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  • The communications with Toshio were nice and all, especially when he was "spoiling" us when we still had no Animedia or other leaks to know what the future episodes are gonna be about but that's it.

    Battle of Gods Arc

    Dragons Goku and Beerus

    Beerus vs. Goku: whose Dragon is bigger?

    • Why were the characters drawn younger, especially Trunks, Goten and Marron? It serves no purpose...
    • Why is Goku so dumb in contrary to how he was in Z and why do Vegeta is a cocky idiot as he was before the Majin Vegeta phase of his life?
    • What was the problem of avoiding showing us all the old Z-Fighters jump in on Beerus to prevent him from hurting their peers and loved ones BEFORE GOKU SHOWS UP as Akira Toriyama intended in his original movie draft (the scene was not animated because of the movie's length for cinemas)?
    • What was the purpose of Goku and Beerus throwing God ki Shenrons at each other?

    Golden Frieza Arc

    • Why was this whole arc so rushed and pointless? Couldn't they paced it with more flesh to Frieza and Tagoma's extreme growth in power over like 4 episodes since he was revived?
    • If there were scouters around why didn't we got to hear any of the soldiers using them or Sorbet stating at least one number? Even if it's a suppressed power level to give us some idea of what's going on there? Sorbet was even afraid of Tagoma, who just killed Shisami and severally injured rusty Gohan, when he realized that "he surpassed the Ginyu Force" like this power level (that is below 530,000) wasn't broke by Chiaotzu like over a decade ago (in-universe)?
    • Why weren't Yamcha and Chiaotzu casted here, I get it that too many fight sequences can be "unfitting" to theatres due the overall length but here it was barely one episode and a dull one to say the least...? Goten and Trunks got their "payback" for their absence in the movie, probably because they're half-Saiyans.

    Universe 6 Arc

    • What was the issue with the unfunny joke of dropping out Good Buu AGAIN after the previous arc (also in the ToP)?
    • Why was Monaka so weak? Couldn't it be a refreshment to have anyone better than the leading Saiyans - also as a (temporal, duh) barrier of power between them and Beerus and Whis?
    • Why don't we hear about Universe 7's counterpart races of Hit, Auta Magetta and Botamo? It could've been useful for the Tournament of Power...
    • Why was Base Vegeta implied to be stronger than SSJ 3 Gotenks when he needed to use SSJ (X50 times base) to fight weaklings (Hop was weaker than Basil who is roughly Majin Vegeta-tier according to his fight with the weaker Good Majin Buu) in the ToP in the future?

    Goku Black Arc

    The Anger Rift.

    Goku Black's wormhole

    • What was the dimension Black had opened with his scythe? What was the purpose of showing it if it never got explained?
    • Why didn't Vegeta went to Planet Sadala of Universe 6 by this point in time for a 3 episodes mini-arc after the Zamasus were defeated IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR HIM?
    • Why weren't there any illusions of Zarbon and Dodoria at Krillin's episodes in the "Forrest of Illusions", he was terrified of them while they were stronger than him?

    Tournament of Power

    • Why were the feats and power scaling so messed up? Why on Earth base Goku who is stronger than Kid Buu at this point will even have to use SSJ against Krillin (WHO GOT HYPED SO MUCH FOR WEEKS BEFORE ONLY TO BE SCREWED SO BADLY?!), let alone Super Sayian Blue that multiplies his strength by over 400 times?
    • Why rehashing Frieza again for the billionth time? Couldn't they figure out another way to PR this arc?
    • Why was Roshi so powered up? He should've gave up on participating, making room to a better fighter like Chiaotzu, Yamcha, Pikkon or a new character; Ganos who is stronger than DBZ Final Form Frieza without a doubt is not a B-rate Frieza Soldier who had a power level of roughly 700-1000, so why stretch this so much?
    • Why was Android 17 who was living a peaceful life without too much stretch - all he did was pouching poachers with less than 0.001% of his power - for 12 years got to the realms Goku needs SSB to test him? Not that I believe he's even at modern Goku's SSJ 3 tier but Wasn't it enough? Also, why did he outlast Gohan WHO GOT HYPED SO HARD BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT EVEN STARTED?? Wasn't his BS power up and stupid barrier enough to suffer already?
    • Why was the pacing of this arc so slow and dragging? Couldn't they give us a crisis going on Earth while the ToP takes place, with jumps to Earth every few episodes or scenes within the ToP or something?
    • Why were many of the ToP character just canonized versions of movie characters?
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    • No, because "dragonball stupid" is a ridiculously childish insult.

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    • Dragon Ball is not supposed to have a deep writing level. It's supposed to be fun and (more or less) internally consistent. If you want deep, pick up Tolkien or Lovecraft or something.

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    • And I totally agree. I can even say this series us more awful than GT. I mean seriously, the Universe Survival Saga is when they completely throw logic out of the window.

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    • No. But I agree that your post is childish and shallow enough to simply name it stupid.[[ | ]]  

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    • Perfect Ceru
      Perfect Ceru removed this reply because:
      d
      20:27, February 12, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      And I totally agree. I can even say this series us more awful than GT. I mean seriously, the Universe Survival Saga is when they completely throw logic out of the window.

      The feats and messed up power scaling are a big issue with DBS, at least in DBZ you could feel when a character's strength progressed or dropped, here any character can grow insanely stronger within a RIDICOLOUSLY short amount of time even if this character had quit training years/decades ago without even the age factor limiting them in the background.

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    • I don't think this is a case of Super having bad writing.

      It's a case of Super having things that are stupid to you.

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    • Steelspur111 wrote:

      I don't think this is a case of Super having bad writing.

      It's a case of Super having things that are stupid to you.

      The problem is, it does have bad writing, even in Dragon Ball standards. 

      The characters don't really have a character arc, especially Goku and Vegeta. They both are one-dimensional and unlikable characters, Goku especially. Even in the dub, I hate this new Goku and even though I liked FighterZ, one of the things that ruined it is this new Goku because they Toei has to use the old "Goku is dumb" joke as much as every modern comedy movie overuses fart jokes. This Goku is the most incompetant, boring, and insulting version of Goku ever, even GT Goku wasn't this dumb and if he was it was for gag purposes and it does a somewhat good job in doing that. For a series that isn't really a gag series anymore, it has a lot of jokes, and these jokes are hardly funny AT ALL. Goku is not the same Goku from Z at all as he seems to forget stuff A LOT and does some of the most retarded things ever cough thinking Beerus is Monaka even though he has the same ki as Beerus and the costume is ripped showing Beerus' appendages, and is somewhat taller cough. And for Vegeta, he gets this Drax treatment where this tragic warrior turns into a joke type. What Vegeta is used or besides fighting is not character development like before, NO that would ridiculous, let's just use him as this stoic character but thinking something weird inside. HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! THAT'S SO FUNNY!!! Yeah, the writing is Super is just so awful, it has no character arcs like before, the characters don't really seem to develop with their power instead if not suddely gaining it take a backseat to Goku or Vegeta. And this is just the beginning of the problems.

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    • I have to admit Toshio was nice towards all of us, and it was neat of him to communicate and "spoil" us from time to time on Twitter!

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    • It’s not okay with the power scaling, they mess up so many times

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    • Dragonball was never known for it's good writing, but Super is an insult to even that. When you thought it couldn't get worse after the Boo-Saga and GT...

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    • Super is obviously designed to be fun, which I think it is. After all the good vs evil heroics in the Z anime, Super comes accross as too silly for what's going on, but they have to up the ante. That's what you do in a long running series.

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    • Or you could end the series on a high note and stop milking it for all its worth until it becomes a former shell of itself.

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    • a shell of its former self

      But no. It's still not as bad as Supernatural.

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    • to nickname Dragon Ball Super "Dragon Ball Stupid", do you agree?

      Nope but i agree with my friend to call you stupid and childish. But hey maybe it come from our innability to understand haters and/or whinners.

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    • Wesker1984 wrote: to nickname Dragon Ball Super "Dragon Ball Stupid", do you agree?

      Nope but i agree with my friend to call you stupid and childish. But hey maybe it come from our innability to understand haters and/or whinners.

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.

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    • Perfect Ceru wrote:

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.

      That is the saddest response I've ever seen.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Perfect Ceru wrote:

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.

      That is the saddest response I've ever seen.

      So true, bro. His level of stupidity is becoming higher and his credibility is decreasing a lot. I guess he can't stand the idea of someone who disagree with his opinions...

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    • Wesker1984 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Perfect Ceru wrote:

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.

      That is the saddest response I've ever seen.

      So true, bro. His level of stupidity is becoming higher and his credibility is decreasing a lot. I guess he can't stand the idea of someone who disagree with his opinions...

      I am not worried by the least by the assumptions of beings below my rank.

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    • Perfect Ceru wrote:

      Wesker1984 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Perfect Ceru wrote:

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.

      That is the saddest response I've ever seen.
      So true, bro. His level of stupidity is becoming higher and his credibility is decreasing a lot. I guess he can't stand the idea of someone who disagree with his opinions...
      I am not worried by the least by the assumptions of beings below my rank.

      Your rank of what, delusion?

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Perfect Ceru wrote:

      Wesker1984 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote:
      Perfect Ceru wrote:

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.

      That is the saddest response I've ever seen.
      So true, bro. His level of stupidity is becoming higher and his credibility is decreasing a lot. I guess he can't stand the idea of someone who disagree with his opinions...
      I am not worried by the least by the assumptions of beings below my rank.

      Your rank of what, delusion?

      Mankind.

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    • Your mankind rank? So you're saying different people have different ranks. You sound like you're in favor of a certain German party's version of eugenics. 

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    • NervousShipper wrote: Your mankind rank? So you're saying different people have different ranks. You sound like you're in favor of a certain German party's version of eugenics. 

      It has nothing to do with genetics nor race, you're just inferior human being, I am just stating what I observe.

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    • Then you need to improve your observational skills. You missed an "an" and an accurate assessment of any of the people here.

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    • I didn't used an "an" as I didn't wanted to specify you.

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    • Then you should have added an "s" to being.

      Also, didn't is past tense so it should be "didn't use" and "didn't want"

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      Steelspur111 wrote:

      I don't think this is a case of Super having bad writing.

      It's a case of Super having things that are stupid to you.

      The problem is, it does have bad writing, even in Dragon Ball standards. 

      The characters don't really have a character arc, especially Goku and Vegeta. They both are one-dimensional and unlikable characters, Goku especially. Even in the dub, I hate this new Goku and even though I liked FighterZ, one of the things that ruined it is this new Goku because they Toei has to use the old "Goku is dumb" joke as much as every modern comedy movie overuses fart jokes. This Goku is the most incompetant, boring, and insulting version of Goku ever, even GT Goku wasn't this dumb and if he was it was for gag purposes and it does a somewhat good job in doing that. For a series that isn't really a gag series anymore, it has a lot of jokes, and these jokes are hardly funny AT ALL. Goku is not the same Goku from Z at all as he seems to forget stuff A LOT and does some of the most retarded things ever cough thinking Beerus is Monaka even though he has the same ki as Beerus and the costume is ripped showing Beerus' appendages, and is somewhat taller cough. And for Vegeta, he gets this Drax treatment where this tragic warrior turns into a joke type. What Vegeta is used or besides fighting is not character development like before, NO that would ridiculous, let's just use him as this stoic character but thinking something weird inside. HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! THAT'S SO FUNNY!!! Yeah, the writing is Super is just so awful, it has no character arcs like before, the characters don't really seem to develop with their power instead if not suddely gaining it take a backseat to Goku or Vegeta. And this is just the beginning of the problems.

      It's not worse than GT you are just exgatterned geez dude calm down just watch the last two episodes and read the manga already jeez before you make judgment.Because they already complete their cahracter arcs already in DBZ.

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    • that's so cool man

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    • 17 is the MVP. He's my favourite character and would kick super 17's ass

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    • Perfect Ceru wrote:

      Wesker1984 wrote: to nickname Dragon Ball Super "Dragon Ball Stupid", do you agree?

      Nope but i agree with my friend to call you stupid and childish. But hey maybe it come from our innability to understand haters and/or whinners.

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.

      hahahaha dude holy s***.

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    • TeamUnitedNerds wrote:

      Perfect Ceru wrote:

      Wesker1984 wrote: to nickname Dragon Ball Super "Dragon Ball Stupid", do you agree?

      Nope but i agree with my friend to call you stupid and childish. But hey maybe it come from our innability to understand haters and/or whinners.

      I couldn't care any less about people who are inferior to me.
      hahahaha dude holy shit

      D***

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    • RnR

      I don't know, the show seems okay to me.

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    • Vegeta is Prideful because he's a Saiyan prince not cocky.
      Either way they knew Jiren was strong which is why the both Goku and Vegeta wanted to fight Jiren even though he was that strong. Those are base on Saiyan instinct the instinct of wanting to fight stronger people. People like you keep forgetting about that.

      Pikkon really? Why do you think that in DBZ Kai there wasn't an otherworld arc? That's because Pikkon is not canon! For fuck sake. Just like how the Grand Kai is not canon as well!

      Why do people like you cry about it so much to the point that they forgot that most of the arcs in DBZ are not canon? Which is why DBZ Kai's episodes where vastly shorten compared to how DBZ was at first. DBZ Kai was there so that there isn't any single FILLER EPISODES!

      And it was even stated by Akira Toriyama that he wouldn't bother with power levels anymore. Why are people forgetting about important info such as this? It was in an interview that Akira Toriyama did stating such words.

      If you are expecting deep level of writing from Akira Toriyama who is supposedly to be retired from the industry then you really need some help.

      And this entire thread by you is simply just redundant.

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    • I feel it's full of Wasted Potential that could have been used and instead, relied on the overused forumula for plots and battles that Z used, to the point that it feels like new arcs of Z rather then a show that defines itself as something new and different then Z was. All these God powers ups just feel like they're the regualar Super Saiyan forms with a new coat of paint on them.

      Because of this and the fact it feels rushed, I give it a C.

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    • At least there's some change, every namekian piccolo absorbs doesn't change him at all.

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    • Dragon Ball Super was SUPER rushed OR SUPER dragged (depends on the arc).

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    • Will the 4 universes that didn't participate in the ToP ever be explored? Will the past of Universe 6 like Cabba, Frost Hit ever be explored in a new series? Will Zalama ever be seen? Can Jiren's full history be shown? 

      Can Universes 13 to 18 ever be shown before they were erased?

      Will Goten and Trunks ever star in their own full arcs that doesn't have Goku in them?

      So many posibilities for them to explore that Super has created, but will be outright ignored to give Goku, another movie that will use the same old formula that was used in almost every z movie.

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    • 0551E80Y wrote:
      Will the 4 universes that didn't participate in the ToP ever be explored? Will the past of Universe 6 like Cabba, Frost Hit ever be explored in a new series? Will Zalama ever be seen? Can Jiren's full history be shown? 

      Can Universes 13 to 18 ever be shown before they were erased?

      Nope.

      0551E80Y wrote: Will Goten and Trunks ever star in their own full arcs that doesn't have Goku in them?

      Well, maybe we'll get lucky and we'll get one set ten years later where they reach SSj4 and fall in love.

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    • Fala pessoal! queria pedir um apoio para meu site de anime ANIMEONLINE . BIZ . Está novinho e levei +6 messes para catalogar mais de 1000 animes. Uma loucura, mas acho que ficou top, liso e sem nenhum anúncio. 
      Quem quiser fazer parceria ou trocar ideia só me chamar.

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    • Perfect Ceru wrote:

      SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      And I totally agree. I can even say this series us more awful than GT. I mean seriously, the Universe Survival Saga is when they completely throw logic out of the window.

      The feats and messed up power scaling are a big issue with DBS, at least in DBZ you could feel when a character's strength progressed or dropped, here any character can grow insanely stronger within a RIDICOLOUSLY short amount of time even if this character had quit training years/decades ago without even the age factor limiting them in the background.

      Let's just ignore that in GT that SSJ4 Goku struggled to lift a building.....

      tHat IS rEaLly LOgiCal.

      Seriously, you complain that Super has inconsistent feats when GT was even worse when it regarded tp this.

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    • About making 17 "so cool and powerful" - That's just lame writing-wise, it just shows that Toriyama and Toei were too lazy to come up with new characters who could've been portrayed as strong as Androids 17 and 18 were in this arc, but they chose to take the easy path of resurrecting Frieza for a day (was better to resurrect a good dead fighter if you ask me, Pikkon included - he's Toriyama's creation after all, filler or not) and bring the Androids we fans know and love and just shove them WAAAY higher on the power scaling and expect us to just "deal with this".

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    • Spinopharoah wrote:

      Let's just ignore that in GT that SSJ4 Goku struggled to lift a building.....

      tHat IS rEaLly LOgiCal.

      Seriously, you complain that Super has inconsistent feats when GT was even worse when it regarded tp this.

      How? You only gave one example, I can give you WAYYY more than that. Super has: Goku Black gets Super Saiyan Rosé for almost no reason in the anime

      Future Trunks using a Spirit Bomb of 10 people and killing Fused Zamasu, whose strong enough to take Vegito's FULL POWER FINAL KAMEHAMEHA

      Krillin somehow managing to keep up in a beam struggle with SUPER SAIYAN BLUE GOKU

      Kale as a Legendary Super Saiyan, which is a form stated to be WEAKER THAN A SULER SAIYAN 2, was able to ragdoll Goku in SUPER SAIYAN 2 AND SUPER SAIYAN BLUE even though base Kale could not even take on Methiop.

      Fatigued Goku somehow increasing and recovering his power without resting in a few minutes and transforming into power taxing forms like Super Saiyan 3, Blue, AND KAIO-KEN

      Kefla able to take on Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, and Super Saiyan Kaio-ken Goku and is also somehow as powerful as the Universe 7's Spirit Bomb

      Base Goku getting harmed BY BULLETS

      And last, and most famous: Saiyan beyond God/Super Saiyan Blue Goku getting harmed by A LASER.

      So you're telling me you ignore ALL OF THOSE yet complain about ssj4 Goku struggling to lift up a city and say that GT has more problems? What else do they have besides Super 17's gax that are nit well, Goku getting harmed by glass, and his change?

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    • Spinopharoah wrote:

      Let's just ignore that in GT that SSJ4 Goku struggled to lift a building.....

      tHat IS rEaLly LOgiCal.

      Seriously, you complain that Super has inconsistent feats when GT was even worse when it regarded tp this.

      SSJ4 struggles lifting a building. SSJ Goku's punch sends Super 17 flying to Earth's corner yet some alien worms can take a kamehameha from Base Goku, in fact, he had to resort on throwing them into some asteroid walls. By GT's logic, grabbing and throwing someone >> Kamehameha

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    • Skar800 wrote:

      Spinopharoah wrote:

      Let's just ignore that in GT that SSJ4 Goku struggled to lift a building.....

      tHat IS rEaLly LOgiCal.

      Seriously, you complain that Super has inconsistent feats when GT was even worse when it regarded tp this.

      SSJ4 struggles lifting a building. SSJ Goku's punch sends Super 17 flying to Earth's corner yet some alien worms can take a kamehameha from Base Goku, in fact, he had to resort on throwing them into some asteroid walls. By GT's logic, grabbing and throwing someone >> Kamehameha

      Skar you just nitpicking AGAIN.

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    • Skar800 wrote:
      Spinopharoah wrote:

      Let's just ignore that in GT that SSJ4 Goku struggled to lift a building.....

      tHat IS rEaLly LOgiCal.

      Seriously, you complain that Super has inconsistent feats when GT was even worse when it regarded tp this.

      SSJ4 struggles lifting a building. SSJ Goku's punch sends Super 17 flying to Earth's corner yet some alien worms can take a kamehameha from Base Goku, in fact, he had to resort on throwing them into some asteroid walls. By GT's logic, grabbing and throwing someone >> Kamehameha

      if you know about gt goku got turned into a kid as they state enough of times goku is weaker due to being a kid and cant hold transformations as long and from my option ssj4 goes beyond the power of shenron which has been a thing since db but this was ultimate shenron the power of going ssj4 broke the power of shenron while in the form so yes it is consisttant yet super has gohan from sbase super buu level at least to maybe  a quarter of goku 

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    • Missy0124 wrote:

      if you know about gt goku got turned into a kid as they state enough of times goku is weaker due to being a kid and cant hold transformations as long and from my option ssj4 goes beyond the power of shenron which has been a thing since db but this was ultimate shenron the power of going ssj4 broke the power of shenron while in the form so yes it is consisttant yet super has gohan from sbase super buu level at least to maybe  a quarter of goku 

      Ok, SSJ4 is an adult and the trump card at the moment, why does Goku struggle lifting a building on that form?

      But going back to kid Goku it's still hilarious because he is supposed to be weaker yet he managed to land such a massive blow on Super 17 that neither the likes of SSJ2 Vegeta or SSJ Gohan managed to do.

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    • vegeta and gohan have not trained in many years do to becoming family men and thus have become weaker as well remember this is not db kid goku who did not know many techniques plus vegeta has acepted the fact that goku's stronger in the buu saga but gt remembers his character arc but no lets bring back saiyan saga vegeta with normal vegeta remories because you know you cant have a friendy rival thats why people dont like they forget about major plot points and character arcs that happened 

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    • Missy0124 wrote:
      vegeta and gohan have not trained in many years do to becoming family men and thus have become weaker as well 

      Gohan has actually trained for a long time before the events of GT. The Perfect Files and some of Gohan's diologue during the Super 17 Saga proves that.

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      Missy0124 wrote:
      vegeta and gohan have not trained in many years do to becoming family men and thus have become weaker as well 
      Gohan has actually trained for a long time before the events of GT. The Perfect Files and some of Gohan's diologue during the Super 17 Saga proves that.

      Still didn't do much.

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    • Skar800 wrote:

      Ok, SSJ4 is an adult and the trump card at the moment, why does Goku struggle lifting a building on that form?

      But going back to kid Goku it's still hilarious because he is supposed to be weaker yet he managed to land such a massive blow on Super 17 that neither the likes of SSJ2 Vegeta or SSJ Gohan managed to do.

      Seriously man, that's how low you would like to go? Did you even watch GT? All I'm seeing from you now is just nitpicking on GT and not showing me how this shows that the power scaling is worse than Super. He is shown to be even more powerful than when he was back in Z, and is shown to be more powerful than Z Goku's Super Saiyan 3 state.

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      Skar800 wrote:

      Ok, SSJ4 is an adult and the trump card at the moment, why does Goku struggle lifting a building on that form?

      But going back to kid Goku it's still hilarious because he is supposed to be weaker yet he managed to land such a massive blow on Super 17 that neither the likes of SSJ2 Vegeta or SSJ Gohan managed to do.

      Seriously man, that's how low you would like to go? Did you even watch GT? All I'm seeing from you now is just nitpicking on GT and not showing me how this shows that the power scaling is worse than Super. He is shown to be even more powerful than when he was back in Z, and is shown to be more powerful than Z Goku's Super Saiyan 3 state.

      I watched GT all of it and SSj4 goku is cool but still got jobbed by Super 17 and Omega shenron. 

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    • just cause someone gets a new form doest mean that they are deus ex machina like gogeta 

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    • This post is Very Ball Stupid (tm).

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    • ok roshi just turned planet to universe level or galaxy at least when he was planet 

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    • baby is a joke without posseion 

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    • he only hot that stong due to posseion vegeta same goes with black zamas held his own due to black's support as well as being inmortal 

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      not showing me how this shows that the power scaling is worse than Super.

      Why you assume just because I'm noticing your precious GT's power scale is bs (to say the least) I think Super's is any better? especially the anime version.

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    • zamas nothing without black or resurection he could not even haddle sjj goku adult baby had sjj3 wipe him out even then when he had the ultimate form wipe him out  lets go for the same idea done wrong copy vegeta both are vegeta but one is its own character other is a clone a evil clone with same power apperce and personality baby is a tuffle who created a sceientist to do his bidding behind the scenes because he wants revenge for killing his people the tuffles dr myuu was created to create a more powerful body to inhabit well as getting the energy to do so but the commensan is weapon that posses people 

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    • plus there is no point in watching the first parts of each show super's reason its a rehash at bog and ressurection of f and gt just skip to the baby saga cause nothing happens till then

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    • Missy0124 wrote: plus there is no point in watching the first parts of each show super's reason its a rehash at bog and ressurection of f and gt just skip to the baby saga cause nothing happens till then

      I actually enjoyed the "Black Star Dragon Balls Saga". It had Ledgic, Zoonama, Luud and M2 in it.

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    • I personally don't like the Black Star Dragon Balls Saga due to the fact that while we're supposed to think that it's another good old Dragon Ball hunt for the Dragon Balls, but this ominous feeling of the Earth going to explode that kills the tone.

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    • Chief Of Staff Top wrote:

      Missy0124 wrote: plus there is no point in watching the first parts of each show super's reason its a rehash at bog and ressurection of f and gt just skip to the baby saga cause nothing happens till then

      I actually enjoyed the "Black Star Dragon Balls Saga". It had Ledgic, Zoonama, Luud and M2 in it.

      and that saga did what to the plot besides eltsiblish the next arc witch is baby's arc 

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    • Missy0124 wrote:

      Chief Of Staff Top wrote:

      Missy0124 wrote: plus there is no point in watching the first parts of each show super's reason its a rehash at bog and ressurection of f and gt just skip to the baby saga cause nothing happens till then

      I actually enjoyed the "Black Star Dragon Balls Saga". It had Ledgic, Zoonama, Luud and M2 in it.

      and that saga did what to the plot besides eltsiblish the next arc witch is baby's arc 

      Expended our knowledge of the universe. It had been a while since the Frieza Saga.

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    • Spinopharoah wrote:
      I personally don't like the Black Star Dragon Balls Saga due to the fact that while we're supposed to think that it's another good old Dragon Ball hunt for the Dragon Balls

      It tried to make the first part of the story feel like the old Dragon Ball which I think it's good except it sucks because GT took it way to far to the point of having situations where the trio runs away from some alien tiger. Remember, we're talking about a ssj3, a ssj and a girl who is still half alien with abnormal strength, not to mention all three can fly! those situations worked back in DB because Goku was unexperienced and didn't have the same techniques as an adult.

      A good way of paying tributes to the original is what Super did in the Tournament of Power, for example Roshi's line "Move well, learn well, play well, eat well and rest well!" which is a reference to what he said in DB or Krillin using a foul strategy against Majora, the same way he did against Bacterian in the first tournament.

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    • Skar800 wrote:

      It tried to make the first part of the story feel like the old Dragon Ball which I think it's good except it sucks because GT took it way to far to the point of having situations where the trio runs away from some alien tiger. Remember, we're talking about a ssj3, a ssj and a girl who is still half alien with abnormal strength, not to mention all three can fly! those situations worked back in DB because Goku was unexperienced and didn't have the same techniques as an adult.

      A good way of paying tributes to the original is what Super did in the Tournament of Power, for example Roshi's line "Move well, learn well, play well, eat well and rest well!" which is a reference to what he said in DB or Krillin using a foul strategy against Majora, the same way he did against Bacterian in the first tournament.

      Well yeah, that's an actual critism, thank you! But about the second paragraph, I feel like sometimes Super really needs to make the difference between referencing and rehashing because man, in the ToP there are quite a lot. Kale vs Goku, Goku vs Jiren Round 1, Vegeta firing the Final Flash, from that point it was no longer paying tributes, it was just ripping off (an exaggeration but you know what I mean).

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      0551E80Y wrote:
      Will the 4 universes that didn't participate in the ToP ever be explored? Will the past of Universe 6 like Cabba, Frost Hit ever be explored in a new series? Will Zalama ever be seen? Can Jiren's full history be shown? 

      Can Universes 13 to 18 ever be shown before they were erased?

      Nope.


      0551E80Y wrote: Will Goten and Trunks ever star in their own full arcs that doesn't have Goku in them?

      Well, maybe we'll get lucky and we'll get one set ten years later where they reach SSj4 and fall in love.

      Why keep on mentioning SSJ4? It won't ever happen! GT is not canon, end on story. Even Akira Toriyama stated by himself that anything Saga/Arcs from GT won't be brought over to Super.

      Pan, Bra/Bulla and Uub are canon but it doesn't mean that SSJ4 will be there. That form isn't practical to begin with. Since both Goten and Trunks don't even have their tails to even achieve the Oozaru form. Why do people not remember that at all?

      But I can understand if wanting specific spin-off for the other characters. Mentioning about SSJ4 here won't make Akira Toriyama agree to having SSJ4 in Super.

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    • Chief Of Staff Top wrote:
      About making 17 "so cool and powerful" - That's just lame writing-wise, it just shows that Toriyama and Toei were too lazy to come up with new characters who could've been portrayed as strong as Androids 17 and 18 were in this arc, but they chose to take the easy path of resurrecting Frieza for a day (was better to resurrect a good dead fighter if you ask me, Pikkon included - he's Toriyama's creation after all, filler or not) and bring the Androids we fans know and love and just shove them WAAAY higher on the power scaling and expect us to just "deal with this".

      In the end Pikkion is still filler whether you like it or not. He will not be brought back.

      It's AT's way of lazy writting can't expect much from someone that's supposedly to be retired from the animu business. Plus Toei is like literal crap either way. So you can't blame too much on AT when Toei is the one at fault for controlling the budgets.

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    • Solution for 2nd thing about Golden Frieza Saga:

      POWER LEVELS WERE IRRELEVANT SINCE THE FRIEZA SAGA

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    • Honestly, I somewhat agree.

      Especially the power scaling.

      And why'd they use Frieza instead of Future Trunks for the UT Saga is beyond me...

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    • XenonKirito wrote: In the end Pikkion is still filler whether you like it or not. He will not be brought back.

      Ignoring the fact that one flying bug that works for King Kai is also filler yet he appears in Super.

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    • Tailsman67 wrote:
      Honestly, I somewhat agree.

      Especially the power scaling.

      And why'd they use Frieza instead of Future Trunks for the UT Saga is beyond me...

      Because time travel is illegal and U7 doesn't want any more attention brought on them

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Tailsman67 wrote:
      Honestly, I somewhat agree.

      Especially the power scaling.

      And why'd they use Frieza instead of Future Trunks for the UT Saga is beyond me...

      Because time travel is illegal and U7 doesn't want any more attention brought on them

      Well sure, but they'd have to find out first.

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    • It wouldn't be at all difficult especially when they're actively looking for reasons to fck U7 over

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    • True...

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    • I came here to have a good time and a good time am I having! DBS is a slightly more shallow, slightly less consistent, roaring good time, and I love that Akira Toriyama is leaning into his origins as a gag mangaka. 

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    • They could've done it better NO DOUBT.  The power scaling was off and the series felt very rushed. I wouldn't mind more filler episodes with Jaco, Trunks and Goten exploring the universe.

      I also wouldn't midn if they had gave us a filler episode before the Resurrection 'F' arc where Gohan and Videl are catching up with Sharpner and Erasa, it could have been that in this episode Champa and Vados made their debuts as silhouettes while Gurana and his crew discovered a Super Dragon Ball, only to be erased shortly after.

      An episode where Goku, Gohan and Goten go to visit Grndpa Gohan before the Zen-Exhibition Match would've been nice.

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    • Rofus1 wrote:
      The power scaling was off.

      Tell me about it, how annoying was SSB usage during the first half of the Tournament. Goku apparently needs his strongest form (atm) to break out of some U4 fodder grip, just for that, funny thing that same enemy got one shotted by Vegeta in the manga.

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    • Perfect Ceru wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: Your mankind rank? So you're saying different people have different ranks. You sound like you're in favor of a certain German party's version of eugenics. 

      It has nothing to do with genetics nor race, you're just inferior human being, I am just stating what I observe.

      You're a narcissitic fool.

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    • Skar800 wrote:
      Rofus1 wrote:
      The power scaling was off.
      Tell me about it, how annoying was SSB usage during the first half of the Tournament. Goku apparently needs his strongest form (atm) to break out of some U4 fodder grip, just for that, funny thing that same enemy got one shotted by Vegeta in the manga.

      I know, and worse of all it was just Base Vegeta in the manga who took out both Nink and Katopesla without any troubles. Made the anime look like a liar.

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    • Or it was the manga that got it wrong, as it so often does in the case of super

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Or it was the manga that got it wrong, as it so often does in the case of super

      Could be.

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    • XenonKirito wrote:

      Pikkon really? Why do you think that in DBZ Kai there wasn't an otherworld arc? That's because Pikkon is not canon! For fuck sake. Just like how the Grand Kai is not canon as well!

      Why do people like you cry about it so much to the point that they forgot that most of the arcs in DBZ are not canon? Which is why DBZ Kai's episodes where vastly shorten compared to how DBZ was at first. DBZ Kai was there so that there isn't any single FILLER EPISODES!

      However Pikkon was re-used in Dragon Ball Z Kai, he and the rest of the Grand Kai Fighters appeared in the filler scenes used for the episodes about the fights with Super Buu and Kid Buu.

      Animedia, September 2017 issue DaymzmKW4AI1AuF

      Animedia, September 2017 issue. Pikkon (like Yamcha) is stated there in the text there among the candidates/fan-favorites before Frieza was announced.

      ​​​​​​And according to Animedia's September 2017 issue, Pikkon was voted among Japanese fans to be the 10th member for Team Universe 7 before it was revealed Frieza will come back.

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    • Y'all are dumb.

      It's a kid's show. Dragon Ball has always always always been dumb. Always. That's the point.

      "Filler" doesn't exist.

      The anime and the manga exist in their own continuities. There's none of this "canon" crap where the anime is unfortunately not canon. Stop fetishizing the manga so much, and treat the manga and the anime as two halves of a whole, as the creators ACTUALLY intended.

      I don't know why non-Japanese Dragon Ball fans are so much worse about this than non-Japanese fans of anything else. Even Full Metal Alchemist fans aren't this annoying. Get over yourselves.

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    • Despatche wrote:

      I don't know why non-Japanese Dragon Ball fans are so much worse about this than non-Japanese fans of anything else. Even Full Metal Alchemist fans aren't this annoying. Get over yourselves.

      Full Metal Alchemist (2003) is non-canon tho.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote:
      Despatche wrote:

      I don't know why non-Japanese Dragon Ball fans are so much worse about this than non-Japanese fans of anything else. Even Full Metal Alchemist fans aren't this annoying. Get over yourselves.

      Full Metal Alchemist (2003) is non-canon tho.

      We're not the one who need to get over ourselves though, since you're wrong.

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    • There is so much ignorance within the original post. Some of the "reasons" you addressed concerning DBS's writing are nothing more than just some diatribe over some 'trivial' matter. Some aspects or elements introduced with the series are not worth even whining over, nevertheless, have a deep discussion about (i.e. Black's dimensional rift). And some features are just for cinematic purposes, such Goku's and Beerus' dragon-clad auras. 

      Second, some points you brought had already been answered in and throughout the series. You had either: 1) not have been paying attention to explanations and statement given by characters/side characters (a case with 90% of the fanbase; being more focused on fights and action, than the explanations/reason given when something out of the ordinary pops up). Then you whine when something seems "off" or go completely unexpected, disregarding the possible reasons given or factors that lead up to it. Or 2) one of the types who just love to nitpick every single the from the show and being overly critical, thus ruining the show and for everybody who's simply trying to enjoy it for what it is. 

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:

      Skar800 wrote:

      Spinopharoah wrote:

      Let's just ignore that in GT that SSJ4 Goku struggled to lift a building.....

      tHat IS rEaLly LOgiCal.

      Seriously, you complain that Super has inconsistent feats when GT was even worse when it regarded tp this.

      SSJ4 struggles lifting a building. SSJ Goku's punch sends Super 17 flying to Earth's corner yet some alien worms can take a kamehameha from Base Goku, in fact, he had to resort on throwing them into some asteroid walls. By GT's logic, grabbing and throwing someone >> Kamehameha
      Skar you just nitpicking AGAIN.

      So when people point out problems with GT it's, "nitpicking", but it's not when you do exactly the same thing with Super? You make Zamasu's hypocrisy look like rational thought.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Meshifuari Arimota wrote:
      Despatche wrote:

      I don't know why non-Japanese Dragon Ball fans are so much worse about this than non-Japanese fans of anything else. Even Full Metal Alchemist fans aren't this annoying. Get over yourselves.

      Full Metal Alchemist (2003) is non-canon tho.
      We're not the one who need to get over ourselves though, since you're wrong.

      Why have you quoted me, qouting him? Was the response to me or to him?  I'm lost...

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      17 is the MVP. He's my favourite character and would kick super 17 
      what do you like about his character besides that he is the mvp of top and he beat jiren with goku and frieza
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    • He's sexy

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    • Missy0124 wrote:
      NervousShipper wrote:
      17 is the MVP. He's my favourite character and would kick super 17 
      what do you like about his character besides that he is the mvp of top and he beat jiren with goku and frieza

      (Round Two, I typed this up and somehow it just vanished when I hit reply)



      Personally it's a mix of a couple different things. For one, I dig the Creepy Twin trope in horror and other mediums. It's cool how 17 & 18 feel like two halves to a whole, working in tandem to dismantle their enemies, like they are connected on an almost psychokinetic level, a la The Shining.


      Also, they are thematically resonant with Dr. Gero. Where Gero might represent Soviet Russia and the Red Ribbon Army could mirror the Eastern Front, the 17 & 18 are the rejection of Communism and any form of government, and fully embody (at least thematically) the concept of Anarchy. They have no goals or objectives, they are creating chaos and destroying order. 

      Lastly, there is something lost with the times in the design, especially as younger viewer lose context for the time it was created. 17 & 18 are very, VERY Punk Rock. When the manga & anime were being released Punk Rock was still a huge counter cultural movement. Rejection of societal norms and a general sense of rebellion, which I imagine was pretty impactful in Japan due to the country's general fixation on etiquette.



      Anyway, that's why I love 17 & 18 so much. They work well on a bunch of different levels, be it nostalgia or their being thematically resonant. It just all works. I've overthought this into the ground so I'M OUT! 

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    • Rofus1 wrote:

      However Pikkon was re-used in Dragon Ball Z Kai, he and the rest of the Grand Kai Fighters appeared in the filler scenes used for the episodes about the fights with Super Buu and Kid Buu.

      Here are the proofs:
      Marikoh, Olibu, Pikkon, Torbie, Krillin and Yamcha, DBZ KAI 158

      Pikkon notices Kid Buu for the first time in DBZ Kai

      King Kai, Yamcha. Krillin, West Kai, Olibu and Pikkon in DBZ KAI 158

      Pikkon after being defeated by Kid Buu

      West Kai and injured Pikkon in DBZ KAI 158

      Pikkon sits injured behind his master, West Kai

      King Kai, Yamcha. Krillin, West Kai, Olibu and Pikkon sense the Kaioshin Realm in DBZ KAI 158

      Pikoon see the fight against Kid Buu via West Kai

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    • Proof is its own plural.. Anyway. Filler isn't proof.

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    • Well said SFGamer. Dam what ever happened to just sitting back and just enjoying the show. Some of you look way to deep into shit and by doing so cant ever enjoy anything. i love DB super. And this is coming from a life long fan of DBZ of 25 years plus. Is it as good as Z or Dragon ball? No. doesnt mean i cant sit back and enjoy it. 

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Proof is its own plural.. Anyway. Filler isn't proof.

      LOL don't try to feel "superior" over people whose native tongue isn't English, and if it happened - it happened, u can't deny that. Gregory is still here. :)

      GregoryEp21
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    • Gregory got integrated into canon.

      Filler is non canon.

      If you see Gregory in a manga, then he's canon, but what he did in filler isn't.



      Example:

      If the scene with all the villains in hell from the anime filler in DBZ is canon, then why is Freeza trapped in a cocoon, with a mechanical face, years later?

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    • If that's your headcanon, that's fine.

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    • Headcanon is what people who don't wanna accept canon call their broken dreams.

      There's canon, and not canon. I got headcanon too that the God in Arale is Kami possessing Roshi, but it's never confirmed and non-canon at the end of the day.

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    • Whatever you say, dude. I respect your headcanon.

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    • What Rofus said is "if it happened - it happened, u can't deny that".

      He didn't say "to me, it happened" he didn't bring personal opinions into the argument. He's arguing canon and non-canon, and so am I. Please don't bring the notion of headcanon to the table when it wasn't invited.

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    • Please don't bring your headcanon to the table and I won't.

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    • Orion Invictus wrote:
      Please don't bring your headcanon to the table and I won't.

      When did I do so?

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    • Reply 96, at the very least.

      This may surprise you, but what you consider "canon" is not universal, and is not objective.

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    • Headcanon is fine, it's the fantasy place of people who aren't straight and male (and in America, white) can go to when they're tired of hack writers writing the same tired stories about the struggles of banging chicks and writing.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      Headcanon is fine, it's the fantasy place of people who aren't straight and male (and in America, white) can go to when they're tired of hack writers writing the same tired stories about the struggles of banging chicks and writing.

      WTF.

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    • A FANDOM user
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