This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Turles article.
Turles in Dragon Ball Online
Note: This is mostly directed at a certain anonymous user. However, anyone's free to reply.
I have yet to see any proof that Turles is going to be in the game. I want some solid proof. And I don't mean "but he's on the article's page!" I'm getting tired of people putting false information in this Wiki without verifying it. My biggest concern is that Akira Toriyama is overseeing the project himself which more than likely means filler characters or movie characters won't be appearing. For this reason, saying Turles is going to be in it isn't like saying Piccolo or Goku is in the game. That aside, we DO have proof of not only Piccolo, Goku, and Trunks will be in the game, but we also have Vegeta, as WELL as Raditz. Yet, there has been NO proof of Turles being anywhere NEAR Dragon Ball Online. I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE, giving the fickleness of time travel. Just not very likely.
Now I ask you, albeit slightly agitated... You show me Turles or you kindly stop saying "he'll be there".17:57, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
relation to Kakarot
Depending on the dub, Turles is stated to be goku's brother,should we in some way state this? --Silver Sinspawn 05:55, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
- Any lore is worth noting if it can be cited, but this character is more about artistry. He represents alternative history, the might-have-been saiyan warrior Goku, and that's really all there is to say about it. And of course that's why he's popular and cool. 126.96.36.199 20:41, April 16, 2010 (UTC)
- I have a theory on why Turles looks like Goku. as Bardock was sent through time and faced Chilled Freiza's Grandfather he had another son. thich is turles. i know this is most likely unconnon but so is the movie the tree of might (i think as i cant place it anywhere in the DBZ Series). what do poeple think? - Vigilante_SA
One game uses this name for a technique Vegeta uses. Another uses it for a different technique which Turles uses. Since they are from equally valid sources, please do not remove the technqiue from this page, lest we give favor to one game over another. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 12:30, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
- No,The Meteor burst is just a name in the game. The actual Technique is the Pulse Drive. The Meteor Burst is a technique used by Vegeta. The Link leads to a page with NO information about turles. The proper page has the correct info --Silver Sinspawn 18:46, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
Legitimate references are more highly regarded on encyclopedic sources like this one than other non-referencing pages, like some on this site. -- .10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 20:49, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
where is it
where is the trivia my favorite char has no trivia
why does it matter? Turles is too awesome to have trivia.... --Silver Sinspawn 05:04, December 16, 2009 (UTC)
good point lol
I wonder if Turles and Vegeta know each other, and if so who do you guys think will win if they fought? 188.8.131.52 05:34, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason they call Him Raditz in the swedish dub? Also, what do they call Raditz in the swedish dub?
New infobox imageI think this picture looks really cool, plus its a full body shot, which is always prefered here. Finally the pose fits Turles' personallity perfectly, with the cockyness and such. Kikoho-sama 21:24, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
Turles Development Citation?
"Toei Animation stated that Turles's physical similarities to Goku are not coincidental, and that Turles was intended as an alternate version of him."
Can anyone varify where this comes from? Both out of curiosity and I feel that things like this should be cited.
184.108.40.206 07:38, August 31, 2012 (UTC)Zet
One of the very few things that help to tell Goku and Turles apart is their slight difference in hairstyle, which Turles is given at least two 'devil horns'. The thing is, don't you think it should be mentioned somewhere that for some reason, his horns were excluded for his appearance in 'Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans'. In every other appearance, Turles still has them.220.127.116.11 11:39, December 16, 2012 (UTC)
I was wondering if anyone was going to add Turles' personality to this page.(18.104.22.168 22:21, December 23, 2012 (UTC))
Has anyone ever actually explained how Turles came across the seed of the Tree of Might?
If so, then it should probably be added to his biography.
Ok Bardock ssj2 says that Turles's armor sometimes shows up purple. I asked him where when I undone his edit and notified him to use the talk page he left a message on my talk page instead of her. My question was where does it show up purple. He also clearly does not follow the rules since he edited the page again after leaving a message on my talk page.
- I think it is gray, and only looks purple in certain lighting. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:23, September 24, 2014 (UTC)
- Turles armor is seen purple in lightining areas, but sometimes also in dark areas (For example the first picture on the Turles page. Bardock ssj2 (talk) 08:05, September 24, 2014 (UTC)
- His armor is always grey it shows up purple in certain lighting. His armor never appears purple.
May we have a link on all information about him in "Concept..." topic? Especially on information about alternate version of Goku.--Date 08:14, November 22, 2015 (UTC)
About the 'brother' thing
If we're going to include that, then we should at least include Raditz as a sibling.
Yes he does need to be added, also.. it was stated Raditz was Gines oldest and Kakarot her youngest they being her only children, meaning that Tullece was from a different mother and older than Raditz. FlatZone (talk) 10:40, July 28, 2018 (UTC)
What are you talking about? Raditz was several years older than Goku, that means Turles could be a middle child. We dont have any order to go on with Turles in the birth order.
Considering a Saiyan is in the Tube up until their 3rd birthday according to Dragon Ball Minus, Raditz was shown to be about Vegeta's age(5), so 4-6yrs older than Goku. So maybe Turles is a full sibling.. but then again its unlikely considering Gine only speaks of Raditz and Kakarot, and in the Bardock anime movie, Bardock tells Fasha his kid was born a long time ago and only kid he would not remember that long ago would be Turles as he is said to have already been a first rate warrior by the time Goku was born.
" The Supplemental Daizenshuu adds that when Goku was born, Turles should have already been a first-rate warrior. Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 states he used to work for the Saiyan Army under Frieza before leaving him to found his own group and it is implied by Nappa and Raditz that he was apparently sent away on some secret mission, presumably before he chose to abandon the Saiyan Army and set out on his own. Vegeta also states that he was a troublemaker who never learned to obey his superiors, thus implying that he was insubordinate soldier during his time in the Saiyan Army.  Turles had presumably already left Planet Vegeta on his own accord long before it was destroyed by Frieza though Raditz and Nappa attribute his survival due to being on his secret mission at the time, thus presumably the secrecy of his mission was well as the Genocide of the Saiyans may allowed him to go off on his own, though its also possible that they simply assumed he was still in the process of completing it when Planet Vegeta was destroyed, unaware that he used the mission's secrecy to desert the Saiyan Army. "
Tullece is most likely Bardocks oldest child. Gines oldest child is Raditz.. but until we have more on that we can say that Tullece was born about a year after Raditz at the most. FlatZone (talk) 12:36, July 28, 2018 (UTC)
Lets not forget the family tree thing that listed Turles as not related to either Raditz or Goku. Also you guys should check this out http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2018/07/26/akira-comment-toriyama-translation-rumor-guide-update-november-1991-v-jump/--Hulk10 And the idea that Bardock would sire a child with someone either than Gine is ludicrous, as we know that he and Gine had an unusual bond. (talk) 18:08, July 28, 2018 (UTC)
Pages like Son family now have Turles on them but note that other sources don't refer to him as a family member. I'm aware Kanzenshuu considers the Turles being Goku's brother as an error by V-Jump, but that's just there opinion. --Neffyarious (talk) 18:17, July 28, 2018 (UTC)
The exact same source then says that Goku and Turles aren't brothers and they're resemblance is a coincidence due to being low class Saiyans. (" Furthermore, Saiyans are forcibly raised differently based on their rank, so those of the same rank come to have the same face. Tullece, one of the surviving Saiyans, was also originally a low-ranking warrior. That’s why his face is the spitting image of Goku, who was also a low-ranking warrior. ") This isn't up for interpretation. It's wrong and not worth citing unless it's speficially to point out an error. —This unsigned comment was made by Jjgp1112 (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!
No, it was Kanzenshuu themselves saying it was an error, not the article.. and Toriyama retconned the lower class saiyans look alike thing in Dragon Ball Minus, with Bardock being the first with his unique look. Meaning any who have it after him are his children and their children etc. Tullece may very well be his child, but leaving that in the trivia section is better anyay. FlatZone (talk) 14:33, July 31, 2018 (UTC)
DBZ Movie 7's film comic, which chame out AFTER the V-Jump issue, puts Turles seperate from the Son Family Tree. Put this overly complicate dnonsense to rest (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/guides/rumors/saiyajin_family_trees-small.jpg?x32666)Jjgp1112 (talk) 01:01, August 8, 2018 (UTC)
I honestly think it's BS that we're forcing Turles to be Goku's brother over some incorrect source, when it has time and time again been stated by official sources that they have no relation. I don't understand why we're clinging onto one faulty source, when no other source states the same thing. To give an example, official Pokémon guides have accidentally listed regular Pokémon as Legendaries. According to you guys, those would forever be considered Legendary, whether or not it was stated otherwise in every other source. Mistakes happen, even in official sources. It doesn't mean we need to base a whole article over one. Just a little common sense could see the source was wrong. BlackDragon 00:04, August 13, 2018 (UTC)
I'm not really sure. It's sourced so it could be true, yet they're other sources that say he isn't. Since many viewers think it's a wrong source, how about we just take it out of the infobox. We can put somewhere else in the article, and say that according to one source he is Goku's brother. How does that idea sound? Thanks EH28 (talk) 00:23, August 13, 2018 (UTC)
- I wouldn't be opposed to putting something like this in the trivia section, saying according to one source, Turles is listed as Goku's brother, while in every other source he is listed an having no relation. Putting it in the infobox makes it look like an unchallenged fact, and spreads misinformation. Not to mention everyone is speculated whether it's Bardock's kid or not, and it's getting way to head-canon for my taste. BlackDragon 16:58, August 13, 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, since it's truthfulness is so debated over I think the trivia is the best place for it to be. It could also be in the history section to, and say according to a source he's Goku's brother. The trivia section is probably still the best place for it though. You could contact an admin about the idea. Thanks EH28 (talk) 01:13, August 14, 2018 (UTC)
Or how about we keep it in the infobox and add a Trivia point that the information is disputed by other sources? I don't see how removing it from the infobox, given that it's sourced information, can do anything except appease those who think they dictate canon.
- No. Sometimes the infobox breaks from certain edits for some reason. DragonEmeperor (talk) 04:42, January 26, 2019 (UTC)
So little confused here, we listed him as part of the Son family because a single line in an only interview in a questionable book said so, although tons of other OFFICIAL states say otherwise. It needs to be remvoed and added to trivia. If we are told, "yea they are family once", but "no they are not" dozens of times, why did we decide to go with the oddity over the, apparently, official answer?
On top of that, right in the Apperance section it mentions them only looking alike because all low class sayians do. So why keep the confusing information listed in the info box (again, even after being official told its wrong for years) but not awknowledge it at all in the text of the article? Heartlesslove93 (talk) 04:41, February 14, 2019 (UTC)
Remove Goku’s Family Tree
They are not related by blood, it was an error. How do you edit the reference list?
One incorrect source should most definitely not be listed when there are many other sources stating otherwise, and official sources stating it was an error.Chrome0X (talk) 22:40, February 16, 2019 (UTC)
Kanzenshuu themselves are saying they think it is an error. After this it has been retconned, so the source is valid. It needs to be moved to trivia instead of the infobox though. FlatZone (talk) 23:10, February 16, 2019 (UTC)
I don't think quoting Kanzenshuu as a source helps your case, considering how there is a constant insecurity here with regards to the site, Herms and TDC. Of course they won't budge when you tell people who are constantly derided by most DBZ news outlets that those who deride them are in the right. So instead, I'd just argue using common knowledge. ONE of the two sources stating that Turles is Goku's brother is the DBZ French dub, known for its errors in translation, which most other European dubs, including the Big Green Dub, based themselves on. What credibility does this wikia have when you give credit to what is said IN THE FRENCH DUB?! David Kibasennin (talk) 23:56, February 16, 2019 (UTC)
This wiki simply compiles what is said by official sources, without passing judgement, as a true encyclopedia should. The statement is sourced, whether you like it or not.
If you have an admission of error from the same official source that said Turles was Goku's brother, then feel free to present it, and the statement will be moved to the trivia section. Otherwise, the sourced statement will remain.
Compiling incorrect information should not be what this wiki is okay with if it is to be a credible source for DB info it should be absolutely correct with no exceptions. If the source is listed to be incorrect by an equally credible source and directly contested by several other confirmed sources including the movie itself, it should be removed and placed into the trivia section. Chrome0X (talk) 00:35, February 17, 2019 (UTC)
An incorrect statement contradicted by official statements later on should be moved to the Trivia, not left on the info box like fact. Why does the fact he was said to be family, from a very shaky source, over ride numerous later statements saying otherwise? Thats the real issue here. The fact you want to use that source, but ignore later just as official sources saying otherwise just shows that this wiki is going down hill and cares little for showing correct information. Heartlesslove93 (talk) 00:55, February 17, 2019 (UTC)
Check Wikipedia's "Verifiability, not truth" article. This wiki operates on the same principle, just as a true encyclopedia should. The statement is sourced, so it has a reference attached. It's the same as saying "According to this source, (...)".
This isn’t Wikipedia, so don’t use their rules on this site. This site follows its own rules which state: “In in-universe sections, there are several sources of information that can be used. They are arranged in order of authoritativeness. If a more authoritative source directly conflicts with a less authoritative source, the more authoritative source is used, and a separate side note should be made about the conflict.” This is directly from the MoS here, Turles is not Goku’s brother and should only be listed as such in the trivia section as a side note. Chrome0X (talk) 17:00, February 18, 2019 (UTC)
Thank you Chrome. "several sources of information that can be used." is important. Certain people think that cross information coming from several sources is wrong, and obviously they haven't been payin attention to the MoS. That applies to LSS, SSGSS and SS4 pages too, along with Turles no longer being related to Goku. FlatZone (talk) 20:50, February 18, 2019 (UTC)
I’m having a hard time understanding why this was even a debate, we have far more credible and confirmed sources, directly proving this wrong, and Kanzenshuu itself tells you this is an error on V-Jumps part. Why was this even allowed to stay part of the page without someone flagging it?
- Do you guys really think one fan (Herms) disagreeing with published media counts for anything? Opnions don’t count. Only published media, since this is an encyclopedia. Like Orion Invictus said, encyclopedias compile source information without roping in fan opinions. I bet if Herms said Goku can’t fly, you’d want that changed here too. That’s an extreme example, but I wanted to illustrate the bad argument you’re making. We must not include fan opinions over published source media. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 15:41, February 20, 2019 (UTC)
This isn’t an encyclopedia, this is Dragonball.fandom.com and it has its own rules, so stop assuming it’s the same as Wikipedia. It wasn’t only Herms(whom is a Kanzenshuu admin) it was the fact that the movie is ranked above the V-Jump in canonicity weight and clearly says they ARE NOT related. This site is one that chronicles correct information, not any and everything. Chrome0X (talk) 00:11, February 21, 2019 (UTC)
It's from an official source so it stays on the appropriate part of the page. There is no official proof that this was an error, contradictions from other guides does not mean it is, DB media is always contradicting itself. This has been explained before. We don't mention that other sources don't blood relate them because that kinda info does not go in infobox. --Neffyarious (talk) 20:51, February 24, 2019 (UTC)
The MoS says that if a more authoritative source conflicts with an less authoritative source we take what the more credible source said. Why is this any different? Chrome0X (talk) 22:15, March 8, 2019 (UTC)
The sources aren’t of equal weight though.
•Tree of Might: Turles says they only look alike because they are disposable lowclass warriors.
Bardock asks about Goku then Raditz but none others because there are none.
Nappa asks Raditz about his brother and Raditz responds about Kakarot being sent off world, no mention of any other brother.
Sources contradict each other all the time in that sense though, Turles clearly does not exist in Broly, in the sense way that Cooler does not exist, otherwise we'd have to remove Cooler as being Frieza's brother. In the case of Tree of Might it could be Turles assuming that was why they were alike (later sources say Bardock/Goku look distinct from other low-classes), like how Shin assumed Bibidi created Buu (when he actually did not). --Neffyarious (talk) 11:28, March 9, 2019 (UTC)
Can you just remove the brother thing? its quite clearly an error and makes no sense to put him in goku family tree. if pretty much every source says their not related. seriously only one source says their brothers(turles himself never said goku and him where siblings) why is this still a debate. Not to mention a double standard. Shin the science guy (talk) 16:30, March 9, 2019 (UTC)Shin the science guy
I understand not applying personal opinions to the page but we have several sources directly contradicting this one source that outweigh it in canonicity. Will the page still remain the same even with this? Chrome0X (talk) 19:13, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
I'm looking at it from this perspective. It's common knowledge that Turles isn't Goku's brother. Neffyarious you said it yourself.
When a newcomer comes to this wiki, first DB wiki that Google offers up, what are they gonna see? Turles is Goku's brother. Most of them won't notice the little (source) symbol next to it, most of them won't scroll down to understand that he technically isn't, and it was a piece of information that was retconned, which to us, again, is common knowledge. NOBODY notices that little (source) symbol next to Turles' name on the pages of Goku's family, casual wiki users don't click to read the sources, they just read up the info and move on. And sure, you're referencing it down below, but that's basically putting an asterisk* next to it, and hoping somebody is interested enough to follow through.
What they'll see is Goku's entire family tree, and assume that he's indeed Goku's brother, when he clearly isn't.
I know that's what they'll see because I got involved in this topic when I casually was looking at Turles' page, scrolled down, noticed the 'Relatives' section, noticed Goku, and literally went like this: "Goku's his brother. Cool. Hm. Hm. Wait. WHAT?! *scrolling back up* His brother?! They counted the French Dub as canon?!"
Now I scrolled up because I only later realized that what I had just read was inaccurate. But there was two seconds where I read it and moved on. And I already knew that Turles and Goku aren't brothers! Imagine a non-die-hard fan. That scrolling back up doesn't happen to the casual wiki newcomer who literally just comes here for info. This is 'Trivia' level info: "hey, fun fact, according to one source and the French dub, he's actually Goku's brother. Cool, right?" THAT'S IT. We as fans always knew this bit of info as a tidbit and nothing else. Putting them as brothers in the relatives section basically cements what was no more than a retconned piece of trivia, for most. Technically, no, it's sourced, it's good. But VISUALLY, it totally is.
Say what you will about Herms, Kanzenshuu, etc, that their info is more accurate yada yada, their site doesn't immediately pop up when you type "Dragon Ball" in Google. This wiki on the other hand is guaranteed its place on the first results page. With great power comes great emeffing responsibility, and you have a responsibility to make sure newcomers and casual fans get the right goddamn information, not just documenting it. And right now they aren't getting the right information, not by your design, but by not making it clear enough.
And sure, you've covered your butts by saying that "hey, we technically have one-one and a half sources confirming it, and we did reference it, so we're morally clear" but that's not right and you know it. If you're not gonna remove the damn family tree, at least put a large "ACCORDING TO ONE RETCONNED SOURCE" sign on top of it, or instead of writing just (Brother) write (Brother, see Trivia) or (Brother, According to 1 source). That will indeed kinda defeat the point of sourcing it, but at least the danger of somebody getting the wrong info out of it is removed.
Well since it is an offical source, I don't think it should be removed. But if it's a single source that is stating this and seeing how much hostilitiy there is at this from the community. I think its important to note the name of the source as well in the article, that states this. So that fans can decide for themselves if they want to accept it or not, but not remove it at the same time. 0551E80Y (talk) 06:38, March 24, 2019 (UTC)
If it's not gonna be removed, at least make the fact that it's literally the ONLY source in 30 years that states it's the case more visible than just a source symbol that most of the page's visitors won't scroll down to.
Holy crap people this isn't hard. The old outdated info claiming he is part of the family that has been contradicted by every peice of info since should just be put in the trivia and removed from the info boxes. That way we display correct info, like an encycopedia should, with interesting trivia at the bottom. It is interesting that original a source said they were family. The fact is been contradicted 100% of the time afterwards by far more credible sources should tell you something. Heartlesslove93 (talk) 04:06, May 22, 2019 (UTC)
Screw it, dude, they made a glaringly obvious bad call, and won't go back on it because doing so would be admitting it's a ridiculous idea, and they don't wanna look stupid. David Kibasennin (talk) 20:57, June 3, 2019 (UTC)