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Archive 1 February 25, 2008
Archive 2 August 28, 2016

Pseudo Super Saiyan

PSS is part of the main transformation line, Daizenshuu 6 refers to it as the form Goku takes when manifesting his Super Saiyan powers, but not fully. So it's just an inferior version of normal SS, thus it's an undiluted Super Saiyan form (which makes it part of the main line).--Neffyarious (talk) 07:15, September 29, 2016 (UTC)

What do you mean by undiluted? Your explanation makes it sound like it's not part of the main line. It's what happens when a strong Saiyan powers up, not a Super Saiyan yet. -- SSJ4 Goku(2).jpg 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:53, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
By undiluted I mean it's not a hybrid form - like SSB (SS + SSG) or SS4 (SS + GA) - and is not a "Related" form. It is a pure Super Saiyan form, not altered by anything else. It is just said to be a Saiyan accessing their SS powers, but not fully, so it's part of the main line.--Neffyarious (talk) 04:28, September 30, 2016 (UTC)

I consider SSB and SS4 as more official than pseudo. They both appear consistently as reoccurring staples of the series, have official names used many times in the media itself, multiple characters used them, and they are only "hybrids" with other things pure Saiyans can already do. In contrast, pseudo literally means sort of a Super Saiyan, it only happens once to one Saiyan, it only happens in one movie, and we know in real life this was an unfortunate case of, "Oops. Sorry Mr. Toriyama, we didn't realize you had a plan for Super Saiyan so we made a different version of that important transformation you've been building up to for years... we'll hide it away and never mention it again." It is not a part of the line. -- SSJ4 Goku(2).jpg 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 16:25, October 1, 2016 (UTC)

  • Obviously SSB/SS4 are more official than PSS, and yes PSS is an insignificant and "forgotten" transformation. But due to it's nature as being just a Super Saiyan form (and not a hybrid or similar form), it is by defintion a part of the "pure" Super Saiyan line - it's a level between base and Super Saiyan 1, an incomplete/predecessor Super Saiyan of sorts.--Neffyarious (talk) 08:10, October 2, 2016 (UTC)
I wouldn't argue that PSS is impure, rather I think it's hardly a form at all. A Saiyan who uses PSS is not a Super Saiyan and may never be. They don't yet qualify as having achieved the legendary status of being a Super Saiyan. It's also not a pre-requisite for Super Saiyan. It's a poorly-named powerup that 1 regular Saiyan used once, and if it were named anything else it would have no relation to SS at all. We currently treat it as a related form, which it is because of the name, but the name is the only thing making it related. -- SSJ4 Goku(2).jpg 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 16:49, October 2, 2016 (UTC)

"other than name not related to Super Saiyan at all", Daiz6 says it is a manifestation of Super Saiyan powers, so it is directly related.--Neffyarious (talk) 11:26, December 30, 2016 (UTC)


What with this strange deccision to merge SSFP page with main SS page?! It makes completely no sense - it's one of SS stage, like SS Stage 2 and 3. If you want to make one "mastery" article - Stage 2 and 3 also need to be there. But it still make no sense - Stages of SS it's really specific tranformations and need separate article.--Date450190486.png 14:46, December 25, 2016 (UTC)

  • They are the same and SSFP is always just called "Super Saiyan", the only difference is that the aura is slightly different and the user has better control over their power. Slightly different aura + better power control is not a transformation, plus a Super Saiyan does not transform into a Super Saiyan Full Power (since they are the same thing). Stage 2 and 3 on the other hand are power ups, so they get pages.--Neffyarious (talk) 07:04, December 28, 2016 (UTC)
  • No, Stage 2 and 3 not just power ups. And they're also always just called "Super Saiyan". It's just a muscle buff, so according to your logic - they're still need to be added in Mastery. There is no fundamental difference between "just better control" and "just muscle buff"--Date450190486.png 07:09, December 28, 2016 (UTC)
  • Stage 2 and 3 are treated as transformations in video games, that is enough to get them a page.--Neffyarious (talk) 08:55, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

Fun fact: the only time I've ever seen FPSS get any recognition in a game was in one of the DBZ BT games. I think his last alternate costume in 2 or 3 gave him the slightly paler yellow hair. I think it was just for the detail-oriented fans since like I said the game never mentions it. -- SSJ4 Goku(2).jpg 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 16:01, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

On YouTube, DBZ BT 3 Goku(mid) and Goku(end) have different hair Colored SS hair, which when I played with friends we'd always say one was SS and the other was FPSS. I'm not arguing for a separate article, just pointing out a fun Easter egg : ) -- SSJ4 Goku(2).jpg 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 16:06, December 28, 2016 (UTC)

I actually had a look at the Trunks Anime Comics Super Saiyan form guide, and it's wording seems to refer to Super Saiyan Fourth Grade as being a separate form "A form where without consciously raising their ki they are still able to remain Super Saiyan on a regular basis: that's Grade Four", "Goku transformed into Grade Four during his training in the Room of Spirit and Time", so maybe it should have it's own page...--Neffyarious (talk) 11:30, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

  • That's what i'm talking about. SSFP Ki control is unique, i think.--Date450190486.png 11:35, December 30, 2016 (UTC)

Female super saiyans?


I was taking a look at the page for the Super Saiyan descriptions to see if they have any descriptions on what a female Super Saiyan looks like. Other than having a picture of Caulifla in her Super Saiyan state, it doesn't seem to give any descriptions of the female version of the form, nothing distinguishing it from the male version of the form (probably the closest it has to that form being mentioned is offhandedly mentioning Kale's version of the state). Think we should add in some details for it, especially considering Caulifla's version of the form has already made its debut? Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:24, May 27, 2017 (UTC)

It should also mention decriptions of other Female Super Saiyans from other Dragon Ball media as well, like Note, Forte and Viola, who can transform into Super Saiyan, 2, 3 and God forms in Dragon Ball Heroes. GuKeltke (talk) 01:34, May 27, 2017 (UTC)

Merge Super Saiyan Forms

Seeing as how Toryama confirmed Super Saiyans 2 and 3 are just upgrades to Super Saiyan, I believe we should merge them to fit with the lore better Edit: Forgot to sign my post. ExyleCage (talk) 16:32, February 20, 2018 (UTC)

I disagree, we should maintain them separate, the same thing goes to Ultra Instinct. ~ Yon ~Want to join my army?Visit my talk page! 16:50, February 20, 2018 (UTC)

They are separate forms with lots of separate content. They should have separate articles. -- SSJ4 Goku(2).jpg 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:28, February 21, 2018 (UTC)

Other users

As Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are simply powered up Super Saiyans (cannot be achieved without Super Saiyan), should we list Raditz as a user of Super Saiyan, and Trunks/Raditz/Nappa as users of Super Saiyan 2?--Neffyarious (talk) 21:06, April 27, 2018 (UTC)

I think we should only list what we observe. So no. -- SSJ4 Goku(2).jpg 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 20:46, April 29, 2018 (UTC)
But we observe those users taking on a powered-up Super Saiyan, to take on a powered-up Super Saiyan one must be a Super Saiyan in the first place.--Neffyarious (talk) 21:13, April 29, 2018 (UTC)

Not part of the Super Saiyan line

"While not normally said to be part of the main Super Saiyan line"

Can someone link a source for this? TheCreepy904 (talk) 12:25, February 3, 2020 (UTC)