We know it's a new form by appearance alone. Even though we don't know it's name yet it has had an appearance so it's given a page - we made Vados' page before we knew her name as well.--Neffyarious (talk) 03:43, October 9, 2016 (UTC)
Then why delete it? We can just rename the page (and by the looks of things, it had been renamed several times already) when the official name comes out. And we could just do the same thing as what you said with Vados. I say keep the page, as it will be updated with more info as it comes out later. LuckyEmile (talk) 09:14, October 9, 2016 (UTC)
Honestly I wouldn't delete it, just put it in so that the name is conjectural or fan-made until an official one is said. We don't know if it is a new form, but if it is, then the page is gonna have to be re-made anyway. If it's not, it can just be deleted when that's cleared. CJSTRO14talkcontribs 17:24, October 9, 2016 (UTC)
So if I'm reading this right it's some sort of "Pseudo Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan?" --"theGroundworkGuy 10:28, October 10, 2016 (UTC)
Ever get the feeling that this form is trunks using every super saiyan form he knows all at once?--"theGroundworkGuy 06:37, October 23, 2016 (UTC)
I don't think it's appropriate to use false super saiyan blue as its alternative names. For we don't exactly know if this form even have anything to do with super saiyan blue and plus it's actual name has yet to be released. Now I know that we have visually seen the form in action and I know he have a blue aura that looks exactly like super saiyan blue, however we cannot give him that alternative name, for that name have not been used in any other dragon ball media or dragon ball super to be officially it's alternative names. Until such is reveal "false super saiyan blue" is a fan term. Ankhael (talk) 15:29, October 23, 2016 (UTC)
I think it could be a form available only to hybrid saiyans. Adult Gohan and Future Trunks both only fight out of need, not desire. The rage that fuels this transformation may be of a pure nature which is what allows him to utilize the Spirit bomb and its energy. Super saiyans, due to the malicious nature of the transformation cannot gather the energy as they lack a pure heart. Being a hybrid, and his rage being only out of his desire to win for the sake of others and not himself, might be the key behind this form. He has control over the transformation which means it cannot be a variant of false super saiyan.In effect he becomes a god through the offerings and worship of those he his protecting and fighting for. Assuming the whole universe knew of their struggle, a warrior with this transformation could have no limit to the energy they could harness.LazyTriggerFinger (talk) 21:30, December 13, 2016 (UTC)
Referencing non-canon forms
I'm seriously baffled why you guys like referencing non-canon forms so much, on par in terms of relevance with canon forms. I'm sure everyone gives a shit that Trunks' new form resembles Pseudo Super Saiyan, a form that few people remember and one that never took place in the actual timeline of events. LSSJ I can understand, because Broly has tons of fanboys here, but still - I suggest the canon forms to be listed first and the non-canon ones added after them, so that there is some sort of hierarchy maintained. This wiki panders way too much to fans of Toei-only material Xfing (talk) 09:33, October 12, 2016 (UTC)
- Hell, not even the the series itself "canon" and "non-canon" . 12:31, October 16, 2016 (UTC)
I do disagree with the "everything is canon" idea this wiki has, but treating the movies like they were never made is going a bit too far. Yes, Lord Slug wasn't the best movie ever, but saying no one remembers it really isn't true at all. Also, since when does Broly have tons of fanboys here? A couple years ago, maybe, but now? We're not the bunch of eight-year-olds we were back in 2012. Just a DB fan trying his best (talk) 23:54, October 17, 2016 (UTC)
Name's the Same
You people do realise that Super Trunks also refers to the Super Saiyan Third Grade form Trunks takes sometimes, right? Does that mean we change any reference to the Z Super Trunks into something else or no? - Unsigned comment by Aljohn Salceda 10:10, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
I personally do not think that Trunks' new form is any type of godly ki-powered form. I think the form came to be because of all the rage that was in Trunks. Think about it, how would Trunks be able to learn and tap into god ki just by training with Vegeta for a couple of hours. The blue ki can probably mean mortal ki or spirit ki. He had the energy, courage, and mind, all things you need for your ki to be stable and he was able to mix that with rage and potential and created some type of Spirit Super Saiyan. But thats just my theory.
It's pretty clear there's not a name for this form yet in any media, so for now wouldn't it be best to name this "Unknown Sayain Transformation" or "Trunks' Unknown Sayain Form" or something like that? There's no official name yet so can we stop pretending there is one?TwistedGears (talk) 08:15, December 27, 2016 (UTC)
- The pages name is official, it's from Dragon Ball Heroes, you'd know if you looked at the source.--Neffyarious (talk) 08:17, December 27, 2016 (UTC)
- Actually I wouldn't because I can't read that, but okay, I thought the name change was just another person thinking they had a better name for it. If heros gave that name I supose it's the best we have unless it gets a different name in Super. TwistedGears (talk) 08:29, December 27, 2016 (UTC)
- So... the real name of this transformation is Super Saiya-jin Ikari, huh? OMG, it's so weird name... Natison (talk) 13:59, December 28, 2016 (UTC)
Has any of the media established that Trunks' new form does or doesn't posess god ki? From his statements (being able to sense Goku and Vegeta's ki in while in Blue form when he couldn't previously) and visual media (blue aura, and particles surrounding his aura just as they do in god ki users), its seems as he does. Those particles didn't surround his aura before obtaining this form, also lending credence to him becoming a god ki user.
There seems to be more allusions to the fact that he does than that he doesn't. How he obtained it, I have no idea. He did battle with Goku and Vegeta multiple times in their Blue forms, and fought Black in his Rose form as well before obtaining this form. Maybe he absorbed it somehow?
Until there's official word one way or the other, I don't think the wiki should outright say he does or doesn't.
SSJR In The Manga
I think its a little vague to say this form has appeared in the manga yet and clearly that panel in the showing him a side view doesn't clarify that he's super saiyan rage. We probably should wait until next chapter to decide that because toyotaro is doing the manga in slight different direction so maybe super saiyan rage would appear later. Ankhael (talk) 13:19, February 3, 2017 (UTC)
There is zero evidence to say that Super Saiyan Rage appeared in the manga and was only really included because the scene in question is practically where Trunks transformed in the anime.
No such thing happened in the manga. His eyes never went blank as the page said they did. Any power boost he received was minimal and was obtained by training with Vegeta. Plus he just caught them off guard.
I agree with you, there is no evidence, i guess they think so because of that panel image which is really vague, and everyone else opinion on youtube lol, it doesn't make it so lol. I dont think they should put in this article until more chapters come out suggesting that he does.--Ankhael (talk) 01:42, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
Yeah they used one panel as evidence when it's the one where he's at an angle and he has a crease in his face anyway but that shouldn't matter because he clearly has pupils in every other panel.
I don't know how this is even a thing, there was obviously no transformation shown or mentioned nor does he look like it.
It's the mangas equivalent to Trunks' Super Saiyan Rage in the anime. There are quite a few differences but that is because the anime/manga do things differently. Like when Future Trunks powers up his Super Saiyan 2 form, in the anime it is just him using the form's normal maximum power, while in the manga it's a whole new enhancement that puts him on par with SS3 - these two are quite different, but due to being equivalents are featured on the same page. In the case of SSRage, the anime has Trunks gain a new form out of anger to hold of Black and Zamasu long enough for Goku/Vegeta to escape, while the manga has Trunks power up through anger and hold off Black and Zamasu long enough for Goku/Vegeta to escape. Different, but still the equivalent.--Neffyarious (talk) 02:52, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
Naw man, you forget trunks is shown to be stronger in the manga than in the anime, this is shown when match ssj3 goku and goku had to go god mode to beat trunks. In the manga when can assume that trunks gain the strength he has when he trained with vegeta which would make him even stronger in the manga. This is not ssjr or equivalent because its just ssj2 more stronger. he's simply stronger and able to hold off black and zamasu, its as simple as that its not super saiyan rage. --Ankhael (talk) 04:41, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
We should take out its appearance in the manga because it is clearly just trunks being stronger from the result of his training with vegeta. Maybe trunks would use the form a little later in the upcoming chapters but as of now we shouldn't edit the page saying it has appear in the manga when there is not enough data to support that claim --Ankhael (talk) 04:48, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
See that's contradictory there though, you're saying the anime and manga do things differently yet then saying that it was Super Saiyan Rage just because it was the equivalent scene. Yes they do both do things differently as is the case here where the anime had Trunks undergo a further transformation in order to hold off Black and Zamasu whereas in the manga he does not.
This "Strengthened Super Saiyan 2" which is being treated as it's own thing is even worse because that was just made up out of nowhere and isn't it's own form. Nonsense like that bring this wiki down.
In the manga they never once said that Trunks powered up through anger. He was shown to have trained in the past with Vegeta and that would be why he is stronger and that reason only which obviously is not anything to do with anger nor is it the equivalent of Super Saiyan Rage which was through anger.
It's literally just a similar scene with the same Super Saiyan 2 form so should not be included on the page at all. Or at the very least wait for a consensus or the next chapter.Bullza (talk) 06:48, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
How about this, I'm up for removing this information until the manga's "Future" Trunks arc has finished, but when it has; if no (more equivalent) equivalent of SSRage appears in the future chapters, then the information will be added back in.--Neffyarious (talk) 12:44, February 4, 2017 (UTC)
Well I'm all for removing it for now but why on Earth would you put it back in if the form never appears at all? There's not going to be an equivalent for everything. In the anime Goku used Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken against Hit but the equivalent for that in the manga was just Super Saiyan Blue.
@Neffyarious I agree with Bullza, its just super saiyan 2, toyotaro decided to go with a strong trained ssj2 to hold off black and zamasu. Where as in the anime they had him transform. Just like the example use with goku vs hit. Same scenarios different transformations.
Yah your right, SSB and SSBKK are manga and anime equivalents, that's why they're pages mention (or should mention I haven't checked in a while) that things occur differently in the manga and anime. In this case though rage-amplified SS2 does not deserve it's own page, so it's just talked about on the SSRage page.--Neffyarious (talk) 08:23, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
But nothing suggested this was a rage amplified SSJ2. If anything he seemed much more angry rage induced when he thought Mai had been killed. This information should just be put on the strenghtened SSJ2 page really even though that page never should have existed considering that form isn't officially a thing.Bullza (talk) 08:20, February 7, 2017 (UTC)
had the angry vein thing on his forehead, his eyes went blank (which represents rage), and he suddenly became strong enough to beat back Black (for a few moment), so it is a rage boost. Strengthened SS2 is not exactly a form, it's a power up - like how Super Saiyan Full Power is not a form but a mastery.--Neffyarious (talk) 10:42, February 7, 2017 (UTC)
Except his eyes didn't go blank, you can clearly see the pupil on the left side of his eye which is very noticeable when you zoom in on the picture.
Trunks had a vein on his head when he fought Black in Chapter 15. He had a vein when fought Dabura in Chapter 16.
He became strong enough to knock Black back because he grew stronger training with Vegeta in the present in the Gravity room. Trunks did the same thing in the anime just before fighting back to back with Goku way before he had Super Saiyan Rage.
Super Saiyan Full Power was officially a thing that was mentioned and made clear. There was nothing ever said about a strengthened Super Saiyan 2 form or it being mastered.
@Neffyarious Really this again?? With no proof still? You add that back in, with no proof. No offense but You making the wiki look stupid honestly. There is no equivalent ssj2 to rage ok, manga and anime different ok just accept that rage has not appeared in the manga yet. Ankhael (talk) 05:08, May 13, 2017 (UTC)
We have already proved the point that rage in the manga as of yet. Just because you are a moderator doesn't give the right to put your theories without facts into the articles and block others from changing your wrong doing that's wrong. Your bigger than this Ankhael (talk) 05:15, May 13, 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Ankhael, this is getting worse as time goes. This wiki had some problems with users inserting their theories, headcanons and fan-fiction into pages, but this makes it worse. Putting back the information if the form never shows up? Seriously? There are transformations that never appeared in the manga, and that does not means SSBKK is an equivalent to the God in the manga.05:39, May 13, 2017 (UTC)
I was re-adding it cuz the form's artwork seems to indicate that it and strengthened Super Saiyan 2 are the same (since the anime uses SS1's hair for Trunks' SS1 and SS2, while the manga uses the SSRage hair for SS2 Trunks and his "new" strengthened version). I don't really mind though, so just undo my edits here and on the Future Trunks article, and remake the Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 page if you really want, but if you're gonna undo SSS2 being added to this article, then make sure to re-add it separately everywhere else.--Neffyarious (talk) 13:27, May 13, 2017 (UTC)
SS Rage does not have a double aura. SS Blue Kaio-Ken indisputably has a double aura since it has the Kaio-Ken aura on top of the SS Blue aura. However the blue Trunks gains in SS Rage around his body is simply PART of the forms aura. If SS Rage is listed as a form with double aura then the same could be said about SS Rosé, which with that logic would even have a TRIPLE aura of red, pink and purple. TokiTobashiHit (talk) 14:44, February 28, 2017 (UTC)
While "Super Saiyan Rage" is a much better name, the DBH cardlist for the form actually has the url (in English) as "Anger" instead of Rage, since "Rage" is a fan translation, while the url is official, I suppose we have to use "Super Saiyan Anger".--Neffyarious (talk) 12:11, July 6, 2017 (UTC)
The Name is Rage
The show, dokkan battle, and literally everywhere else says it's the power of rage, why would it be called anger. There's more evidence pointing that it's called rage. DBH is a japanese only game, what in Zeno's name makes you think they'd want to put effort into translating it right, Anger was most likely badly translated, I mean it says saiya instead of saiyan. DeadlyLad (talk) 03:27, November 18, 2017 (UTC)
It's only assumptions. If you want to even REFERENCE anime material it's called Super Trunks. DBH is the ONLY game that ever gave it a name and if that's how it's translated, than sorry that's how it's translated. You better pray to Zeno that FUNimation gives it a name if you want it so badly. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 00:50, November 21, 2017 (UTC)
Well I mean technically イカリ means both rage and anger, but let's be honest here. The closest thing we got to the name is "The power of Rage" which again, is from the show and Dokkan battle, it just makes a ton more sense to call it Rage, rather than anger. Also Super Saiyan Anger doesn't sound as cool, you're not losing anything by changing it to Rage, in fact it's for the better
- Well in cruchyroll's translation of episode 65, they translate "ikari" as "rage" in a sentence relating to this form, so I suppose it might be more accurate than the DBH url.--Neffyarious (talk) 21:10, November 25, 2017 (UTC)
- Anger is the official name. That's why it was renamed from Rage. DragonEmeperor (talk) 09:30, January 17, 2018 (UTC)
"Usage of Super Saiyan Grade III"
- He does it while powering up into the form.--Neffyarious (talk) 15:59, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
- No, his muscles buff up. Muscles buff up when going SS, SS2, or SS3. So it's headcanon. Shugesh (talk) 22:46, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
I feel bothered by this as well. Many forms make the muscles swell somewhat, and Trunks' don't swell particularly large like Grade 3, and ultimately they shrink back down to regular size too. If anything the muscles looked like a subdued Grade 2. It's also inconsistent with how Trunks' hair in Grade 3 was shown to still resemble how it was in the Cell arc earlier in the Black arc, yet his hair doesn't really exaggerate like it did beforehand during the transformation into rage. There's no indication in any other material or sources that Grade 3 was an influence on the form in any way. Rather than say "he uses SS Grade 3 while powering up into the form" it's better off being said that the muscles briefly grow in a manner similar to that of Grade 2 before shrinking back down, but only as a descriptor of the form rather than any indication of how the form works. Gildeds (talk) 17:22, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
That's exactly how I had interpreted it. On another subject, I don't believe stating this form is a "power-up to Super Saiyan 2" is exactly valid. It's never stated and the only thing supporting it is the labels on a box. If that was substantial evidence we should just put it as a power-up to Super Saiyan, as Dokkan Battle labels Trunks in this form as Future Trunks (Super Saiyan). Shugesh (talk) 23:14, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
Official merchandise is official, so calling it a SS2 power up is fine, no need to mention that it's a SS power up, as that comes with it being an SS2 power up. The muscles buff up a lot more than SS when going SSI.--Neffyarious (talk) 23:17, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
But if we're counting a toy as proof, then why are you disregarding Dokkan Battle's proof? And muscles buffing up doesn't prove that Trunks transforms into a Super Saiyan Grade 3. It's just your headcanon. Shugesh (talk) 23:26, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
I'm not discounting Dokkan? I'm just saying there's no need to mention it's a powered up Super Saiyan, as that would be redundant due to it already being mentioned as a powered up SS2. A SS buffing up muscles is proof of entering a Power Stressed stage.--Neffyarious (talk) 23:33, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
And when has it been mentioned at being a powered up SS2? The manga Trunks' form is different than the anime's. And any SS form has increased muscle mass. SS2 gives the user larger muscles than SS and SS3 give the user larger muscles than SS2. Plus, it has been known that the SSG forms give the user a more slender appearance. Could this not instead apply that Trunks' tapping into of God Ki results in a decreased muscle mass? Buffed up muscles doesn't prove anything. Where has it been stated in the series? If it hasn't been stated by a guide or a quote it's headcanon. Shugesh (talk) 23:38, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
Its said to be SS2 by the official merch, but its stronger than normal SS2 - so its a powered up SS2. Trunks gets the Power Stressed look before he takes the form on (he has normal SS aura). This form does not have god ki as far as we know.--Neffyarious (talk) 23:45, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
Your argument is a fallacy. If it's said to be SS2 by merchandise then why are you ignoring Dokkan Battle calling it Super Saiyan? It's not Super Saiyan 2. And if you want to imply that this form uses Grade III because he buffs up and down but deny that Trunks' aura in this form shows the same aura as Blue, Rose, etc. that's also fallacious. Shugesh (talk) 23:51, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
As Ive been saying, I'm not ignoring Dokkan, it's just redundant to say on the page that it's a Super Saiyan when saying that it's a Super Saiyan 2 already makes this obvious. It's fact that he buffs up into a Power Stressed, but that aura is not always god ki, base Black used it and he does not have god ki.--Neffyarious (talk) 23:56, February 9, 2018 (UTC)
But Dokkan never stated it was SS2. It only stated that it was normal SS, which means that you ARE placing one source over another, intentionally or not. Therefore, SS2 should only be used as an alternate name and not actually referenced in the article, since SSA being a powered-up version of SS2 has no true basis. And base Goku Black's aura DID have particles, but it was never wavy like SSB and SSR, which Super Saiyan Anger is. Shugesh (talk) 00:04, February 10, 2018 (UTC)
Dokkan is a bit here and there when it comes to forms. It treats Super Saiyan as the same as grade 3 Goku, and Kale's Berserker isn't even treated as Super Saiyan there despite statements that it is. If sources conflict then it's easier to go with a source that isn't wishy-washy with how things are like Dokkan is in my opinion. A lot of things can be called "Super Saiyan" in Dokkan, but if a source calls something "Super Saiyan 2" that narrow things down in terms of what you can describe the form as. Xenoverse 2 also just uses the transformation as SS2 but with a blue glow for one of the fights. Either way, it's clearly not just "Super Saiyan", so Dokkan's interpretation holds less weight. There's nothing wrong with some sources holding more "weight" so to speak. Gildeds (talk) 03:59, February 10, 2018 (UTC)
Aint placing one source over another, as I said stating it's a "powered up SS2" already means its a powered up SS, but saying it's a "powered up SS" neglects the info that its an SS. God ki + SS = SSGSS, so SSA can't possess god ki based on current info. If ya want I could change the mention of Third Grade on the page to Power Stressed to make it more ambig.--Neffyarious (talk) 17:08, February 10, 2018 (UTC)
I'd be fine with a change to mentioning "Power Stressed" since that's basically just mentioning how the muscles are swelled up briefly in the form, which is true. Gildeds (talk) 00:20, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
No, SSGSS is the product of mastering God Ki, and then strengthening the God Ki empowered Super Saiyan states until they surpass SSG. Trunks can sense God Ki therefore he possesses it, so just like with Vegeta he trained to acquire it and it had to be Vegeta who trained him(duh) he just did not master god ki is all. If he was to master god ki, his aura and hair color would change to SSGSS and that would be the only difference. SSAnger is him using the god ki with SS2, only explanation that makes sense. FlatZone (talk) 06:06, October 6, 2018 (UTC)
Unnecessary spoilers in the video for people who watch the English dub.
Can we remove the video? Or edit it? Some people come here to see what something is, like I did with Trunk's new form. I follow the English dub, so 15 seconds in to the video my whole experience of this season was ruined. It was unnecessary to say "this form is responsible for *what was said in the video*". At least put a spoiler warning for God's sake!Game Thruz (talk) 20:38, May 1, 2018 (UTC)
Video is made by Wikia. Only they can edit it. Also, if you want to avoid spoilers, then just stop reading articles about content you haven't seen yet.