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  • I don't think Gero's Earthling technology was or should be so advanced his creations could prevail over some of the Multiverse's Top Tier fighters, I can somehow see how he managed to highly surpass Frieza and King Cold since the story needed to get a move on towards a bigger threat than these two that this time was situated on Earth, but this was propostorous. 
    Android 17 by saodvd-dbiwoh5

    Android 17

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    • I thought the explanation was plausible. He can still improve like a human, even if he's an android.

      Furthermore, keep in mind that those "top fighters" he prevailed over were weaker than U7's, not to mention the fact that he took many of them out using strategy, and not brute force, because he can't actually compete 1v1.

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    • Orion Invictus wrote:
      I thought the explanation was plausible. He can still improve like a human, even if he's an android.

      Furthermore, keep in mind that those "top fighters" he prevailed over were weaker than U7's, not to mention the fact that he took many of them out using strategy, and not brute force, because he can't actually compete 1v1.

      He managed to go toe to toe with SSB Goku (anime)/SSJ 3 Goku in the manga which is utterly disappointing to me, all 17 have ever done for training was to protect animals from poachers, no SSG ritual and not facing any major enemy who could've helped/made him power up (as Krillin and the other Human Z-Fighters got from surviving their harshest of battles) past his release from Cell's body.

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    • If 17 can change, you can change. Get over it. It's not as stupid as Goku doing what every character (except 17 and future Trunks) does:


      Stall stall stall stall stall gloat gloat gloat nearly lose by running out of power/your form

      or die to your opponent who gets a massive boost in power because you called them names

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    • I was annoyed/disappointed at first but then the sheer awesomeness became too much and I became a 17 fanboy. Nobody can see the last episode without becoming a fan of Frieza and 17.

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    • I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren in vegeta and Goku's first fight against him. He could have been quickly knocked out by Jiren after getting serious or perhaps KOed but waking up to block the attack loco jiren sent towards the audience stands (getting eliminated in the process). He wouldn't have really conflicted with the story but it would have been more honourable than being eliminated by a bug man in a gag sequence.

      Because of this I was a bit salty about how well 17 was being treated (he was pretty much the MVP !) Though by the last episode or so, the sheer awesomeness was too much for anyone to be salty.

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    • LordWhis wrote: I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren

      Are... are you okay?

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    • 17 fought poachers all the time, sure. But where's the proof that that's his 'only' means of training?

      ^Even regular self-training, the likes of which Goku and Vegeta consistently do (if under conditions like gravity machines, hyperbolic time chamber, etc), would be enough to gradually improve himself overtime, just as it's done for Piccolo and the other non-Saiyans to varying degrees. Not to mention, he had many years to get stronger, in comparison to Frieza's prodigy status jumping him from just under Z-level SSJ to overpowering SSJB (prior to his stamina running out) in four months

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      LordWhis wrote: I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren

      Are... are you okay?

      Besides the ridiculous power scaling, a Namekian using Kaioken could very well surpass Goku's x20 limit, due to their self-regeneration. Frieza could probably do it too, because he can survive under almost any condition, although he would be unable to recover from the damage on his own.

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    • Orion Invictus wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      LordWhis wrote: I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren

      Are... are you okay?
      Besides the ridiculous power scaling, a Namekian using Kaioken could very well surpass Goku's x20 limit, due to their self-regeneration. Frieza could probably do it too, because he can survive under almost any condition, although he would be unable to recover from the damage on his own.

      If there was a pre-ToP episode where Piccolo goes with Jaco to Zuno to learn more about the Namekian Book of Legends that was destroyed with the original Planet Namek, and then picked up some cool ancient spell only the Dragon Clan Namekians can use (Kami) to burst his powerlevel by thousands of folds to the realms of let's say RoF Final Form Frieza for a brief period of time (let's say it will allow him 10-15 minutes) in the cost of most of his given stamina, I wouldn't have any problems with Piccolo's writing in Super.

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    • Rofus1 wrote:

      Orion Invictus wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      LordWhis wrote: I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren

      Are... are you okay?
      Besides the ridiculous power scaling, a Namekian using Kaioken could very well surpass Goku's x20 limit, due to their self-regeneration. Frieza could probably do it too, because he can survive under almost any condition, although he would be unable to recover from the damage on his own.

      If there was a pre-ToP episode where Piccolo goes with Jaco to Zuno to learn more about the Namekian Book of Legends that was destroyed with the original Planet Namek, and then picked up some cool ancient spell only the Dragon Clan Namekians can use (Kami) to burst his powerlevel by thousands of folds to the realms of let's say RoF Final Form Frieza for a brief period of time (let's say it will allow him 10-15 minutes) in the cost of most of his given stamina, I wouldn't have any problems with Piccolo's writing in Super.

      Current Piccolo would murder ROF Final Form Frieza.... with his pinky finger.

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    • If by "murder" you mean "lose badly to", then you're right.

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    • NervousShipper wrote: If by "murder" you mean "lose badly to", then you're right.

      ROF final form Frieza was in the same class as ROF Base Goku. Piccolo was stronger than SSJ2 Gohan who was able to stalemate ToP Arc SSJ2 Goku.

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    • LordWhis wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: If by "murder" you mean "lose badly to", then you're right.

      ROF final form Frieza was in the same class as ROF Base Goku. Piccolo was stronger than SSJ2 Gohan who was able to stalemate ToP Arc SSJ2 Goku.

      Yeah, well, about that.... I agree with you but DBS had been truly messed up and inconsistent with power scaling.

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    • Orion Invictus wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:

      LordWhis wrote: I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren

      Are... are you okay?

      Besides the ridiculous power scaling, a Namekian using Kaioken could very well surpass Goku's x20 limit, due to their self-regeneration. Frieza could probably do it too, because he can survive under almost any condition, although he would be unable to recover from the damage on his own.

      There is nothing that ridiculous about the powerscaling. Peers of Piccolo such as Non-UI Goku, Vegeta, Frieza and 17 were all able to achieve similar levels by pure willpower, Piccolo could logically do the same based on how the rules seem to work in the DB verse.

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    • LordWhis wrote: I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren in vegeta and Goku's first fight against him. He could have been quickly knocked out by Jiren after getting serious or perhaps KOed but waking up to block the attack loco jiren sent towards the audience stands (getting eliminated in the process). He wouldn't have really conflicted with the story but it would have been more honourable than being eliminated by a bug man in a gag sequence.

      Because of this I was a bit salty about how well 17 was being treated (he was pretty much the MVP !) Though by the last episode or so, the sheer awesomeness was too much for anyone to be salty.

      Piccolo accidentally killing Gamisaris while powering up would have also been cool.

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    • I think it's important to note that as an android, 17 doesn't tire and doesn't require food, only hydration. Not only was this useful in the ToP (other fighters gradually tired as the fight went on, giving 17 the edge), but it also means that he can train for longer than the likes of Goku or Vegeta, who have to stop to rest and eat.

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    • And in fact they said that Vegeta not relaxing is why he can't get as strong as Goku who takes the time to let his body recover. 17 has the best of both worlds

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    • According to Toyotaro's 36th Manga chapter, 17 can't even sense Ki.

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    • I believe so, but what is your point?

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    • Rofus1 wrote:
      According to Toyotaro

      Hahah, oh well.

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    • I think I've heard before that 17 and 18 can't sense ki, I think it has something to do with their artificial ki. We all know organics can't sense Android Ki, so I guess it works both ways.

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    • They don't have auras either, but check out the ToP

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    • LordWhis wrote:

      ROF final form Frieza was in the same class as ROF Base Goku.

      a common misconception. frieza fought saiyan beyond god goku, not base goku. in saiyan beyond god, a saiyan possesses power similar to that of a super saiyan god, and in that form, their super saiyan naturally acends to ssb, and the saiyan is unable to use lower forms like regular super saiyan (but i'm not sure about giant ape). since ROF frieza=<sbg goku (i think goku was winnig in the anime, but i'm not sure)=ssg, ROF base frieza was actually god tier. also, goku never used SBG again, as he was able to use the regular super saiyan. we all know that piccolo is nowhere near super saiyan god, which is around frieza's level, hence we can conclude that frieza is the one who will kill piccolo with his pinkie.

      anyway, back on topic. i wasn't annoyed disappointed with 17's sudden power-up, i was annoyed infuriated with it and the TOP's terrible power scaling in general. goku's power variations were still somewhat acceptable, as he is an idiot who loves a good fight almost as much as he loves food, hence it is possible that he wouldn't hold back so that he would one-hit K.O. his opponents, but Jiren? NO. one moment he's dominating SSBKK*20 goku, and literally 10 minutes later ssb vegeta is landing hits on him. fast forward another 10 minutes, and we see he has so much hidden power that he can gain an advantage over MASTERED ultra instinct. then goku hits him with one kamhameha, and suddenly he's struggling against base goku, final form frieza and android 17, all three severly damaged. this is just unacceptable.

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    • We all know that piccolo is nowhere near super saiyan god.

      Well, not everyone here knows that. We have one or two flat earthers.

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    • right, I forgot LordWhis.

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    • A FANDOM user
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