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Power of this transformation

I am wondering how powerful this transformation is.  People are saying this transformation is as powerful as the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation, and I feel as if thats taking it a bit far.  And if it really does surpass the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation, I would really really like to see Goku and Goku Black duke it out.  TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 16:36, August 8, 2016 (UTC)

I believe Super Saiyan Rose is probably going to be just as powerful as Super Saiyan Blue. A future episode states that Goku and Black will fight each other (Goku will be in SSJB, Black will be in SSJR) - directly stating it will be a very intense fight. I doubt it's not in god level, as it appears to be it will. [b][c red]Gojiran103[/b][/c] 00:29, August 9, 2016 (UTC)Gojiran103

Delete Page

The wiki should wait for future episodes to come out before we put some thang like this here Asuma 000 (talk) 23:35, August 20, 2016 (UTC)

Why is it called Super Saiyan Rose in the first place? Can't the name be cooler?

Pink is another name.

Please note that Super Saiyan Pink is an ALTERNATE name, so please do not change that in the alternate names section of the page. JamariT2000 (talk) 16:55, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

Super Saiyan Pink isn't an official name {{SUBST:Usuario:YonedgeHp/Firma}} 16:57, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be official to be an alternate term used to refer to the transformation. Why don't you understand? JamariT2000 (talk) 16:59, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

That section is used to list all official alternate names, if that's the case Goku Black's page should be list Evil Goku as an alternate name, it isn't used to list all names that the fans says {{SUBST:Usuario:YonedgeHp/Firma}} 17:02, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, say this. For the Super Saiyan Third Grade page, it has an alternate name called Ultra Super Saiyan. But I don't recall that name being used in the anime, manga, or any games.'s still on that list, which must mean its a name that came from the fans of Dragon Ball. If I am wrong, please tell a time where Ultra Super Saiyan was used to refer to that form. JamariT2000 (talk) 17:10, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, that is not an official name and probably shouldn't be included in the Third Grade SSJ page. See also this discussion on that article's talk page. — Zero-ELEC (talk) 21:57, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I see now. I thought fan names were accepted as alternate names for transformation. Thanks for pointing that out, or else we'd have been going on forever. JamariT2000 (talk) 22:06, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

Also I would like to add that numerous fans have referred to Super Saiyan Third Grade as Ultra Super Saiyan where as this form is new and only the fans in Japan and the ones who watch Super right now only know of this form and probably refer to it as Super Saiyan Pink.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  22:09,8/21/2016 

In this case, we should remove Ultra Super Saiyan as an alternate name from that page. It would confuse some people, as that is an official name for Super Saiyan 3. JamariT2000 (talk) 22:14, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

No it would only confuse this generation of fans. Super Saiyan Third Grade was referred to as Ultra Super Saiyan by fans before Trunks even called SS3 that, and everyone who talks about the Super Saiyan forms and where fans from GT back know refer to SSTG as USS or Super 2 and SS3 as that.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  22:21,8/21/2016 

I see, so the same must go for Super Saiyan Second Grade being referred as Ascended Super Saiyan, when that's for Super Saiyan 2. JamariT2000 (talk) 22:28, August 21, 2016 (UTC)

I agree that there is no need for the name Super Saiyan Pink to be added as an alternate name. It's not even very relevant as a fan term, as it was only used by fans for several weeks before the name Super Saiyan Rose was revealed.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:08, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

Super Saiyan Rose in Xenoverse 2

I know Goku Black will be in Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 as a pre-order bonus, but does any know if he will have Super Saiyan Rose as a transformation? JamariT2000 (talk) 22:34, August 21, 2016 (U


It's yet to be confirmed if Black will have his Super Saiyan Rose transformation playable in Xenoverse 2. Although, since the game comes out in October, I think Black's Super Saiyan Rose form will be available. [b][c red]Gojiran103[/b][/c] 10:39, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

Its Going To Be A Separate Character, As Stated Here: Bob1200 (talk) 02:19, March 1, 2017 (UTC)


"A black rose is generally seen as a symbol of death. It most likely has a link to Goku Black's transformation being called Super Saiyan Rosé. Aditionally, light pink is the negative color of light blue. In other words, Super Saiyan Rosé is the anti Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan." Ahem, I would really like to post this quote in the trivia. There, are you happy now? (Jim Green (talk) 21:30, August 28, 2016 (UTC))

All three of these points are major speculation. Considering rosé has nothing to do with black roses, that first claim would be quite a stretch. Toriyama never hinted that there was any symbolism behind the form's color. Also, putting SSJB Goku in negative colors makes his hair look more reddish/orangish than light-pink. Even if it were the direct opposite color of blue, it wouldn't be enough to suggest SSJR being an anti-SSJB. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 23:04, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
I think the last two points are pretty big leaps, but the black rose part seems more reasonable since it's Black using the form.  Just a DB fan trying his best (talk) 23:11, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
Except the form isn't called Super Saiyan Rose, it's Rosé, which refers to the wine. Mentioning roses wouldn't be relevant. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 23:16, August 29, 2016 (UTC)
U realize that rose is not only a flower but also a color right? Its a pink variant that has red in it. Hence the naming scheme as black said. Bob1200 (talk) 16:31, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider it a big stretch. Toriyama is known for making a lot of puns in character 

and form names. Beerus, Whis, Vados, and Champa are all named after alcohol, so Rosé is probably a double pun on both alcohol and a Black Rose since it's a "god" form. The Rose/Blue problem is easily solved by inverting one of the form's colors on photoshop, here:

I wouldn't call it perfect, there's a lot of green in there too, but I'd say it's close enough. -- Final ChidoriTalk 13:25, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't say that resembles blue at all. It clearly looks more like green. Even if it were blue, to assert that it is an "Anti-SSB" would be speculation. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 13:49, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
Personally I think that Super Saiyan Rosé being the anti SSGSS/SSJB makes a lot of sence, since Goku Black is supposed to be Goku's polar opposite and all. Also take a look at this negative picture. It's not flawless, but I think it solves the Rose/Blue problem quite well. (Jim Green (talk) 14:17, August 30, 2016 (UTC))
That's not even pink. That's deep red. All we know so far is that putting a negative filter on SSB makes it red, and putting one on SSR makes it green. You can't say "light pink is the negative color of light blue" considering that clearly isn't the case. Also, your first sentence about it making sense epitomizes what I mean about speculation. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 14:45, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
I have to agree with IStoleThePies, that's deep red, not pink, and putting a negative filter on Super Saiyan Rosé makes it green, look at the images you put in, Jim Green. (Haveorc (talk) 15:18, August 30, 2016 (UTC))
Don't give me this perfectionist crap. Besides, both me and the guy who posted the negative Goku Black picture acknowledged that our pictures are NOT perfect invertions. First of all, Goku Blacks hair is not "green" it more of a light blueish-light greenish color. Secondly, Goku's hair is not "red" it has a redish-pink color with highlights being the EXACT same light pink as Goku Black's hair. As you know, Toriyama is famous for his name puns and clever details, I can bet my house on that he intentionally made Goku Black a black rose and a anti  uper Saiyan Blue. (Jim Green (talk) 15:45, August 30, 2016 (UTC))
This has nothing to do with perfectionism. The colors are way off. Calling green "light blue" and calling red "light-pink" makes absolutely no sense, they aren't the same colors. Second, that's not a pun, that'd be symbolism. I personally doubt that he looked so deeply into the meaning behind the color "pink", but that doesn't even matter. It's not confirmed, it's mere speculation. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 15:48, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
Do you want to do a poll on what hair color the reversed pictures have?
We don't use polls for these things. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 18:21, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

Let's continue this topic. Okay fine, Goku Black's inverted hair is more on green side, however, it does have some blue in it. On the other hand, the inverted SSGSS Goku's hair is clearly pinkish-red and not plain old red (not to mention the highlights are light pink). Knowing how Toriyama does things, there's no way this is a coincidence. Is there really any other explanation why Goku Black's hair is pink of all colors, other than him being an anti SSJB?

Yes. The color could have been arbitrary. Don't speculate on this, and I can't even see a tint of blue in Go
The Color Rosé
ku Black's inverted hair. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 15:42, September 4, 2016 (UTC)
Seriously, no blue at all? Personally I see Goku Black's hair as light green but with a clear hint of light blue. But since we all view colors a slightly differently, I'm actually not that surprised. First we have the color Rosé, secondly we have the inverteted color of Rosé, which seems to be some sort of turquoise.

The Color Rosé (Inverted)
Do you see how dark that turquoise color is? Are you actually calling it "light blue"? Regardless, even if it were light blue, all you're doing is speculating on the meaning of the form's color. Speculating is taboo here. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 23:14, September 4, 2016 (UTC)

Without speculating and theorizing, there's no way to discover unknown things. Just because you can't 100% prove something YET, doesn't mean you should go and just drop it forever. If my theory of Super Saiyan Rose being the anti Super Saiyan Blue becomes true, you are gonna feel a bit stupid, won't you? HOWEVER, nothings confirmed yet, I could be wrong.(Jim Green (talk) 06:47, September 5, 2016 (UTC))

Speculation is not allowed on articles because of the fact that it could be wrong and without 100% prove their is no way to tell also the stuff in the trivia section is for stuff that falls into the category of stuff not a lot of people know.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  07:07,9/5/2016 
This wiki is based on facts, not fan theories. If you want to theorize and speculate all day, go do it here. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 14:03, September 5, 2016 (UTC)
You wanna f***ing go?! Because my jimmies have been extremely rustled. (Jim Green (talk) 14:35, September 5, 2016 (UTC))
Give it up, dude. We're not putting speculation on here. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 14:45, September 5, 2016 (UTC)


Going by the latest episode, SS Rose seems to be the same form as SS Blue, just named differently due to the differing color of the hair. Should the two pages be merged?--Neffyarious (talk) 10:32, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

I disagree. In the usage and power section it reads this "While in this form, Black is stronger than Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan; While Vegeta managed to block Black's punch and assault him, Black was able to shrug off every single one of Vegeta's punches with no visible damage, and then proceeds to stab him with a sword made from his aura." and judging by the episode by paying close attention to his fight. No SSR Should

stay as it is. You should wait for the next episodes before changing as he defeat Goku, and nearly killed him. Besides he called fighting Vegeta a warm-up.--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Page I ignore Things I do 11:28, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

I agree that we should wait longer before making a decision. Assuming that they're the same form with different hair so early is speculation, especially since it's being introduced to us as a new form with a new name that's vastly stronger. -- Final ChidoriTalk 14:04, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

I disagree. There's no say whether it is the same thing as SSB, especially since it isn't really a Saiyan form (Black more than likely isn't a Saiyan). Hell, it might just be his equivalent of regular Super Saiyan, since we haven't seen him use SSJ. Unless we get direct confirmation, merging it with SSB would be speculation, no matter how similar the forms seem. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 22:59, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

I think we should wait for more information on this. As this transformation will hopefully get more explanation as well as to who or what Goku Black is. As brought up on the talk page for SSGSS, it would cause hassle for both sides if we were to merge or change names now. Though I hopefully think this form should help settle the debate for this and the SSGSS page. --Narutofox94 (talk) 23:15, August 29, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox Image

I'm proposing that we change the main infobox image from this image to this image because the latter has higher quality, isn't at an awkward angle, and it includes more of Black's body, hair, and aura. Thoughts? -- Final ChidoriTalk 04:43, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

Personally I think the replacement image is too zoomed-out, whereas the original image is at least a close-up. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 04:55, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

I agree that a close up image is ideal, but displaying the form's hair, aura, etc. at a better angle and higher quality is more important imo. Compared to the other page's images, this one isn't too zoomed out either. -- Final ChidoriTalk 05:00, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

the agree with final chidori to change the image to the better one he provided and it's not zoomed out it provides a better look compared to the previous image being used now Nikon23 08:12, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

The infobox image will remain as it is until there is a better image and that is not zoomed-out. Bargeta (talk) 19:27, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

You're not allowed to make decisions like that by yourself with no community consensus. The image provided is not zoomed out when compared to the other transformations. The current image doesn't show the all of the hair and it only shows a small bit of the aura. -- Final ChidoriTalk 19:45, August 30, 2016 (UTC)
I agree with you on this FC. It should be changed--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Page I ignore Things I do 03:22, August 31, 2016 (UTC)

Grammar . . .

So apparently I got involved in an edit war involving my choice of using a colon when constructing the following sentence: "Black as a Super Saiyan Rosé proved to be physically superior and more durable than Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Vegeta: he is able to endure Vegeta's vicious assault with no evidence of injury or damage as well as compete with Goku in speed and hand-to-hand combat."
It should be a colon instead of a semi-colon. If the two main clause are closely related, a semi-colon is indeed used; however, if the two clauses are not only related but the second main clause also directly explains or expands upon the first, then we go a step further and use a colon.
Here are some quick screenshots of grammar websites that supports my claim that a colon can be used to introduce clauses that explain or expand upon a clause before:
". . . he is able to endure Vegeta's vicious assault with no evidence of injury or damage as well as compete with Goku in speed and hand-to-hand combat," expands upon "Black as a Super Saiyan Rosé proved to be physically superior and more durable than Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Vegeta."
A colon is more appropriate. Lightning Laxus (talk) 10:29, September 1, 2016 (UTC)

I'd go with a semicolon, it just seems awkward using a colon like this. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 11:33, September 1, 2016 (UTC)


What's going on here? Why is Jim Green's edit being undone? His trivia was correct. TyphlosionX (talk) 15:19, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

It may be correct but does he or you really know how many people knows about that. If I remember correctly trivia is supposed to be something that not a lot of people knows about so therefore since we don't know how many people knows about SSR being leaked before it's debut we really can't say it is trivia. Now the other trivia I am pretty sure it falls into that category. Also I would like to know exactly where SSR was leaked because if it was leaked on the internet then it doesn't count as trivia since almost the entire world has access to it. Also I would like to add that he wasn't following site policy once a user's edit was been undone (disputed) it is better to bring it here and leave the article as it was before the user's edit was made so to avoid an edit war.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  15:32,9/22/2016 

TALK ABOUT NITPICKING. hell i didnt know it had been leaked.Dracoswizard (talk) 15:43, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Well it was leaked I even searched to kind of get an rough estimate of how many people know that it was leaked and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it doesn't fall into the preferably little known category. Their are at least two Youtube videos about it and at least 5 to 6 pages about it on websites. One of the videos has 64,295 views.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  15:47,9/22/2016 

I wouldn't be so sure about it. Of course the hardcore Dragon Ball fans, like we who work at the Wiki, and people who watches Dragon Ball "Know-It-Alls" are gonna know it. But the average fan probably have no idea about it. So yeah, we shouldn't take things for granted. (Jim Green (talk) 15:52, September 22, 2016 (UTC))

leaks happen all the time and this situation is not different. That is not trivia Meshack (talk) 15:53, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Another video I found has over 2,000 views and there are others plus countless articles so it is safe to assume more people know about it then what falls into the preferably little known category. I agree with Meshack that this isn't trivia.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  15:55,9/22/2016 

I can literally sit here all day and provide sources for why it doesn't count as trivia.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  15:56,9/22/2016 

It is our job as a wiki to inform those who do not know this. This information has to be included in the article somewhere, and the Trivia section is the most appropriate place for it.

Besides, the average fan who doesn't go on YouTube, Amazon, or Google News search and decides to come to this Wiki instead, would not know it. --TyphlosionX (talk) 16:03, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

What about the average fans, people who only watch it ocasionally for fun? You know, the ones who comes to the Wiki to get advanced knowlege about the series? (Jim Green (talk) 16:05, September 22, 2016 (UTC))

When over 60,000 people have watched Youtube videos, read articles, or even come across the info on social media it is safe to say at least a million people know about it. Also any other info for the entire DB series that has happened since Internet has become what it is today is listed in the trivia section for what it deals with, so no the info should not be put it in the article. I am pretty sure they have even seen the info about it being leaked before it debuted. What are you and Typhlosion not getting about leaks happen all the time and just because something has been leaked doesn't mean it counts as trivia.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  16:12,9/22/2016 

So you're just ignoring people like Dracoswizard? What you're not getting, Goku20, is that those numbers do not apply to the entire fan base.  It is our job to inform our readers, and we don't keep information from our readers. The info must be included somewhere, and the Trivia section is the best place for it. TyphlosionX (talk) 16:17, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

What you are not getting is that no other leaks in the series have been put on the articles they deal with. Also no it shouldn't be in the article at all because besides me and Dracoswizard how many other fans don't about this. Two user's not knowing doesn't count for the entire fan base either, but the only reason I didn't know is because I don't give a damn about Super. You and Jim are speculating that the majority of the fan base don't know about this where I have proof that backs up what I am saying.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  16:23,9/22/2016 

The definition of Trivia:

details, considerations, or pieces of information of little importance or value: "we fill our days with meaningless trivia" synonyms: minutiae

So you're wrong, it is trivia. And I was right, the information best belongs in Trivia, because the information has little importance, just like all other trivia.

What other leaks in the history of Dragon Ball have we had? Oh wait- I wouldn't know, because this Wiki doesn't mention any. So much for an encyclopedia. --TyphlosionX (talk) 16:28, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

"Trivia should be accurate, interesting, not fundamental to the body of the article, and preferably little known. Character comparisons should be avoided." The MoS's stance on trivia and I can say that the leak to me is not interesting or is little known. The first one because of the world we live in nowadays if something doesn't get leaked the people over it are doing a damn good job trying to keep it that way. The second one well I provide sources for it not being the second. If you want to know what else was leaked do some research. An encyclopedia doesn't record leaks.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  16:39,9/22/2016 

An Encyclopedia can and should records leaks, because it is interesting information. Where does it say we can't include leaks? The answer: No where.

As for the second: Key word here is preference. Not a necessity.

TyphlosionX (talk) 16:42, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Leaks are not interesting because they are to common nowadays. They are never interesting because they screw up people's reactions to certain things, like when Black Siren was leaked for The Flash season 2 episode 22 or when the plot of a movie or tv show episode is leaked.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  16:56,9/22/2016 

That's your opinion. In my opinion, it's interesting that something so important, such as a primary villian of arc having their transformation, was leaked before it's official release. And I'm sure plenty of others would agree with me. TyphlosionX (talk) 17:04, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

So Goku20, you must not like trailers or teasers at all? because they are just approved leaks. i enjoy finding out about leaks, one because it shows up coming material out of the intended content, and two it shows that no ones security is perfect.Dracoswizard (talk) 17:38, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

It also shows how things might change in the final release. TyphlosionX (talk) 17:48, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

I don't like trailers or teasers much but for different reasons then you think. The reason why I don't like them much is they at times over hype something or under hype something, I prefer the ones that do the latter but that is because under hyping something means that if it is really good then they will make more money. I would like to add that the difference between trailers/teasers and leaks are that trailers/teasers are one approved leaks but also controlled leaks where as leaks like Black Siren or some of the plot leaks I have seen videos for are not. Trailers/teasers when I watch them only hype me up for a movie, TV show, or video game but leaks don't do that they undermine everything the companies are doing and trying to do. I have seen some companies that have not had any leaks on stuff but some do. You two can like leaks all you want but that doesn't change the fact that more people need to chime in on this.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  17:54,9/22/2016 

The kind of leaks I'm referring to are the kind of leaks that have already been confirmed, like this one. I don't necessarily "like" leaks, I just find it interesting when news came out and a leak had confirmed it before hand.

And to address your "if you want to know about leaks, then research them" argument, if you can even call it an argument. This Wiki is a place of research. But so far, it's doing a crappy job at being that source I'm looking for. --TyphlosionX (talk) 18:13, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Name one encyclopedia website that mentions leaks at all Wikipedia doesn't and from what I have seen no other Wikia does.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  18:23,9/22/2016 

The manual of style states

"Trivia should be accurate, interesting, not fundamental to the body of the article, and preferably little known. Character comparisons should be avoided."

I'd personally say the leak was interesting and it certainly was accurate. -- Final ChidoriTalk 19:08, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

My point exactly, Final Chidori.

Why should I have to go digging for links? Yes, there are pages that mention leaks, primarily on Video Game wikis, since with Video Games leaks are common (unlike Dragon Ball).

What is it about this wiki, mentioning that a historical event about an outside source revealing something early, that bothers you? --TyphlosionX (talk) 19:57, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

What bothers me is the fact that you all think that just because to you all that the leak is interesting that it should be in the trivia section, and what else bothers me is the fact that you think it is a historical event for an outside source to reveal something early, like a leak has never happened before we just got another leak almost the entire disc based roster for Xenoverse 2 has been reveled. So by your logic it should be in the trivia section on Xenoverse 2.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  20:02,9/22/2016 

Yes, the leak should be in the trivia section because it's an interesting and accurate bit of information that only more hardcore fans know. That's the criteria for something being in the trivia section. It's not a huge, historical event but there's not that many instances of a new Super Saiyan form getting leaked weeks before it's official release, and it's interesting enough to be kept. -- Final ChidoriTalk 20:08, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

If the leak was confirmed to be 100% real, then yes, it should be included on Xenoverse 2's page. 

So you claim that the SSR leak was not an event in history that occured? TyphlosionX (talk) 20:11, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

I have provide sources that debunk the whole hardcore DBZ fans know about the leak for this form, but now on the Xenoverse 2 leak we just got I don't know about that one. Well only four people think it is interesting enough to be kept me and Meshack don't so we need to get more people to weigh in on this. Also my stance on it will be that it is not interesting at all. Also I used the whole MoS stance on trivia in one of my messages and I didn't say that the leak info didn't fall into the other two category's for trivia on here because it does fall into both but to me it doesn't fall into the interesting one. Typhlosion it maybe an event in history but not a historic event no leak is a historic event anymore we have gotten countless leaks over the years. It maybe a historic event to you Typhlosion but it isn't to me because of all the leaks over the years. Also a consensuses isn't going to be reached with at least four of you trying to get me to change my mind because I will not change my mind.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  20:19,9/22/2016 

Nobody is trying to force you to think the leak is interesting, we're trying to say that it's not very well-known and is interesting to most people, which is why it should be trivia. You finding it non-interesting doesn't make a difference. -- Final ChidoriTalk 20:30, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Neither does you, Jim, Typhlosion, and Dracos think it is interesting really because while me and Meshack don't speak for the entire DBZ community you all don't either, so while two of us don't think it is interesting and you four do that still doesn't make a difference in the long run. How do you know it isn't well-known to most people?  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  20:37,9/22/2016 

I think you're confused about something. We're talking about leaks that have been officially confirmed, not leaks that haven't been confirmed yet. This Xenoverse 2 leak sounds like it hasn't been confirmed yet, so your point about that XV2 "leak" is mute.

Perhaps "historic event" isn't the best way of putting it, but I'm not incorrect in saying that. History refers to the recorded past. This SSR leak has been recorded on the internet as a thing that has actually happened. Thus, it is technically a "historic event."

It seems the overall consensus here is that the trivia belongs on the page. One person disagreeing isn't going to change the consensus when everyone else is against them. I'll wait a little longer for other people to chime in, though. TyphlosionX (talk) 20:39, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

it's not interesting and it's a leak. leaks happen all the time Meshack (talk) 20:43, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Here is why I am against leaks being in the trivia section at all while some people find them interesting they really don't do movies, TV shows, and/or Video Games justice. I have come across countless leaks some I don't believe like the Star Wars Episode 8 plot leak haven't watched a single video about it or read any articles about it because if they are correct then I don't want to ruin the movie for me. That line of thinking that an overall consensus has been reached because four people agree that the trivia belongs while two people believe it doesn't is wrong. A consensus hasn't been reached. That is what I have been saying Meshack that leaks happen all the time.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  20:45,9/22/2016 

The amout of Dragon Ball fans worldwide is easily 100,000,000 and out of them atleast 50% knows how to speak English. So in reality a video with 60,000 views is really insignificant. (Jim Green (talk) 20:52, September 22, 2016 (UTC))

Ok but how do you know that not the majority of them don't know about the plot leak. Also one video had 64,294 views and another one had 2,103 views, that doesn't count the other videos about the subject or all the people who read the articles or seen it on social media. So we can come up with a good estimate of how many knew and knows about this except at least 2 people didn't know about it while at least 68,397 did know about it while the rest of the fan base is unclear wither they know or not.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  21:01,9/22/2016 

Minor leaks happen a lot, sure, but the leaking of a new Super Saiyan form weeks before the official release does not happen "all the time". It's impossible to say how much of the fanbase is aware that the form was leaked, but I can guarantee you that the majority of it does not know about a leak from an obscure Japanese Amazon listing. We can go back and forth on if it's interesting or not to you, but I think this is an extremely pointless argument and nobody here is going to change their opinion anyway. Let's just wait until more people add their thoughts. Also, during an edit war, the page should be reverted back to a state prior to the disputed edit. Since Meshack removed the trivia first (which was there for a while now), the page needs to contain the trivia until a consensus is made. -- Final ChidoriTalk 21:02, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Leaks may happen all the time, but this is one of those few cases where a leak is true, unlike the Star Wars leaks. And that's interesting to us.

I don't think it's interesting that Future Trunks' favorite hobby is tinkering with machinery, buy that doesn't mean it should be removed from his Trivia section. Because some people actually do find that interesting. I'm only one person after all, and you two are only two people. See what I'm getting at here? It doesn't matter if some people find it uninteresting, because the majority do. --TyphlosionX (talk)

Final I have a question for you how do you know the majority is like? Typhlosion question for you how do you know the majority finds it interesting?  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  21:24,9/22/2016 

Are you referring to me saying that the majority of fans don't know that SSJ Rose was leaked? Again, there's no data, but it's ridiculous to say that the majority of dragonball fans know something as obscure as that. Many of them haven't even watched Super. -- Final ChidoriTalk 21:27, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Yes I am, true that many haven't, yes the majority probably don't unless they came across it on social media, articles on websites, or YouTube videos, but the no data is the problem with all the trivia on here because we speculate that not many people know about the info we are adding to trivia when in reality more people may know then we think. Now some trivia like the one about the wine on this article I guess does fit because only people who either speak French, knows someone who does, has researched it, or works with wine would know it.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  21:32,9/22/2016 

I have found an article and another video the article has 16,403 views and the video had over 3,000 so more people who knew about. Just saying.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  21:36,9/22/2016 

Even if 100K people knew about it, that's still not the majority of DB fans. If you use some common sense here instead of trying to crawl through tons of articles looking for view counts (ignoring that someone may have viewed it twice or if sites are boosting their view counts anyway), you'd understand that there is no possible way for the majority of DB fans to know something like that. Following your logic, literally every piece of trivia should be removed because we have no data on it. I don't know much french, I don't know many people who know french, I have not researched french, and I don't work with wine at all yet I know what Rose is, so your statement is inaccurate. -- Final ChidoriTalk 21:46, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Actually no it isn't and I am using common since but then again I am also looking at the bigger picture I am pretty sure no one will give a damn about SSR being leaked or about some of the other stuff in trivia on other articles (which means they don't find it interesting). Also I am not looking for view counts what I am looking for is proof to back up that more people know about it being leaked then what you, Typhlosion, and Jim think. I understand that unless they have been living under a rock, don't care for Super (like me), or don't pay any attention to the social media posts and Youtube videos the majority of DBZ fans have possibly come across it either on YouTube or social media since you are right about the websites the articles are on. Also I would appreciate it if you would not (at least on here) speculate that I am not using common sense.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  21:57,9/22/2016 

You're not looking at the bigger picture at all, you want to remove it because you don't find it interesting. I don't find many pieces of trivia on this site interesting, but I'm not going to go around removing them all based solely on that. If it's non-speculatory and non-obvious, then it's fine for me. Something like "Yamcha has black hair" would be objectively uninteresting trivia because it's extremely obvious, whereas mentioning a leak that happened due to an Amazon listing is not obvious at all. The "data" you're finding does not prove anything at all. Saying a majority of fans should have found out by now or else they're living under a rock proves absolutely nothing. I have multiple friends who like DB but not enough to actively keep up with it, and I know a bunch of people who are skipping Super spoilers entirely until an English dub comes out. Not to mention the potential new fans that Super may bring over later on who would have no way of knowing a leak like this happened before they even liked the show. Saying that you're not using common sense in this situation is not supposed to be an insult here at all, I'm totally fine with you and I hope that you're fine with me as well. -- Final ChidoriTalk 22:06, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

You keep bringing up numbers that aren't necessarily accurate nor compare to the sheer amount of fans there are.

Why are we still talking about whether or not the trivia is little known? We just established that the Manual of style says that it isn't necessary whether it's well known or not, based on it's use of the word "preferably," meaning it's not necessary.

I honestly don't know what you're not understanding, nor what your problem is with including this trivia, besides that it's "not interesting" to you. --TyphlosionX (talk) 22:14, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

I understand that a lot of people are skipping DBS spoilers to the English dub or are don't like DB enough to keep up with it like some user's here, now I did change the whole living under a rock that isn't the only thing I said there but yes not a lot of the fan base should know about it by now (even though we don't exactly know a number for who does know and who doesn't). Also yes Super might (already has) bring in some new fans. I am fine with you it is just that, that comment kind of made me feel like you was insulting me I will message you the rest. While I do not find it interesting the fact that Jim choose to undo Meshack's edit of undoing his instead of what was best is the only reason I undone his edit so I am getting out of this for now. My problem with adding it is the fact that the three of you since Darcos really didn't say he found the leak interesting, think that just because you all find it interesting means the majority of the fans do whereas their is no way unless we take a poll of all the DB fans and find out how many find it interesing. He just said that he likes finding out about leaks.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  22:28,9/22/2016 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can actually come to a solution that makes all five (since I don't knw where Darco stands) happy?  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  22:32,9/22/2016 

Not really. We either do or don't include it in trivia. Draco seems clear that he's all for the trivia.

Quick question. What makes this trivia any different from all other trivia for you? Besides your bias against leaks. --TyphlosionX (talk) 22:39, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Well I don't find it interesting, but then again I don't find a lot of the trivia on here interesting that is it, so for me personally nothing. Also Typhlosion I just want you to know that if I had kind of made you mad I am sorry. Me personally I think that trivia should be something that not everyone knows and after it has been on the internet for a month at the least it is no longer trivia, but with a franchise like this it is better to give it a year at least so besides my bias toward leaks and me not finding it interesting I guess it can be included, but we still have Meshack to get on board my mind still hasn't been changed, but I have seen how long stuff like this can take only reason I am agreeing to include it.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  22:49,9/22/2016 

Okay, I'll agree, we should see what Meshack has left to say, if he decides to come back to this topic. And yeah, sorry if I came off as mad at you. I'm really "passionate" about this sort of thing, so I might have gotten a little agitated, so I'm sorry. TyphlosionX (talk) 22:56, September 22, 2016 (UTC)

Double Aura Effect

Its obvious that Super Saiyan Rose has a double effect with Purple and Red in it. So how come it isn't considered as the second double aura effect and Super Trunks page says its the second? Even though they have the same thing but with different colors. Just a question. (talk) 21:26, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

That's pretty simple. SSB Kaio-ken combines the aura of SSB and Kaio-ken, Super Trunks combines the aura of SSB and SS2, and SSR... has its own aura, just like normal SSB. Galvatron-dono -- Do you hear the voices too? 21:50, October 12, 2016 (UTC)
Oh I see now.(talk) 22:01, October 12, 2016 (UTC)


It sort of reminds me how Baby infected Vegeta's Super Saiyan form, having grey hair instead of yellow. But I readed that the story behind this Pink color is because it represents death, so Goku Black kinda becomes a "Super Saiyan God of Death", as he even uses a scythe. Skarloey100 (talk) 01:18, December 1, 2016 (UTC)

This is a place for discussing edit conflicts this would be better as a blog or forum.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  02:07,12/1/2016 

Super Saiyan Rose in XV2

Bob1200 is under the belief that just because something has been shown in a datamine that it will happen, SSR Goku Black being his own character and being in DLC pack 3. is his source. Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  02:20,3/1/2017 

The Previous Datamine That Revealed Frost And Cabba Before Their Official Reveal Was Correct, As Well As SSJBK Goku And Awoken Hit. There's No Reason This Datamine Wouldn't Be Correct. SSJR Black Will Be His Own Character, Or At The Very Least A New Variation Of The Original. It Is Not Going To Be Added Simply As A New Awoken Skill For The Original Goku Black, Which Is What The Current "Video Game" Section Implies. Bob1200 (talk) 02:28, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I do believe that the info is right, BUT, the info may change completely afterwards or be non-released. We can't put info that is not confirmed, only for a datamine. ~ Yon ~Great King Cold SDBH World Mission artworkVisit my talk page! 02:30, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

lol They Already Wrote In Bojack On The XV2 Page List Of DLC Characters. Champa And Vados Were Also Predicted As DLC Using The Datamine. The Datamine Has Been 100% Correct To Date. Bob1200 (talk) 02:33, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with you both and I also removed the part about it being added as a awoken skill that way we don't have to worry about this again. YonedgeHp from the but on in your message is the reason I undone his edit plus why I removed the awoken skill thing. Maybe with XV2 but not XV1. Yea and I removed him and the whole DLC pack 3 from Zamazu's and SSR Goku Black's section because it could change.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  02:36,3/1/2017 

Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black as an alternate name

It counts as an alternate name because it is shown to be one in the latest DLC. It says on the roster and as you're playing, "Goku Black (Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black)". This means that this is the official name for the game, making it an alternate name. Any objections?

SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 03:57, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

Super Saiyan form in Xenoverse also have "Super Vegeta" name - but that not really an alternate name--Date450190486 07:19, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

Actually it is SuperSaiyanDate because it isn't just named that for Vegeta it is also named that for the Future Warrior should he/she use the skill Super Vegeta/Super Vegeta 2, so while you don't think that Super Vegeta is an alternate name for Super Saiyan it counts and so does Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black as an alternate name for this form. To further prove that Super Vegeta is an alternate name for Super Saiyan in the description for Super Vegeta in XV 1 it even says "Become a Super Saiyan!", so there you go now back on topic the name is even in the name for DLC pack 3 Goku Black as SuperBen 1000000 said and anyone who watches gameplay footage will see it.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  07:40,4/22/2017 

SSJR is normal SSJ

Super Saiyan Rosé is actually Super Saiyan in the anime. A V-Jump Guide even states this. Toriyama even states this. The only thing that can contradict this is what the manga told us about Super Saiyan Rosé. The thing is, that anime and manga are not one and the same. They tell two completely different paths of the same story and have different power-ups/transformations and different power scaling. So I’m just saying that I’m going to put that SSJR is Goku Black’s Super Saiyan form in the anime. Dbzfanatic27 (talk) 09:52, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

Ehhhh not quite. The V-Jump does refer to it as a Super Saiyan form, but it was arguably just a general comment, that it was a form of Super Saiyan rather than specifically being Super Saiyan.
Toriyama said "Goku Black becomes a Super Saiyan like Goku, and a Super Saiyan of a slightly different color than Goku.". Which would be Super Saiyan and then Super Saiyan Rose which is how it is in the manga.
Super Saiyan Rose has the very same aura as Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue. They even played the same God theme when he first becomes it. With the name to boot then it's clear the implication is that it's the equivalent of Super Saiyan Blue.Bullza (talk) 12:47, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

1. No, the official translation says Goku Black’s Super Saiyan form and it matches it in strength.

2. Toriyama said Goku Black possesses Super Saiyan of a slightly different hair color than Goku. He never said Goku Black’s Rose state is a slight different color than Blue.

3. Appearance has nothing to do with what the form is. Super Saiyan Rose is Goku Black’s Super Saiyan form, although he has god ki because he’s a natural born god. He had god ki in his base form too. Also, music has nothing to do with what the form is. Both are goldy forms but they’re not the same. Dbzfanatic27 (talk) 13:30, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

Still, Toriyama concept describes it like "Super Saiyan like Goku".--Date450190486 12:49, September 23, 2017 (UTC)
Exactly, he becomes a Super Saiyan like Goku, the blonde haired Super Saiyan as was seen in the manga and then he becomes a Super Saiyan with a different colour which would be Rose. If his regular Super Saiyan just happened to be a completely different colour then it wouldn't be like Goku.Bullza (talk) 13:46, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

I don’t know why you keep trying to use manga scenes for the anime. They don’t correlate with each other. Super Saiyan Rose is Super Saiyan with a slightly different color in the anime. Goku Black never used normal Super Saiyan in the anime making Rose his normal Super Saiyan form.

No - manga has no connection to the anime.

Toriyama concept of SSRose describe Rose with phrase "Super Saiyan like Goku".--Date450190486 13:58, September 23, 2017 (UTC)

Of course my eloquence would be lost on the crude ears of mortals... Goodness... Why do I even bother? Super Saiyan, a mortal transformation, is my ultimate power? Hahaha, I use god ki for Rosé thank you very much and the reason it's not Blue is becuase I am an actual deity, unlike those other two pretenders. SSJRGokuBlack (talk) 23:36, February 13, 2018 (UTC)

There is no need to over complicate this discussion. We can simply say that Rosé is the corrupted version of SSJ in the anime, while in the manga it is the corrupted version of SSB. Son of the Prince (talk) 22:31, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

A promotional poster for the Dragon Ball Super anime specifically states SSR is a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan form. Its currently the 3rd reference on the Super Saiyan Rose page. Also, the manga is much closer to Toriyama's original overview than the anime is. Goku Black also states that he has reached a level that a mere mortal cannot reach in the anime. The first Super Saiyan form ( or even Black's version of it) clearly isnt a level where a "mere mortal cannot reach" as many mortal Saiyans can transform into Super Saiyans. Rose isnt a standard Super Saiyan form, but acts as such in the Dragon Ball Fusions video game.Faiquan (talk) 16:59, April 28, 2018 (UTC)Faiquan

People should really come to the talk page and provide references before making drastic edits to any page. To the user who keeps editing this page without citing referenced information, read my above paragraph. A promotional poster from Toei Animation for the Dragon Ball Super anime that appeared in Dragon Ball Monthly in November 2016 says SSR is a "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan who is an actual diety". Unless you have references from other OFFICIAL sources that specifically say otherwise, don't post it.Faiquan (talk)

Edit war

Someone link the source where it states that the anime has SSJR as Black's version of SSGSS.

Despite being referred to in V Jump as Black's version of Super Saiyan, Toriyama has stated in his design sheets that Black is capable of becoming a regular Super Saiyan in addition to Rosé.

then in DBS Manga Chapter 20 it is shown when Black uses God powered Super Saiyan while fighting Vegeta, when once he gets healed enough times after getting hurt each time his power rises enough that it evolves his God powered Super Saiyan into Super Saiyan Rosé which IS SSGSS. FlatZone (talk) 05:49, May 21, 2019 (UTC)

Herms translated it and initially thought that Super Saiyan Rosé was Black’s version of Super Saiyan but equivalent in power to Super Saiyan Blue. He updated it by clarifying that Toriyama originally had the two forms as separate versions with Black’s Rosé being equivalent to Blue and being Black’s version of Blue instead of the regular Super Saiyan form. And black able to achieve Rosé by mixing the regular Super Saiyan form with his natural godly power to transform into Rosé which implies that Black can transform into a regular Super Saiyan even though he didn’t do it in the anime. Just like Vegeta not turning into a Super Saiyan God in the anime until Dragon Ball Super:Broly which we already knew he was capable of doing as that’s the source of power he needs combined with the regular Super Saiyan to transform into blue. I even think that Toriyama’s explanation of this form should’ve been a bit more clearer as I myself think that he was implying that Rosé was Black’s version of Super Saiyan. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 06:49, May 21, 2019 (UTC)).

It's obvious though that the staff thought Rosé was regular SSJR, so therefore in the anime it is just that, or at least a different method of combining the Super Saiyan with God power, it seems like it's implied that Black couldn't go SSJGod because he is a god, you get the point. The anime clearly has it as something different to what portrayed in the manga.

TheCreepy904 (talk) 07:58, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah I see where you’re coming from. But I look at it like this as well. Since Goku Black was naturally a god to begin with I look at his godly status being his own version of Super Saiyan God naturally without even actually having to transform into the actual form since he is a already has Godly status being a Saiyan or a God in the body of a Saiyan without going through the natural means of a Saiyan attaining God powers as a Super Saiyan God is equivalent to a Saiyan with God power through transformation. And since Goku Black had status as a God he really didn’t need to transform into a Super Saiyan God as he already has Godly Ki and his godly power was equivalent or similar to that of a Super Saiyan God. But you can kind of say he didn’t transform to his own version SGSS since he actually didn’t combine the actual Super Saiyan God with Super Saiyan and used natural godly power instead combined with Super Saiyan to achieve Rosé. So in that sense that is kind of Black’s version of the Super Saiyan.(Sosuagwu17 (talk) 10:59, May 21, 2019 (UTC))

  • Black’s godly status = "Super Saiyan God"
combined with
  • "The regular Super Saiyan "
  • Black’s version of "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan".

Note: A god like Saiyan is a Saiyan that uses the power of a Super Saiyan God without actually transforming into the form and remains in his/her base form.

  • "God like Saiyan"= "Super Saiyan God"

Goku Black’s godly status is a equivalent to a God like Saiyan as he has the power of a god without transforming into a Super Saiyan God.

It’s a little complicated but does any of this make sense to you?(Sosuagwu17 (talk) 11:16, May 21, 2019 (UTC))

I would say since Goku Black IS a God, AND he IS a Saiyan that he does NOT need the Super Saiyan God form like Goku and Vegeta do as he already is using Super Saiyan God's healing ability and it's power without the SSG transformation present at all.. Once he got strong enough his Super Saiyan form transformed into SSGSS. So yes, it is Goku Blacks Super Saiyan form, and also YES it is also his SSGSS. FlatZone (talk) 03:36, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

It's a different varient of SSGSS I'd say, in the manga Black goes SSJ, but not straight to Rosé, in the anime it's treated differently;

  • Goku Black's normal state = Super Saiyan God

Since he's already a god, assuming he can't actually transform into Super Saiyan God because he is already a diety, might explain his aura.

  • Black's SSJ = God base with Super Saiyan

It seems anime Black can't go SSJ because his SSJ is SSJR, because it's combining his base that's already a god with SSJ.

Goku and Vegeta describe SSGSS as Super Saiyan God mixed with Super Saiyan, Black however is already a God so basically it could be argued that Super Saiyan God simply doesn't even exist for him, he is already a god.

What I'm trying to get at here is that his form in the anime from the looks of it, his own version of Super Saiyan, since he can't actually choose to tap out of God since his soul is a god, it works differently than the manga when him being a god before doesn't mean he is a Super Saiyan God in base.

TheCreepy904 (talk) 07:58, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah I know, that seems to be exactly how it is. But it comes back to the fact that his form would still be SSGSS even if it is just him turning Super Saiyan. FlatZone (talk) 10:00, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

As Toriyama explains that Rosé is equivalent enough in power to Blue. Therefore it is black’s version of SGSS even if it’s just him turning to his own version of Super Saiyan. Herms updates this by saying that “Super Saiyan like Goku” and “Super Saiyan with a slightly different (hair) color” are totally different forms from each other. Not a version of each other as herms thought. But yeah, considering how the anime and manga defines the form in their own media, it might just be both.(Sosuagwu17 (talk) 15:11, May 22, 2019 (UTC))

So if Trunks' SSJ2 is too strong for Goku's SSJ3 does that make Trunks' SSJ2 form SSJ3? No. In the manga it can be clearly seen he's a SSGSS, or his own version, in the anime, the staff misunderstood, it's HIS version of Super Saiyan, if Toriyama was clearer we would've seen a SSJ Black in the anime, but they assumed he didn't have the form. If Black's base is a proper diety, then going Super Saiyan shouldn't automatically make him SSGSS, even though it technically would, this is starting to hurt my brain, let's put it this way:

Goku Black + SSJ = SSJR


Goku Black base is SSJGod, Goku and Vegeta were God-like saiyans at one point, when they turned Super Saiyan it was regular Super Saiyan, Black's Super Saiyan however is Super Saiyan Rosé, he isn't Super Saiyan God in base, he is simply a diety already, which would lead to some kind of divine SSJ, SSGSS is a hybrid according to this wiki between SSJGod and SSJ. Damnit this is confusing, but do you kind of get what I'm saying?

TheCreepy904 (talk) 09:50, May 23, 2019 (UTC)

Could you please reply back to this thread? I don't believe we're done talking.

TheCreepy904 (talk) 00:25, May 25, 2019 (UTC)

I’m going to look into this a little more and come to a final conclusion just hold up for me alright. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 01:36, May 25, 2019 (UTC))

There's nothing more to say about it, Goku Black has not been confirmed by any source to constantly be using Super Saiyan Gods powers and abilities since he is an actual Saiyan God thanks to Zamasu taking over the body, and his SS form would be an SSGSS form anyway if that was the case. as God-like Saiyan and Super Saiyan God both becomes SSGSS when the user turns Super Saiyan. FlatZone (talk) 02:12, May 25, 2019 (UTC) In response to FlatZone, I disagree, SSGSS stands for "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan", Goku Black is not a Super Saiyan God, his soul in the anime, is just that of a diety's, it can be assumed he can't access Super Saiyan God because he is a diety already, therefore going Super Saiyan would result in HIS version of Super Saiyan, it's implied he can't go blonde Super Saiyan because of this. God like Saiyan is basically not a thing anymore at this point, as at first people thought that Goku and Vegeta couldn't go SSJG anymore because they absorbed it's power, which is not the case. Goku and Vegeta are seen using the blonde haired SSJ, Black cannot, how does a diety tap into Super Saiyan God when he's already a God? Already being Super Saiyan God would have allowed him to wipe the floor with Trunks and not have to get stronger. I don't believe he already has SSJG power in the anime. TheCreepy904 (talk) 23:58, May 25, 2019 (UTC)

I believe that Black in the anime is capable of going regular Super Saiyan. Just because he only turned Rosé in the anime doesn't particularly mean he can't go regular Super Saiyan and there's no evidence that claims that the animators thought or mistook Goku Black's Rosé as his version of Super Saiyan though the way herms translated might be a bit misleading or maybe they intended for his Rosé form to be his version of Super Saiyan who knows. Because in Battle of Gods Goku was able to use the power of a Super Saiyan God while only in his regular Super Saiyan state and still fight on par with Beerus so the same concept might apply to Black as well though we've never seen him turn into a regular Super Saiyan but he still might be capable enough to use the power of a deity even if he turns regular Super Saiyan without turning Rosé himself. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 03:40, May 26, 2019 (UTC))

Design sheet literally declares "Becomes Super Saiyan like Son Goku but Super Saiyan with a slightly different color than Son Goku."--Date450190486 07:12, May 26, 2019 (UTC)

No, it doesn't.  Officially Black can become a SS and a SSRose. The animators decided to skip his SS form and save screen time not showing it. FlatZone (talk) 14:29, May 26, 2019 (UTC)

As you see, herm's already pointed out that he would have a regular Super Saiyan in addition to rosé but the animators decided to skip the form and go straight to Rosé but in the manga he was featured with Super Saiyan. It's just like how the animators decided to have Vegeta not shown with the Super Saiyan God form and only go to Blue in the anime until he was first shown with the form in animated format when the Broly movie was released versus the manga that had already featured a Super Saiyan God in the manga. So it doesn't necessarily mean Black can’t transform into a regular Super Saiyan in the anime. The form was just skipped that’s all. Because they did that with Vegeta as well. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 17:09, May 26, 2019 (UTC))

Toriyama wasn't clear, I remember reading from a source (I'll try find it) that they thought Rosé was Black's SSJ. It was very unclear whether Vegeta could turn SSJG or not during Super's run, obviously he could, but tons of people including the anime staff thought he couldn't and he'd skipped the form, it's a similar situation with SSJ2 and SSJ being confused with one another, or in my opinion, they didn't know how to draw SSJ2 Trunks so they purposely played it off like it was an animation mistake.

They were following Toriyama's rough outlines, and probably didn't know if Vegeta could go SSJG or not, because again Toriyama is unclear, even though the name SSGSS makes it obvious.

It's not the animators desicion, it's the writer and storyboard artist, which Super had multiple. I believe if they thought Goku Black did have a SSJ form in the anime then they would have included it, but they weren't too sure. Herms pointed it out that Toriyama said that Goku black had a SSJ and SSJR, no doubt about it, the anime staff misunderstood though.TheCreepy904 (talk) 01:32, May 27, 2019 (UTC)

I guess you're right. But it still doesn’t exclude the fact he’s still a SGSS even if he’s turning into a regular Super Saiyan so we might as well just say that the form is both so we can end this whole complicated subject. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 01:44, May 27, 2019 (UTC))

I'm really sorry, I know it seems that this is dragging on, but I really dislike misinformation. If it can't be confirmed, then it should be said that it is unknown or unclear. Goku Black's Rosé is still treated as a SSJ in the video games, this happened because the developers need to at least have some knowledge about what's going on, logically it could seem it's still SSGSS, but logically it's not. Saiyan like God is basically not a thing anymore, according to this wiki anyway. But that said, I honestly believe as much as I do not really like the idea, that Rosé is Black's SSJ, Toriyama's notes state that Black had SSJ and Rosé, but the anime staff didn't seem to understand, since Toriyama only drew a picture of Base Black and Rosé Black. 

Let's say Goku and Vegeta were God like Saiyan's in DBS (anime), they were still able to go SSJ regularly. Goku Black was already strong enough to go SSJ by the time he meets Goku, I doubt they would have skipped Super Saiyan to Rosé, it doesn't make sense, it's possible, but I believe as long as we don't find an answer I'm not comfortable letting this slide. TheCreepy904 (talk) 12:03, May 27, 2019 (UTC)

We don't use videogames as defining sources, period. Black has SS and SSR and that's all there is to it. Toei left out his SS form, and then the videogame developers for a few games took that as him not having a normal colored SS form and only Rose. Herms and the manga chapter goes on to clear and clarify this, and now we have this info on the page. So whether you agree or not, doesn't make you right and the fact you are the only one prevents any changes from being made. FlatZone (talk) 17:19, May 27, 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't Goku say that Black has his own version of Super Saiyan (i.e.: not Blue) in the Japanese version of the cartoon?

Orion (T-B-C) 17:22, May 27, 2019 (UTC)

No, it doesn't. He just names it Rosé since it looks different than Blue. FlatZone (talk) 19:26, May 27, 2019 (UTC)

From what I see there's is NO source saying it's his equivilent to SSGSS, I'm disagreeing because it's not a fact. I'm not saying video games 'count', what I'm saying is they usually have some kind of contact with Toei when creating these characters. Keep in mind I'm talking about the ANIME, it's been told that SSJR in the manga is SSGSS, so I don't know why your bringing that up, it has nothing to do with the anime. You aren't right when you can't provide any source, FlatZone. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying it should be said on the page that it's unclear whether it's SSJ or SSGSS in the anime. I'm very passionate about this and I hate seeing misinformation, there's been enough already, especially stemming from this wiki. If you want to keep blocking your ears while trying to convince yourself your headcannon is right, fine. I'll go to an admin about this who will listen.TheCreepy904 (talk) 03:27, May 28, 2019 (UTC)

Flatzone has given you multiple sources to prove that Super Saiyan Rosé is equivalent to SGSS or Super Saiyan Blue to be more specific. Didn't you read up on the sources he gave you? Toei even said it themselves that Rosé is equivalent to Blue according to what Herm's translated. But since Toriyama was unclear, Toei may of thought Rosé was his version of Super Saiyan so the manga clarifies this by pointing out that Black indeed can transform into a regular Super Saiyan. The manga and the anime are presented in different ways but keep in mind they still follow the same regular Toriyama storyboard script or sheets however you want to call it so they are not all that different and it’s just different people working on the same thing but presenting different ideas of a particular story. Look at it like this, the manga is the one that clarifies what the anime failed to explain or present or wasn’t clear about so Toyotarō adds more detail and explains more while the anime continues on with the story since it runs in a much more faster pace than the manga when broadcasting because at the end of the day, whether it’s an anime and manga, Dragon Ball Super is still Dragon Ball Super and falls under the same storyboard or plot so they are not all that different whether the anime or manga presents a particular story or concept of a story. And don’t think that the manga has nothing do with the anime as it kind of does in the sense that Toriyama is providing the storyboard for both the anime and manga who happen to have different people working on it. I’m even sure that Toyotarō grabs some ideas from the anime and implements them into the manga for new chapters since the anime was always ahead of the manga and traditionally the manga is supposed to be ahead of the anime, that’s why the storyboards are told differently but it doesn’t a 100 percent mean that both the anime and manga have nothing to do with each other as Toriyama is supervising both and they both fall under the story of Dragon Ball Super.(Sosuagwu17 (talk) 04:08, May 28, 2019 (UTC))

I'm sorry, did you look at the sources Flat gave? It's Toriyama's notes, but not everything is adapted as Toriyama wrote down. Like Ultra Instinct's appearance was changed slightly and given two seperate forms. Toyotarō works right beside Toriyama, and therefore I believe has somewhat more information on certain tid bits. Just because Black went SSJ in the manga, does not mean he could go SSJ blonde in the anime. The two stories are the same, but they are taking very different paths now. Basically what your saying is that SSGSS works the basically the same in both the anime and manga. It doesn't. Because the anime and manga are different, too different now. SSGSS in the anime has no flaws as it does in the manga, hence why we haven't seen a Completed SSGSS in the anime. Same goes with SSJR, Toei may have made a mistake, but it's been said and done now and no source as far as I know of has come out from Toei saying in the anime Black could have transformed into a blonde SSJ, if anything, it's implied or even said that SSJR is regular SSJ for Black, it's not his SSGSS. Toriyama basically fixes up the story boards Toyotarō comes up with, but he has nothing to do with the anime staff's story boards, he writes down a rough draft and Toei puts it together. Is SSJR SSGSS in the manga? Yes. Is SSJR SSGSS in the anime? I beg to differ. TheCreepy904 (talk) 09:01, May 28, 2019 (UTC)


Can someone please link Hermes updated translation of the Dragon Ball Monthly poster? I cant find it,only the one that is already on this page. Thank you.Faiquan (talk) 16:51, July 21, 2019 (UTC)

I actually don't think herms had a screenshot of the actual magazine page translated, I think he wrote it down on notes and posted the screenshot, then what your looking at on this page is basically what herms said but someone edited it on there to replace the Japanese, something herms didn't do. None the less it's accurate, as far as I know it was never rectonned that SSJR is SSGSS in the anime, they kept it as Black's regular SSJ form. TheCreepy904 (talk) 12:46, July 22, 2019 (UTC) this is the other source that was translated. FlatZone (talk) 19:45, July 22, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much Flatzone, and I now agree with Rose being Goku Blacks version of the regular Super Saiyan form in the anime. There is no information available that contradicts that. I actually believed SSR to be SSGSS in the anime as well, until reading Toriyama's plotline of the series and learning that Toei Animation made changes to Toriyama's plotline.Faiquan (talk) 23:05, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

In the anime, for Goku Black SSGSS form IS his Super Saiyan form, being that Black is a godly Saiyan(he has God Ki and didn't need the SSG Ritual or the Angel Training to get it since he's a God to begin with who already had acquired God Ki) his Super Saiyan form IS SSRose. So yes SS and SSGSS are the same, one is just the Godly version of the other. FlatZone (talk) 00:34, July 31, 2019 (UTC)


There are two possible versions of the quote we could use at the page top, sub and dub. Discuss which is most suitable and keep in mind we are not forced to use dub quotes. --Neffyarious (talk) 11:32, July 30, 2019 (UTC)

It was with its dub version before the edit war so its only fair and reasonable to keep the page how it last was before the edit war as I am contesting the edit. Look at the history, Creepy904 is edit warring and I even left him a message in my edit summary warning him about this and he was the still edit warring even after warning. I am just following site policy by leaving the page how it last was before as I am contesting the edit so it’s only fair to keep it how it last was before the edit war. But no, Creepy904 doesn't want to wait until consensus and we even had a discussion about this in my talkpage but he still tampering with the page even when discussion isn't over so he is the one initiating the edit warring while I'm just following rules by contesting an edit another user made by leaving the page to its last updated version before the edit war occurred. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 14:24, July 30, 2019 (UTC))

Proof:Rule on Edit warring

  • Refrain from fighting and causing "edit wars" on articles. It is considered edit warring if someone were to make or undo the same edit more than three times in a twenty-four hour period. If such conflict should occur, the proper steps to be taken in this scenario should be for those users along with others to have a respectful discussion on the article's talk page. (Contesting User) The convention is for the article to be left as it was prior to the disputed edit, representing the last accepted revision, until an overall consensus is reached.

Creepy904 violated this and continued to tamper with page even when discussion wasn't over and consensus wasn't reached. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 14:34, July 30, 2019 (UTC))

So why aren't you following the rules Sos? It was left has such for a week+. As Neffy said, it's considered safe, you started the edit war. If you think I'm the main one breaking the rules then there's a massive exploit there because you initiated the change that was considered safe, I changed it back, you didn't consult me for a consensus to be made, you kept undoing my edit. So you are the one that broke the rules.

Just to revise incase you didn't get that; You can't just edit a 'safe' page and insist we reach a consensus, but until then it stays in your edit, that goes against what you were just saying. Similar to the "SSJR is SSJ situation", you refuse to leave it how it was, but instead you insist it stays on your edit until we reach an agreement. Infact, until we reach an agreement, we might as well take down the quote so no one has their way until we figure this out. TheCreepy904 (talk) 02:23, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

The edit also stayed with its dub quote for about a week as well after I changed it back without being disputed so it is also considered safe as well since Neff stated that "an edit that stayed in an article about a week without being disputed should stay on the article when the edit eventually becomes disputed" and is forced to be switched back so the dub quote has every right to be considered safe as well since it met that criteria as well and Neff said it should be left with its dub instead since the dub version of the quote has been in the article way more longer compared to your change to its subbed version. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 04:09, July 31, 2019 (UTC))

Stop acting like I knew you even changed it to the subbed version, I didn't edit war on the article when I changed it. The day I changed it, I was editing the page and didn't even realize you even changed it back to its subbed version. I happen to see the quote and made sure it was in the dub version based on people I've seen changing quotes to dubbed version whenever it releases and no one having a problem after the quotes get changed to its English version so I wanted to check if the quote was in its dubbed version. I happen to see it wasn't so I changed it to its dubbed version along with adding the episode title denoting where the quote came from. About a week after I changed it, you saw the quote in its dubbed version and disagreed with the edit so you changed it to its subbed version, I happen to see your recent changes to the quote and happened to disagree with you changing it back to its subbed version so I changed it back to its dubbed version which eventually led to the edit war. Like Neff said, an edit is considered safe when having been in the page for about a week without being disputed so the dub quote was already safe by the time the edit war started since I changed it back about a week before the edit war so you were actually initiating the edit war when told numerous times leave it how it last was before the edit war started which was with its dub quote. You happen not to agree with this and still undoing my contest of your edit even when warned about edit warring and given a reason during the dispute. So like it is said in the rules, leave page on how it was before the edit war and also when it is considered a safe edit. Removing the quote entirely is almost like trying to have your chance and get your way so no one wins the dispute over your contested edit even when consensus isn't reached and possibly change the quote back to your own preference for a while after the removal based on your own disagreement with a certain edit in the dispute. Like I said in the rules, the agreement is the article should be left how it was which is the last accepted revision before the edit war until discussion is made and finished and consensus can be reached. I'm tired of saying this because it feels like it goes in one ear and comes out the other. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 04:09, July 31, 2019 (UTC))

− Actually if the quote should be accepted in the revision made by you on the 8th then it shouldn't have the episode title that I added in the quote box since it wasn't there when you changed it 14 days prior before I changed it back. In my eyes, it is considered a new edit when you put the subbed version of the quote along with it still having the episode title in the quote box since it was slightly different from when you first changed it and it previously didn’t have the episode title in the quote box and you added the subbed quote in the quote box with episode title during the edit war, already making it a slightly new but still new edit and making my revision of the quote box 14 days after I changed the quote to the quote back to its dubbed version as now the latest accepted revision before the edit war that occurred 6 days later. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 06:28, July 31, 2019 (UTC))

if i may put my two cents worth in. I think we could go with original quote and simply put the English quote in either usage section of this page or put on Black's page.--Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson [mod] 06
36, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

For my personal opinion on the matter. I prefer the dub quote. Loads of other articles have dub quotes and some have changed to be in more line with what the orignal manga is trying to potray. Such as Goku's article. 0551E80Y (talk) 06:38, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

Exactly, the more reason why it should be left with the dub quote instead. It still doesn’t change the meaning of the quote even when left in the dubbed version. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 06:46, July 31, 2019 (UTC))
Exactly the more reason it should be left with the sub quote. It's not the meaning, it's the representation of Black's character, in the dub he comes across as an obnoxious Goku of British descent, in the jap dub he comes across as more sinister, soft spoken and very particular with his words. In the dub the lack of phrases such as "Isn't it beautiful" and "I see things from a higher pace" and such are different then what the dub portrays. In the dub he is very hyper active speaking very quickly compared to the japanese. The reason why I have no problem with the other articles is because Kai is very faithful to the japanese script, in Super they take more liberties as stated by Christopher Sabat to make it "their own". Head canon. Simple. TheCreepy904 (talk) 08:30, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

I'm not against keeping the English Dub version, but i'm also not against the Subbed version. However, I looked at the edit summary and Sosuagwu17 wasn't insisting on keeping his edit, but he was following the rules as the quote was on the page before the edit conflict occurred. As such it reverts the quote in the link i just gave.--Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson [mod] 08:26, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

Problem is Jackson, is that even Neffy stated that my edit was 'safe', it was up for almost 2 weeks, Sos' edit was up for 5 or 6 days compared to my 14+ days, he started the edit war, he refuses to just get rid of the quote until we come to an agreement. He wants his edit to be the final edit until we have met a conscensus, which is totally unreasonable in my opinion. I don't see the matter with ridding the page of the quote until further notice. It comes down to Sos being very possessive over certain pages like the whole "SSJR is SSJ" debate we had a couple months ago. I'm giving my reasons why it should stay subbed, obviously he hasn't read them. TheCreepy904 (talk) 08:34, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

That's not how a conscensus works though. I respect Neffy, but just because he says it is safe is not the reason enough. Neffy gave you his thoughts and opinion on the matter. I didn't realise how long it went on so it show go back to your edit if it was left for that long. So i'm sorry for my error. But I'm on the fence with this one "either one is okay with me or put the english/original version someone else" - this wiki has mostly put english names first because it's the english wiki/fandom.--Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson [mod] 08:40, July 31, 2019 (UTC)
There's a big difference between using an english version of the name, and a japanese one, like in Kai for example. In this case, this is a quote, it's no mystery that Goku Black's personality is different in the english dub. I'm not saying it should be one or the other, I'm saying until we reach a conscensus, there should be no quote, I'm not against having both the dub and sub. I think there should be an explanation on the differences between the two portrayals of Black in each dub. The main information on Goku Black's personality though should be true to the original, while it should be explained later down the line that the dub treats his personality differently to the sub. TheCreepy904 (talk) 08:51, July 31, 2019 (UTC)
Right so from what I can gather. Originally the article had the Dub quote. Creepy changed it to the Sub quote as he feels it's more in line with the character. After some time passed (over two weeks?), Sosuagwu changed it back to the Dub quote and shortly after Creepy changed it back to the Sub quote and you've edit warred since?
Is that right? So this is a bit awkward because I think a wiki should be both accurate and consistent. If the site mainly used Dub quotes then it should be a Dub quote too but if it's not an accurate representation of the character then the Sub quote would probably be better. Creepy got banned? That seems a bit harsh but if he had continued to edit it back in without waiting first then that is his fault.
I ain't too fussed which quote it is, they both seem somewhat similar to me.Bullza (talk) 15:21, August 1, 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I've stated my reasons why it should be subbed, Sos, state yours. TheCreepy904 (talk) 02:53, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

In response to this comment by you: Just to revise incase you didn't get that; You can't just edit a 'safe' page and insist we reach a consensus, but until then it stays in your edit, that goes against what you were just saying. Similar to the "SSJR is SSJ situation", you refuse to leave it how it was, but instead you insist it stays on your edit until we reach an agreement. Infact, until we reach an agreement, we might as well take down the quote so no one has their way until we figure this out. TheCreepy904 (talk) 02:23, July 31, 2019 (UTC)

I wasn’t insisting that it should stay on my edit during the SSR is SSJ situation. I was merely following the rules by keeping the edit as it last was before the edit war. Because you and another user were constantly undoing each other’s edits without bringing it to the talkpages for discussion so I was forced to revert it back to what it originally was before the edit war. But you are wrongly interpreting that I'm trying to keep it in my own edit and what edit I prefer which is false because I'm sure if I had reverted to your edit you would think its okay. I don’t think you fully understand how a consensus works in this wiki despite the fact I have given an explanation to you. Look at the history between you and another user edit warring from May 19th-May 21st until I stepped in to stop the edit war and reverted it back to what it originally was as of May 16th a few days before the edit war between you and another user. You two didn’t even bother bringing it to discussion and both of you kept edit warring. I would of reported you two for edit warring right on the spot but I gave you guys a chance to talk over the disputed edit which is how the whole Super Saiyan Rosé is Super Saiyan discussion started between me, you and Flatzone. Your edit warring habits shows me how much you are unfamiliar to the rules and your unwillingness for patience and adhering to the rules regarding edit war when conflicts like this arise and probably other rules listed. Even after your block and creation of your sock puppet account, you continuously violate the rules by using unaccepted swear words and abusing multiple accounts. If you just follow the rules like you have been told numerous of times then this won't be an issue. That is how you got blocked in the first place which is no surprise. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 04:18, August 5, 2019 (UTC))

And on my reason why it should be left with its dub quote. To make it more familiar with the English anime readers who come to this site and since most quotes in this wiki are left in its dub version I have no problem with it being with its dub version instead of the original subbed version. The meaning between the two quotes are very similar and quite frankly mean the same thing and since most quotes are in its dubbed version, it should be kept with its dubbed version as I'm more used to seeing it there. And besides the dub quote has been in the page long enough so I feel like it should stay. In the context of what the quotes are saying, they don't change the fact of how Goku Black describes the color of Super Saiyan Rosé to be magnificent and beautiful and how tapping into this magnificent new level of power made him decide to give this new transformation a name in the likes of the Saiyans naming system of Super Saiyan forms while still keeping his true character and tone of voice intact which the dub portrays good as well in my opinion. So the fact that most quotes are left in its dub version in many articles it should be left with its dub version even though the subbed version portrays Goku Black's character in this quote in a good way as well. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 04:18, August 5, 2019 (UTC))

I'll go further in depth into my reasonings why it should be left dubbed, here are two videos that I'm using for my evidence. The first is the Japanese dub, the second is the English dub. 

Just before Black claims he wanted to fight Goku in his current body, he lets out a "Hmph.". In the Japanese this sound is a lot more arrogant and softer, while in the English it's a very aggressive loud "HMMPH!"

Goku Black wanting to fight Goku in his body is both very similar with a few tone changes that aren't that significant.

After Goku recovers from being blown into the mountain, Goku Black in the Japanese says something along the lines of "I'm happy you're evaluating me against you." This is said in a very calm demeanor along with the "hmph.". 

In the dub Goku Black instead of going "hmph", he chuckles quite obnoxiously, way to loud to be in tune with his Japanese counter part. In the dub Goku Black talks a lot faster with more sentence structure then his Japanese counter part. 

When Goku becomes a Super Saiyan 2 Black says in Japanese "Super Saiyan, huh?" Or simply "Super Saiyan?".

In the dub Black says "Jumping to Super Saiyan are we?", quite a bit faster than in the original, still not too bad. However the delivery and tone of the voice is far to 'out there', loud and rough.

Before Black hits the ground followed by a barrage of ki blasts from Goku, in the English dub, for some reason an added "Err" is there for some reason, showing Black was kind of irritated and annoyed at Goku, losing his calmness that I speak of so much in the Japanese. Which mind you had no added sound.

Goku Black explaining how outstanding Goku's power is in the Japanese and English aren't much different, just obvious tone changes and the way lines are delivered.

In the Japanese when Goku Black tells Goku to show him "more of the warriors race's strongest power", it's said in a almost humbling way, if anything, at this point it's almost as if Black admires certain parts of Goku specifically. 

The English dub doesn't portray Black in this humbling, creepy soft spoken demeanor. As seen when Black says "Your power is the only good thing your warrior race ever produced, I want to feel that close up". The way Sean delivers this line is very aggressive and much more arrogant and obnoxious compared to the Black we see from Masako Nozawa's portrayal.

After the seen above, the Japanese portray Black's assault on Goku was very menacing, calm, psychopathic almost. Still not quite aggressive, but you can still tell Black is determined to get a taste of Goku's power. While in the dub, it's way more aggressive, it's the stereotypical villain sounding character really, there wasn't near as much depth as from the Japanese unfortunately. 

Black shooting ki blasts while Goku dodging is another good example of how the Japanese portrays Black compared to the English dub.

After Trunks and Vegeta's conversation about Goku's specific flaw, you see Black and Goku fighting, in the Japanese, you can barley hear Black making a sound, you have visuals to guide you on the emotions of the character. 

In the english dub however, Black never keeps quiet, there's a saying that makes sense why to Japanese one stands out so much more to me, that is: "Silence is deafening".

That was the first comparison, now I'll be comparing the Japanese and English for when Black goes SSJR, video sources:

In the Japanese Black says "You've come surprisingly far, for having a human body" "Let me show you something as good as a reward". The delivery of these lines is almost said in a whisper, yet such a way that shows Black is itching to show something to Goku, Vegeta and Trunks. You could even say there's somewhat of a mixture of fury in there, but yet it remains this calm creepy tone and expression. Black doesn't seem to be in a rush, he seems to be in the moment taking everything in.

In the English dub, he says "For a lowly animal you'be come quite far", this shows a bit of a different side to Black, he loathes the human's and it shows, when in the Japanese, there's a bit of mutual respect and pride knowing the creation of the Gods weren't totally useless. As it helped him with his plan. 

The delivery is very arrogant and way too out of character for the Black we saw back in the early days of DBS when this scene first aired. There's too much arrogance and obnoxiousness in his voice instead of remaining this quiet personality that we saw from the Japanese.

After Black transforms, he says "How is this color? Isn't it beautiful?" as opposed to the English translating it as "What do you think of it? Quite the color? Huh?". In the Japanese this sentence shows how Black really does think the form is 'beautiful', he states this out right even. The way Black says it in the Japanese is also a lot more confident and calm, not letting it get to his head. However, the english dub portrays Goku Black as even more obnoxious in SSJR, his tones more aggressive, he loses that calmness. He gains a big head from these changes, this isn't what Black is mean't to be, I believe the English could've done better, but what's done is done.

In the Japanese Black also says, "If I were to name it in your style, it would be..."Rosè." "Yes... Super Saiyan Rosè". The delivery is slower than the English, it's here that shows that Black has some kind of complex, that he really is higher than the rest, but it doesn't give him a 'big head', it shows he has a lot of confidence, and even with this power, he's still calm, and from here on out he uses words such as "Beautiful", "Beauty", "Wisdom", etc to describe himself, again, showing he has a complex, he comes off as very vain. 

Now for the English. "In keeping with how you like to label your power levels the name of this one is, Rosè." "That's right, I have now reached Super Saiyan Rosè.". If we compare this to the Japanese, it is clear there are far more syllables in the English. This delivery not only is way too rough, aggressive and arrogant, it's too fast. In the Japanese Goku Black seems to really have a personality of his own, talking slower than Goku yet sounding just like him, in the English dub however, this is not the case as Black is just as obnixious as Goku, as well as far too rough and lacks the formal sentence structure that the Japanese Black had. 

When it comes down to it, Japanese Black is a creepy, soft, but well spoken masochist that is shown to have a complex, a view that looks down on others, yet his own strange sense of mutual respect. 

While in the English, Black is obnoxious, far too arrogant, and has the feel of the 'generic' villain. I believe this is to Funimation taking more liberties with the dub, as even stated by Sabat. It's no secret that Sean Schemmel thinks he has the right to change a character to 'fit' his audience. He contradicts himself because he actually said that no matter what Dragon Ball has, it resonates with different cultures whether it's Japanese or not. So if this is the case why change his character and insert head canon in there?

Again, this wiki should be renamed the Funimation Dragon Ball Wiki if you think just because the fan base is more familiar with English(which they aren't when it comes to Super), that everything English should be left the way it is. If you actually thought the quotes were the same, we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

Most people have seen DBS in Japanese before English, most people these days in the fandom have seen and heard the Japanese VA's and what not. Compare that to the early and mid 2000's when I don't remember EVER seeing Japanese DB videos online. It's a repeat of what happened years ago, most of the fandom were introduced to DBS in it's Japanese form, not vice versa. 

I still count this as misinformation, it's like saying that because this wiki is an English Dragon Ball Wiki, then pages like "Super Saiyan 2" should be referred to as "Ascendant Saiyan" and the Frieza race should be referred to as "Arcosians". I've actually gone back and changed some stuff on those pages, just because more people are familiar with a certain dub that is inconsistant, doesn't mean they should be sheltered away from the true and faithful original source. I remember seeing that the SSJR page used to state that SSJR was actually SSJ, yet someone who thought they knew better than the Shueisha V Jump Magazine decided to change it to "It's SSGSS". Another example of this fandom's terrible head canon that's accepted for whatever reason just because it makes sense to you, and you think the original source is stupid, because SSJR looks like SSGSS. 

If you people really are Dragon Ball fans and are here to spread information about this franchise that we love and care about so much(even though it's not perfect), you'd be spreading information on not only the English dub's, but the Japanese original sources and all that stuff. The whole point of a wiki is to give perspective, not be biased even though unfortunately that happens sometimes, even I admit, I really don't like Sean Schemmel's behaviour over the years especially with the AMA he did with Christopher Sabat. However, I love Christopher Sabat, and think he's really sweet, and that a lot of the immature comments he's posted are just him trying to defend his friends understandably. Heck, I had a suspicion that Toriyama might be a homophobe considering he stated he had a lot of respect for someone in Japan whos notorious for being against the LGBT community. Not that that is confirmed, so please don't go thinking that is the case, Toriyama's quite simple. 

Anyway, back to what I was saying, if this is a wiki wanting to spread to spread correct information and educate people on this franchise, you'd all be fine exposes them to the true source of information, that is that came from Japan, infact, I think every quote on the wiki should have a disclaimer saying which dub the quote is from, if it's possible even have some sort of a spoiler like infobox that you can click on to get either the Japanese quote or English quote, maybe add in some manga exclusives here and there. When it comes to Goku's 'Super Saiyan Speach', in Dragon Ball Kai it is a lot more faithful to the original if anything, and doesn't impact Goku's character as this quote does with Black, again, they have taken liberties.

This is unrelated but this is the last time I'm touching on this.

Stop playing victim, I created another account because I had no way to defend myself which I have a right to do as when it stopped me from editing pages it said I should be able to contact an admin, which I couldn't, your childish nature is really starting to show through, and I really think you need to grow up, I swore once, big deal, you had me in such a fustrated state it's not even funny, if anything I should be playing victim here, not you. I think you'd be a great lawyer, even a police officer, because the way you see things as when referring back to the rules shows you have a very rigid black and white thinking, you are unable to see the gray areas, and you continue to either play innocent, or you're gas lighting. However, you still didn't want to come to an agreement even when I said that we should bring all talk to the talk page, instead, you kept posting on my page as well as others, this made it hard to keep track, I believe this was possibly you being cunning in an attempt to get me banned in which you succeeded, though it didn't stay your way for long and once again you complain. I tried to reason with you here on this talk page, I wanted to keep the SSJR page rid of all our quotes until we reached a conscensus, which if you look at the history, you'll see that you still didn't want to do that, you wanted it to stay in your edit, which wasn't fair in my opinion. I'm extremely thankful you're not an admin on this site, because the amount of abuse you're capable of isn't funny. And it would most likely go unnoticed as not even Neffy or the other admins saw a problem at first. Now we've got that out of the way, stop going back to this squabble we had, and give me an answer to what I wrote above comparing the Japanese and English. TheCreepy904 (talk) 11:31, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

By removing the quote you effectively edit warred as the page is to be left the way it was before the edit war until a consensus has been made.--Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson [mod] 13:08, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

I did want to reach an agreement but it is you who couldn't wait until consensus that I was forced to contest your edits after numerous tampering of page while discussion was going on and I ultimately had to come to a decision to report you since you are not following the rules. Why do you think there are rules in the first place? Obviously to regulate how things are handled and should be worked here. I shouldn't have to tell you repeatedly to stop edit warring. I was not even insisting on keeping my edit. Look at the summaries. I was saying the page should be left with the dub quote which was how it last was before the edit war started as that is part of the rules which you continued to violate. But it just comes to the point when you can’t admit your faults and refuse to understand where I'm coming from concerning this matter just because you want everything to go your way. I don't mind if you have an opinion about something even if I don’t particularly agree with it but I'm mainly against on how you handle things here which resulted in me reporting you to an admin. But you know what, I'm probably leaving this site because of conflicts like this and signs of flaming to the point where I have to take a break from all this drama because this is getting too out of hand right now and I don’t even want to bother anymore. Do what you want. You can have it your way and change it to the sub quote so all this arguing and fighting here can stop. This is not needed here. I felt like since they mean the exact same thing and dub quotes are more regularly used in this site it should be left with the dub quote. But have it your way since that is how you want it. This has just escalated to pure drama and I don’t want to be apart of it because of your impatience to just leave the quote with the dubbed version before consensus. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 13:13, August 5, 2019 (UTC))

Can we come to a agreement so I can remove the "(Dub Only)" thing in the alternate section of the template. I'd prefer the English Dub version of the quote.--Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson [mod] 13:20, August 5, 2019 (UTC)

Last time, there are grey areas. Have you read and analysed the videos I sourced? Because to me it seems you haven't. If there's no difference between the two quotes why are you so adamant to keep it as dub? Stop dodging my questions, by doing this you are just proving my point that you are unwilling to have a discussion. TheCreepy904 (talk) 00:41, August 6, 2019 (UTC)

I said you can change it to the original. The quotes mean the same thing so why should we bother even warring over something as little as a quote that shouldn’t have escalated to this. Either quote is fine and can be used. If you felt I was too controlling and being unfair in anyway here then I am sorry. I just got more used to seeing the dub quote there since it has been in the page for a very long time. I don’t think I mind anymore for it being its subbed or dubbed version so you can go ahead and change it. I just want to finally patch things up with you so this senseless bickering can stop and this edit warring doesn’t repeat itself. I can understand that you are passionate about the series and want the best for this wiki on how this wiki displays the content here but sometimes things need to he handled in a proper manner or polite manner so constant conflicts and consultations of admins to deal with the conflicts doesn’t occur. The subbed quote sounds fine to me anyways so just change it if you want to. There we have finally come to an agreement. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 02:31, August 6, 2019 (UTC))

Agreed. Next time the communication bewteen us will be a lot better. I'm happy that we can co-exist on this wiki without anymore conflict. TheCreepy904 (talk) 11:57, August 7, 2019 (UTC)

SSJR is a Super Saiyan transformation

TheCreepy904 (talk) 02:41, September 14, 2019 (UTC)

Not exactly as it is also considered a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan form as well as both Black's SSJ version of Rosé in the anime and Black's SGSS of Rosé in the manga are both equivalent to Blue in strength so saying:Quote 1 "A Saiyan Transformation which matches Blue" would be a more proper or better words to use than the ones you added since it defines the form as a whole and considers all incarnations or interpretation of the form from the anime and manga without distinguishing the different ways the form is interpreted in both the anime and manga as well as shown in both versions whether it is a Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan because all version or interpretations of the form are considered when saying it that way instead of saying it is a Super Saiyan transformation because you are basically distinguishing the way the anime interprets it. And plus Rosé (defined as a Saiyan form matching SSB in strength) is already mentioned to be a Super Saiyan form as stated: Quote 2"In the anime, this form is simply Goku Black's version of the standard Super Saiyan form" so it would be useless and redundant to say : Quote 3"A Super Saiyan transformation which matches Super Saiyan Blue in strength." when it is already mentioned (based on Quote 2) in the first place on the introductory that Rosé is a Super Saiyan transformation and also to avoid a double link for the same Super Saiyan page in the introductory whenever Super Saiyan is mentioned which happened when you added it like that. When a transformation is introduced in an article in the respective page for it, we tend to mention the race mainly associated with that particular transformation when introducing it for instance Super Saiyan Rosé being a type of Super Saiyan transformation is still a transformation used mainly by Saiyans or Golden Frieza being a form used by members of the Frieza race so based on the formatting it would be best to say "A Saiyan Transformation" instead of a "A Super Saiyan Transformation" because most or at least a good amount of articles pertaining to Super Saiyan transformations or other transformations used by different races say it like that or similar and I just believe the first one sounds better compared to the second one you made. It is a Saiyan transformation as well and classified under that so it should be left as it is. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 04:22, September 15, 2019 (UTC))

"In the anime, for Goku Black SSGSS form IS his Super Saiyan form, being that Black is a godly Saiyan(he has God Ki and didn't need the SSG Ritual or the Angel Training to get it since he's a God to begin with who already had acquired God Ki) his Super Saiyan form IS SSRose. So yes SS and SSGSS are the same, one is just the Godly version of the other. " Goku Black is already a God thanks to Zamasu and his God Ki that he already had, his SS form in the anime IS SSGSS. So saying his form is Super Saiyan is correct, saying his form is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is also correct.. see what I am saying? FlatZone (talk) 05:24, September 15, 2019 (UTC)

The more reason why saying it like this "Super Saiyan Rosé is a Saiyan transformation which matches Super Saiyan Blue in strength." since it can refer to both the SSJ and SSGSS interpretation of the form compared to saying "Super Saiyan Rosé is a Super Saiyan transformation which matches Super Saiyan Blue in strength." because you are only saying it is Super Saiyan when it is clearly also a SGSS form as well plus with the addition of text already mentioning that it is a Super Saiyan form in the anime version as shown above in the quoting of some of the text in the introductory as I mentioned above so it seems pretty unnecessary to word it like that and the wording just doesn’t sound right at all even though it is technically true based on the anime interpretation of it but it was already mentioned to be a Super Saiyan transformation so saying it like that was not needed. It is just like saying "Rosé is a SGSS form that is equal to Blue in strength" but excluding the fact that is also Black's version of the regular Super Saiyan in the anime that is why a Saiyan transformation is a better wording for it rather than a Super Saiyan transformation. Keep in mind that Black actually used the standard Super Saiyan in the manga so wording it like that also seems pretty unnecessary because you are excluding the fact that Rosé was not a Super Saiyan form in the manga versus it being one in the anime that is why introducing it as A Saiyan transformation is more proper due to different interpretations of it and it is more proper because it doesn’t exclude references of other facts about the form. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 06:12, September 15, 2019 (UTC))

I disagree. The Golden Frieza arguement cannot be used since he is the only one seen using the form in cannon, the games don't count. SSJR is a very unique transformation to Goku Black as an entity, I feel saying it's a Saiyan transformation is too much of a generalisation, people need to know the difference between the anime and manga version, as it is now common misconception that it is a SSGSS form in the anime. For example, before Kale we had Z Broly have the unique LSSJ, only used by him. Not any Saiyan can access SSJR. 

Super Saiyan God is a Super Saiyan transformation, I'm not sure why it isn't listed as one on some of the pages, instead it's listed as a hybrid, which doesn't make much sense. The manga is obviously different to the anime as we've already established, most likely because Toriyama is extremely blunt about these things, there's a chance SSJR is completely different in his head than what we know. If SSJG is a SS transformation, then I don't see why it isn't stated as such on the SSJR page. I've also noticed that the anime takes priority on this wiki over the manga, which is why it should be mentioned first above all things what the form is in the anime.

In response to Flat, I have to disagree for the fact that it has now been established that SSGSS is Super Saiyan God combined with the power of Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God gone Super Saiyan. However, in the anime, if Black already has the status of a true God due to his spirit, then going SSJ would be his version of SSJ, since he isn't a Super Saiyan God, rather just a 'Saiyan God'. Even in the anime Goku and Vegeta stated Goku Black transformed into a Super Saiyan with huge power. TheCreepy904 (talk) 10:48, September 15, 2019 (UTC)

I don't have time to read all of the above right now but in a way, saying that it is a Saiyan transformation may not be fully accurate as in the manga they said that Rose was formed when a deity surpasses Super Saiyan God.
It's not something any Saiyan can transform into him. It was just exclusive to Goku Black because he was part God.Bullza (talk) 12:14, September 15, 2019 (UTC)
  It's all pretty complicated, in the manga did his Super Saiyan form just 'evolve' into Super Saiyan Rosè? Can he still access Super Saiyan God? What I got from reading the manga is that unlike the anime, he wasn't actually a God when he was in Goku's body. It's almost as if he had to learn to use god ki again. So when fighting with Vegeta he was able to gain more zenkai's from being damaged and healed which made his Saiyan cells connect more with his 'godly mind', thus allowing him to turn Super Saiyan God while he was in his Super Saiyan form resulting in SSGSS, a 'Rosè' version exclusive to him because his soul is of that of an actual god. But in the anime, from the statements we have gotten from magazines, it's almost as if when he swapped bodies with Goku, the rules of the anime universe and manga universe differ in that his soul basically carried to god status over to Goku's mortal body in the anime. So when Black goes Rosè in the anime, it's him turning Super Saiyan, which makes sense considering he fought a SSJ Goku and then mimiced his fighting style/ability, more than that, he mastered Goku's power. Not to mention Black in the anime somehow was getting stronger without being healed, which could have something to do with the godly spirit. These should all be noted on the page in my opinion, just because of how confusing this all is. Basically it's not a Saiyan transformation, it's a true diety's Super Saiyan transformation in both the anime as well as the manga. Anime being base Black having a godly spirit and turning Super Saiyan, resulting in his form, and manga being going Super Saiyan God ontop of Super Saiyan resulting in SSGSS being the color it is based on his status as a god. 
I guess it all comes down to the slightly different concepts in both the anime and manga. The anime treats Zamasu's soul transfering over to Goku's body as basically moving everything Zamasu was/has, so it turns into a situation similar to Ginyu swapping bodies with Goku, except Zamasu's an actual diety, so going Super Saiyan doesn't result in Super Saiyan God or SSGSS, it results in his own version of Super Saiyan because he's not a Super Saiyan God, how does a god access that transformation anyway? While in the manga, it seems his godly soul did transfer over to Goku's body, but it was very different being in a mortals body, so it took time to get used to the body and connect the Saiyan cells to the godly soul. Not to mention he had to heal before he got stronger. Black in the manga it's safe to say his base wasn't flat out god ki since he had become a mortal being going into the body of Son Goku, so when he goes Super Saiyan it's regular Super Saiyan, and so on with Rosè. My head hurts now.
TheCreepy904 (talk) 14:39, September 15, 2019 (UTC)

It was already mentioned to be a Super Saiyan form only in the anime so I suggest you reread the introduction. it's pretty unnecessary to change the wording like that especially since it has been like that for years and no one seemed to have a problem with it until now, I personally do not agree with the change. It's just like repeating the same thing everyone has already saw or read because there is literally text in the introduction that says it’s a Super Saiyan form only in the anime. Rosé is most certainly a Saiyan transformation so I would have to disagree with you on saying it isn’t. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 16:41, September 15, 2019 (UTC))

Whether it's been like that for 4 years or 20 years, it doesn't matter, misinformation can be around for a long time before it's corrected. It most certainly isn't a Saiyan transformation, not a normal one at that. By saying it's a Saiyan transformtion you're implying that any Saiyan can use it, which isn't the case. This form is exclusive to Goku Black. Super Saiyan God is a Super Saiyan form, SSGSS is a Super Saiyan form, SSJR is a Super Saiyan form. The god forms as far as I know are part of the Super Saiyan line of transformations, if you read above I actually mentioned this already. By saying it's a Super Saiyan form you would be saying it's a branch of Super Saiyan or a form of Super Saiyan, compared to saying it's a Saiyan transformation. TheCreepy904 (talk) 14:06, September 16, 2019 (UTC)

That is where you are wrong, it has been now shown that SSG and SSGSS are part of the Super Saiyan line. Goku Black says so in the manga, and Vegeta pretty much says it in the U6 vs U7 Saga. Also vs Moro when Goku was losing energy he went from Blue to God and then from God to 3. He was losing energy involuntarily yet he went from God to 3 and not God to Base. So SSGod and SSGSS are part of the Super Saiyan line you just need to actually have God Ki to be able to use them. FlatZone (talk) 15:03, September 16, 2019 (UTC)

Oh okay. Now I see where you are coming from when saying it "a Saiyan transformation" because it can imply that any Saiyan can use the form which is not the case so there might need to be some re-wording but then again saying it is "a Super Saiyan transformation" can also imply that you are trying to say it is a higher or lower version of the regular Super Saiyan form in strength like Super Saiyan Second Grade, Legendary Super Saiyan, or Psuedo Super Saiyan for example which is not exactly true for SS Rosé as it is a higher Super Saiyan level among the Super Saiyan transformation line with the exception of the anime treating it as an actual form or at least version of the regular Super Saiyan form while the manga treats it as a higher Super Saiyan level transformation compared to the regular Super Saiyan form so in that sense and also implication it is kind of conflicting to say it is just "a Super Saiyan transformation". Why not just say "a form" to refer to the form itself since it refers to the form as a whole regardless if the anime views it as a Black's version of the regular Super Saiyan form while the manga views it as a higher level Super Saiyan form. How about wording it like this. "Super Saiyan Rosé is a form mainly assumed by Goku Black which matches Super Saiyan Blue in strength." since Goku Black was mainly the character that used the form though other characters have used the form through circumstances related to Black. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 16:50, September 16, 2019 (UTC))
Saying it's a Super Saiyan form is referring to it being part of the Super Saiyan line, it's not saying it's a higher or lower form. I've noticed this wiki puts the anime first and above the manga, so I feel it should focused                mostly on the anime way of things. At this current point of time, it hasn't been explained exactly what SSJR is        in the anime, we can only go by the source that stated it to be a "Goku Black version of Super Saiyan". Perhaps we could say it's "It's part of the Super Saiyan line of transformations"? TheCreepy904 (talk) 05:23, September 17, 2019 (UTC)

I don’t think you understand what I am saying, just like you said there is a different meaning to saying SSR is "A Saiyan transformation" because it can imply that any ordinary Saiyan can use it which is wrong, I am saying calling Rosé a "Super Saiyan transformation" can also imply that it is a version of or a different evolution of the regular Super Saiyan form (since the regular Super Saiyan form takes on the "Super Saiyan" name for the most part), not a higher level Super Saiyan transformations (like Super Saiyan 2, or Super Saiyan 3) that is part of the SSJ transformation line. Examples are Legendary Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan C-Type or Super Saiyan Second Grade being versions of or different evolutions of the regular Super Saiyan form that’s what I mean by that which is not the case for Rosé in the manga as it says otherwise while the anime says it is a version of the regular Super Saiyan which is conflicting in both parties as they say to different things and should not be worded like that nor exclude any interpretation of the form whether it is considered a version of the regular super saiyan form or not because for the most part Rosé is considered higher level transformation above the regular level Super Saiyan transformation but based on other info it is also considered a version of regular Super saiyan form and if we mention it like that it would be just like repeating information since it was already mentioned in the introductory text of the SSR to be Black's version of the regular SSJ form only in the anime. So calling it a Super Saiyan form doesn’t only mean you are saying it is a type of Saiyan transformation from the Super Saiyan transformation line, it can also mean it is transformation that is a version of the regular Super Saiyan which is not absolutely the case for Rosé in the manga while the anime treats it as such. We already know it is part of the Super Saiyan line of transformations because Super Saiyan Rosé literally has Super Saiyan in the name of the form so as the title suggest for it, people who are reading it are likely going to know it is a type of Super Saiyan transformation based on the name having Super Saiyan with the Rosé in the name signifying it is a different type of Super Saiyan transformation so there is no need to word it like that and it is just not necessary. So saying "SSR is a form..." is a good enough because if you say it is just "a form" it would just point out to the transformation of Rosé itself (similar to how the introduction text in the SS Blue page is formatted) without having different implications or meaning of what is said as it would consider both meaning of the form whether SSJ or SGSS with the addition of saying "mainly used by Goku Black" because the form was mainly exclusive to Black because it was his own unique form though other characters from video games have used or gained access to the form due to either switching bodies, absorbing or fusing with Black so technically the form is really only meant for Black and the characters only gained access to the form because they were around Black to use his SS Rosé powers due to certain abilities to gain access to it. It doesn’t matter whether the wiki focuses mainly on the anime way of things or not, any information related to Rosé whether from the anime or manga or the way Rosé is explained in both the anime and manga is considered here and should be added here because they are still official information so it's wrong to just go by the anime's explanation when there is also the manga's way of explaining it. The manga's version of events and explanation of certain subjects are considered here as well amd are added especially when there is noticeable differences between the way something is told in both the anime and manga regarding any subject here. I am suggesting this is a better way of introducing Rosé in the article: "Super Saiyan Rosé is a form mainly used by Goku Black which matches Super Saiyan Blue in strength". (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 09:00, September 17, 2019 (UTC))

Goku Black is the only one shown to actually access the transformation, the only reason why Zamasu had it was because they fused when he was in the Rosé form. What about "Super Saiyan Rosé is a form that can only be accessed by Goku Black, which matches Super Saiyan Blue in strength" This isn't false but it's still technically true since Goku Black is the only user shown transforming into the form. I agree on the first part though, let's change it to "a form" instead of "a super saiyan form" TheCreepy904 (talk) 23:02, September 18, 2019 (UTC)

That sounds fine. I will change it to the text you suggested. (Sosuagwu17 (talk) 00:12, September 19, 2019 (UTC))

Recent edits by Sosuagwu17

As far as I can tell, this form may be accessed by any Saiyan with God Ki. I would like to hear the explanation for why this is not the case, as per Sosuagwu17's recent edit. -KidVegeta (talk) 02:24, September 19, 2019 (UTC)

Just because a user can utilise God Ki, doesn't mean they have the status of an actual God. If any Saiyan could access SSJR, why haven't Goku and Vegeta done that already? Let me explain it this way;


Super Saiyan Rosè is Goku Black's version of Super Saiyan. The anime has different logic to the manga, Goku Black has complete access and control over a Saiyan's ability to grow stronger, he also utilises the Rosè form as a regular Super Saiyan form. Goku and Vegeta can't access SSJR in the anime because they aren't Goku Black, the form is exclusive to Goku Black as an entity.


Super Saiyan Rosè in the manga is Black's SSGSS form(Super Saiyan Blue). The reason why his hair color is different for Goku Black is because he is at God status already, this is shown when his Saiyan body connected with his Godly mind. Again, this form is exclusive to Goku Black being Zamasu. 

I do have a theory though on why it may be crimson in the manga. Super Saiyan God requires a pure heart, Zamasu has a pure heart, so when turning SSGSS instead it becomes crimson instead of blue. Just a theory though. TheCreepy904 (talk) 07:54, September 19, 2019 (UTC)

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