Talk: Super Saiyan God SS Evolved

Blue Completed

Am I the only one who noticed that the Grand Priest described this form as focusing Blue's power inside Vegeta's body? Isn't that exactly what Completed Super Saiyan Blue is in the manga? KiraraKidohara (talk) 15:02, January 14, 2018 (UTC)

This is a wiki, why are you using fan names Sandxamun (talk) 02:59, January 15, 2018 (UTC)

Correction: This is a Canon Wiki. Also because there's isn't an official name yet. What placeholder name would you prefer? --Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Things I do [mod] 08:39, January 16, 2018 (UTC)

 this isnt a canon wiki. it has info on the entire dragon ball franchise.. it's called Dragon Ball wiki for a reason Nikon23 12:40, January 15, 2018 (UTC)

I think what he means is this is a wiki and as such information should only come from respective canons (canons in general as in each individual canon, not THE canon compared to other canons being non canon to it). Which is true, this is a wiki, all of the info needs to be correct and consice (especially when it comes to conflicting canons that should be noted as such but I digress). Koibito888 (talk) 04:53, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Nature

Anyone else think this may be just the power of Ultra Instinct combined with Super Saiyan Blue? Banan14kab 14:59, January 20, 2018 (UTC)

From the statement by Grand Priest last episode, it is stated that the form is just the limit-breaking of regular Super Saiyan Blue. It is not the combination of it with Ultra Instinct. ConTraZ VII (talk) 23:45, January 20, 2018 (UTC)

The Grand Priest stated that Vegeta had broken his limits just like Goku. Almost correct, yes, it very much IS the power of Goku's broken shell state but with Blue on top of it. BUT that form also has nothing to do with Ultra Instinct. Koibito888 (talk) 04:35, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Misconceptions

Everyone seems to be confused on how this, Goku's broken shell state, and UI all works. To the point where I couldn't figure out which to post this too so I'll just post it here at the newest and probably most confused form since all of it leads to the confusion of this form.

First of all some people have said that what Vegeta is doing is not the same thing as Goku? The Grand Priest literally stated that Vegeta broke his limits 'just like Goku'. This form is literally the same thing as Goku's broken shell state, minus UI, plus SSJB.

Secondly Goku's broken shell state has nothing to do with Ultra Instinct. Yes it was confusing that Goku was using these at the same time but he achieved UI by coincidence by still fighting. The exact workings are conjecture but the explanations given to each make it impossible for UI to be tied to this form and this form should NOT be called 'Ultra Instinct sign' because inherently it has nothing to do with UI. Vegeta DID in fact achieve 'breaking his shell' but in Blue and he was not granted UI from it. There is no 'form' and 'technique' of UI, there is only the technique that Goku stumbled upon under the same circumstances that he stumbled upon his 'broken shell' state. 

Ultimately the UI -sign- page should be renamed and corrected to reflect that the power boost and appearances changes, the actual form on it's own, is not tied to UI. The form should be treated as the form that Vegeta has Blue stacked on. As it stands we have this wiki suggesting this form is related to UI, that Vegeta breaking his shell is not the same thing as Goku breaking his shell, and that Vegeta's new form is somehow unique on it's own and isn't the product of the 'broken shell' state with Blue on it, all of these notions are very incorrect and need to be fixed.

Also, what is all this about saying Goku is also using 'Beyond Blue Kaioken' when he's clearly not in the same state? Boy this is a mess. Koibito888 (talk) 04:47, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

It was officially named in Dokkan Battle. There's no need to rename it. As anything you create would only be a fan fiction name. The problem lies with the wording of the form's article. It implies it is related to it rather than just saying it only uses Ultra Instinct. And about the Kaio-ken, it was said that Goku was pushing above his limits on his Kaio-ken, not that it is Beyond Blue Kaioken. Again, wording needs work. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 05:16, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Was that given in Dokkan? Wow that was a crap decision. Yeah, that is the problem is the wording. But it doesn't even 'use Ultra Instinct' like it's purely coincidental that Goku reached UI and this form, they have nothing to do with one another and that really does seem to need to be explained to most people it really needs to be a prominent note on the page. Yes Goku is pushing above his limits because that's what Kaioken does. That's not special or a new state of Kaioken, Kaioken just already multiplies the users power passed it's limits hence the whole 'it hurts you' thing. The wording is waaaay off putting that first and foremost as if it's a new thing. Goku didn't get a new Kaioken lol. All of said pages need a lot of work. Especially this stuff about Vegeta, his form definitely is the product of the same exact 'broken shell' state (which should be the actual name given that that's the phrase they used to describe it in pretty much every instance of either of these characters breaking their limits) with Blue on top of it and not some arbitrary new thing. Koibito888 (talk) 05:49, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

I mean, they do call Goku's version "Ultra Instinct" because it seems to have given Goku Ultra Instinct's technique. We should wait before we change it. Wait for confirmation and an official name from FUNimation but of course change the wording. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 06:28, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

It didn't though. Nothing about a power boost reached by 'breaking your shell' could grant UI logically, and Vegeta proves it. There is no 'Goku's version' there is 'breaking your shell' and that's it. Vegeta 'broke his shell' just like Goku (as said by the Grand Priest) and it did no such thing, it did not give him UI's technique. It was the circumstances of Goku being pushed to a limit where he was unconscious but still pushing/fighting which just so happens to emulate UI, thereby granting him the technique but the form itself literally does not have anything to do with UI. Hell later on Goku even activates UI and dodges several of Kale's blasts BEFORE he activates the power up showing the two are separate and he can activate UI independantly of the form. Yeah I'ma wait on changing things being why I'm here, but honestly I don't know what I could change it to without correcting it properly. Koibito888 (talk) 06:52, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Don't change it without a source. You should already know Dragon Ball Super has been having problems about naming transformations. Let's try wait for when and if it appears in the manga. DragonEmeperor (talk) 06:59, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

That's the plan. But the problem is what's placed up right now is incorrect and does contradict the source. There may not be a source for a name but there certainly is a source for the fact that Vegeta's thing is literally the same thing as Goku's minus UI and plus blue. It was directly stated he broke his shell just like Goku, he just happened to be in blue at the time. Whether Vegeta can do it in base or if he has to use Blue as a sort of jumping off point first could be debated, but the 'breaking of one's shell' by now is directly shown to be one thing and also separate from UI. Koibito888 (talk) 07:35, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, about this, breaking the shells here almost similar meaning with breaking the limits. For the power scale, it's really messed up as even Goku in SSBK cannot even fight Jiren before but he can do it now, without struggle. And you can see Vegeta's new form is on par with Goku's SSGK. ConTraZ VII (talk) 11:08, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Yes but what matters is what the form is. We know it's him breaking his shell, we know it gave him the same physical transformation as Goku's except in Blue, that's what the form is. Now this is speculation but it's likely Vegeta is only on par with SSBK for the moment as this form will in fact be on par with Goku's broken shell state as shown in the ending image with the two of them standing together. This form is meant to match this sometime, which makes sense as it factually is the same power up. Koibito888 (talk) 11:50, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Saiyan Power, remember? That's the "explanation" Super gives for these magical power-ups that occur in 10 minutes flat, even if Saiyan Power requires near-death experiences and the time to heal from them.

Orion (T-B-C) 11:13, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

So it's an endless cycle. By the way, Vegeta's new form is identical to the Super Saiyan Second Grade back when he fought Cell. In term of body build I mean. They love environment and love to recycle so yeah they do recycle it again this time. Let's just wait now for further official release. ConTraZ VII (talk) 11:20, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

It's not at all though. The hair is wilder but he bulks up none and nothing about what he did was what SSJ Grade 2 was about. What the form is identical to is Goku's broken shell state but with Blue. Vegeta literally was directly stated to break his shell 'just like Goku' and it gave him the exact same physical changes - the eyes with the pupils and sparkling aura, just with Blue on top of it. Goku's new 'broken shell' state is what Vegeta's new form is identical to. The only reason one would think this is the case is because they used similar visuals in the transformation into it, likely on purpose as a reference but that is all it has similar to the form, nothing else about it is like Grade 2, especially not enough to infer any practical similarities to the form. The show has confirmed enough that all of this should be obvious by now. Koibito888 (talk) 11:50, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Name

From what I can see the most common fan term used for this form is "Super Saiyan Royal Blue". Should we use that as a temporary name until we get an official one (like how we used "Ultra Super Saiyan" for Third Grade)? Or just keep the current temp name?--Neffyarious (talk) 00:04, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

No. ~ Yon ~Visit my talk page! 02:07, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

The current temp name is fine IMO. It fits with the dialogue used to actually describe it so far. We don't know anything except it's somehow Super Saiyan Blue, but "beyond". Gildeds (talk) 02:12, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

Quoting the Trivia: This is the first Super Saiyan transformation Vegeta achieves for the first time on-screen. The other transformations he achieves (Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2nd Grade, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan Blue, and Super Saiyan God in the manga) were only shown after he had already achieved them off-screen.

Are you people sure Super Saiyan 2 doesn't count as the first one? Was it ever stated he achieved Super Saiyan 2 before becoming Majin Vegeta? Masterwar15 (talk) 19:23, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

Vegeta never achieved Super Saiyan 2 before he becomes Majin Vegeta. ConTraZ VII (talk) 07:55, February 5, 2018 (UTC)

Current name is fine. Even Piccolo said Vegeta was "Beyond Blue". Orion (T-B-C) 09:50, February 5, 2018 (UTC)

Just a fun fact. The "beyond" and "ascended" share the same meaning. Both of them showing the "upgraded" version of original form but it is not the second form of it. Both of them showing the increase in muscle mass. It's just a matter of term used. ConTraZ VII (talk) 10:04, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

There's no proof Majin Vegeta went SSJ2 for the first time. His lack of surprise at activating the form suggests he was already aware he had it. --Stryzzar (talk --"Genius runs in my family... so does psychotherapy... Hey, did I tell you guys I have an IQ of 188? CUZ I DO!" File:Izzy Returns.pngBold textItalic textInternal linkExternal link (remember http:// prefix)Level 2 headlineEmbedded fileFile linkMathematical formula (LaTeX)Ignore wiki formattingYour signature with timestampHorizontal line (use sparingly)Add photovet-imagebuttonmore + This is a talk page. Please remember to sign your posts using four tildes (--"Genius runs in my family... so does psychotherapy... Hey, did I tell you guys I have an IQ of 188? CUZ I DO!" File:Izzy Returns.png 10:42, February 6, 2018 (UTC)).

Name

From what I can see the most common fan term used for this form is "Super Saiyan Royal Blue". Should we use that as a temporary name until we get an official one (like how we used "Ultra Super Saiyan" for Third Grade)? Or just keep the current temp name?--Neffyarious (talk) 00:04, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

No. ~ Yon ~Visit my talk page! 02:07, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

The current temp name is fine IMO. It fits with the dialogue used to actually describe it so far. We don't know anything except it's somehow Super Saiyan Blue, but "beyond". Gildeds (talk) 02:12, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

Quoting the Trivia: This is the first Super Saiyan transformation Vegeta achieves for the first time on-screen. The other transformations he achieves (Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2nd Grade, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan Blue, and Super Saiyan God in the manga) were only shown after he had already achieved them off-screen.

Are you people sure Super Saiyan 2 doesn't count as the first one? Was it ever stated he achieved Super Saiyan 2 before becoming Majin Vegeta? Masterwar15 (talk) 19:23, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

Vegeta never achieved Super Saiyan 2 before he becomes Majin Vegeta. ConTraZ VII (talk) 07:55, February 5, 2018 (UTC)

Current name is fine. Even Piccolo said Vegeta was "Beyond Blue". Orion (T-B-C) 09:50, February 5, 2018 (UTC)

Just a fun fact. The "beyond" and "ascended" share the same meaning. Both of them showing the "upgraded" version of original form but it is not the second form of it. Both of them showing the increase in muscle mass. It's just a matter of term used. ConTraZ VII (talk) 10:04, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

There's no proof Majin Vegeta went SSJ2 for the first time. His lack of surprise at activating the form suggests he was already aware he had it. --Stryzzar (talk 10:41, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

Did you want to say that Vegeta has achieved SS2 before Majin Vegeta but he cannot attain it again until he becomes Majin Vegeta? ConTraZ VII (talk) 09:09, February 7, 2018 (UTC)

New Name

Just renamed it after the official release of the form came out in DB Heroes. Someone fix the infobox. I don't know how to do that shit. ExyleCage (talk) 20:29, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Except that we do not know what name Dragon Ball Heroes uses it for this new form. "Limit Breaker Prince" is the name of the card's ability. Please do not add false information until otherwise it gets officially confirmed/revealed. Bargeta (talk) 21:04, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

It's MUCH more official then the false name given on this wiki, which is known for false information in the first place. "Beyond Super Saiyan Blue"? It should at LEAST be labeled as a placeholder title. Limit Breaker Prince at least has an official source. Beyond Super Saiyan Blue does not. ExyleCage (talk) 21:07, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

That'd be like naming Goku "Kamehameha". At least "Beyond Super Saiyan Blue" is something that's mentioned in-universe (Piccolo in particular keeps repeating that Vegeta is "beyond Blue").

Orion (T-B-C) 21:11, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

ExyleCage is incredibly right this wiki is very poor in it's handling of information and speculation and this is one of the worst examples yet. Like all of you are saying 'oh they said beyond Blue so many times' but every single one of you is disregarding that the Grand Priest said Vegeta literally did the same thing as Goku, and his changes were the exact same as Goku, and that Goku achieved this state without Blue making it have nothing to do with Blue or SSJ transformations, or that the Grand Priest said that Vegeta literally 'broke his shell' or broke his limit. Everyone is taking a phrase and using it to discredit actual statements and actual on screen showings of what's going on and it's absolutely ridiculous. Limit Break is the name everyone gave to Goku prior, the form was proven to have nothing to do with UI and was achieved by breaking his limit, Vegeta then broke his limit and did the same thing and now the ability is Limit Breaker like come on people. OBVIOUSLY Vegeta is 'beyond blue', everything past it is, Rage is technically 'beyond Blue', Blue Kaioken is 'beyond Blue', this name is garbage and has no real source other than charaters saying he vaguely did something that put him passed Blue - when actual descriptions of the form, the comparison to the actual descriptions of Goku's form which is the same, the ability title, all of it is far more specific and actually describing what the form is. Fans think this is an actual extension of SSJB as if it's a Saiyan only transformation that requires Blue when obviously Goku did the same thing without. The info is frankly fucked right now and we should be doing something to fix it but instead speculation reigns supreme on this topic when there is already in series confirmation of what these forms are and we shouldn't be speculating passed that. This name is literally contradictory to what the form is. Hopefully Heroes names it right because they already screwed up hard with 'Ultra Instinct -Sign-' when the form and the technique have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Hopefully we can do away with this awful name for the form that makes literally no sense and is taking part in confusing the fans further. It should at least be marked as a placeholder title like ExyleCage said because right now the level of speculation and incorrect info on this topic is unacceptable for a wiki which should be a solid information source. Limit Breaker would be a far more appropriate placeholder title at least, we're obviously working with placeholders anyway so we should at least use one that's actually correct. Koibito888 (talk) 22:38, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

This form aint the same thing as Goku's Ultra Instinct form. They're both limit breakers but aint the same limit breaker. Also ya know Goku was in SSB when he attained UI right? The "beyond SSB" name was marked as a placeholder, but someone removed it. Also, no swearing.--Neffyarious (talk) 22:57, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Even Herms makes fun of this Wiki now for putting that name. ConTraZ VII (talk) 23:07, February 16, 2018 (UTC)