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Blue Completed

Am I the only one who noticed that the Grand Priest described this form as focusing Blue's power inside Vegeta's body? Isn't that exactly what Completed Super Saiyan Blue is in the manga? KiraraKidohara (talk) 15:02, January 14, 2018 (UTC)

This is a wiki, why are you using fan names Sandxamun (talk) 02:59, January 15, 2018 (UTC)

Correction: This is a Canon Wiki. Also because there's isn't an official name yet. What placeholder name would you prefer? --Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Things I do [mod] 08:39, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
 this isnt a canon wiki. it has info on the entire dragon ball franchise.. it's called Dragon Ball wiki for a reason Nikon23 12:40, January 15, 2018 (UTC)
I think what he means is this is a wiki and as such information should only come from respective canons (canons in general as in each individual canon, not THE canon compared to other canons being non canon to it). Which is true, this is a wiki, all of the info needs to be correct and consice (especially when it comes to conflicting canons that should be noted as such but I digress). Koibito888 (talk) 04:53, January 23, 2018 (UTC)
Nature

Anyone else think this may be just the power of Ultra Instinct combined with Super Saiyan Blue? Banan14kab 14:59, January 20, 2018 (UTC)

From the statement by Grand Priest last episode, it is stated that the form is just the limit-breaking of regular Super Saiyan Blue. It is not the combination of it with Ultra Instinct. ConTraZ VII (talk) 23:45, January 20, 2018 (UTC)
The Grand Priest stated that Vegeta had broken his limits just like Goku. Almost correct, yes, it very much IS the power of Goku's broken shell state but with Blue on top of it. BUT that form also has nothing to do with Ultra Instinct. Koibito888 (talk) 04:35, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Misconceptions

Everyone seems to be confused on how this, Goku's broken shell state, and UI all works. To the point where I couldn't figure out which to post this too so I'll just post it here at the newest and probably most confused form since all of it leads to the confusion of this form.

First of all some people have said that what Vegeta is doing is not the same thing as Goku? The Grand Priest literally stated that Vegeta broke his limits 'just like Goku'. This form is literally the same thing as Goku's broken shell state, minus UI, plus SSJB.

Secondly Goku's broken shell state has nothing to do with Ultra Instinct. Yes it was confusing that Goku was using these at the same time but he achieved UI by coincidence by still fighting. The exact workings are conjecture but the explanations given to each make it impossible for UI to be tied to this form and this form should NOT be called 'Ultra Instinct sign' because inherently it has nothing to do with UI. Vegeta DID in fact achieve 'breaking his shell' but in Blue and he was not granted UI from it. There is no 'form' and 'technique' of UI, there is only the technique that Goku stumbled upon under the same circumstances that he stumbled upon his 'broken shell' state. 

Ultimately the UI -sign- page should be renamed and corrected to reflect that the power boost and appearances changes, the actual form on it's own, is not tied to UI. The form should be treated as the form that Vegeta has Blue stacked on. As it stands we have this wiki suggesting this form is related to UI, that Vegeta breaking his shell is not the same thing as Goku breaking his shell, and that Vegeta's new form is somehow unique on it's own and isn't the product of the 'broken shell' state with Blue on it, all of these notions are very incorrect and need to be fixed.

Also, what is all this about saying Goku is also using 'Beyond Blue Kaioken' when he's clearly not in the same state? Boy this is a mess. Koibito888 (talk) 04:47, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

It was officially named in Dokkan Battle. There's no need to rename it. As anything you create would only be a fan fiction name. The problem lies with the wording of the form's article. It implies it is related to it rather than just saying it only uses Ultra Instinct. And about the Kaio-ken, it was said that Goku was pushing above his limits on his Kaio-ken, not that it is Beyond Blue Kaioken. Again, wording needs work. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 05:16, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Was that given in Dokkan? Wow that was a crap decision. Yeah, that is the problem is the wording. But it doesn't even 'use Ultra Instinct' like it's purely coincidental that Goku reached UI and this form, they have nothing to do with one another and that really does seem to need to be explained to most people it really needs to be a prominent note on the page. Yes Goku is pushing above his limits because that's what Kaioken does. That's not special or a new state of Kaioken, Kaioken just already multiplies the users power passed it's limits hence the whole 'it hurts you' thing. The wording is waaaay off putting that first and foremost as if it's a new thing. Goku didn't get a new Kaioken lol. All of said pages need a lot of work. Especially this stuff about Vegeta, his form definitely is the product of the same exact 'broken shell' state (which should be the actual name given that that's the phrase they used to describe it in pretty much every instance of either of these characters breaking their limits) with Blue on top of it and not some arbitrary new thing. Koibito888 (talk) 05:49, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

I mean, they do call Goku's version "Ultra Instinct" because it seems to have given Goku Ultra Instinct's technique. We should wait before we change it. Wait for confirmation and an official name from FUNimation but of course change the wording. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 06:28, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

It didn't though. Nothing about a power boost reached by 'breaking your shell' could grant UI logically, and Vegeta proves it. There is no 'Goku's version' there is 'breaking your shell' and that's it. Vegeta 'broke his shell' just like Goku (as said by the Grand Priest) and it did no such thing, it did not give him UI's technique. It was the circumstances of Goku being pushed to a limit where he was unconscious but still pushing/fighting which just so happens to emulate UI, thereby granting him the technique but the form itself literally does not have anything to do with UI. Hell later on Goku even activates UI and dodges several of Kale's blasts BEFORE he activates the power up showing the two are separate and he can activate UI independantly of the form. Yeah I'ma wait on changing things being why I'm here, but honestly I don't know what I could change it to without correcting it properly. Koibito888 (talk) 06:52, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Don't change it without a source. You should already know Dragon Ball Super has been having problems about naming transformations. Let's try wait for when and if it appears in the manga. DragonEmeperor (talk) 06:59, January 23, 2018 (UTC)
That's the plan. But the problem is what's placed up right now is incorrect and does contradict the source. There may not be a source for a name but there certainly is a source for the fact that Vegeta's thing is literally the same thing as Goku's minus UI and plus blue. It was directly stated he broke his shell just like Goku, he just happened to be in blue at the time. Whether Vegeta can do it in base or if he has to use Blue as a sort of jumping off point first could be debated, but the 'breaking of one's shell' by now is directly shown to be one thing and also separate from UI. Koibito888 (talk) 07:35, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, about this, breaking the shells here almost similar meaning with breaking the limits. For the power scale, it's really messed up as even Goku in SSBK cannot even fight Jiren before but he can do it now, without struggle. And you can see Vegeta's new form is on par with Goku's SSGK. ConTraZ VII (talk) 11:08, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Yes but what matters is what the form is. We know it's him breaking his shell, we know it gave him the same physical transformation as Goku's except in Blue, that's what the form is. Now this is speculation but it's likely Vegeta is only on par with SSBK for the moment as this form will in fact be on par with Goku's broken shell state as shown in the ending image with the two of them standing together. This form is meant to match this sometime, which makes sense as it factually is the same power up. Koibito888 (talk) 11:50, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Saiyan Power, remember? That's the "explanation" Super gives for these magical power-ups that occur in 10 minutes flat, even if Saiyan Power requires near-death experiences and the time to heal from them.

Orion (T-B-C) 11:13, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

So it's an endless cycle. By the way, Vegeta's new form is identical to the Super Saiyan Second Grade back when he fought Cell. In term of body build I mean. They love environment and love to recycle so yeah they do recycle it again this time. Let's just wait now for further official release. ConTraZ VII (talk) 11:20, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

It's not at all though. The hair is wilder but he bulks up none and nothing about what he did was what SSJ Grade 2 was about. What the form is identical to is Goku's broken shell state but with Blue. Vegeta literally was directly stated to break his shell 'just like Goku' and it gave him the exact same physical changes - the eyes with the pupils and sparkling aura, just with Blue on top of it. Goku's new 'broken shell' state is what Vegeta's new form is identical to. The only reason one would think this is the case is because they used similar visuals in the transformation into it, likely on purpose as a reference but that is all it has similar to the form, nothing else about it is like Grade 2, especially not enough to infer any practical similarities to the form. The show has confirmed enough that all of this should be obvious by now. Koibito888 (talk) 11:50, January 23, 2018 (UTC)

Name

From what I can see the most common fan term used for this form is "Super Saiyan Royal Blue". Should we use that as a temporary name until we get an official one (like how we used "Ultra Super Saiyan" for Third Grade)? Or just keep the current temp name?--Neffyarious (talk) 00:04, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

No. ~ Yon ~Great King Cold SDBH World Mission artworkVisit my talk page! 02:07, February 4, 2018 (UTC)
The current temp name is fine IMO. It fits with the dialogue used to actually describe it so far. We don't know anything except it's somehow Super Saiyan Blue, but "beyond". Gildeds (talk) 02:12, February 4, 2018 (UTC)
Quoting the Trivia: This is the first Super Saiyan transformation Vegeta achieves for the first time on-screen. The other transformations he achieves (Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2nd Grade, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan Blue, and Super Saiyan God in the manga) were only shown after he had already achieved them off-screen.
Are you people sure Super Saiyan 2 doesn't count as the first one? Was it ever stated he achieved Super Saiyan 2 before becoming Majin Vegeta? Masterwar15 (talk) 19:23, February 4, 2018 (UTC)
Vegeta never achieved Super Saiyan 2 before he becomes Majin Vegeta. ConTraZ VII (talk) 07:55, February 5, 2018 (UTC)
Current name is fine. Even Piccolo said Vegeta was "Beyond Blue". Orion (T-B-C) 09:50, February 5, 2018 (UTC)
Just a fun fact. The "beyond" and "ascended" share the same meaning. Both of them showing the "upgraded" version of original form but it is not the second form of it. Both of them showing the increase in muscle mass. It's just a matter of term used. ConTraZ VII (talk) 10:04, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

There's no proof Majin Vegeta went SSJ2 for the first time. His lack of surprise at activating the form suggests he was already aware he had it. --Stryzzar (talk --"Genius runs in my family... so does psychotherapy... Hey, did I tell you guys I have an IQ of 188? CUZ I DO!" 140pxBold textItalic textInternal linkExternal link (remember http:// prefix)Level 2 headlineEmbedded fileFile linkMathematical formula (LaTeX)Ignore wiki formattingYour signature with timestampHorizontal line (use sparingly)Add photovet-imagebuttonmore + This is a talk page. Please remember to sign your posts using four tildes (--"Genius runs in my family... so does psychotherapy... Hey, did I tell you guys I have an IQ of 188? CUZ I DO!" 140px 10:42, February 6, 2018 (UTC)).

Name

From what I can see the most common fan term used for this form is "Super Saiyan Royal Blue". Should we use that as a temporary name until we get an official one (like how we used "Ultra Super Saiyan" for Third Grade)? Or just keep the current temp name?--Neffyarious (talk) 00:04, February 4, 2018 (UTC)

No. ~ Yon ~Great King Cold SDBH World Mission artworkVisit my talk page! 02:07, February 4, 2018 (UTC)
The current temp name is fine IMO. It fits with the dialogue used to actually describe it so far. We don't know anything except it's somehow Super Saiyan Blue, but "beyond". Gildeds (talk) 02:12, February 4, 2018 (UTC)
Quoting the Trivia: This is the first Super Saiyan transformation Vegeta achieves for the first time on-screen. The other transformations he achieves (Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 2nd Grade, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan Blue, and Super Saiyan God in the manga) were only shown after he had already achieved them off-screen.
Are you people sure Super Saiyan 2 doesn't count as the first one? Was it ever stated he achieved Super Saiyan 2 before becoming Majin Vegeta? Masterwar15 (talk) 19:23, February 4, 2018 (UTC)
Vegeta never achieved Super Saiyan 2 before he becomes Majin Vegeta. ConTraZ VII (talk) 07:55, February 5, 2018 (UTC)
Current name is fine. Even Piccolo said Vegeta was "Beyond Blue". Orion (T-B-C) 09:50, February 5, 2018 (UTC)
Just a fun fact. The "beyond" and "ascended" share the same meaning. Both of them showing the "upgraded" version of original form but it is not the second form of it. Both of them showing the increase in muscle mass. It's just a matter of term used. ConTraZ VII (talk) 10:04, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

There's no proof Majin Vegeta went SSJ2 for the first time. His lack of surprise at activating the form suggests he was already aware he had it. --Stryzzar (talk 10:41, February 6, 2018 (UTC)

Did you want to say that Vegeta has achieved SS2 before Majin Vegeta but he cannot attain it again until he becomes Majin Vegeta? ConTraZ VII (talk) 09:09, February 7, 2018 (UTC)

New Name

Just renamed it after the official release of the form came out in DB Heroes. Someone fix the infobox. I don't know how to do that shit. ExyleCage (talk) 20:29, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Except that we do not know what name Dragon Ball Heroes uses it for this new form. "Limit Breaker Prince" is the name of the card's ability. Please do not add false information until otherwise it gets officially confirmed/revealed. Bargeta (talk) 21:04, February 16, 2018 (UTC)


It's MUCH more official then the false name given on this wiki, which is known for false information in the first place. "Beyond Super Saiyan Blue"? It should at LEAST be labeled as a placeholder title. Limit Breaker Prince at least has an official source. Beyond Super Saiyan Blue does not. ExyleCage (talk) 21:07, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

That'd be like naming Goku "Kamehameha". At least "Beyond Super Saiyan Blue" is something that's mentioned in-universe (Piccolo in particular keeps repeating that Vegeta is "beyond Blue").

Orion (T-B-C) 21:11, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

ExyleCage is incredibly right this wiki is very poor in it's handling of information and speculation and this is one of the worst examples yet. Like all of you are saying 'oh they said beyond Blue so many times' but every single one of you is disregarding that the Grand Priest said Vegeta literally did the same thing as Goku, and his changes were the exact same as Goku, and that Goku achieved this state without Blue making it have nothing to do with Blue or SSJ transformations, or that the Grand Priest said that Vegeta literally 'broke his shell' or broke his limit. Everyone is taking a phrase and using it to discredit actual statements and actual on screen showings of what's going on and it's absolutely ridiculous. Limit Break is the name everyone gave to Goku prior, the form was proven to have nothing to do with UI and was achieved by breaking his limit, Vegeta then broke his limit and did the same thing and now the ability is Limit Breaker like come on people. OBVIOUSLY Vegeta is 'beyond blue', everything past it is, Rage is technically 'beyond Blue', Blue Kaioken is 'beyond Blue', this name is garbage and has no real source other than charaters saying he vaguely did something that put him passed Blue - when actual descriptions of the form, the comparison to the actual descriptions of Goku's form which is the same, the ability title, all of it is far more specific and actually describing what the form is. Fans think this is an actual extension of SSJB as if it's a Saiyan only transformation that requires Blue when obviously Goku did the same thing without. The info is frankly fucked right now and we should be doing something to fix it but instead speculation reigns supreme on this topic when there is already in series confirmation of what these forms are and we shouldn't be speculating passed that. This name is literally contradictory to what the form is. Hopefully Heroes names it right because they already screwed up hard with 'Ultra Instinct -Sign-' when the form and the technique have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Hopefully we can do away with this awful name for the form that makes literally no sense and is taking part in confusing the fans further. It should at least be marked as a placeholder title like ExyleCage said because right now the level of speculation and incorrect info on this topic is unacceptable for a wiki which should be a solid information source. Limit Breaker would be a far more appropriate placeholder title at least, we're obviously working with placeholders anyway so we should at least use one that's actually correct. Koibito888 (talk) 22:38, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

This form aint the same thing as Goku's Ultra Instinct form. They're both limit breakers but aint the same limit breaker. Also ya know Goku was in SSB when he attained UI right? The "beyond SSB" name was marked as a placeholder, but someone removed it. Also, no swearing.--Neffyarious (talk) 22:57, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Except it's the exact same thing. Lol no there are not 'different limit breakers' that would be like saying that because goku and vegeta obtained ssj in different ways that it makes it two different kinds of ssj. Also no, goku was not in blue, he specifically fell unconscious and back to base before the spirit bomb even crushed him so he was very much in base. It is achieved by breaking your shell and literally causes the exact same changes between both characters. Its the same form and the grand priest even said vegeta did the same thing goku did, no difference. Literally if goku went blue in his form he would be the exact same form as vegeta. Koibito888 (talk) 23:18, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

And yet, it's not Ultra Instinct. Because Ultra Instinct gives access to, you guessed it, Ultra Instinct. Limit breakers are not normal transformations, since each person has different limits. -- Orion (T-B-C) 23:23, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Except his form does not give him access to UI, they are two separate power ups. If breaking your shell did not give vegeta UI then it's not what gave goku it. UI is a technique it is not a granted power it is a state of unconscious fighting and that's it. Lol no you can't just make up nonsense about how forms are different when that's not and never how db has ever worked. Grand Priest said vegeta did the exact same thing as goku and it caused the same exact physical changes. Koibito888 (talk) 23:38, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Even Herms makes fun of this Wiki now for putting that name. ConTraZ VII (talk) 23:07, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

It's a provisional title, but one that fits what's been going on in the series. To name it after an ability this form possesses would be, as I mentioned, like naming Goku "kamehameha".

Orion (T-B-C) 23:10, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't fit though, in fact it contradicts what's going on in the series Koibito888 (talk) 23:18, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

People like you, who don't watch the series, shouldn't make statements.

Orion (T-B-C) 23:23, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Clearly you don't because you're going off a generic not name given instead of actual in series descriptions. Koibito888 (talk) 23:38, February 16, 2018 (UTC)

Limit-break prince

So technically, you want to say that "we don't want to follow titles from Dragon Ball Heroes. It's our wiki and it's up to us what to write. We don't follow, we're followed."

Btw, this is the pic from DB Heroes and the name for it is "Limit-Break Prince". ConTraZ VII (talk) 23:30, February 16, 2018 (UTC)


No, ConTraZ VII. I want to say what I'm saying, and not what you're lying about what I'm saying. And what I'm saying is that, from what I understand, the name DBH uses is not for this for, but for an ability that it possesses. Do you need a translation?

Orion (T-B-C) 23:31, February 16, 2018 (UTC)


Except Herms flat out said that Dragon Ball Heroes names "Sparkle Vegeta Limit Break Prince". He translated it, and this wiki is KNOWN for using things he says. What's the difference now? Is it because one of your admins didn't change the name first? Is it because you have some kind of personal vendetta against the words "Limit" and "Break"? The literal name for the card is Limit Break Prince. Literally every other card has a name that we use as a page name on this wiki. You guys are being incredibly unfair and biased because you want to be the final say. ExyleCage (talk) 00:39, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

I suggest you read what I said before getting all uppity. Take a walk, clear your head, and then return.
Orion (T-B-C) 00:49, February 17, 2018 (UTC)


I did read it. You must not understand what you yourself said. Try rereading your own posts before telling others to do so. ExyleCage (talk) 00:59, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

I get that you're a teen, but arrogance is not an attractive quality. If you believe you know what I said better than me, you're delusional. For the record, I said "from what I understand", meaning that with all the information available to me, that was the conclusion I'd reached. Bargeta said that the name was of the card's ability, and it took you until now to say that it was actually a translation of the name of the card. You also changed the title without asking or explaining, and arrogantly demanded other people do the things you're too limited to know how to do.

In the future, make your case, instead of expecting others to be able to read your mind. I also recommend you start paying attention to your English lessons.

Orion (T-B-C) 01:05, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

Again, until we get to see the back of Vegeta's card (where it lies the possible name of the form), there is absolutely no need to change the name of the article, they are all placeholder names, all having the same value (which is none). This is actually not up for debate, all we need to do is just wait for official information, because it is coming one way or another. Bargeta (talk) 01:33, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, placeholder names have no official value, and so the only value they have is the ones that describe the form the best. As such we should be using the term that describes the form and not the one that directly contradicts and confuses what the form is. Not to mention there is now far more official things calling it limit breaker because that's literally all he did to reach it and again it was called the same thing as Goku's which is not an extension of blue. It even gave him the same physical changes as Goku this form is not an extension of blue it is a product of 'breaking your shell' and that's it. With sources actually referring to it and the form actually being described as this, the only logical option is to use the one that a source actually gives and the one that makes sense. Beyond Blue is literally not what the form is, neither have value as placeholder names but Beyond Blue has even less value for being flat out wrong. Yes we need to wait for more info but until we have more info that is the point of the placeholder name and the placeholder name shouldn't be objectively incorrect. Koibito888 (talk) 02:17, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

"Beyond Super Saiyan Blue" is a placeholder name put by the admins because there's no official source yet. But now we have it, we should change it. Orion which is a almighty adult is actually has no point to debate but now he's attacking individuals instead of back to topic.

"And what I'm saying is that, from what I understand, the name DBH uses is not for this for, but for an ability that it possesses. Do you need a translation?"
— Orion

What do you mean actually? Can explain it clearly with proof? ConTraZ VII (talk) 01:59, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

This is the same issue everyone had when Ultra Instinct -Sign- was renamed to its current name, which is from Dokkan Battle. Now in my opinion I think Beyond Blue is alright but since everybody want to war over the name, just use the name from the video game instead. After all its the only official source we have and I doubt this form will appear in the manga. DragonEmeperor (talk) 02:06, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

Why not? I'm pretty sure they will have it in the manga too. ConTraZ VII (talk) 11:26, February 17, 2018 (UTC)

Sorry to bring this up again, by the way happy lunar new year everyone, but the problem with Herms' translation is that the name is what Vegeta is referred to when he HIMSELF is in that state. Such as Fused Zamasu in his Half-Corrupted form is called "Grosteque Zamasu" when in that state but the actual form is called HALF-CORRUPTED. The forms' name is in the back of the card, it always is. Play SDBH, and you will know. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 22:42, February 18, 2018 (UTC)

So how about this card? What's the form name and what's the state name? ConTraZ VII (talk) 01:13, February 19, 2018 (UTC)

I have no idea. I tried looking at several sites but none really show the translated back side. I could tell you what I think it is, but that would be no better than what we have right now. Try looking into it, perhaps? SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 23:33, February 20, 2018 (UTC)

So you yourself are not sure about this. Okay then. ConTraZ VII (talk) 06:48, February 21, 2018 (UTC)

No, that's not what I'm saying. I know for sure a 100% that the text on the front is a passive ability. It's just that no one has officially translated that yet as far as I can see. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 07:06, February 21, 2018 (UTC)

So maybe we can use an unofficial translation first as placeholder before the officials come. ConTraZ VII (talk) 00:03, February 22, 2018 (UTC)

Gallery Captions

Can't believe I have to make a talk page topic about this, but...can we change some of the captions on the gallery images? It just seems excessive and unnecessary to keep stating the full name of the form in every image caption. The name is long enough already. Some of the images in the article sections already do this. Just a suggestion to keep things encyclopedic, but concise and simple. Banan14kab 20:36, February 25, 2018 (UTC)

True. We do have SSB to replace SSGSS but they still use it for this page. Maybe SSBE is better. ConTraZ VII (talk) 08:59, February 27, 2018 (UTC)

Official name?

May I know the source for this new name? ConTraZ VII (talk) 08:52, February 26, 2018 (UTC)

Look at the source in front of the name. And ask Neff who translated it. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 15:37, February 26, 2018 (UTC)

Yup, until we get the translated back name, this will do. The name was gotten from [ttanslation]. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 17:25, February 28, 2018 (UTC)

If we want to use SSGSS Evo, then we need to rename SSB to SSGSS as well for consistency sake. ConTraZ VII (talk) 09:18, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

Yeah but the transformation is currently named Super Saiyan Blue in both the manga and anime, it's other ascended form is also called SSGSS with something with it so there's no need, and doing that will result in merging SS Rosé because that's also Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Try proposing to 10x to create a disambiguation page man, we need that more than ever. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 21:18, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

It's done. Here's the disambiguation page. DragonEmeperor (talk) 21:44, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

The hell with this. Don't you guys see the biggest inconsistency here? The first one is SSGSS is a form referring specifically to SSB. It's not a disambiguation and it *IS* SSB. It's just a different naming from the video games. It's only later anime and manga use SSB name which video games refused to, so they stick with the SSGSS name. About "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (completed)", I don't know where they got the name but in the manga, it's never mentioned as SSB as SSGSS. It's always SSB. The same as anime. So I highly suggest to use SSB to replace all SSGSS terms (unless you want video games to be higher level of canon than the anime and manga). ConTraZ VII (talk) 23:41, March 1, 2018 (UTC)

--I agree with ConTraZ. SSGSS is an unofficial name used in videogames. Toyotaro even makes fun of the name in the first chapter of Dragon Ball Super. The anime also calls it 'Super Saiyan Blue', so it only makes sense that all related forms have the actual name, as opposed to the name given to them by Dragon Ball Heroes/Dokkan/Xenoverse. It's irresponsible of us to keep such a confusing name in place. ExyleCage (talk) 16:50, March 4, 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but first you complain that the name being used is not official, and now that it is, you complain that you don't like it, so it should be changed. Pick a lane. I'm all for an official name, now that it's been revealed.

Orion (T-B-C) 16:52, March 4, 2018 (UTC)


It's not that I don't like it. It's that we refer to Super Saiyan Blue as "Super Saiyan Blue". We don't call it "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan". If the name were to appear in the anime and manga, they wouldn't say "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution". They'd say "Super Saiyan Blue Evolution". Going off of a video game name without linking the articles in some way (adding a category on the regular transformation isn't linking the names) is going to confuse people. If you guys wanna leave it like this, I'm fine with it. I understand what it is because I've been a fan of Dragon Ball for my entire life. But future fans are going to be confused if they join the wiki and see that one form has one name, while the enhanced ones have complicated names. ExyleCage (talk) 17:21, March 4, 2018 (UTC)

Well, we had a name that was easier to understand, but you complained it wasn't official. This one is. Easy to understand or not, that's the way of it. We don't even know if the cartoon is going to shorten SSGSS to SSB, or if it's going to call it something else entirely. What we do know is that, for now, this is the only official name we have.

EDIT: And if you don't want fan names, you'd do well to avoid making up your own as a replacement for the official name we do have.

Orion (T-B-C) 17:30, March 4, 2018 (UTC)

So it's technically change all SSB to SSGSS or all SSGSS to SSB. Pick your choice. ConTraZ VII (talk) 10:04, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

Neither. It's use official names, even if you and ExyleCage don't want that.

Orion (T-B-C) 10:11, March 5, 2018 (UTC)


Being an off branch of Super Saiyan Blue does NOT eliminate the fact that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is officially called "Super Saiyan Blue" in all canon materials. It's not a fan name. It's an official name when you actually pay attention to the way things are named in the series. ExyleCage (talk) 15:18, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

You can justify it however you'd like. The actual official name was Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution. The fact that the franchise has inconsistent naming regarding the form initially known as Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, later called Super Saiyan Blue, does not make your fan name any more official.

Orion (T-B-C) 15:24, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

As far as I know, we tend to stick and name the articles with the most recent official name we got at the moment whether is anime, manga or any official source and regardless if any of those follow the same choice for names. All we got is "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution". SSGSS is simply the original name of SSB so if anyone is confused about it, they can simply go to SSB article and look at the alternate names of the form. Skar800 (Talk) 16:21, March 5, 2018 (UTC)


Being pretty arrogant there, aren't we Orion? You consider it a fan name, yet you don't seem to pay attention to anyone's logic but your own. Whatever you say. ExyleCage (talk) 16:38, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

Yes, you are being arrogant, ExyleCage. The official name is X, so the name of the article should be X. It shouldn't be a synonym of X, nor a combination of alternate names for X, nor whatever you come up with based on your fan logic. Before, you were making the exact opposite argument you're making now - that it shouldn't be a fan name, even if it's logically sound. I can only conclude you're less interested about accuracy than you are about getting it done however you want it.

Orion (T-B-C) 18:52, March 5, 2018 (UTC)


The fact you're making conclusions about ME proves that you're the one being arrogant. I have no interest in having it done however I want it. I just know what most people call it. I just know what the Anime and Manga would call it. Your assumption that I'm merely attempting to shape this page how I want it proves your arrogance. This conversation is over. ExyleCage (talk) 20:27, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

If you want to follow official names from games, so be consistent and use all names from games. Change all SSB to SSGSS now. ConTraZ VII (talk) 09:23, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

Game or not, this is the most official name we have. Stop trying to back out of your initial argument, which was that we should use the supposedly official supposed name from a game.

Orion (T-B-C) 10:25, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

The games use "SSGSS" term, they don't use "SSB". So change the SSB page to SSBSS. ConTraZ VII (talk) 08:45, March 7, 2018 (UTC)

The inconsistency between naming conventions in games and other official material is not our problem. This is the most official name we have for this transformation. Don't be a hypocrite and accept your own initial argument, that we should use an official name for this transformation.

Orion (T-B-C) 09:22, March 7, 2018 (UTC)

So mind explaining why the SSB page is still SSB not SSGSS? ConTraZ VII (talk) 07:37, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

Because that's the official name for it. If the cartoon calls SSGSS・Shinka something else, this article will be changed to reflect that. Until then, SSGSS・Shinka is the only official name we have. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to understand.

Orion (T-B-C) 09:21, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

Because it's ridiculous. ConTraZ VII (talk) 23:01, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

Slight Rename Proposal

'Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution' is a very strict and wooden translation of the Japanese, and it's poor English. Also, a space is left between 'Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin' and 'shinka', which considering Japanese doesn't use spaces all that often has, from my experience in translation circles for other Japanese franchises, frequently been represented using a hyphen or something of that nature. I propose renaming the page to something like 'Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan - Evolved'. Sits much better if you ask me. Paradigm Zwei (talk) 00:51, March 2, 2018 (UTC)

Well, got what you wanted SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 16:52, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

Just a quick explanation in case anyone asks, the reason we use "Shinka" over "Evolution" is because This keeps it as "Shinka". It's the same case as Super Saiyan Anger being called as such instead of "Super Saiyan Rage".--Neffyarious (talk) 17:07, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

But now the name sounds weird. Shouldn't we use the English version of the name? VendettaRev (talk) 18:52, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

We are using the only official English translation, as I said it's the same case as with SS Anger, which was named as such in the url.--Neffyarious (talk) 19:02, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

You translated "Anger". Why didn't you translate "Shinka"? VendettaRev (talk) 19:06, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

We did not translate it, we got it from the url, we had previously translated "Ikari" as "Rage" but changed it to "Anger" due to the url. In this case the url (which is in English) uses "Shinka" instead of "Evolution", "Evolved" etc.--Neffyarious (talk) 19:47, March 5, 2018 (UTC)

Can we not do this? Using "•" to separate words is not a thing in English, only in Japanese they do it to avoid confusion with English words or names. I suggest "Super Saiyan Blue Shinka" or "Super Saiyan God SS Shinka" Sandxamun (talk) 03:21, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

TheDevilsCorpse doesn't seem to be happy with this. https://twitter.com/DBReduxTDC/status/970853823471382528 03:42, March 6, 2018 (UTC)Dylanmontoya (talk)

  • Their frustration is understandable, however it's how our naming scheme works so there's nothing that can be done. The url is more official than a fan translation, even if the fan translation is more accurate to the original.--Neffyarious (talk) 12:15, March 6, 2018 (UTC)
  • Who cares what one self-important fan thinks on Twitter? Paradigm Zwei (talk) 18:47, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

The main issue I see right now is that there are pages for three different incarnations of Super Saiyan Blue that each call it by a different name ('Blue' for normal, 'God Super Saiyan' for completed, and 'God SS' for Evolved), which is silly. I think people need to stop being so rigid over which terms were used where and what constitutes the closest thing to "official" and just pick one to use for all three articles so as to avoid any confusion. My vote (should it even matter) goes to 'God Super Saiyan'. Sure 'Blue' is the most commonly used name, but it's still ultimately a nickname that was created to get around how excessive the original name is. But eh, really I'm not terribly invested in this matter. I'm perfectly content to continue going by headcanon. You guys can do what you wish. Paradigm Zwei (talk) 18:45, March 6, 2018 (UTC)

It's name is SSGSSE.

Here's the proof.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2018/03/05/dragon-ball-vegeta-new-form-name-super-saiyan-anime/

Lets end this ridiculous debate. The DBH card also confirmed it.Rogeta234 (talk) 19:30, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

  • This has been explained above.--Neffyarious (talk) 19:41, March 8, 2018 (UTC)


Then why can't I change the name of the form?Rogeta234 (talk) 20:12, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

Because we are using the most official name. As explained above. The only English source we have leaves "Shinka" as is, not "Evolution".--Neffyarious (talk) 20:17, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

Lock the page

Neff, just lock the page. Like, lock it from even any user's access besides the admin. Less edit wars and plus, its form's history is done. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 20:27, March 8, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, just make sure to change "Great Priest" to "Grand Minister" because that's the name the English dub gave him and, you know, we must stick with those. Skar800 (Talk) 17:24, March 20, 2018 (UTC)

Changing the hyperlinks for Vegeta's new form

Whoever wants to do this, God Bless your poor soul. Well, someone's gotta do it, either way, otherwise the mess will continue to pile up. The links here show what links to the redirects on pages that should have the official name. And a bunch of redirects need to be re-redirected to this page. Anyone want to volunteer? If so, thank God. This is just a depressing sight. So probably like....most of all the new stuff on this wiki we added. 

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/:Super_Saiyan_God_Super_Saiyan_-_Evolution

http://dragonball.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Beyond+Super+Saiyan+Blue&namespace=

http://dragonball.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=+Super+Saiyan+God+SS%E3%83%BBShinka&namespace=

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Super+Saiyan+God+Super+Saiyan+Evolution

Also, just in case this gets changed again, the current what links here

http://dragonball.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Super+Saiyan+God+Super+Saiyan%3A+Evolution&namespace=

Again thanks for whoever does this! SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 07:54, March 10, 2018 (UTC)

  • Why don't you just delete all the redirects and leave only the main link? VendettaRev (talk) 09:55, March 10, 2018 (UTC)

More name shenanigans

Sorry to reopen this can of worms, but recently an image of the art book in DBS vol 11 was posted on Twitter and the name of this form reads " 超サイヤ人ブルー 進化" next to the design. Because this is also an official source, but one with a name that contradicts the one used it, it should be taken into account. Spicymaymay (talk) 18:59, July 4, 2018 (UTC)


  • It's still japanese, we're using the only official english name we have.--Neffyarious (talk) 19:08, July 4, 2018 (UTC)

Finally

So. The new FighterZ trailer finally has a localized name for it. We can finally change the title of the page to Super Saiyan Blue (Evolved). —This unsigned comment was made by ThunderFox55 (talkcontribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!

Can you send me a link to thsi trailer, I'm just curious to see how they showed it. LeonGjata (talk) 13:08, February 24, 2019 (UTC)

Fighterz

Just wondering about this. I've seen, or thought I've seen, every Fighterz trailer but I'm not familiar with any reference to Evolved. Was it one of the avatars or something? MOS2015 (talk) 00:04, February 19, 2019 (UTC)

SSBE is not in the manga

While these forms seem similair and the manga version is probably based on SSB Evolved as Toriyama didn't come up with any form beyond Blue, it has a different name and appearence.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjE_5b6tdTgAhWwy4UKHRSIApEQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Faminoapps.com%2Fc%2Fanime%2Fpage%2Fblog%2Ftoyotaros-details-on-ssb%2FK5tM_u0rPrv7Dkpjx0REQPkXWvE1KD&psig=AOvVaw0xz8ZFdVmPJXLwHJ7JS7k_&ust=1551099414160532

This is a guide to the SSB forms in the manga, detailing the intial SSB state, white aura, Advanced SSB state, white aura with blue flames, and Vegeta's Mastered SSB, blue flames fused with the aura. Also a little description of Perfected SSB. This shows that SSB Evolved is not in the manga. This can also help us add things to the SSB page for the manga versions specifically as small stages. LeonGjata (talk) 13:01, February 24, 2019 (UTC) 

That guide was made by a fan on Kanzenshuu. --Neffyarious (talk) 13:32, February 24, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah it's fanmade and assumtions. FlatZone (talk) 13:33, February 24, 2019 (UTC)

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