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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Shorty article.
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Why was the edited version removed? It might confuse some peaple who have only seen the edited versions? Ghostkaiba297 07:32, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Because essentially the character debuted on August 30, 1989 in "Asu naki Machi! Shōri e no Tōi Michinori". The English equivalent of this episode is titled "Pendulum Room Peril", which is why the sentence reads 'He makes his debut in "Pendulum Room Peril"' instead of 'He makes his debut in "Asu naki Machi! Shōri e no Tōi Michinori"'. "Showdown in the Past" is a recut version of the episode, and furthermore, no Japanese version of it exists. Debut mentions really only need to focus on the initial appearances in the anime and manga. Storm Z Ball talk projects 07:48, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Listen, I don't want to make enemies on this site, and I hope you don't consider me one either, but you're talking to someone who was once obsessed with DBZ seven years ago. FUNimation never started doing Dragonball Z episodes until Episode 54, Ginyu Assault. The 276-episode series was the ORIGINAL ENGLISH dub, first 53 by Ocean, next ones by FUNimation, and though in Canada Ocean did 168-276, the titles remained the same. The uncut version is an entirely different version of the show altogether, with the first 53 episodes made into 68 episodes redubbed in FUNimation, with Zarbon's voice made completely un-Zarbon-like. Ocean dub was the original English version of the first 53 episodes, including Showdown in the Past, which was renamed Pendulum Room Peril in FUNimation's version. Ghostkaiba297 22:58, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I could be talking to someone who lives for nothing but Dragon Ball Z and it wouldn't change the situation. The uncut version of the series is the English dub of what aired in Japan during the series' original production run. The edited series was something conceived for English audiences well over half a decade later. This wiki goes by an English naming scheme, and just like the English version of Return My Gohan!!, for example, is Dead Zone, the English version of "Asu naki Machi! Shōri e no Tōi Michinori", the episode where Brocco made his debut in the series, is "Pendulum Room Peril". "Showdown in the Past" is not the English version of this episode, and is the product of a number of heavy content cuts made by Ocean Studios. Storm Z Ball talk projects 23:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, but the Ocean episodes 1-53 (Arrival of Raditz - Goku... Super Saiyan?!) were there first. The FUNimation versions of the uncut Japanese episodes came out later. Showdown in the Past was there first (and in case you didn't know, it was an ENGLISH episode, Ocean's one of the two English dubbing companies for DBZ, the other being the more popular FUNimation). So, techincally, his first appearance on ENGLISH TV was in Showdown in the Past. The FUNimation episodes, which were done and remastered AFTER Ocean did their rendition (and somewhat ruined, judging from Zarbon and Vegeta's voices), only appeared on DVD or on the Cartoon Network channel, which I don't have in Canada. So naturally, I go by the version that originally aired on TV. Ocean Episodes 1-53, not FUNimation episodes 1-68. The first of the two English series consisted of 276 episodes, while the second, the remastered version (almost like Star Wars!!!), consisted of 291 episodes. There are two English versions of Dragonball Z: The one shown on normal TV channels, and the remastered version. And the 276-episode show was there first, long before the first 53 Ocean episodes were redubbed by FUNimation as 68 episodes. Ghostkaiba297 03:12, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
You don't understand. The character debuted in 1989 in the Japanese episode "Asu naki Machi! Shōri e no Tōi Michinori", not in 1996 in the altered episode "Showdown in the Past". The English name of the literal episode the character officially debuted in is "Pendulum Room Peril", plain and simple. Storm Z Ball talk projects 03:42, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect Naming

Here is another case of false naming. This character appears in half an episode (Pendulum Room) and is not named Brocco. His partner is also inaccurately named here. In the dub, after the credits roll, I paid very close attention to their names. One was Shorty (oddly it would be this one though he's actually tall;maybe a purposeful contradiction) and the other was Scarface (the short one with balding hair). Also, it is important to note that since neither of them is actually named onscreen and since neither of them appears in the manga and that they are filler and only appear in half of one episode, the best outcome, I'd assume, would be to merge them into a list. - PrinceZarbon 15:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about this one. The fact that some attention was paid to attributing names to the characters (even if it was by a dub studio) seems credible enough not to ignore. This case is similar to the techniques named in video games like Budokai and Budokai Tenkaichi; the original series (both manga and anime) don't give them labels, so we turn to third-party sources and spin-offs for something to call them. It would still be important to note where these techniques and characters derived their names from though. Storm Z Ball talk projects 16:26, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
However, I would like to stress that this character was so inconsequential that he is never actually named onscreen. Only in the end credits do I see a nickname of Shorty ascribed to him. I'm not too keen on these characters keeping pages on the facet that they merely appear in half an episode, whilst they also don't warrant confirmed names. If a nickname is enough though...I assume we can maintain their separate articles just with that though I wouldn't recommend it highly. - PrinceZarbon 00:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
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