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  • I'm sure there is an easy answer to this, so I thought I'd find it quickest here. Why didn't Goku's innate ability to transform turn on from Vegeta's Blutz wave ball during the Vegeta Saga? I mean, Gohan grew his tail back and then transformed. I'm just curious why Goku couldn't/didn't do the same.

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    • Because Goku did not have a tail at the time as it was permanently removed by Kami before the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament.

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    • Yeah, Kami somehow made it so it wouldn't grow back.

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    • Goku no longer had the ability to regrow his tail. Either because he reached a certain age, or Kami performed delicate surgery.

      Vegeta's tail hadn't been cut off, but once it did he couldn't grow it back anyone because he passed the stage of tail regrowing.

      Though I never understood why senzu beans or the Frieza Force healing tanks didn't heal tails back.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      Goku no longer had the ability to regrow his tail. Either because he reached a certain age, or Kami performed delicate surgery.

      1.Hahahaha, that's bull****, the ONLY thing Toriyama said about saiyans' tails regrowing, is that once they're are strong enough they don't grow back (hell Vegeta clearly stated to the doctor, that his tail WILL grow back), so the tails NOT regrowning as adult is the same bull**** as the one year limit to wishing people back to life

      2.God : I'm gonna cut your tail now, Goku : Why? God : Becuase i'm a @$% God Goku : :( you really are Piccolo God : Bull****

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    • Well I read somewhere that Saiyans lose the ability to regrow it at some point in their life.

      They never mentioned in the show why the tails didn't grow back. Vegeta thought it would, but he was wrong, probably because he didn't know anyone who had their tail cut off.

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    • - That's what I was wondering, whether or not there is an official reason Goku's tail didn't just grow back--and then cause him to transform. It's seems like if anything could force it to, it would be the Blutz waves. If Toriyama said "once the character is strong enough--" then something's just not adding up for me. If I'm not mistaken, Gohan's power level (at Vegeta's arrival on Earth) was higher than Goku's was (at Raditz's arrival on Earth), and Gohan's tail grew back a second time. So for every full moon there was for all those years Goku's tail never grew back, even though he was technically weaker than Gohan at the second time his tail grew back.

      - What would make sense is what TyplosionX said about Kami somehow permanently removing the tail's ability to grow back. Is that official is what I'm asking, because I'm starting to venture off into fanon, trying to imagine why Goku (as a pureblood Saiyan) didn't even respond to the Blutz waves, especially with the stimulus so close to him.

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    • im fairly sure goku said kame had it removed for good. i remember bulma freaking out cuz it wasnt there.

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    • I think it's about natural limits, not about the individual power level. The point where the power boost that the tail provides is no longer significant, is where it stops growing back.

      Besides, Gohan's power level wasn't consistently higher than Goku. It was only higher in bursts of anger. Plus, Goku's tail probably would have grown back if it wasn't for Kami's special treatment.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      I think it's about natural limits, not about the individual power level. The point where the power boost that the tail provides is no longer significant, is where it stops growing back.

      Besides, Gohan's power level wasn't consistently higher than Goku. It was only higher in bursts of anger. Plus, Goku's tail probably would have grown back if it wasn't for Kami's special treatment.

      The first thing makes sense. And it just makes me curious, because I could understand if the adults with no tails never again looked at a full moon or weren't stimulated by Blutz waves in any way. But when a child, even a half Saiyan child at that, is stimulated there is such an extreme reaction that it could regrow a tail. I just assumed (like I said, just me drifting off into fanon) that even the adults would have something innate in them that would have to be triggered at some point.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      They never mentioned in the show why the tails didn't grow back. Vegeta thought it would, but he was wrong, probably because he didn't know anyone who had their tail cut off.

      I doubt that, Vegeta is the brains of the saiyans, he knew better

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    • I'm pretty sure the Blutz Waves stuff originated from GT. Tails growing back had nothing to do with the moon in DB or DBZ.

      Well from an evolutionary perspective, the tail growing back is probably a survival defense mechanism for juvenile Saiyans, as they are more vulnerable and less experienced. So will regrow their tail and gain the boost in power when their life is endangered.

      @BH Ouiji, keep in mind Vegeta lost his race when he was a kid. It's not out of the question that he never saw a tailless Saiyan who list the ability to regrow it. Vegeta probably thought he could grow it back because he grew it back before, but was unaware he no longer could.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      I'm pretty sure the Blutz Waves stuff originated from GT. Tails growing back had nothing to do with the moon in DB or DBZ.

      Well from an evolutionary perspective, the tail growing back is probably a survival defense mechanism for juvenile Saiyans, as they are more vulnerable and less experienced. So will regrow their tail and gain the boost in power when their life is endangered.

      @BH Ouiji, keep in mind Vegeta lost his race when he was a kid. It's not out of the question that he never saw a tailless Saiyan who list the ability to regrow it. Vegeta probably thought he could grow it back because he grew it back before, but was unaware he no longer could.

      As is necessary for most villains doomed to fail, Vegeta explains Blutz waves during his first fight with Goku in DBZ. And then all the kid Gohan stuff happened too. Speaking of GT, even though Baby Vegeta was heavily artificial, the only reason he could react to the waves was because of Vegeta's body. Even as an adult, there seems to be some point where a Saiyan's body makes some kind of reaction.

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    • I meant the information about Blutz Waves making the tail grow back. In DBZ, Blutz Waves only triggered the transformation. Unless the anime added this in (I only read the manga for the Saiyan Saga), it was never stated Gohan's tail regrew as a result of the Blutz Waves.

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    • Oh, I just figured it was heavily implied and discernible, since the only instances when Gohan's tail grew back were immediately after he was exposed to the waves. Why it doesn't happen for adults is what needs explanation.

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    • Well Goku's didn't grow back during Blutz Waves. It happened when he was about to lose to the Pterodactyl guy. It probably works similarly to the Super Saiyan, with both processes activated in moments of necessity, probably from an adrenaline rush.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      @BH, keep in mind Vegeta lost his race when he was a kid

      Hey he still has his younger brother

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    • BH Ouji wrote:
      Stryzzar wrote:
      @BH, keep in mind Vegeta lost his race when he was a kid
      Hey he still has his younger brother

      One that he doesn't care about.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      Well Goku's didn't grow back during Blutz Waves. It happened when he was about to lose to the Pterodactyl guy. It probably works similarly to the Super Saiyan, with both processes activated in moments of necessity, probably from an adrenaline rush.

      Maybe, yet the first time Gohan's tail regrew, he wasn't doing anything he hadn't done before. The only thing that differed in that particular moment to any other was the fake moon's presence. There does seem to be a difference in DB though. Z and GT both give a bit clearer explanations for how the tails work, but I still want to know why Goku didn't even respond to the stimulus and what exactly Kami did to him to cause it.

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    • You mean aside from Vegeta beating Gohan up, including putting a gash in his head where he was bleeding from? It could have happened earlier when the poor boy was getting scared throughout the battle with Nappa, but it happened where it happened to serve as the final Deus est Machina to finish off Vegeta, since the Kaio ken x4 Kamehameha and leftover Spirit Bomb didn't do the job.

      As for what Kami did. I'd say he removed the tail stump, which is usually what allows the tail to keep growing back. In Z, the various shots of Goku's ass shows he doesn't have the "second hole" that Vegeta and Gohan have.

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    • - No, I mean the first time Gohan's tail regrew. When he was training with Piccolo and getting beaten up, as he had been doing for months already. The only difference at that particular time, was the fake moon's presence. And if it were just about an adrenaline rush, especially from being beaten up, then his tail would've regrown a third time on Namek when Recoome was knocking his face in.

      - Also, the reason I wouldn't call Gohan transforming against Vegeta deus ex is, because not more than maybe 15 episodes before that Piccolo went through that whole thing with the fake moon. So, Vegeta explaining it was for the audience's "Aha!" moment. And Gohan returning to the battle was a pretty big clue what would happen next imo.

      - Even if you go with the tail stump thing, what are the Kais pulling on Goku's body in GT during the Baby Saga? It's as if Kami just magicked away Goku's ability to react to Blutz waves. It's something that really deserves an official explanation.

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    • Huh? Is this filler?

      My recollection Gohan only lost his tail once. He had his tail all the time before Raditz showed up. Then after Piccolo took him, he turned great ape, Piccolo destroyed the moon, and removed his tail. Then when Vegeta and Nappa arrived he was still tailless up until the fight with Vegeta where his tail grew back.

      By the point of Recoome, Gohan was already as strong as Vegeta back on Earth. So he probably passed the point where the tail was any help to him, and no longer needed to be regrown.

      Fair enough. I just meant it was set up to be the final big finisher to defeat Vegeta.

      GT was just a mess. That whole pulling out Goku's tail with tweezers never made sense IMO. Z had repeatedly shown Goku's stump had already gone.

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    • - Yea I guess if I include that time, then I'd have to include the time in TOM and I'm damn sure not going that route. Either way, Gohan was getting wrecked by Piccolo's training long before he was stronger than Vegeta, yet the one and only official instance in which he regrew the tail was immediately after exposure to the waves. If it was about getting beaten to a pulp, while being "weak enough" so to speak, then he would've transformed with Piccolo at some other point during training.

      - You want it to be funny? Or do you want it to make sense? Because seriously, with GT, you can't have both lol.

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    • True, but with Piccolo he wasn't scared for his life. Sure Piccolo was rough, but there was no imminent death threat.

      Well maybe Blutz Waves has something to do with it, but one thing I'm certain of is Toriyama never incorporated any connection Blutz Waves and tail regrowing in his source material. Toei went and added that themselves. Keep in mind, Goku's tail regrew without the moon being around.

      They could have done better than that, just saiyan.

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    • i think the second time that gohans tail grew was during the "Tree of Might" movie.

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    • Tree of Might doesn't fit in the timeline, the Z-fighters are still alive when Nappa had already killed them.

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    • dang multiverse 

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      Tree of Might doesn't fit in the timeline, the Z-fighters are still alive when Nappa had already killed them.

      So i geuss it takes place in a timeline in which Goku made it in time......don't ask how Piccolo jr is now a Vegeta tier thought

      Goku's 10 Kaioken can be explained, he trained

      If Tullece and his gang would fit, it would came when Goku was heading for namek (such a shame Gekishin Freeza doesn't have that option, instead we have Planet Kanassa)

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    • I wonder what happened to Vegeta in the Tree of Might timeline. Did he get killed by Goku with assistance from the Z-fighters, or did Goku decide to let him go?

      TFS had Vegeta still on Namek commenting how it was "so non-canon it hurts."

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      I wonder what happened to Vegeta in the Tree of Might timeline. Did he get killed by Goku with assistance from the Z-fighters, or did Goku decide to let him go?

      Toei logic - they hate him so they bring him for movie 6 and onward.

      Normal logic - A)He goes to namek to find the dragonballs B)He returned to Earth only to be killed by Goku who learned kaioken x10

      He did apeared in ARDBZ version of movie 3, killing Tullece

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    • I'm going with whatever TFS says.

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    • TFS does seem to do a better job at fixing the continuity and plotholes than Toei does.

      It would be interesting to see how Vegeta would fare against Frieza Force without the Earthlings.

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    • Slaphappyjoy wrote:
      I'm going with whatever TFS says.

      Would that include this?

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    • Everything except that.

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    • why? it makes perfect sense.

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    • Again. TFS's explanation of Multiverse theory isn't wrong, but the term "universe" is used differently within canon Dragon Ball.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      Again. TFS's explanation of Multiverse theory isn't wrong, but the term "universe" is used differently within canon Dragon Ball.

      you mean 'offical' dragon ball. the fact that there are  2 trunks in one universe right now. one with blue hair and another with purple proves it. akira's work.

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    • well technically they both can exist at the same time....

      as Whis Explained there are 12 Universes 1-6 with their sisters7-12... and a 13th Universe that contains all the other 12.... via Multiverse each and every decision a new Universe 13 is created...so technically both theorys have merit... In my opinion this is further validated when trunks came back from the future, where everyone was still dead...it would seem that whis and the other gods are able to travel between their perspective 13 Universes but not through the multiverse. *even though everytime Whis uses his temporal do over he creates a new multiverse.*

      Thoughts?

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    • I'll say this once more.

      In Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball. "Universes" and "timelines" are not the same thing.

      I know you're going to say that external media uses the terms interchangeably and are the same thing. But within Dragon Ball, "universes" only apply to those large masses of space designated 1 to 13. The realities created through time travel (Future Trunks' world, Cell's world) are referred to as "timelines".

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    • well i disagree with changing the term "Multiverse" to "Timelines". thats like changing the question to fit the answer... just malarky. ... especialy sence by deffinition DBZ is a Multiverse..

       the hypothetical set of finite and infinite possible universes, including the universe in which we live. Together, these universes comprise everything that exists: the entirety of spacetimematter,energy, and the physical laws and constants that describe them. The various universes within the multiverse are called "parallel universes", "other universes" or "alternate universes."...

      i admit i looked it up to make sure. but the fact that there is more than 1 universe in DBZ means it is a multiverse reality.

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    • 0551E80Y wrote:
      why? it makes perfect sense.

      I only meant that it's ok, because in another universe I'll include your suggestion.

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    • @Dracowizard, I was actually talking to 0551E80Y.

      As of Super, the term "multiverse" is used differently. I know everyone else has multiverse being synonymous to timelines, but Toriyama's Dragon Ball uses "multiverse" to describe physical masses of space, essentially larger galaxies if you like.

      I never said "multiverse is an invalid term", I said multiverse is not the same as alternate timeline.

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    • but then your disagreeing with it all together. you believe that 'alternate timelines' is the dragon ball term for differen't universes. while after a lengthy arguement i agreed to leave it at that. i know that what future trunks did is actuaclly travelling to another universe 7 from his universe 7. 

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    • but it is, an alternate timeline is just a parallel universe where some event differed. in trunks case, his goku died. causing a new "timeline"/parallel universe. when trunks went back in time he hopped universes to ours and when he went forward he jumped back to his own parallel Universe.

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    • I am getting sick of explaining the same thing over and over.

      Dragon Ball already used the term "universe" to describe the large bodies of space, dubbed as "Universe 1", "Universe 2" ... "Universe 6", "Universe 7" .etc

      In order to avoid confusion of the usage of the term "universe". The place that Future Trunks came from, which is a different reality of the exact same physical location, isn't referred to as "universe" within Dragon Ball.


      Before you bring it up again. YES! Other shows, books, movies, websites refer to "alternate timelines" and "universes" as the same thing. But DRAGON BALL doesn't.

      Take from that what you will. I am not typing that out again.

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    • and we are back to changing the question to fit the answer type deal...i would prefer to be more accurate to the definiton of a word than make up my own. multiverse is not a hard concept to grasp... my nephew understood it fine on TMNT


      can we all agree that Toriyama is wrong?

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    • Does it really matter?

      There's no proof that "multiverse" is even real. It's all theoretical, so technically nobody is right or wrong.

      Time travel/dimensional travel or whatever is all non existent fiction at the moment.

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    • says you.. Muahahahahahha

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    • All I'm doing is explaining what rules a work of fiction has established within itself. Not what the most likely real life scenario is.

      Dragon Ball isn't remotely scientifically accurate to begin with. People can't fly, have hair that changes color, or fire energy balls.

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    • there is magician who claims to levetate... thats a start to flying... people have multi-toned hair. (black when laying flat, rainbow when standing on end... thats a start to the hair swap.... and monks have been chaneling their internal energy for decades or more( to melt frozen blankets and produce steam)... thats a start to focusing the energy to the hands and projecting it...

      and im not saying he has to folow rules of reality... just dont change a definition of a word that exists in reality.

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    • You can say he's wrong if you want. But that's just how he chose to do it.

      Maybe he wanted to be different, since everyone else was calling alternate timelines "universes", even Dragon Ball Multiverse was doing that. But Toriyama decided to go in a different direction.

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    • Stryzzar wrote:
      I am getting sick of explaining the same thing over and over.

      Dragon Ball already used the term "universe" to describe the large bodies of space, dubbed as "Universe 1", "Universe 2" ... "Universe 6", "Universe 7" .etc

      In order to avoid confusion of the usage of the term "universe". The place that Future Trunks came from, which is a different reality of the exact same physical location, isn't referred to as "universe" within Dragon Ball.


      Before you bring it up again. YES! Other shows, books, movies, websites refer to "alternate timelines" and "universes" as the same thing. But DRAGON BALL doesn't.

      Take from that what you will. I am not typing that out again.

      Well when TFS reaches dragon ball super. (could be years though) and when they learn from the gods about these other universes. they will come to that conclusion as well. 

      May we argue till the heat death of the universe. hahaha.

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    • Dracoswizard wrote:
      there is magician who claims to levetate... thats a start to flying... people have multi-toned hair. (black when laying flat, rainbow when standing on end... thats a start to the hair swap.... and monks have been chaneling their internal energy for decades or more( to melt frozen blankets and produce steam)... thats a start to focusing the energy to the hands and projecting it...

      and im not saying he has to folow rules of reality... just dont change a definition of a word that exists in reality.

      take it stryzzar akira toriyama exists in our world. he is a man of flesh and blood. he can be shot, he can be killed. (hopefully it never happens) and when he's gone his laws of fiction die with him.

      the original creators of superman are gone. and look at the laws of fiction dc has done with him now. does it fit with what they did? same thing is gonna happen to dragon ball. it has become so massive now that it will definitely outlive the original creator of it. 

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    • I do indeed.  I understand that , and I know I cant change that.

      DBM calls it what it is... changing what something is called just to be different is rather .... i wanna say concieded but i have a feeling thats wrong.... i cant think of the word...arrogant maybe?

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    • Fictitious... thats the word...

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    • Well when TFS reaches dragon ball super. (could be years though)

      I want them to have Goku Black speak Goku's to Freeza's speech to Trunkie LOLOLOL

      Ontopic

      Well we rarely seen Vegeta's and Gohan's post "tail cut" butts, and Goku's tail being regrown in GT is indeed a plothole, Toriyama stated that strong saiyan's tail doesn't regrow so why Goku GT's tail regrow if he had a power of a SSJ3 in base?! Toei logic much? Or are they going the "kid saiyans can regrow their tails" logic

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    • BH Ouji wrote:
       
      Ontopic

      Well we rarely seen Vegeta's and Gohan's post "tail cut" butts, and Goku's tail being regrown in GT is indeed a plothole, Toriyama stated that strong saiyan's tail doesn't regrow so why Goku GT's tail regrow if he had a power of a SSJ3 in base?! Toei logic much? Or are they going the "kid saiyans can regrow their tails" logic

      Well we never see vegeta regrow his tail until SS4 in GT. so we dont know if he ever lost it as a kid... but gohans grew what 2 times? and goku as a kid grew it back twice....also during GT his tail didnt really regrow did it? he was given special training on a giant grinding stone that seemed to kick start it but then they litteraly pulled the tail out of him... WTF where did all that mass come from? so finaly. it would seem that the tail regrowth stops at a certain age...which by standard definition humans and saiyans get stronger as we grow, to a point then we usualy plateau at our peak(or near it) then start to decline in old age.

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    • Dracoswizard wrote:
      BH Ouji wrote:
       
      Ontopic

      Well we rarely seen Vegeta's and Gohan's post "tail cut" butts, and Goku's tail being regrown in GT is indeed a plothole, Toriyama stated that strong saiyan's tail doesn't regrow so why Goku GT's tail regrow if he had a power of a SSJ3 in base?! Toei logic much? Or are they going the "kid saiyans can regrow their tails" logic

      also during GT his tail didnt really regrow did it? he was given special training

      Nope, he just was a prison b**** to make coffee :P

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    • I am not sure how to respond to that. 0.o

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    • Dracoswizard wrote:
      I am not sure how to respond to that. 0.o

      1.Well Rou Dai Kaioshin is the highest god (until Zeno sama came), and Goku is.....well a peasant

      2.Sorry, just a gag from the french dub of GT :P

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    • im lost here

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    • WTF where did all that mass come from?

      Same place where the mass for turning Oozaru comes from.

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    • fair point(just seems like it would pull out his spine)... but would that be considered regrowing? or some other form of extraction?

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    • A FANDOM user
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