|Archive 1||September 2, 2016|
Page needs vandalism reverted.
- Looks more like a simple disagreement. Why not invite the other user to discuss it here rather than reverting their edit without telling them why? Also, Rollback is not needed to undo an edit. In fact, undoing a summarized edit like his using Rollback would be abuse of Rollback rights, since it's not vandalism. Read his edit summary and talk to him. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:31, January 3, 2017 (UTC)
How is removing information that was referenced not vandalism? I fixed it, BTW. He removed an actual reference tag that cited Akira Toriyama himself's notes.Zane T 69 (talk) 00:02, January 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Read his edit summary. Talk to him. It's obviously not vandalism. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:20, January 4, 2017 (UTC)
Honestly, I'm not that invested in the matter. I did read his edit summary. Where is it stated that SSJR is "simply a recoloured SS1"? That's unsourced, and even sounds like fanon. The previous information had a cited source, Akira Toriyama himself, the original author and creator and most likely the highest form of canon. If you can't understand, that he removed an actual reliable reference for what appears to be fanon/speculation; then my posts here, were a complete waste of time. He hasn't even provided a source for the information in his summary and the burden of proof is on him, because he removed referenced info and said something different. I, and the rest of the wiki have no way of knowing if what he said is true or an act of vandalism. Zane T 69 (talk) 01:44, January 4, 2017 (UTC)
- You know what this all boils down to? You "have no way of knowing if what he said is true or an act of vandalism". Do you know who you can ask to clarify? The person who made the edit. For the third time, talk to him before unilaterally declaring his edit vandalism. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:34, January 4, 2017 (UTC)
I asked him, I just wanted to avoid dealing with an apparent new editor. I'm sorry for annoying you, I just wanted to deal with someone who knew what they're doing. Zane T 69 (talk) 17:14, January 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Well it's good to hear what's going on, but editors new to Wikia can still have good ideas. We as the community should be helping new folks. Reaching out to him would make a difference. Good editors are a result of good communities. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:52, January 5, 2017 (UTC)
I know that, I became an admin on an established wiki with only 150 edits; because, I saw the wikis needs and areas of improvement. I did reach out to him, his behavior just made me nervous and I saw possible difficulty in actual resolution on the matter. Zane T 69 (talk) 04:22, January 5, 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I'm the guy who made the change. I'm confused as to why you think I was deliberately trying to cause a problem. My change came from an official source, which states that Super Saiyan Rose has the same multiplier as regular Super Saiyan.
Sources have been released since then that say otherwise, so maybe I was wrong. But why would you consider it vandalism? I made a mistake, not a deliberate attempt to create misconceptions. If you're wondering about my source, it's here:
With the recent manga chapter finally revealing that Super Saiyan Rosé and Super Saiyan Blue are the same form - with Rose just having a different hair color due to Black already being a god, I suggest the pages be merged under the name "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan". We can change the infobox tab from "anime" and "manga" to "Blue" and "Rose" to show both versions of the form.--Neffyarious (talk) 01:51, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
sounds to complicated. it should stay seperate and keep the manga and anime images on both pages Nikon23 02:18, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
I think that although the forэqms are the same for the sake of simplicity we should still keep them as separate values while on the page itself we can state that they are indeed the same form. Also I think we should keep the pictures from the manga for both forms. Cheamte (talk) 09:58, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
I agree with you Neffyarious.
They are the exact same form aside from color, keeping them separate would be like making a separate page for each different color that the Kamehameha or Death Beam can be, or creating a page for the one time Broly's ordinary Super Saiyan form had green hair.--Neffyarious (talk) 11:19, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
- I disagree with you Neffy simply because if we merged it SSB we would have to go back to calling it Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan instead of Super Saiyan Blue plus the name is official while all the different coloured Kamehamehas/Death beams etc have new official name. If there was an attack literally called Green Galick Gun than we'd call it that. It the same with Black Kamehameha; it looks just like an ordinary Kamehameha, and is destructive as one, but it's a unique version in it's own right. I hope what i just said makes some sense.--Made up Character Wiki Admin Jack Jackson Page I ignore Things I do 11:37, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
If that's the case then we'll need to split Super Saiyan 3 into two pages, one for Goku's "Super Saiyan 3" and one for Gotenks' version - which he calls "Ultra Super Saiyan", see Gotenks' form is the same form - but it has used a different name officially and it is slightly different colored (Gotenks' form does not have dark green pupils, while Goku's does).--Neffyarious (talk) 12:19, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
Comparing the nearly unnoticeable difference in eye color as being equivalent to Super Saiyan Blue and Super Saiyan Rose is kinda ridiculous. I'd say keep them separate due to the obvious differences. Kaestal (talk) 13:35, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
If you merge the forms then the form will have to be renamed back into "super saiyan god super saiyan" instead of simply "super saiyan blue" because now you will have to include goku black "super saiyan rose" version which has different hair,eye and aura color but you will also have to include future zamasu version which has different aura and has white hair. therfore like i mentioned before i suggest to keep the forms seperated. Cheamte (talk) 13:44, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
i still think they should remain sperate pages. doesn't really make sense to merge them Nikon23 17:11, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
Same, merging these two pages don't make sense, and will only confuse the readers.19:13, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
No it won't if done right and so what if we have to rename the article that's the easy part the actual hard part is organizing it to where it reads fine. It does make sense since both are the same form just different hair, eye, arua color, and different name. Also we can't really compare this to the Kamehameha or Galick Gun since not ever version of them are just different colors some are stronger and therefore do more damage then the standerd version, like the 10X Kamehameha or the Super Galick Gun. Also me and some others called Super Saiyan Rose being the exact same form just a different name, eye, hair, and arua color, also this is one reason I had against changing the name of this article but no majority of the others where like we don't know that but guess what now we do and all but three of us are against renaming this article back to what is was and merging this article and SSR since the are the same form just four differences.
I still think that four differences are a good enough reason to keep the form separte. I will use your example the difference between 10X kamehameha to normal kamehameha from what you said is simply the power which is only 1 difference but still enough to have separte page. The other difference is color so that gives us 2 diferences, therfore if the 10X kamehameha gets a page of his own for 2 diferences I think that if we have 4 like you said in my opinion the pages should be separated. Cheamte (talk) 20:47, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
- I understand the reasons for wanting to merge the pages, but I'm in favor of keeping them seperate. While SSR and SSB are technically the same form, SSR has a wildly different appearence and a seperate name that fans have grown accustomed to. Merging the pages would serve little purpose and would just make the article more confusing. The note in each of the articles stating that they're identical forms suffices in my opinion. — • • 22:31, January 19, 2017 (UTC)
Cheamte technically 10X Kamehameha and Kamehameha has 3 differences the two you side and how the move starts out being preformed, also they have been stated to be different moves so like I said before we really can't use the reasons why the moves have different articles. I say if we leave both forms separate then we make a page that links to both forms so as to have them both on one page but it link to their actual pages.
I suppose having three pages is an option: "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" would be an overview of everything that the two variants of the form, while "Super Saiyan Blue" and "Super Saiyan Rose" pages would be about the variants themselves. Kinda like how we have Power Stressed as an overview-type page for Super Saiyan Second Grade and Super Saiyan Third Grade.--Neffyarious (talk) 02:17, January 20, 2017 (UTC)
I agree with your last idea Neffyarious we could do 3 pages like the power stressed and it will satisfy everyone while still keeping the simple format we have now. I could help do that if we agree to this Cheamte (talk) 08:16, January 20, 2017 (UTC)
- Having 3 pages is unnecessarily complicated. SSGSS and SSB are 100% the same thing. One is a nickname for the other, not a different form. Rose may merit its own page, especially since it's only SSGSS in the manga apparently, but 3 pages should not be on the table. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:18, January 21, 2017 (UTC)
I think that they should stay as their own page but, on the Super Saiyan Blue page, have a section about different variations of the form (Super Saiyan Rosé) just like the Super Saiyan God page has an advanced levels section, (Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan Blue/Rosé
I somewhat like the idea of having an overview page for that englobes those two articles, but still keeping SSB and SSR separated. Here I show an example of what was done recently in the Spanish wiki to see if it can help this subject in anything: es:Super Saiyajin Dios Super Saiyajin.20:31, January 21, 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah that looks really good, that's exactly what I had in mind. A page like that would be good, and I don't think it would be complicated.--Neffyarious (talk) 05:45, January 22, 2017 (UTC)
What I was talking about was a disambiguation page.
Honestly SSGSS is a dated term and bringing it back isn't the best solution, in my opinion. SSJR is achieved through the same process as SSJB, but it has a different design, aura, and can only be achieved by Goku Black, making it his unique transformation. It really deserves a separate page. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 23:04, January 24, 2017 (UTC)
- Also, considering we have separate pages for regular SSJ "forms" that only have slight variants, like Spirit Bomb Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan Full Power, it only makes sense to have a separate page for a form that is both exclusive to one person and actually has a different design. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 23:09, January 24, 2017 (UTC)
But see there is the problem as of right now only one character has achieved SSR so we don't know if he is the only one, but the bottom line is either way SSR and SSB are the same form just differences to tell them apart. Also the matter of the name wouldn't have had to be mentioned if some users would have listened to me when I said SSR and SSB could end up being the same form so we should wait till we got more info but no a great deal of user's wanted to change it because SSB is more commonly known (I call bull crap) and that I was speculating which I wasn't clearly I seen it before others did. If it kind of sounds like I am pissed well I am because I am one of the ones who called it about SSB and SSR being the same form just different versions. I say we either do the disambiguation page or what YonedgeHp suggested. Also in this article it even says that the only reason SSR has different hair color is because of Goku Black's status as a god, which means that he isn't the only character who can achieve it, it means that any Saiyan who has access to this form and becomes a god achieves SSR.
- At least it's actually distinguished. Pages like Super Saiyan Full Power and Spirit Bomb Super Saiyan are literally the same forms, no different except for power. Those two examples weren't even named differently in the show. SSJR is distinguished by the requirements, known users, name and design. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 23:41, January 24, 2017 (UTC)
- Those forms have differences besides the power. You can read the articles to learn about them before you use them in examples, otherwise you sound pretty uninformed. Anyway, Rose probably deserves its own page, one for Blue and one for Rose. There is no need for a third article about both. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:58, January 25, 2017 (UTC)
Separate manga and anime mechanics into separate sub-headlines
It's clear by this point that the anime and Toyotaro's manga are going about SSj Blue differently. I don't think manga and anime descriptions should be intermingled like they are in the article, as that only leads to confusion. The article should be structured with separate descriptions of manga and anime mechanics, so that the reader knows what's applicable to the manga, and what to the anime. Xfing (talk) 20:28, January 7, 2018 (UTC)
- That doesn’t make sense when there is 90% overlap. The content should be referenced to specific media, as described in the MoS. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:50, January 9, 2018 (UTC)
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan as a redirect page for Super Saiyan Blue
Ok look, this has gone too far. The current name for Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan has been shared by both Blue and its completed state. Blue in games and the completed state in the manga. We should link the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan page to the disambiguation to make sure viewers know what they're talking about and to avoid bias. What do you guys think? SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 08:38, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
- No. SSGSS is the original the name before Blue was decided. It should remain directed to Blue only. If people want the manga version, they know the difference by the completed state being part of the name. DragonEmeperor (talk) 08:44, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
- Just because it was the original name doesn't give it the right to take the name away from THE ACTUAL FORM THAT'S NAMED THAT NOW. Well yeah, you might be right but people proabaly don't know that the completed form exists and again "avoid bias". It separates the viewership to Super Saiyan Blue instead of informing them that two forms share the name Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. It's like if two people share the same brand, the other person would be mad if the other took 90% of the brand and the paycheck being diluted down to 10%. SuperBen 1000000 (talk) 08:52, March 25, 2018 (UTC)
- Agree with DragonEmperor. There's no explicit indication it refers to something other than SSJB. To that end, it has never even been used to refer to SSJR, so Rose's appearance on the disambig is bizarre. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 09:07, March 25, 2018 (UTC)