a person... That's your problem tho, not mine. Just dont say it to anyone who actually care about Power-Scalling, if they'll take you seriously (which I did at first) they would destroy you with arguments, which you wouldnt care about anyway, because they would be against your fav character.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: But yeah, Broly's overrated. If he were brought into the main continuity he'd be fodder... like Raditz.

      Kale is a lot like Broly and she's not fodder.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote:
      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      Oh so you're this type of a person...

      That's your problem tho, not mine. Just dont say it to anyone who actually care about Power-Scalling, if they'll take you seriously (which I did at first) they would destroy you with arguments, which you wouldnt care about anyway, because they would be against your fav character.

      You're not wrong. His response to everything is, "you can think that way and I'll think mine", because he doesn't know what the point of discussion is.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: But yeah, Broly's overrated. If he were brought into the main continuity he'd be fodder... like Raditz.

      Kale is a lot like Broly and she's not fodder.

      Who of importance did she beat?

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Meshifuari Arimota wrote:
      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      Oh so you're this type of a person...

      That's your problem tho, not mine. Just dont say it to anyone who actually care about Power-Scalling, if they'll take you seriously (which I did at first) they would destroy you with arguments, which you wouldnt care about anyway, because they would be against your fav character.

      You're not wrong. His response to everything is, "you can think that way and I'll think mine", because he doesn't know what the point of discussion is.

      I feel like the whole point of this Thread could be summed up with: ​​​​​​ ~Majin Buu actually might stand a chance...

      -No he doesnt, and I dont agree with anything else you will bring up, I dont even care to bother with it so you might as well stop (I think I will, it's kinda not worth it).

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      Oh so you're this type of a person... That's your problem tho, not mine. Just dont say it to anyone who actually care about Power-Scalling, if they'll take you seriously (which I did at first) they would destroy you with arguments, which you wouldnt care about anyway, because they would be against your fav character.

      Broly isn't my favorite character actually.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote:
      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      Oh so you're this type of a person...

      That's your problem tho, not mine. Just dont say it to anyone who actually care about Power-Scalling, if they'll take you seriously (which I did at first) they would destroy you with arguments, which you wouldnt care about anyway, because they would be against your fav character.

      You're not wrong. His response to everything is, "you can think that way and I'll think mine", because he doesn't know what the point of discussion is.

      I do know what the point of discussion is. Its to exchange ideas or reach a decision.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote:
      Hulk10 wrote:

      The problem isn't that I don't get what your saying. The problem is I don't agree with you.

      Oh so you're this type of a person...

      That's your problem tho, not mine. Just dont say it to anyone who actually care about Power-Scalling, if they'll take you seriously (which I did at first) they would destroy you with arguments, which you wouldnt care about anyway, because they would be against your fav character.

      You're not wrong. His response to everything is, "you can think that way and I'll think mine", because he doesn't know what the point of discussion is.
      I do know what the point of discussion is. Its to exchange ideas or reach a decision.

      How many times have you successfully reached a decision that wasn't originally yours?

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote:

      Weedle McHairybug wrote:

      It also doesn't help that the FUNimation teaser for Second Coming strongly implied that Broly was stronger than Buu.

      And I don't recall the first movie ever specifically stating Broly destroyed the galaxy via a chain reaction, just that he blew up the galaxy (and based on what King Kai said, it seemed to be all at once).

      The thing about your FUNimation teaser implying that Broly was stronger than Buu is just your impression, nothing more.  I will say that, nothing indicates that Broly was stronger than Buu, if anything the movie tells you otherwise. Gohan was capable of dealing some sort of damage (kicks, ki blasts which seemed to hurt) to LSSJ Broly (who had Zenkais from the previous injury from movie 1) and Broly gave him a lot of powerful blows which Gohan woould withstand in base form. Buu on the other hand never got a single scratch from Full Powered SSJ2 Gohan energy wave, and defeated Gohan with Single Energy Wave (Gohan would be dead if it wasnt for Shin)

      I've never mentioned galaxy via a chain reaction, I've mentioned Universe via Chain reaction. Which was implied in the movie, so I'm looking at Broly with higher conviction about his destructive power than you.

      Once again Buu regeneration would've allowed him to survive anything that Broly would throw at him, unless Broly would be trying to destroy entire planet, via running into the space and shielding himself from space by his energy bubble... Which is not in character for Broly, he would've wanted to Destroy Buu, which would lead to his eventuall defeat, from Candy beam.

      Broly would try to demolish Buu and prove him that he's the strongest, by toying with him (like he did in every movie) which would lead to Broly death via candy beam or other means. Dont forget while powerful, he's not really that powerful, he really hasnt showed any feats beyond star level, while Fat Majin Buu has shown feats on Multi-Solar System level. It shouldnt even be a debate.

      I was referring to the opening tagline for the trailer where it says "The strongest being in the universe is back for revenge." Considering the movie was released around the time Fat Buu was a threat, the implication was pretty clear how strong Broly was compared to at least Fat Buu.

      As far as Broly and his destructive output, a galaxy IS multi-star system level, so he's already beyond star level by that point (or do I have to point out that, based on King Kai whining on the destruction of the South Galaxy and being panicked enough to immediately call Goku to deal with the threat during the Cell Games Saga, Broly's destruction of the galaxy was not gradual. If it were gradual, King Kai would have dispatched Goku much earlier to deal with him like, I don't know, during the leadup to the Namek Saga [it was about 30 years between Broly's birth and the destruction of the South Galaxy, the latter of which is the closest he can call a home thanks to being in hiding from Frieza and his men. And I doubt that King Kai would be THAT incompetent to ignore a growing threat of galactic scale for over 30 years.]. Heck, even send Frieza to deal with him even). Heck, at the time, he also was strongly implied to have done so while Paragus essentially had him handicapped with that crown of his.

      And as Hulk10 stated, yet again, as have I, Resurrection F had Fat Buu being killed by Frieza's Earth Breaker. Kid Buu might be able to regenerate from a blast like that, but definitely not Fat Buu. Broly has in fact survived two planetary destruction events, one of which didn't even involve his energy shield (and he implied that he didn't even need his shield in his LSSJ form to survive the planet exploding after killing Paragus.).

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    • I'm beginning to remember why I originally stopped using the forum........

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      I'm beginning to remember why I originally stopped using the forum........

      heated discussions?

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      I'm beginning to remember why I originally stopped using the forum........

      heated discussions?

      No.....

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      I'm beginning to remember why I originally stopped using the forum........
      heated discussions?
      No.....

      People not holding your opinions and divine judgments?

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:
      I'm beginning to remember why I originally stopped using the forum........
      heated discussions?
      No.....

      People not holding your opinions and divine judgments?

      no.........

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    • This is why nobody likes you @NervousShipper. You and the other snowflakes on here are simply condescending jerks, it's amazing how none of you have had any warnings for your constant insults. The moderation on the dragon ball wikia is absolute garbage. Who is the wiki beaurocrat?

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    • You know snowflakes are the ones who are too sensitive right? Maybe you should postpone using that word until after it doesn't apply to you.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: You know snowflakes are the ones who are too sensitive right? Maybe you should postpone using that word until after it doesn't apply to you.

      Like I said, the ones who use the term unironically are the biggest so-called "snowflakes".

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    • Partial issue with powerscaling movie characters is that :

      1) As mentioned, movies are generally assumed to take place in an alternate universe. That's how Wheelo is possible, that's how Lord Slug is possible, and that's how Goku doesn't have SSJ form much more simply transformed into in the first Cooler movie, even though by all rights he should. 

      2) The movie writers agree that at the very least 'the next villain Goku faces should be stronger than the last', but that rule is neither completely set in stone nor is it something you can use to suggest villain with a higher movie number is always stronger than the villain before them (Bio Broly is fodder compared to both other two appearances of Broly and Bojack himself, and suitably enough Goku doesn't fight him in the movie). 



      As such, we can have two approaches to analyze :

      - Forcibly trying to fit the movies into the timeline

      - Trying to extrapolate events of the movie within a completely separate timeline and judge from there.



      In Movie 10, Gohan seems to imply he is stronger than when he last fought Broly. Obviously, he has access to SSJ2 now, but at the very least this leads fans to believe he has trained compared to his movie 10 incarnation, meaning he's not as weak as he was at the start of Buu Saga (unless Gohan in movie 8 is significantly weaker than Cell Games' Gohan). Unlike the placement of Gohan's power in Movie 8, which was arbitrary except for his Super Saiyan form (the movie came out before appropriate manga chapters), in Movie 10 that decision is very much informed (movie was released about a year after first Buu Saga chapters).  




      Approach 1st : Shoving movie down the main timelines' throat. 

      Movie 8 : 

      - Gohan and Goku are weaker than their Cell Games' counterparts and any potential powerups they get from fighting in the movies contribute towards their Cell Games' powerlevel. Trunks and Vegeta are almost the same as they were at Cell Games.

      - Broly's surpressed SSJ form gets kicked by Vegeta in very much the same manner Cell was, and with very much the same effect. Vegeta at this point should be a fair bit stronger, however, if weaker than his Cell Games' self. Therefore, surpressed SSJ Broly >=Surpressed Perfect Cell. Then we need to figure out how much each of them was surpressed, but I say it's fair to state that, in this case, prior to getting stronger throughout the movie, LSSJ Broly is 1.5-4 times stronger than Full Power Perfect Cell (not Super Perfect Cell, however, or the buffed form). Gohan easily wrecking Perfect Cell means he'd have to be about 1.5-2.5 times stronger than Perfect Cell himself, which makes some sense (rage boost + power being doubled from SSJ2 form).  Super Perfect Cell roughly matches that. 

      Verdict : Movie 8 Broly likely can fight and defeat Perfect Cell and depending on unknown factors either puts up a fight against Super Perfect Cell or defeats him as well, particularly by the end of the movie. Who survives the fight is debatable as Cell might resort to drastic measures again. Let's not underestimate the skills and regenerative ability of Cell either in this case, as depending on how Broly is scaled they might push the battle in his favor. 




      Movie 10 :

      - Gohan is weaker than his Cell Games' incarnation, which is why his Super Saiyan 2 form cannot keep up with Broly.

      - Gohan  puts up a fight against Broly. Mildly stronger Gohan gets absolutely wrecked by Majin Buu in his first form. 

      - Buu also has regeneration on his side.

      Verdict : Broly under this assumption can't win against Fat Buu








      Approach 2 : Treating movies as completely separate timelines :

      Movie 8 :

      - It's absolutely impossible to measure how strong characters in Movie 8 are. Vegeta, Gohan and Trunks are all roughly same-tier fodder and Goku keeps up minimal resistance. How strong Broly is in relation to Perfect Cell and Super Perfect Cell here depends entirely on assumptions. 

      -Safe and common assumpion would be they are meant to be incredibly close to their Cell Games' incarnations.

      - Broly is therefore roughly as strong as if we forcibly put the movie in the timeline. This is supported by his ability to threaten a whole galaxy : While I repeatedly stated how I feel about this, unless he can blast multiple planets or entire solar systems away in the Super Perfect Cell fashion, this would take years, rather than a short period of time that makes sense when compared to the movie's story. 



      Movie 10 :

      - Gohan is stronger than his Cell Games' self, or at least his movie 8 self, but by an unknown factor. Broly's regular SSJ form is implied to be roughly the same in power as his LSSJ form previously.

      - Majin Vegeta SSJ2 and Goku SSJ2 are also stronger than Gohan at Cell Games despite not having visible rage power-ups. We can assume Gohan is a little bit below that level.

      - Vegeta wrecks Majin Buu prior to Buu getting angry, and is not completely obliterated by Buu's angry attack. His own strongest attack can in fact destroy Buu, just not to the point where he cannot regenerate.

      - We can assume Broly would fare better than Majin Vegeta power-wise, and the movie's prelude and trailers also strongly imply Broly > Fat Buu



      Kid Buu and Super Buu vs Broly would be much trickier because no one in the fanbase seems to actually agree how much of a powerup they are on the base Fat Buu form. Depending on how strong you think Broly is here, and how much of a powerup those forms of Buu are, it could be a good fight, or it could result in movie 10 Broly getting wrecked due to being unable to overcome their regeneration consistently.


      Personal opinion : Broly would struggle greatly with both these forms of Buu, as we've seen in the case of Gotenks : Similar levels of power result in being unable to properly take down Buu, and neither Broly nor Gotenks are particularly skilled fighters. While it is possible Broly would defeat those forms of Buu, any absorbed form of Super Buu defeats him precisely due to this : Broly lost easily to Goku when he no longer had the huge upper hand in power. He doesn't control Ki well and isn't good at even exchanges of attacks, while Buu gains much of the techniques and intelligence of Piccolo with even his weakest state with absorbtions. 

      Verdict : 'Buuhan', 'Buutenks' and 'Buccolo' could all defeat Broly. Any previous forms are arguable. Good Buu immediately after the split from Super Buu, and likely Evil Buu immediately after that split as well, should have absolutely no chance no matter the individual power scaling of Broly's movies. 



      I'll try to respond to posts directed at me specifically when I have a bit more free time. 

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    • Did I hurt your feelings?? @NervousShipper and Orion :)

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    • FlatZone wrote: Did I hurt your feelings?? @NervousShipper and Orion :)

      Sweetie, you got triggered by NervousShipper disagreeing with you. Pretending everyone else has a problem isn't gonna help, although I know people like you can't help it.

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    • The only people that got triggered were you all, resorting to insults and now that someone is doing it back you can't handle it?? Definition of a snow flake, bucko.

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    • Sweetie, I didn't even comment on this thread until you were triggered enough by my kudos to NervousShipper - the only interaction I'd had in the thread until that point - to call me out for it. Keep pretending we're the ones who are being triggered, though. I'm sure you'll believe it eventually.

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    • Hahaha awww are you ok? You must be an 8 year old girl, calling people Sweetie. Aren't you just the softest little one.

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    • Anyway, ignoring the "snowflake", I think Broly is stronger than Cell, but probably weaker than Buu. He was shown to blow up planets with a single (uncharged) blast, which puts him above Cell. On the other hand, Buu can regenerate, even from a planetary blast. In a straight-up fight, Buu would probably have the advantage.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Hahaha awww are you ok? You must be an 8 year old girl, calling people Sweetie. Aren't you just the softest little one.

      Whatever you say, sweetie.

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    • QuakingStar
      QuakingStar removed this reply because:
      unnessecary
      20:54, May 9, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Who the f calls people snow flake?? Back on topic though FlatZone or you'll get a warning.. I think M10 Broly kills fat Buu in the end but thats where he stops. 

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    • FlatZone called people snowflake. I'm doing it ironically.

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    • ya'll instigated me but whatever.. I agree Broly could beat Fat Buu.

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    • Please explain how I "instigated" you without even interacting with you directly until you called me out. I'll wait.

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    • Ok, my mistake I wrote your name in that comment I must have been reading your name or something when I was writing that. But yes, NervousShipper for example is an instigator.

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    • He expressed a different opinion than yours before you freaked out. How is that "instigating"?

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    • yeah I was reading the comments, and the condescending instigation from certain people who are not FlatZone is obvious, althought FlatZone did seem to have a short fuse and start firing back very quickly.

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    • NervousShipper starts its condescending bs

      "Broly would lose to 18 "

      "There's nothing insulting about losing to a woman. Anyway, ignorantness isn't a word and if you keep being spiteful towards the English language I'll report you. "

      "I get the feeling that he thinks wearing pink will make his dick fall off. "



      BH Ouji starts his bs

      "(fixed)

      Wow so many Broli fanboys here

      What, so even Gotenks/Vegetto can't beat him?!"

      " Hahahahaha good one. "

      " "I get the feeling that he thinks wearing pink will make his d*ck fall off." - eh, about who was that rude comment?

      "I can't shake the feeling that Broli won't last long against Cell and Maijin Buu." - fixed "

      and there are more than this. You people are condescending and rude, yet you like to play innocent when others point it out.

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    • Yeah I read those comments, this place has shit management I must say.

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    • I'm still waiting for you to point out how NervousShipper expressing a different opinion from yours is "instigating". Just saying it's "condescending bs" makes it sound like you live in echo chambers. Keep in mind that every comment after that was only because you flipped your shit over NervousShipper expressing an opinion you disagreed with.

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    • Now you're construing it. If you can't see how they instigated him then just drop it because you're coming off as bad as they were. Anyway.. I'm out. This wiki needs help.

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    • Or you could explain how expressing an opinion you disagree with is "instigating" instead of resorting to fallacies like that.

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    • A FANDOM user
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