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  • Well, seeing as Super Saiyan Berserker is the canon adaptation of Super Saiyan B-Type(Legendary Super Saiyan) and there is NO actual difference at all between the forms shouldn't the two pages be merged? Besides the sparks she temporarily had when she first transformed.. there is literally no difference here and they have went through great lengths to show this.. even mimicing scenes and lines from the broly movies for example... What do you think?

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    • Hmm I agree it probably is the same form as the Legendary Super Saiyan.

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    • Kale also somewhat resembles Super Saiyan Second Grade

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    • There somewhat is. The Gigantic Impact, Kale's version of Eraser Cannon, looks slightly different as it potrays itself as a polka-dot green and white. Plus, her Beserk form is WAYYY more green than Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form. Not only the hair, but the aura as well. And no, canon isn't the right word to describe this form. It's the main timeline's version, not canon version because all the movies are from an alternate timeline.

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      There somewhat is. The Gigantic Impact, Kale's version of Eraser Cannon, looks slightly different as it potrays itself as a polka-dot green and white. Plus, her Beserk form is WAYYY more green than Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form. Not only the hair, but the aura as well. And no, canon isn't the right word to describe this form. It's the main timeline's version, not canon version because all the movies are from an alternate timeline.

      I really wish more people understood this. 

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    • Let's be honest,dragon ball lost even that bit of logic he had

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    • LinsonYale wrote: Let's be honest,dragon ball lost even that bit of logic he had

      I'm not even sure its worth debating which form is strogner

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      There somewhat is. The Gigantic Impact, Kale's version of Eraser Cannon, looks slightly different as it potrays itself as a polka-dot green and white. Plus, her Beserk form is WAYYY more green than Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form. Not only the hair, but the aura as well. And no, canon isn't the right word to describe this form. It's the main timeline's version, not canon version because all the movies are from an alternate timeline.

      Canon means main timeline, especially since there's a canon alternate timeline (Trunks') with an actual source for why it happened. The movies are basically elseworlds.

      Edit: I really wish more people understood this.

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    • I don't recall it ever being said that movies are elsewords.

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      There somewhat is. The Gigantic Impact, Kale's version of Eraser Cannon, looks slightly different as it potrays itself as a polka-dot green and white. Plus, her Beserk form is WAYYY more green than Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form. Not only the hair, but the aura as well. And no, canon isn't the right word to describe this form. It's the main timeline's version, not canon version because all the movies are from an alternate timeline.
      Canon means main timeline, especially since there's a canon alternate timeline (Trunks') with an actual source for why it happened. The movies are basically elseworlds.

      Edit: I really wish more people understood this.

      So you're saying that Timelines #4-7 are all non-canon? Stupid, just stupid. I stopped arguing in the other forum because I took a day off, and I figured out why people keep saying GT and the movies are non-canon but with some statement as stupid as this, you're basically signing up for war. So yeah, you call Timeline's #4-7 non-canon, even though they haven't interacted with the main timeline and yes, they do have a source, remeber this picture?

      Six Time Rings

      All timelines, except the Second Future Trunks one.

      That's is an example of other timelines not interacting with the main timeline but are clearly souced here! Like WTF? Are you guys the same people that edited the pages becasue what you're telling me is BS. Timline's #4-7 have no explanation for why it happened (except for 6, and 7, maybe 4) yet are clearly sourced right HERE! With the 7th timeline not created yet as Whis/Future Trunks did not create the one yet.

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    • They are in non-canon timelines. Simple enough.

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    • If something is said to be “non-canon” it means it never actually occurred in the manga chapters. So this goes for all filler episodes produced by Toei and all movies other than Battle of Gods and Resurrection of ‘F (stated as canon by Toriyama).

      idk why you bring that up about the alternate timelines from the anime being not canon when we had two arcs about Future Trunks' timeline, flashbacks of Cell's timeline and Black's timeline and mentions of Timeline 4 and now Timeline 7.

      And if all those stories and characters were meant to be in the DB Universe, then what's the point of introducing similar characters who tend to do obvious references to the movies? why not introduce the actual character in the main timeline?

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    • Kale is the U6 Broli, that is all she is. Broli in U7 obviously died as a baby on Planet Vegeta. Toyotaro and Toriyama wanted it this way. Broli in passing sense is canon believe it or not. her transformation IS the same as Broli's. There are a tad bit of cosmetic changes when it was added to the main canon.. but none the less it is literally the same.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Kale is the U6 Broli, that is all she is. Broli in U7 obviously died as a baby on Planet Vegeta. Toyotaro and Toriyama wanted it this way. Broli in passing sense is canon believe it or not. her transformation IS the same as Broli's. There are a tad bit of cosmetic changes when it was added to the main canon.. but none the less it is literally the same.

      I disagree with the idea that Broly died on Planet Vegeta. But that is just me.

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    • So you're saying that for some weird reason King Vegeta changed his mind in the main timeline, spared Broly and Paragus and therefore all perished on Planet Vegeta? hmmmmmm

      Not really sure without any statement about that and considering how powerful and unstable Broly was in the movie, there were highly chances that he could have survived with his shield.

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    • Hulk10
      Hulk10 removed this reply because:
      rude
      22:42, July 27, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • I was replying to QuakingStar

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    • Skar800 wrote: I was replying to QuakingStar

      Ok sorry. I removed my reply as it seemed too rude

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    • OK then if he didn't die.. then where is he? 

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    • Personally, I think Kale took his place in the canon material.

      I would say that if he existed in the main timeline as Kale's counterpart, he would probably be hiding with Paragus conquering planets and the reason why they never felt his presence was because he never met Goku again on New Planet Vegeta so Paragus never lose control on him.

      What ruins this however, is that Paragus clearly ordered Broly to cause a significant amount of destruction such as destroying the South Area, so it's hard to believe that King Kai or Shin would ignore this event and never mention it.

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    • Broly and Legendary Super Saiyan are not part of the main continuity. Kale and Berserker heavily take inspiration from Broly's LSSJ, but they are not the same thing and for now are still two different forms. The only way they will get merged is if Broly or the term "Legendary Super Saiyan" shows up in Dragon Ball Super to refer to the thing that Kale does.

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    • And as for merging the pages...see I wouldn't object probably because yeah, there's no official confirmation from Toriyama or Toyotaro but you don't need to be on their team to assume that "Super Saiyan Berserker" could be the U6 counterpart of Broly's "Super Saiyan B-Type" (what a stupid name tho).
      Because Frieza's transformation is called "Third Form" whereas Frost's equivalent is called "Assault Form".

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    • I imagine he was killed by Goku.

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    • Just picture Vegeta saying "He's the one... The Saiyan of B-Type!"

      "Dragon Ball Z: Broly - The Super Saiyan B-Type"

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    • Skar800 wrote:
      If something is said to be “non-canon” it means it never actually occurred in the manga chapters. So this goes for all filler episodes produced by Toei and all movies other than Battle of Gods and Resurrection of ‘F (stated as canon by Toriyama).

      idk why you bring that up about the alternate timelines from the anime being not canon when we had two arcs about Future Trunks' timeline, flashbacks of Cell's timeline and Black's timeline and mentions of Timeline 4 and now Timeline 7.

      And if all those stories and characters were meant to be in the DB Universe, then what's the point of introducing similar characters who tend to do obvious references to the movies? why not introduce the actual character in the main timeline?

      Dude, if Toei introduced Broly in the main timeline, not only would it not make sense - becasue he died - but no one would take Toei seriously anymore because everything about Broly's backstory and motives were written by a 12 year old but sadly is canon. I mean seriously, if they showed Broly in the main timeline, everyone would just stop watching their show. So they made their own character to get more money. We've seen this before in other franchises so why is this so arousing? Like where did this non-canon thing come from? I didn't hear anything from Toriyama saying "non-canon" at all. He said "side-story" as much as I know, which is another word for spin off. You know, shows about a topic such as a character, event, or place. I mean, in my eyes, the movies might possibly take place in Timeline 4, except for maybe Bojack Unbound, because most of the stuff in that timeline matches with the Main timeline - except for their Future Trunks being gone - barely mentioned by Cell. And the alternate timelines are indeed confirmed to exist in the manga as well. How, did this "non-canon" term in DB come to be?

      Time Rings in the manga 2

      The timelines confirmed in the manga.

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    • Toriyama originally planned to end Z with Frieza, but fans forced him to revive Goku and continue with Cell and once again, they wanted to revive Goku, giving birth to the Buu saga.
      That was when he got enough of DB and left open the possibility to continue the story (GT). Though he never literally said "this is part of the story", it's true that he called GT a side story.

      See, I think there wouldn't have been too much of a problem with the movies if Toei have made clear since the beginning that they took place in an alternate timeline (say Timeline 4) and ALL of them, because what we seem to have here is a mix between some movies that could fit in the main timeline and others that certainly not.

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    • Skar800 wrote: Toriyama originally planned to end Z with Frieza, but fans forced him to revive Goku and continue with Cell and once again, they wanted to revive Goku, giving birth to the Buu saga.
      That was when he got enough of DB and left open the possibility to continue the story (GT). Though he never literally said "this is part of the story", it's true that he called GT a side story.

      See, I think there wouldn't have been too much of a problem with the movies if Toei have made clear since the beginning that they took place in an alternate timeline (say Timeline 4) and ALL of them, because what we seem to have here is a mix between some movies that could fit in the main timeline and others that certainly not.

      As far as I'm concerned the movies could be part of the main timeline. Since there is no official word on that.

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    • You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

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    • NervousShipper wrote: You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

      Very funny.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

      Very funny.

      It is funny that you believe it could be the case, yes. Very few of the movies even make an effort to partially fit into the main timeline. Frankly, prior to release of the Battle of the Gods, only 1,5,9, and 13 had any chance of that. 

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    • Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

      Very funny.

      It is funny that you believe it could be the case, yes. Very few of the movies even make an effort to partially fit into the main timeline. Frankly, prior to release of the Battle of the Gods, only 1,5,9, and 13 had any chance of that. 

      Broly's debut movie can somewhat fit into the main timeline. At least in my opinion. Unfortunately it seems that its hard for some people to respect the opinions of others. Though I find it odd that Vegeta did not recognize Kale's form.

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    • Also I am still pondering the meaning of the erase word in the context of universal erase

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    • I also don't see how a Promotional Video classifies as a statement from a guidebook

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

      Very funny.
      It is funny that you believe it could be the case, yes. Very few of the movies even make an effort to partially fit into the main timeline. Frankly, prior to release of the Battle of the Gods, only 1,5,9, and 13 had any chance of that. 
      Broly's debut movie can somewhat fit into the main timeline. At least in my opinion. Unfortunately it seems that its hard for some people to respect the opinions of others. Though I find it odd that Vegeta did not recognize Kale's form.

      Everyone has a right to an opinion, opinions don't have the privilege of being above criticism.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:
      Though I find it odd that Vegeta did not recognize Kale's form.

      Not just Vegeta, but Goku, Piccolo, Krillin and everyone who had witnessed Broly's Legendary form (except Trunks), maybe because those events didn't happened...

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    • Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

      Very funny.
      It is funny that you believe it could be the case, yes. Very few of the movies even make an effort to partially fit into the main timeline. Frankly, prior to release of the Battle of the Gods, only 1,5,9, and 13 had any chance of that. 
      Broly's debut movie can somewhat fit into the main timeline. At least in my opinion. Unfortunately it seems that its hard for some people to respect the opinions of others. Though I find it odd that Vegeta did not recognize Kale's form.

      Only barely, if you ignore the facts that :

      - They wouldn't be holding a dang party in the middle of nowhere when Cell threatened the Earth (and the ten days prior to Cell games are the only time period in which it fits).

      - Gohan's powerlevel is neglectable compared to Cell Games where his MSSJ form easily matches his father's power (on the same grounds, Goku's normal form and SSJ are overpowered compared to Cooler and his ability to transform is too mitigated, making that movie's potential for fitting into the main timeline that much weaker). 

      - Nobody EVER mentions Broly from that point onward. 

      - Broly's whole character (as the Legendary Super Saiyan) is literally based on a fan misinterpretation of a manga passage.

      - Just as Movie 3, it piles up on the amount of surviving Saiyans.


      - Certain moments are heavily out of character and logic for some characters (Particularly Goku and Vegeta). 

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    • NervousShipper wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

      Very funny.
      It is funny that you believe it could be the case, yes. Very few of the movies even make an effort to partially fit into the main timeline. Frankly, prior to release of the Battle of the Gods, only 1,5,9, and 13 had any chance of that. 
      Broly's debut movie can somewhat fit into the main timeline. At least in my opinion. Unfortunately it seems that its hard for some people to respect the opinions of others. Though I find it odd that Vegeta did not recognize Kale's form.

      Everyone has a right to an opinion, opinions don't have the privilege of being above criticism.

      maybe

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    • Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: You handle the inconsistencies so well, you should turn it into a religion, Hulk

      Very funny.
      It is funny that you believe it could be the case, yes. Very few of the movies even make an effort to partially fit into the main timeline. Frankly, prior to release of the Battle of the Gods, only 1,5,9, and 13 had any chance of that. 
      Broly's debut movie can somewhat fit into the main timeline. At least in my opinion. Unfortunately it seems that its hard for some people to respect the opinions of others. Though I find it odd that Vegeta did not recognize Kale's form.

      Only barely, if you ignore the facts that :

      - They wouldn't be holding a dang party in the middle of nowhere when Cell threatened the Earth (and the ten days prior to Cell games are the only time period in which it fits).

      - Gohan's powerlevel is neglectable compared to Cell Games where his MSSJ form easily matches his father's power (on the same grounds, Goku's normal form and SSJ are overpowered compared to Cooler and his ability to transform is too mitigated, making that movie's potential for fitting into the main timeline that much weaker). 

      - Nobody EVER mentions Broly from that point onward. 

      - Broly's whole character (as the Legendary Super Saiyan) is literally based on a fan misinterpretation of a manga passage.

      - Just as Movie 3, it piles up on the amount of surviving Saiyans.


      - Certain moments are heavily out of character and logic for some characters (Particularly Goku and Vegeta). 

      How is Broly based on a fan misinterpretation?

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    • However lets not forget that Toriyama has never been terribly consistent, even in the main timeline

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    • Broly appears because fans believed a Legendary Super Saiyan is 'born every one thousand years', but suddenly many of them appeared and there was no explanation what happened to the legend.


      Vegeta originally states, in that misinterpreted line, something along the lines of 'The legendary Super Saiyan is so rare, the last one appeared a thousand years ago'. 


      Which is also why the dreadful piece of fanservice that is Kale is a new thing, not a 'legendary super saiyan'. 

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    • Venithil wrote: Broly appears because fans believed a Legendary Super Saiyan is 'born every one thousand years', but suddenly many of them appeared and there was no explanation what happened to the legend.


      Vegeta originally states, in that misinterpreted line, something along the lines of 'The legendary Super Saiyan is so rare, the last one appeared a thousand years ago'. 


      Which is also why the dreadful piece of fanservice that is Kale is a new thing, not a 'legendary super saiyan'. 

      I don't see your point. As the director of the film worked on Dragon Ball Z.

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    • Hulk10 wrote:I don't see your point. As the director of the film worked on Dragon Ball Z.

      Point is, movies are there to milk money out of the franchise, and if they don't have to correct the fans on a plot point they will use that plot point. Doubly so because they don't have to fully stick to the canon / main continuity. 


      Kale is literally Broly with boobs and her form isn't 'Legendary Super Saiyan', because every super saiyan is that. There is no special chosen one as far as that legend is concerned, but fans believed there was, and the questions sparked the character of Broly.


      If Broly was to be part of the main continuity or if the Legendary Super Saiyan was to fit in that continuity, they'd literally say 'That's Broly's form' or would outright state 'Kale is the legendary Super Saiyan that appears every thousand years'. Everything calls it something different, because the 1000 years thing as interpreted by fans was NOT what Vegeta stated. 

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    • Venithil wrote:

      Hulk10 wrote:I don't see your point. As the director of the film worked on Dragon Ball Z.

      Point is, movies are there to milk money out of the franchise, and if they don't have to correct the fans on a plot point they will use that plot point. Doubly so because they don't have to fully stick to the canon / main continuity. 


      Kale is literally Broly with boobs and her form isn't 'Legendary Super Saiyan', because every super saiyan is that. There is no special chosen one as far as that legend is concerned, but fans believed there was, and the questions sparked the character of Broly.


      If Broly was to be part of the main continuity or if the Legendary Super Saiyan was to fit in that continuity, they'd literally say 'That's Broly's form' or would outright state 'Kale is the legendary Super Saiyan that appears every thousand years'. Everything calls it something different, because the 1000 years thing as interpreted by fans was NOT what Vegeta stated. 

      You do have a point.

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    • First off, Legendary Super Saiyan was a name given to it.. the actual form of the name is Super Saiyan (B-type). Kale is quite literally using the exact form. Did you all not see the texts given for her? They almost always allude to Broli when talking about her. Why? Because just like how Kishi pulled Bardock into the main canon, Kishi and Toyotaro have pulled the Super Saiyan (B-type) form into the main canon. It's actually much simpler than people are trying to make it out to be.

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    • Man, curse the day they came out with those alternate names for Broly's forms, Super Saiyan (A-Type)? (B-Type)? (C-Type)? I'm surprised Bio-Broly's variant isn't called (D-Type).

      "Hey Kakarot, have you heard about the Super Saiyan B-Type? ༼ ºل͟º ༽

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    • Technically all they are is Super Saiyan the supplemental Daizenshuu didn't say they were offshoots but the same form, with different appearance.

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    • Hmm.. if that is the case then why would it have different attributes and powers? Is that all that was said about the form? no more descriptive and insightful info on it?

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    • NervousShipper wrote:
      SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      There somewhat is. The Gigantic Impact, Kale's version of Eraser Cannon, looks slightly different as it potrays itself as a polka-dot green and white. Plus, her Beserk form is WAYYY more green than Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form. Not only the hair, but the aura as well. And no, canon isn't the right word to describe this form. It's the main timeline's version, not canon version because all the movies are from an alternate timeline.
      Canon means main timeline, especially since there's a canon alternate timeline (Trunks') with an actual source for why it happened. The movies are basically elseworlds.

      Edit: I really wish more people understood this.

      I prob shouldn't bring this up but your statement contradicts itself. You say canon means main timeline, then state there are canon alternate timelines...

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    • as in that alternate timeline has its own internal canon. As in if a videogame or comicbook or actor statement contradicts what happened in the show in that timeline, it's not canon to that timeline.

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    • i think only kale hasaccess to this fom

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    • NervousShipper wrote: as in that alternate timeline has its own internal canon. As in if a videogame or comicbook or actor statement contradicts what happened in the show in that timeline, it's not canon to that timeline.

      Toriyama commented that the movies takes place in other dimensions.

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    • i hope someone knocks kale out

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    • New World God wrote:

      NervousShipper wrote: as in that alternate timeline has its own internal canon. As in if a videogame or comicbook or actor statement contradicts what happened in the show in that timeline, it's not canon to that timeline.

      Toriyama commented that the movies takes place in other dimensions.

      And? How does that contradict what happened in the movie?

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    • No hate but whoever is changing the names for kales super saiyan forms i.e "Super Saiyan Green" & "Uncontrollable Super Saiyan", please don't do that cause it's basically Super Saiyan (B Type) & Super Saiyan Berserk. Thank you & God bless 🙏

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    • MisterJay0623 wrote:
      No hate but whoever is changing the names for kales super saiyan forms i.e "Super Saiyan Green" & "Uncontrollable Super Saiyan", please don't do that cause it's basically Super Saiyan (B Type) & Super Saiyan Berserk. Thank you & God bless 🙏

      Sorry to break it to you, but Super Saiyan (B-Type) is the Legendary Super Saiyan form. The reason Super Saiyan Green was named that way is because of the new transformations' naming styles such as Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, and to a lesser extent, Golden Frieza. The name is to create the least speculation as possible since other forms' names sound really weird and after all, it really is looks like a regular Super Saiyan, but Green. And the reason for the Uncontrollable Super Saiyan name is because of Heroes. So blame Dimps, not us.

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    • SuperBen 1000000 wrote:
      MisterJay0623 wrote:
      No hate but whoever is changing the names for kales super saiyan forms i.e "Super Saiyan Green" & "Uncontrollable Super Saiyan", please don't do that cause it's basically Super Saiyan (B Type) & Super Saiyan Berserk. Thank you & God bless 🙏
      Sorry to break it to you, but Super Saiyan (B-Type) is the Legendary Super Saiyan form. The reason Super Saiyan Green was named that way is because of the new transformations' naming styles such as Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rosé, and to a lesser extent, Golden Frieza. The name is to create the least speculation as possible since other forms' names sound really weird and after all, it really is looks like a regular Super Saiyan, but Green. And the reason for the Uncontrollable Super Saiyan name is because of Heroes. So blame Dimps, not us.

      Oh I did not know that I'm sorry if I sounded like a jerk thank you for updating me on that :-)

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    • A FANDOM user
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