This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of Power Levels article.
Structure & Information
I think it would be appropriate to structure the power levels into a table format to reduce the flux of information.
Also, the math for Goku and Freiza's power levels is incorrect. For instance, 1% of 120 million is 1.2 million, while in the previous statement states that frieza at 1% is at 4 million. Also, while fighting Vegita, Freiza says his power level is "Over One Milion!" (insert 9000 joke here), so perhaps this would also fit into this sheet.
What I propose is a table that states the character (or object of energy in the case of the spirit bomb), a description of what their power level is equatable by (ie; Kaio-ken X20 x 3 million), a description of the event (who's fighting whom, etc.), Manga novel & page (if found), episode listing (JAP, USA, etc. in sub-coloumns).
That would provide users accurate, sourceable information. At the bottom of this page, we could gather as many of these sources as possible and make a very organized reference sheet to distinguish mangas, episodes, and movies in sub-categories.
I will make this in Open Office's excel program and try and rig that into here, hopefully I won't get a bunch of angry responces!
22.214.171.124 09:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
- I think a table is a good idea. If nothing else, it will probably make the information look more orderly. Perhaps we could have separate columns for the different information sources (original manga, English anime, Daizenshuu, alternate media, etc.), since they differ a little bit sometimes (or one omits information that the other doesn't). If anyone needs help making a wiki table I can help out - just leave me a message or write a reply here. -- 11:56, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I have completed the table layout. If anyone needs help filling it in, just post your sources in here, I can add them to the Open Office excell spreadsheet, and use the program I have to convert it into a table again.
This took like 2 hours to configure & type up, but it looks like it was worth it! Meleniumshane90 11:18, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
- It looks good. AFAIK there aren't any official sources for power levels in Dragon Ball (the anime, not the manga). Does anyone have copies of the Daizenshuu that could provide us with the levels listed there? -- 23:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Interesting, I'm not sure how the table looks in Firefox, but in Opera, it looks great. IE, however, looks like crap & has empty spots where table information is. I guess the spaces I put in the table will have to do for now.
Meleniumshane90 02:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The original title of this article was more appopriate. The title "List of characters by power level" is not only too long, but is incorrect. This is not a list of charactes, but rather a list of power levels, in order, pertaining to the character. Though this may not seem like a big deal, having accurate titles is very important in a wiki. 126.96.36.199 18:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah I've also taken notice to its awkward wording in contrast to the article's content, but there is certainly nothing wrong with its length. It is important to establish in the title that the content of the article follows a list structure, and not one of prose. A more fitting title might be something like List of recorded power levels or something, something generic. Storm 18:48, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Or, list of power levels? Oh wait, I think that was the original title <sarcasm>, but yes, I like your name choice, though not all the power levels are recorded, but mathematically driven (Kaio-Ken, etc.) I think List Of Power Levels will work just fine, I'll make a recommendation to one of the admins to change it. maybe a petition system would be suiting, though the other guy just changed it out of nowhere, so perhaps just do it that way.
188.8.131.52 12:33, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- That was actually me, haha. The more I think about it though, the more List of power levels actually does sound like the better choice. Storm 02:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- The current title does seem a bit awkward. List of power levels would probably be fine. List of recorded power levels or List of known power levels both also seem like suitable candidates. (You guys don't need a petition. All registered users have a move button for a reason. ;-)) -- 10:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Power Levels and Sourcing
I will start off this discussion to try and get people motivated to put truthful information on the table and provide sources in the tables formatting layout. Add any information below this (in non table form) with accurate sourcing in order for it to be added to the table appropriately. I am ordering all of the Daizenshuu books in whatever language I can get, in order to put up the most accurate information.
Meleniumshane90 14:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Gnorian 2:45 PM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) Raditz's Battle Power (or Power Level) is incorrect. It is listed as 1,200, but in the Daizenshuu it is listed as 1,500: (bottom-left) While in the dub it may have been stated as 1,200, the same as the saibamen, it was stated that the saibamen were near Raditz's power at 1,200.
Excellent, very nice! Do you have a copy of the Daizenshuu that you could make some scans of? Oh, I also read that there was a typo on his power level in the Daizenshuu, but I'll have to look into that.
Meleniumshane90 14:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Gnorian 2:35 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) I unfortunately do not possess a copy of the Daizenshuu, and merely found the scans on a thread discussing this very wiki... I have never heard of typos in the Daizenshuu, but my knowledge of it is limited to the power levels (battle powers). However, I have played a DBZ RPG for the SNES, and in it Raditz's PL (BP) was 1,500--so I don't think it is incorrect (if it is, it is likely incorrect to the extent where it has to become fact due to being so widely accepted...). I can find the other Daizenshuu scan too, if it is needed (I might order the Daizenshuu myself, now--if I can get it in English).
Dekoshu 02:43, 6 November 2008 (UTC) Try your best there though.
Does anyone know Vegeta's SSJ power level as well as Goku's? I mean both of them at a given time. I'm trying to prove SSJ is x50 multiplier, not just adding a certain number of power no matter the original/base form power level. Thanks!—This unsigned comment was made by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!
Automated transfer of Problem Report #11517
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #11517 on 2008-07-04 22:55:22 UTC
Me just being picky, but it feels like your making it up as you go along
Is there a canon source for power levels beyond the Frieza saga? Because if not, I agree that we shouldn't just throw out numbers that have no backing. -- nonoitall 03:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
There is no canon source. The post-Frieza levels can stay, but they must be labelled as pure speculation. -Ridureyu
Gnorian 2:41 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) While this is mostly true, Akira apparently stated in one interview that Gohan's Battle Power (Power Level) was at 300,000,000, when he fought Cell as a Super Saiyan 2. It is notable that Akira intended to end DBZ at Frieza saga, with Goku dying on Namek and Gohan protecting Earth in his place (it was far too popular for it to be dropped so quickly). This explains the incredible rising in power level (battle power) as a means to aid the climatic-feel of the intended "final saga". With this in mind, you could assume (as I already have come to the conclusion) that power levels (battle powers) never rise so very drastically again. [Edit]: I strayed from the point, of which being that there are some guidelines that can be used to work out power levels (battle powers). If anything, the Power Level List may be most useful in finding sources for the post-Frieza battle powers (power levels) as a means for others to work out the most likely number for unstated powers.
No Canon source
There are no canon sources after the Frieza saga, so it would be false information to post any. The original power levels posted were outdated, such as Frieza's final form being at 12,000,000 when really, his power level was 120,000,000. This mistake was a translation mistake years ago for a fansite.... the offical Daizenshuu has the correct levels approved by Akira Toriyama himself. -- SSJGoku93 02:17, 16 August 2008
Still it might help to add some power levels anyway. User:Kazi22 16 August 2008
I would agree with you except, we'd need to find accurate levels that are not way out of proportion. ---- SSJGoku93 In my opinion if your making up levels, then the difference between SS2 goku and SS3 goku should be greater considering how powerful it would be and the extra power he has achieved. Joeyaa 05:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
don't forget that goku was in the real world, in other world he could use ss3 to its full potential
We didn't just make them up, I searched the internet for power levels just to get an idea of fan estimates, the levels are taken from all over the place. There was a big difference. Super Saiyan 2 is around 30 billion while Super Saiyan 3 is over 100 billion. The reason there was such a big power jump from original SSJ to SSJ2 is because of the mastery of SSJ, blah blah blah. But, hey like I said, if you feel the need, add to them, help improve them to be as accurate as possible. ---------- SSJGoku93
Quit making up random numbers. There is no way to tell what their power level is. I can do what you are doing. Mr. Satan 10,000,000. You are making up random facts. They should not put down if they are not fact.------ User.
I agree with user, fan-made power levels are usually varied by gigantic degrees, making most of them likely to be grossly inaccurate. One person told me that in an interview Akira Toriyama said that Gohan's power was 300,000,000--yet apparently an issue of V-Jump rates Cooler's 5th Form as 470,000,000... Unless the person I was speaking to was lying, then these two power levels certainly contradict one and other. It would help if the issue-number of V-Jump (or better yet, the scans of it) were written. ------ Gnorian
This is ridiculous
Why even bother to put a page like this? It's not even accurate at all. And much of it doesn't make any sense.
- Personally, I'd prefer to have only officially sourced information as well. That said, as long as the unofficial levels prominently display a disclaimer and are reasonably consistent with the series, I'm not strongly opposed to their presence. Still, I've always been a bit skeptical of their maintainability, since there's no authoritative source to fall back on should a disagreement occur. So, I guess technically I support their removal, though I don't much care as long as they aren't claiming to be official. -- 22:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Gnorian 2:52 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) I agree with this. I was greatly confused when I found Vegeta's battle power (power level) when using the Galick Gun stated without a source listing, as well as many of his other states without any indication of what it is based off... I loved this list not for it's speculation, but for it's official-backing which allowed me to make as realistic a speculation as I could make based on this wiki's sources. Now that so much speculation and unofficial content has contaminated the wiki, I am unable to use it for the correction of my list of speculated BPs (PLs) and will thus remain at a great loss unless this unofficial content is either removed, or strongly labelled what it is and up for debate. Dekoshu 03:00, 6 November 2008 (UTC) It would be possible if they make it more clearer.
Wasn't "OVER 9000" a mistranslation?
I'm pretty sure the manga and anime translations other than the Ocean dub said 8000... --21:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Dekoshu 21:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Some mistranslations are great, though. :D
- I checked and it looks like both versions of the anime use 9000, but if my translation of the manga is accurate, it says 8000 (and 1307 for Gohan, too). To prevent people from fighting over it, it would probably be good to list both versions and specify the source for each one. Now, does anyone have an accurately translated English manga, or know Japanese and have the original? :-) -- 21:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Dekoshu 22:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC) "IT'S OVER 9000!!!!! D:<" "WHAT 9000!?!??! D:"
Vegeta does say over 8000 in the non-US versions, but he crushes it. Clearly, it could be over 9000 just the same. The Kaio-ken calculations are estimates anyhow, and could also figure in what energy he lost as well. Point is, both are included in my table and justified (so don't remove it).
Meleniumshane90 00:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Kaioken was stated to double the power of the user. Vegeta was owning Kaioken Goku. Goku is not OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAND!
XOmega 11:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Using Dragonball Z/GT Card Power levels
since powerlevels stopped after the frieza saga how about we use the Power levels each Saiyan,Warrior and Villin were given in each of their cards.
- Who was responsible for 'coming up' with the levels on the cards, and do they conflict with known official levels? -- 21:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Im not sure but i belive Bandia worked with akira toyrima to set the power levels for the Cards, i will do research on it.
i did resaerch on the power levels and all the cards created up until the frieza saga have the same power levels as givin by akira toyrima, so after the frieza saga akira toyrima supplied each warriors power levels for the cards, voice man for Vegeta and Goku even aided with this Process. i hope ive been of help.
- Neat. Perhaps those could be an additional reference. Where's the source for Toriyama's involvement? -- 23:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Akira Toyrima only associated with Bandia for busniess reason and The name Dragonball Z/GT, How ever he did not interfere with Bandai Setting The PowerLevels Which still Makes The Powerlevels on The Card The most Officaial and only Officail Powerlevels, Which We Should use to Help The Wiki.
- Well... he hasn't interfered with a lot of different things that don't quite harmonize with canon Dragon Ball. He was actively involved in selecting the power levels in the series, and AFAIK the Daizenshuu; can the same be said about the cards? If not, they could probably still be noted, but I'm not sure if we could consider them to be official. -- 22:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Gnorian 3:15 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) My only experience with the DBZ card game was a GBA edition (which I didn't play much due to its system of combat being unappealing to my tastes) and I believe the battle powers (power levels) in that may have been inaccurate. However, the GBA game may not only be different from the actual card game, but my memory may also be correct. If we could get a-hold of the power levels listed on the cards, then this issue could easily be solved.
Can you list more power levels?
Dekoshu 21:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC) All I see is the Trunks Sagas' power levels of Trunks. "Show me your moves!!!!!"
- There are no official power levels stated after the Trunks Saga. -- 21:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Dekoshu 22:04, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Okay then
Power Level Listings that conflict with the Anime, Manga, and or Daizenshuu 7
Gnorian 1:45PM UTC/GMT 20/11/08: This is a listing of all the incorrect power levels in this wiki (that I could find, that is).
Nappa: It's listed as seven thousand for Nappa's power level, but is listed as four thousand in the daizenshuu. Also, it doesn't add up for Nappa to be nervous of Goku's first reading of five thousand and his second reading of over eight thousand, if his BP (PL) was this high. What makes tihs even more bizzare, is Nappa's BP is listed as FOUR thousand when he has powered to his maximum to try and defeat Goku...
Vegeta vs. Recoome: Here Vegeta's power is stated as 28,000, but it is 30,000 in the Daizenshuu.
Gohan and Krillen vs. Goku-Ginew: Both Gohan and Krillen are listed as being stronger than Goku-Ginew at 27,000 and 24,500. However, it can be noted that even with two of them against Ginew, who wasn't used to his new body, they were having trouble beating him, and certainly weren't having a flawless victory. Their BPs likely were likely much less than that, otherwise they would've finished Goku-Ginew quickly.
Vegeta vs. Jeice: .....That is quite a boost O_O: From 30,000 to 260,000 (especially considering Vegeta's BP only went up by one third after the Earth-Battle, where he was beaten to near-death). He does seem to gain some gigantic boost after resting, considering he squares off with Frieza for the first few minutes, but he didn't seem to have that huge an advantage over Jeice (Jeice did manage to punch him in the face a couple of times... of course Vegeta was sleep-deprived). This part of the series is very confusing with Vegeta's battle power... Unless someone comes up with something brilliant, I think it should be labelled as a guess if it stays at all. The same goes for Vegeta's power when he fought Frieza's first form.
Cooler's Revenge: .......These seem VERY inaccurate... I'd like to see scans of that V-Jump issue before I believe that's Cooler's fourth form, WITHOUT all the buff-ness and awkwardness Frieza underwent, is almost as strong as a Super Saiyan... yet Goku still managed to trade blows with him in base for a while. What also doesn't seem to add up, is that Captain Salza's Battle Power is lower than Neize's--it's true that the stronger person isn't always the leader, but he was notably the toughest out of Cooler's Armoured Force (or whatever they were called). After all, Salza was the only one out of his squad to survive till the end of he movie (where he was destroyed... but still).
I'd also like to stress that the non-official power levels listed should either be removed, or very clearly labelled that they are not official.
xOmega Nappa was fighting equal to Goku after focusing and powering up. Goku says the fight will take forever (and then he uses Kaioken). There's no reason why he wouldn't be 7,000+.
- Just a small comment: everywhere in the Manga and Anime it's stated that during the Vegeta Saga and Frieza Saga, only earthlings and a few more characters could actually change their power levels (during a fight, I guess they can improve really slowly through time). For example, Vegeta's power level is stated to be 18,000 by Zarbon when he arrives to Namek, and it's never mentioned that it's his "powered-up" level or anything. Frieza is surprised that Namekians can suppress their power-levels and then make it higher; the Ginyu Force is also baffled when thinking that the power-level the scouter gives them can change, even after a powerup. The exception is Captain Ginyu, which comments that has the coveted ability to change his power-level, and others that change their power levels but only when transforming physically, such as Frieza, Zarbon or Great Ape Vegeta. This and other comments make me think that, even though a warrior serving under Frieza as Nappa can power-up, if you read his power level before and after the power-up with a scouter, you would get the same level. That's why Raditz was so surprised when Goku and Piccolo changed their power levels when powering up to attack him. Therefore, if Nappa's power level is stated to be 4,000, it never changed. Powering up only allowed him to use its full potential. Therefore, it makes sense that Nappa's power-level before Goku and when fighting Goku is the same, it's just that Nappa was using less of it first and more of it later. At least that's how I see it. You "could" think that if he is not using all his power-level he has a lower power level at the time, but that would be like saying that a strong person is less strong if he pushes with less force, which is not true. Sega381 18:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Automated transfer of Problem Report #15036
The following message was left by Gnorian via PR #15036 on 2008-11-05 19:34:43 UTC
While in the dub, his battle power was stated as the same as the saibamen (1,200) it was stated that they were near the same power in the original Japanese.
Automated transfer of Problem Report #15038
The following message was left by Gnorian via PR #15038 on 2008-11-05 19:53:31 UTC
Nappa's Power Level (or Battle Power) is listed as 7,000 when fighting the Z-Warriors, but is listed as 4,000 in the Daizenshuu: http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2931/yehbiatch7zt.jpg
I have never heard such a high estimate of Nappa's power, and would assume this was a misinterpretation and exaggeration on the editor's part.
The following message was left by DoctorZack 10:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC) : I'm extremely impressed at Piccolo's 3,500 than anything else.
Automated transfer of Problem Report #15039
The following message was left by Gnorian via PR #15039 on 2008-11-05 19:59:04 UTC
Vegeta's Power Level (or Battle Power) is stated as 28,000 when he battles the Ginew Force, but is listed in the Daizenshuu as 28,000: http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2931/yehbiatch7zt.jpg
Adjustments to the table
There are admittedly some discrepancies between various official sources for power levels. (IE, Raditz' power level being 1,200 vs 1,500, or Goku's power level being 8,000 vs over 9,000, etc.) I was thinking that instead of having one column for power levels, it might make more sense to have a few for the different sources. Like, one for the manga, one for the anime, one for the Daizenshuu, and if English translations differed from the originals, we could have a separate column for them as well. (This might eliminate the need for the two source columns.) Alternatively, we could try stating each version of a power level in one cell, and have a single source column where the sources would be listed in respective order.
It just seems like right now it's a little confusing as to where the information on some of these conflicting levels is coming from. I don't have copies of the Daizenshuu or anything, but I wanted to run this idea by you guys in case someone with the resources and time feels up to doing it. --11:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is Cooler's power level stated as being higher than SSJ Goku's?
- Cooler's power level in his transformed state outclasses Goku's Super Saiyan transformation during the Frieza Saga, hands down, and unlike numerous power levels in the chart, at least there is a citation with Cooler's. Storm talk – projects 20:56, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
But it says one this Wiki's own article, "Cooler is able to easily overpower Goku in this form, until at length he grows tired of the fight and feels Frieza had further shamed his family by dying at Goku's hand. As he makes plans to destroy the planet, Goku's rage transcends, transforming him into a Super Saiyan. Off-guard and arrogant, Cooler is batted around easily, and then he realizes how Frieza lost to Goku." Hyper Zergling 02:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
- The last power level for Goku's Super Saiyan transformation in the is while he battles Frieza on Namek. The fight with Cooler takes place at a later time, in a non-canon universe. Even if Cooler's Revenge could be properly placed into the Dragon Ball timeline, it's still non-canon to the mainstream series and chances are Goku's power level in the film wouldn't be concise with the film's position in the series' timeline. Long-answer-short: Cooler's Revenge is non-canon but what's certain is Goku would be stronger in the film than he was when he first becomes a Super Saiyan. Storm talk – projects 02:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I very much have to disagree with Cooler's BP. Based on an interview with Akira, Cell and SSJ2 Gohan had about 300,000,000 BP... Meaning Cooler and SSJ1 Goku would be stronger than an SSJ2. Gnorian 14:22 13th of February 2009 (UTC)
New Structure & Input
I just did a major restructure on the table & will be doing a complete revision of it this weekend. Anyone who can provide scans for information can send them to me on here (link-wise) or on my email - pm me.
I want this table to be a useful resource for everyone, but will need further data, I've been watching the Japanese, Ocean Dub, old & new FUNimation dubs to get the power levels. I've also been using the Daizenshuu 7, but don't have ALL the pages to work with. I've removed some of the power levels given on here because they were added as an opinion with zero physical basis (for instance, the Kamehameha Kao-Ken X3 & 4 Goku used on Vegita) and have tried to limit the table to fact. Also, I'm trying to keep this somewhat chronological (to the extent of when it is presented to you in the anime).
I'll be back on tomorrow to try and fix the bugs out of this table, I think something was sketchy on one or two of the lines, because in Opera, I see an additional collumn where it shouldn't be. Meleniumshane90 02:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Just wondering what the source on some of these unsourced entries are — particularly Recoome's 40,000? --05:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
i want to know what was the powe level of zarbon monster in daizenshuu7
- Zarbon transformed is never stated in the daizenshuu. The only reference is in the video game RPG. However, since all the other power levels match the game's accurately, it's only logical that the game reference would be accurate as well. - 19:35, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
What's this stuff about 1.5x Kaioken?
Kaioken was stated to double the user's power. In Vol. 20 (which is after Goku says "Kaioken!!!"), It says "Not even doubling his strength through the Kaio-ken was enough to stop the saiyan...". Toriyama made a mistake with Kaioken x2.Also, Goku said that his battle with Nappa would go on forever, and they were shown fighting equally a few pages back from there. That should make Nappa at least 7,000. xOmega 01:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I've been using lately the new Wikia editor, which just appeared and allows to edit the wikis in a graphical way. It seems to be breaking table compatibility with some browsers? If so, I guess the creators of the editor should be noted. Sega381 03:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Nappa + a few other things
DBZ expert here again.
I posted power levels for Freeza on his talkpage. Daizenshuu = lol. Just pay attention to the manga.
Anyway, Nappa is close to Goku's 8000 because they were fighting evenly for a little there when Nappa calmed down.
Freeza... well, check the talk page there.
Raditz's 1500 is probably a mistake because it's stated more than once in the manga that Raditz is about 1200 and the same strength as the Saibamen.
Or... are these only STATED powerlevels? Because if they are, then some have to be removed.
Also, the powerlevels of Piccolo, Krillin, and Gohan are wrong. IIRC, in the manga, no answer is given to whom which power actually belongs. It's incorrect to assume that Piccolo has the strongest, Gohan the weakest, etc. It could be the other way around. I'm talking about the 981, 1083, and 1220.
EDIT: Where's it stated in the manga that the Ozaru transformation multiplies power 10 times?
EDIT: The power levels of Tien and Yamcha and Chaozu and Piccolo while fighting the Saiyans are all .
EDIT: Daizenshuus are not canon. Don't use their powerlevels. They are simply Birdstudio's best guess for the power levels, not Toriyama's.
- Just some small comments. I'm no expert but I'll answer some of your questions and state some stuff.
- 1) Daizenshuus are considered canon at least by this wiki. This may not be shared by everybody, but it's a topic I'm not very knowledgable about, so I won't go further. Anyway, the list is consistent with this wiki considering Daizenshuus as cannon. If we want to change that, I guess it should be discussed thoroughly.
- 2) This list is about ONLY STATED power levels (or directly calculated by things stated). That's why BOTH power levels for Raditz are in the list, because both are mentioned, even if one or the other is wrong. It only makes sense to list stated levels; guesses, however close may be, are only guesses, and do not belong with encyclopedic material. You mention that "some have to be removed" if this list only contains stated levels. That may be so, but please do mention which ones are the ones you consider should be removed (besides the Daizenshuu ones, see point 1).
- 3) Come on, one thing is saying "the powerlevels of Piccolo, Krillin, and Gohan are wrong", but what I think you meant is "the powerlevels of Piccolo, Krillin, and Gohan are not clearly identified". You're right that we can't be sure which one belongs to which one. However, in the anime, slightly different power levels are clearly stated for each one of them, and the manga ones were ordered following this logic. But it's true, a note could be added mentioning that it's not clearly stated.
- 4) "Where's it stated in the manga that the Ozaru transformation multiplies power 10 times?" Check the list: Dragon Ball manga, Vol. 20, #233. It was kinda surprising to me too, but it's there, at least in the translation I have. Page 6, Vegeta tells that to Goku after transforming into Ozaru. If the translation I have is wrong, we can remove that.
- 5) I don't know what you mean by "The power levels of Tien and Yamcha and Chaozu and Piccolo while fighting the Saiyans are all . " I guess there's something missing in that sentence. In any event, as mentioned in the list, they are taken from the Daizenshuu. On the topic of the Daizenshuu, see point 1).
- --Sega381 23:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
1) I am knowledgeable about them. They are guesses made by Birdstudios. They aren't different from like, the Star Wars expanded universe. Cool stories, but nothing. My guesses are as good as theirs. Like I said - if you're going by CANON stated powerlevels, see point #2. 2) MFG has a list of STATED powerlevels. STATED powerlevels should be manga only. 3) That's what I meant, yeah. 4) I didn't know if it was canon or not. I only remember seeing it in the Daizenshuu things, but not in the manga. Just wanted to make sure it was accurate. 5) See my point 1. --Unknown
- MFG's power level list is part of the 12,000,000 club. Their power levels aren't accurate, and I'm a member of their forums, and I know for a fact that they know that their power levels aren't accurate. They're currently trying to get the members of their forums to revamp certain pages on their main site, because their main admin who updates the pages on the site (Named Sharky) isn't able to revamp it right now. The power level page is their main concern at the moment. Sega's done a good job of editing these, I've seen the ones from the Daizenshuu and they look pretty accurate to me. --MistressGojira 03:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
- 1) Once again, I won't go into detail about the canonicity of the Daizenshuus. I just want to make two points: first, that this is not the only article that counts Daizenshuus as canon or part of the canon, so its a subject bigger than only this article, it's something that should be discussed wiki-wise, not article-wise. So the discussion isn't about the Daizenshuu's powerlevels being canon or not, it's about putting Daizenshuu's info into this wiki, I think it should be discussed somewhere else, like the Daizenshuu article. And two, even if we assume they are not canon, this list never says its a list of canon levels, but of official power levels. In the worst case, you can count Daizenshuus as non-canon but very much used resources, and the list clearly states when a power level comes from the Daizenshuu. If someone wants to treat them as non-canon, just ignore the entries referencing the Daizenshuus.
- 2) "STATED powerelevels should be manga only." Again an assumption, that only the manga is canon. This wiki also includes content from the anime, movies and games (and your favourite, the Daizenshuus). It's never stated in this wiki that all the info has to be manga-only; quite the contrary, it intends to include info from all the sources mentioned above. Furthermore, if you want to take into account only the manga levels, the ones only mentioned in the anime and movies are clearly separated in the list, so just ignore them. This way, all the info is presented in the wiki, and the reader has the choice to use it or ignore it.
- --Sega381 03:40, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
- It's not about canon, it's about verifiability. The power levels listed can be verified in the Daizenshuu, therefore they can be added to the article. It's that simple. --MistressGojira 05:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
http://anime.myfavoritegames.com/showthread.php?t=105759 (also I would like to ask if someone has the V-Jump list)
"So lately I’ve been taking advantage of the fact that Mandarake, center for anime and all other weirdness, is right on my train route from my dorm to campus. Mandarake has this one store that sells old issues of Jump and other manga magazines for ridiculously cheap prices (about 2-6 dollars on average, even for issues over 10 years old), and I’ve been picking up old Jump issues with various special Toriyama stuff. Today I bought the 1989 double issue of Jump (which celebrates Jump’s 21st anniversary, and contains the chapter with Goku and Vegeta’s beam struggle). It contains a battle power list that seems to have been a source for the one in Daizenshuu 7.
It is in the form of a pull-out poster type thing. On the front side it has a short DB quiz (what’s the name of the fighting race that lives on Planet Vegeta: a) Seiya-jin b) Salad-jin c) Saiya-jin), and on the back side it has the battle power thing. There’s another foldout poster too, advertising the Jump Anime Carnival, which was where the Toriyama anime “Kosuke-sama” premiered. On one side it has a picture of Toriyama and the other manga artists who attended, all wearing American football uniforms and smiling like lunatics. Fun stuff.
The battle power thing is called “Final Warriors-Great Collection!! Cards”. The introduction is in the form of Bulma with her scouter, saying that each of the characters is given a number indicating their strength, and a symbol showing what martial arts school they’re from (there’s the Turtle school, Crane school, Demon school, God school, Kaio school, and Planet school, for Saiyans). It actually never refers to these numbers are sentou-ryoku/“battle powers”, but rather their daitai no sentou-nouryoku “approximate battle ability”. With the exception of Kame-sennin, all the numbers for characters featured in the Daizenshuu 7 battle power list match the numbers given there. This issue came out in July 1989, while Daizenshuu 7 didn’t come out until February 1996, so it seems that this was a source for the Daizenshuu 7 list, or they share the same source. The game DBZ: Kyoushuu Saiya-jin (1990) and DBZ: Super Saiya-jin Densetsu (1992) also use many of the same battle powers that were on this list and later in Daizenshuu 7.
Son Gohan: over 2,800 In Daizenshuu 7 his BP for the battle with the Saiyans is given as simply “2,800”, with no “over”.
Son Goku (15 years old): 180 The same as Daiz 7's entry for Goku during his fight with Tenshinhan.
Son Goku (18 years old): 910 This would be him at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai. It's way higher than the 416 that Raditz originally read him as, but lower than Goku's Kamehameha during the Raditz fight ("924 and rising") so maybe that's what they were basing it off of.
Son Goku (24 years old): over 8,000 In Daiz 7 the "over" part is missing.
Kami: 220 This one's unique to this chart. I'd thought Kami was supposed to be stronger than Daimao.
Piccolo Daimao: 260 Piccolo Daimao/Ma Junior: 3,500 Raditz: 1,500 Nappa: 4,000 All the same as Daiz 7.
Vegeta: Impossible to Measure It notes that “his strength is unfathomable…!!”. This was all printed while the Vegeta fight was still going on.
Chi Chi: 130 The Japanese Wikipedia page for Chi Chi says that the V-Jump special has Chi Chi as 137, noting that she's on par with Kame-sennin.
Chaozu: 610 Tenshinhan: 1,830 Yajirobe: 970 Kuririn: 1,770 Yamcha: 1,480 Yajirobe's BP is the only one not in Daiz 7. These would all be from during the fight against Vegeta and Nappa.
Tao Pai Pai: 210 Cyborg Tao Pai Pai, to be exact. The Japanese Wikipedia page for Tao Pai Pai said until recently that the V-Jump special issue pegged regular Tao Pai Pai as 110, regular Cyborg Tao Pai Pai as 125, and the Super Dodon-pa as 210. Here it has 210 as Cyborg Tao Pai Pai's regular power.
Tsuru-sennin: 120 Same as Daiz 7.
Kame-sennin (Muten Roshi): 180 In Daiz 7 it's "139", taken from when Bulma scouts everyone's power after converting Raditz's scouter (keep in mind that 139 is supposed to be his BP at the 22nd TB; he powered up from training for the tournament, so he was weaker at the 21st TB). The text says that "he fires the original Kamehameha", so maybe this is supposed to be his Kamehameha's power?
Karin: 190 Mister Popo: 1,030 Kaio: 3,500 All unique to this chart. This would put Kaio as being equal to Piccolo during the fight with Nappa. Popo's BP is...quite high."
- I don't know how "official" or canon this list is. But I guess if we could get scans of the list, we could add them to the list citing the source, as it would then be verifiable.--Sega381 23:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- Here is the scans. It is from Weeky Jump from 1989, much earlier than Daizenshuu 7. It seems that or Daizenshuu 7 used it as a base, or they share the same source.
- This one is from V-Jump, it is so strange (and Nail powerlevel is missing a zero) but I will post it anyway:
- Source: http://www.hoipoi.org/Poderes_De_Luta:Guias (in portuguese)
Vegeta Great Ape Power level
Vegeta and his Great Ape x10 power level: this is a list of stated power levels, or levels that can be directly calculated by stated values. In the manga, Vol. 20, #233, Vegeta clearly states that transforming into Great Ape multiplies a Saiyan's power by ten (by the way, this is consisten with Goku's Great Ape power level as a child, given by the Daizenshuu 7). It doesn't matter if in reality his usable power level was weaker because of whatever reason, his theorical power level using the information given is 180,000. That's all that's stated in the list. We're not trying to determine a best-estimate.--Sega381 01:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, that artificial moon Vegeta created drops his power level. We're never sure how serious it was, but Vegeta was reluctant to use the technique because of this. SpeedBurner 01:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, bu you're still missing the point. We are not trying to guess Vegeta's actual power level during his transformation with Goku. We're just stating the theorical power level for him. Ok, he might have had a lower power level when fighting Goku as Great Ape. But Vegeta's theorical power level as Great Ape is 10x his regular level. That's all that is stated there, because that's all the real info we have.--Sega381 01:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
- It is stated during the Saiyan saga, so it is wrong after all. If you desire to, you create a "theorical power levels" section, which would include Goku Kaioken 10x with 900,000 (as Daizenshuu stated he could go 10x while he had 90,000). Ilovefoxes 04:15, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
- So does that mean that Great Ape Vegeta from the Sayan Saga is technically stronger then Ginyu ?
I think we should only put power levels that have a source and that don't flat out contradict anything approved or said/written by Akira Toriyama himself.
For instance some games such as Dragonball Z: Sagas may put Frieza at 12,000,000 however since Akira approved of 120,000,000 not 12,000,000 then Dragonball Z: Sagas contradicts well known and trustworthy information/sources, so therefore it should not be included (Frieza's anyway) especially considering it is off by a ten-fold margin.
Now as for these Final Warriors- Great Collection!! cards section in Weekly Jump it is a little different considering it pre-dates the Daizenshuu yet concurs with it on all essential points, since it pre-dates yet agrees with approved power levels it should be included since it is proving its verasity.
Now as for V-Jump it should also be included it has a source and doesn't disagree with any trustworthy power levels except for Nail which is an obvious mistake and is a minority (This is only for the scans shown above and I disagree about using Cooler's 470,000,000 and other power levels as we don't have enough proof that it was ever even in V-Jump). Rhm 89 13:14, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Power level of games
i readed in some sites that the games Dragon Ball Z: Kyôshū! Saiyan, '''''Dragon Ball Z II: Gekishin Freeza!!''''', '''''Dragon Ball Z: Super Saiyan Densetsu and Dragon Ball Z: Sagas show some Power Levels.
i will gonna start playing these games, so i was thinking if we should include de Power levels stated in games
what do you think ?
Chiaotzufan 20:41, March 12, 2010 (UTC) Chiaotzufan
In my opinion they should as long as they have a source and we can fit them all (all the power levels from any source that is).Demon Prince Vegeta 07:00, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
TOO MANY 0S
Frieza at 100% of his power was 12,000,000 not 120,000,000.
THis needs to be discussed and corrected.
Goku in Super Saiyan form at the time his fight with Frieza was 15,000,000 not 150,000,000.
THis needs to be discussed and corrected.
There is no mention of Goku OR Frieza in the anime with power levels of 120,000,000 and 150,000,000
People say he said this in an interview.
Prove it.Provide a link to this interview.
People say the Daizenshuus say this.
Prove it.Post an image of the page that says this.Provide a link
If you can not provide empirical evidence then all you have are unsupported,unjustified,subjective assertions.
A WIKI with integrity and legitimacy can not allow any article to provides unspecified,unsourced,unsupported,and false information.
(((O))) 09:38, March 20, 2010 (UTC) (((O))) 3-20-10
- Hmmm.... just look at the Daizenshuu scan up there in THIS SAME TALK PAGE, under the title "Automated transfer of Problem Report #15038". Could you just check the facts a little before acting so outraged? And by the way, you have provided no source for the power levels you have stated. Your source was probably an old and incorrect translation of the Daizenshuu that has been used on some websites, see User_talk:Sega381#powerlevel... for more details.--Sega381 17:04, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Sega 381 what you write is patently false.
- My postition is that all articles need to be properly supported and sourced.There is no mention of power levels of 150,000,000 and 120,000,000 for SS Goku and 100% Frieza in the manga or anime, only the Daizenshuus..There is an image of SS Goku and Frieza with power levels of 150,000,000 and 120,000,000 from the Daizenshuus posted but there is no mention the interview Toriyama did where he supposedly stated Goku and Frieza's power level.There is no image posted from the manga or anime.Until someone DOES post such an image then no one should be able to make mention of such materials as a source.
- And another thing.If you do not recognize GT as canon then you CANNOT claim the Daizenshuus are canon. Toriyama had as much involvement (or lack thereof) in the Daizenshuus as he did in GT.You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
- The problem here is talking about canon. (Btw, I haven't said anything about GT anywhere, so I'm not sure what that is about). It is not about canon or not, that is mainly a fan debate that will have arguments for both sides. This wiki includes information from the manga, anime, movies, games, official (widely known) guides, and Toriyama statements. That's it, we include all that information. We do not decide which one is cannon and which one is not. The article never says that 150.000.000 or whatever is cannon. The article only mentions that in the Daizenshuu, which is a source of Dragon Ball info used in this wiki, those are the power levels stated. That's all. The article is not trying to state that Toriyama in his mind decided that Goku has this or that power level. It is just stating the facts related to the sources this wiki decided important enough to mention. Therefore, the article can happily mention two contradicting power levels for a specific character at the same moment, if they are sourced, as it is not trying to decide which one is more "canon". The canon debate can't and won't be decided, ever, because it is instrinsically subjective. Even if it could be decided, say having a month-long interview with Toriyama, the point of this wiki is to mention all the information available, not to point what is canon.
- I fully agree with the fact that everything should be sourced. The only difference is that you're only considering valid sources a subset of what this wiki considers as valid, by trying to use only "canon" sources, which is subjective. Btw, I know there are mentions to "canon" in several places in the wiki. They should be eventually reworded or removed, to be consistent with what I'm telling you.Sega381 01:19, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Then let us drop the usage of the term "canon"
- Let us not debate GT or whether or not something is official canon or not;that is a debate to have elsewhere,another time.
- If this is the discussion page for the list of power levels,which I believe it is,then let us debate power levels.
- Which is all I have debated beforehand.
- I am not concerned with "canon".
- However the decision making process needed to determine "canon" is not subjective,far from it,but as I have said earlier,that is a debate for another time.
- If we are going to discuss power levels then this point should be discussed.In the anime Goku's power level after being healed from his fight with Captain Ginyu is given as 300,000.Whether this is stated in the manga or not,I do not know,but I do know that 3,000,000 is not given.
- Goku's final power level cannot be 150,000,000 because the Kaioken technique multiplies a user's base power level.If Goku's base power level at the beginning of his fight with Frieza is stated as 300,000 in the anime, then the Kaioken technique x10 and x20 he used prior to his attaining SS form would multiply his power level to 3,000,000 and 6,000,000.And if SS form approximately doubles a users max power level,( which is stated several times during the anime and manga,) then Goku's final power level during the Frieza saga would have been approximately 15,000,000.Frieza in his final form 50% of his power is stated as 6,000,000,which would make his final power level 12,000,000.
- (((O)))(((O))) 3-20-10
- I agree that the canon discussion belongs somewhere else. I was using it to explain the purpose of the article, but it seems I was not clear enough. Let me rephrase it to see if we can agree on that.
- The purpose of this article, and in fact of the wiki, is not to decide what information is right or wrong. The purpose is to collect all the relevant Dragon Ball information into one wiki, from the different sources considered as valid in the wiki. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the 30,000,000 figure is right or wrong. Your reasoning may be right or not, I'm not going to argue with that now. But even if you're correct, it doesn't matter to this article. This article just states that Daizshensuu says that Goku's power level is 30,000,000. That may be a complete error or not, but it is not the purpose of the wiki to judge that, just to state the facts. It is up to the reader to take the information in whatever way he chooses to. For example, Raditz has two power levels stated from two different sources. One of them may be the correct one, but the article is not trying to determine that, just to mention all the power levels stated.
- Therefore, the 30,000,000 value is given in a source, and it is stated as such. The values you're stating, if sourced, could be mentioned too, alongside the Daizenshuu ones. I'm particularly interested in th 300,000 figure, as I don't have the source for that. Could you find out the exact source? You mention the anime... if you can find out which episode (and hopefully what sub, japanese one or english one, if it is only in one of them), we can add it to the list. And we can even add some of the calculated levels (with the Kaioken for example) to the list, along the ones from the Daizenshuu. The same goes for the 6,000,000 figure, which I haven't seen before. If you can provide exact and verifiable sources for these figures, just add them to the list. Do not remove the Daizenshuu ones, as they are the Daizenshuu ones, and can happily live alongside the other ones from more authoritative sources.
- I hope I was clearer this time. Maybe the way the information is presented in this article can lead to this confusion; maybe it needs a clarification note before the table. And probably this Goku-Frieza power levels are not the best example to use in the Power Level article, due to the conflicts it produces.--Sega381 01:30, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
- K, I have no sources other than my memory, but 120,000,000? 150,000,000? Seriously? No.
- 1. LOGIC - Whats the point of going into "oh my, he has a powerlevel of 28,000, he has one of 30,000, that's 2,000 more" and they act like they are ridiculously stronger and there's no point to even fighting. when not very long after there is a 30 MILLION difference between Goku and Freeza. 30-F'ING-MILLION. Oh damn, baby Gohan is so much stronger than Raditz, I mean, 1300 to his 1200 PL, a whole 100 stronger. 30-F'ING-MILLION!?!?! Goku should have been able to defeat Freeza with only his left pinky finger, while drunk, on acid, and malnourished all at the same time.
- 2. MATH - Goku after being healed after Ginyu ordeal has a power level of 300,000. Kaio-ken x10 = 3,000,000, kaio-ken x20 - 6,000,000. Freeza #1 - 530,000, #2 - over 1 million, #3 can't remember off top of my head, #4. 25% = 3,000,000, 50% - 6,000,000 (hey that's equal to Goku!) 100% - 12,000,000
- Now, I can't remember WHERE I read/heard this, but I remember it so well, that ORIGINALLY, the Super Saiya-jin form multiplied the users powerlevel by 50. 300,000 x 50 = 15,000,000! 220.127.116.11 04:23, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
- I hope I was clearer this time. Maybe the way the information is presented in this article can lead to this confusion; maybe it needs a clarification note before the table. And probably this Goku-Frieza power levels are not the best example to use in the Power Level article, due to the conflicts it produces.--Sega381 01:30, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
What matters is the proportional difference between fighters, not the actual difference. 120,000,000 = 80% of 150 million. 1200 = ~90% of 1300. A headbutt at supersonic speed is going to hurt A LOT if the power levels are that close. Vegeta was a lot more skilled than Cui, Dodoria, and Zarbon, because he'd spent two decades on the front lines and they hadn't been in combat for quite some time. There are also other factors to consider. A guy with a black belt has maybe the same power level as a typical street thug, but that "fight" would only last a few seconds. 18.104.22.168 03:18, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
Since we have V-Jump power levels up I would love to see Weekly Jumps up as well. So anyone up for it?.Rhm 89 05:50, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
Vegeta weakened after creating the moon: at least 4,000
Chapter 233; Page 11; Panel 03
"Even if I raise the Kaio-ken to x5, it still won't have any effect on him!!!!"
Goku using a Kaioken of 5x: 40,000
So that would makes Oozaru Vegeta beyond 40,000. By calculation, his base power was over 4,000.
Ilovefoxes 09:40, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Good call. It's listed on the page as 18,000 so it's all consistent. At 180,000 poor Goku didn't have a chance. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 10:21, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, Vegeta stated that his powerlevel decreased after creating the moon. And based on his performance after his transformation turned off, it's much smaller than before.
- But I am not sure if we can tell that someone power "decreases" as he runs out of enermy. I mean, a character very tired an get enough strength for a punch... what do you think?
- Ilovefoxes 20:39, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
Coola movie powerlevels
I believe this scan is the source
Ilovefoxes 06:19, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
- There don't appear to be any power levels on that scan... what is it from and where are the levels? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:05, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
This page is waaay too confusing
Seriously, this page need some cleaning.
- A better table layout, easier to read. I will look forward this
- Separate Manga / Guides / Anime / Movies and Specials / Videogames sections. It's very frustating and confusing to read something "334 in manga page X, 330 in anime episode Y"...
- Remove foreing translations. It does not matter if "Over 9,000" is an Internet meme. Here in Brazil dub, Freeza was stated as 53,000, which is nothing just a mistake.
Ilovefoxes 19:47, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
- However, as stated in the Manual of Style and guidelines, this wiki IS focused on the English translation of the series, so it is consistent to state English dub levels. It's not foreign from this wiki's point of view.
- About the separate sections, I think it's a matter of opinion mostly. You may want to try it out and check how it looks putting them separately.
- Lastly, nice table template!--Sega381 00:51, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- I understand. I hate names like "Turtle Hermit", but that's what the Wiki owner are looking for.
- However, translations mistakes are... mistakes! For example, we know that "over 9,000" is a complete mistake because an Kaioken 2x "over 18,000" would have beaten Vegeta!
- If it is important to stay (not in my opinion), at least it should be in an separated "Translation and Dub Issues" section. Otherwise, it will give the impression that content is qualified, which isn't!
- Thanks, something I am good in is layout. =P
- Ilovefoxes 05:06, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
- If we were to finally separate the sources, we could have a separate table for dub issues, or maybe a note clearly stating it. We would have to see which way looks better.
- And btw, I'm used to the Spanish translation of the series, which stays much closer to the original names than the English dubs (it uses names like Uranai Baba, Tao Pai Pai, Kami Sama, etc..). So it's weird for me too to call the characters by the English translation. But that are the guidelines, at least for now, and due to the focus of the wiki, I don't think they'll change anytime soon, if ever.--Sega381 00:18, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Another magazine scan
Hi, I saved all images I found about magazine power levels in my hd, I think I have one that is not know to this site
This one show the powerlevels from all Ginyu Tokusentai members and Freeza forms, unfortunately you can't tell because of the img quality and the bottom of the pic is cropped. I had saved too an high resolution raw version that you could see everything
I should have take note of all power levels in the pic, unfortunately I didn't. If I remember well, the bottom numbers are related to "kili" levels, how to convert to "scouter" power levels of something of that sort Saiyajin123 03:08, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
- There is a need to upload a better quality version of this picture so all the numbers will be clear to read, and the uploader should write the source of this picture (from which magazine did it came from?). Dxrd 17:48, July 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Does the Ginyu force pictures are from the manga? It's odd that there is no background behind the characters
Saiya123, could you provide a link to where you found the power level picture?
- That's a very interesting image. The Weekly Jump states Kame-sennin and Kami-sama as 180 and 220 respectively, and this scan display images from Kame-sennin muscle form and "Sheng" (initially I was thinking they mistook Kami-sama from Piccolo Daimao old form).
- Ilovefoxes 20:02, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
about that picture
i think i see vegetas power being 200 million or something like that. that would make sense considering hes stronger than goku when they are fighting the androids
- You are right about that, good eye
- Interesting, Vegeta is given over 2 million in Freeza saga, that would mean he increased his power since them (to 4,000,000)
- Man, I would like to see a hq version of that picture... is that just a thumbnail or what?
- Ilovefoxes 22:25, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
Power Level difference in FUNimation's Dragon Box 2 Frieza
I've just been informed that the book that comes with the second Dragon Box made by FUNimation states that Frieza in his 100% power form has a power level of 100,000,000, which obviously differs from the level we have on here from the Daizenshuu. Can anyone else confirm this? If so, I think it should certainly be added in just underneath as we have with characters like Raditz when there are different levels in various places. Dragon Ball Z GT Goku 05:00, July 20, 2010 (UTC)
mr. popo's power level
on the first picture in the page it's stated that mr popo's power level is over 1000! if so, why didn't he just helped the z-fighters against some major villains in dragonball? he was even stronger then piccolo jr etc
- I think that he's not supposed to. Like Kami, his role is indirect, providing help through resources and training rather than by fighting. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:31, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
- He is far stronger than Goku when he defeated King Piccolo. Either way, why he did not helped against King Piccolo anyway?
- It is strange for sure. :)
- Mr Popo is stated to bee weaker than Kami. Kishimpl
Lol, the web show Dragon Ball Abridged brought up another good point that you've reminded me of. When Goku came back from death to help fight Nappa and Vegeta, his friends were killed while Goku was traveling. Why didn't Mr. Popo use his teleportation carpet to get Goku there instantly? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:28, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
he was making toast XD Bardock. 18:26, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
but i do agree it's a good point, if so piccolo would still be alive :( Bardock. 18:26, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
Popo's power level seems to be whatever it needs to be, which is great x3 If I remember correctly, there was a scene in which he was blocking the attacks of Trunks and Goten (I think they were SSJ too) with absolutely no difficulty. If Mr. Popo ever decided to fight... it would be the end for us all... Urkelbot666 (talk) 19:31, December 29, 2016 (UTC)
Some powerlevels are wierd!!
I noticed that some powerlevels cant be right. First of Mr. Popo cant be that strong, he whas trained by Kami and that would make him the strongest on earth.
Second off all its not official but i personaly think that Kami (and he stated it him self) that he whas stronger than King Piccolo, meaning that Kami would be between 280 - 310.
And about Master Roshi and Mercenery Toa, I think Toa cant be that strong as Roshi is the strongest Human if the Z-Fighters woudlnt be counted with.
And I think the powerlevels are as followed:
Master Roshi: 139 (base) - 179 (50%) - 219 (100%)
Goku: 120 (21th) - 180 (22th) - 220 (King Piccolo 1.) - 260 (King Piccolo 2.) - Far above the 300 (23th)
Tien: 180 (22th) - ~260 (23th)
Mr Popo: ~280
King Piccolo: 210 (old) - 260 (young)
Korin: 180 - 200
ChiChi: 100 (Normal) - Strongest being in the universe (Angry)
Toa: 140 (First encounter) - 180 / 190 (Cyborg)
Also I think that until the Piccolo saga Kami is the strongest being on earth, and im damn sure of it.
Brad1201 11:26, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
Fan-made power levels have no place on this page. If you think that you're right and official power levels, don't try to edit the official power level page. Kaonohiokala 1:35 AM HST, September 25, 2010
Im not editing it. people should see how stupid the makers are. Also the makers have made a mistake. Kami states that he is stronger than King Piccolo and Popo meaning that my power level suggestions are way more accurate than those of the makers. Brad1201 16:26, September 25, 2010 (UTC)
- Feel free to point any inaccuracies you may find, but in this talk page only. The creators of DB, being human, do make mistakes. And as some of the power levels stated come from god knows where (until they got to the magazines or books), who knows who actually made them. As Kaonohiokala pointed out, however, we just report the published power levels, no matter how weird they might be.
- But it would be interesting to get the exact quote and episode where Kami states that he is stronger than King Piccolo. Do you have that information?--Sega381 04:03, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
- I sort of agree with you. However, these powerlevels in the article are OFFICIAL ones, given in databooks and official sources. We agree or not, they must stay in the page like that.
- First of all, there are some notes in the power level table you give:
- Master Roshi: 139 (base) - 179 (50%) - 219 (100%) --> Not bad, but it is stated in V-Jump that Jackie Chun "original Kamehameha" as 180. Since Kame-sennin was defeated by Tenshinhan (180) using his 50% form, it makes sense for him to have 159 on that form. Right?
- Tien: 180 (22th) - ~260 (23th) --> Close dude! But he is stated as 250 in Raditz saga! :P
- Mr Popo: ~280 --> If you look at Goku fight, Goku who is supposed to be 260 can't lay a finger in Mr. Popo. And Mr. Popo is playing with Goku ("oops! I hit you"). So I agree with the V-Jump that states him as 1,030.
- Kami: 300 --> Hell no! Kami-sama could defeat Goku (who had 260) with just a finger! A FINGER!! He should be around 1,300 or something like that.
- Korin: 180 - 200 - ChiChi: 100 - Toa: 140 (First encounter) - 180 / 190 (Cyborg) --> Well, the V-Jump states them as 190, 130 and 210 (cyborg) respectively, you are not far from them.
- Also, one note: I don't know why Mr. Popo did not defeated Piccolo Jr. (however he is clearly stronger than King Piccolo and did not beat him either), however when Goku was near death Kami-sama asked Tenshinhan to kill him because "a god cannot commit suicide". That's why Kami-sama did not confronted Piccolo until he learned Mafuba, he dies if Piccolo dies and so that also suicide! :)
- Ilovefoxes 03:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC)
- I think that Mr. Pop being a Genie could not hurt someone, or its simply not his task or something. But i dont think Kami isnt that strong, I suggested ~300 because he stated in the anime that Piccolo and Goku surpassed him in strength though both were above the 300 but below the 360.
- However you are right on Tienshinhan but i dissagree on the 159 for Roshi as he clearly matched Tien and Tien asked why Master Roshi didnt transform to fullpower and i think indeed Tien was stronger but the Kamehameha is in his base form and a Ki shot is always stronger then your normal powerlevel, well if you charge it that is. Image how strong Roshi is when he fires a Kamehameha in 100% full power form :P
- Mr. Popo states that both Kami and he could take King Piccolo out whenever they wanted. Kami states that Ma Jr. surpassed him and so did Goku but Raddits has a power of 1200 / 1500 so i very much doubt Kami has a powerlvl of 1300. Though i wouldnt want him as my opponent if he was to regain his youth, seeing King Piccolo grew in strengh (according to my power levels from 210/220 to 260) Kami would go to 350 and thus on pair or stronger then Goku and Piccolo. Idiots, why didnt they wish him younger :P
--Brad1201 10:52, November 7, 2011 (UTC)
Mr. Popo level
I know we're not supposed to give personal opinion on power levels, but I think for Popo's, it's sort of needed. Popo states that Kami is stronger than him, so the only way this level works is if Popo had gotten stronger, presumably during the training period with the humans preparing for the Saiyans. This level cannot be from the early DragonBall days, as that contradicts Popo's statement.
KamikazePyro 17:06, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Kami's strength likely comes from his expert command of energy and other Namekian techniques, like regeneration. Popo may not have been referring to brute strength, which is what is measured by power levels, as seen on the chart. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:14, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
I found another scan with power levelsHi guys, I found this new scan on the internet, I think it must be right because all the power levels that it contains are the same than those that you already have in the list of power levels, still I don't know the name of the magazine.
So this is the image I was talking about, I am still trying to find out the name of the magazine, but the image and magazine are not mine, I just found them in the internet.Ultimate card maker 01:54, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
Power Levels too high
FRIEZA AND GOKU
Think about it, Frieza's power level in his first form is 530,000 right? Then when he's in his second form it grows to 1,000,000. With that growth, I believe Frieza's third form to have a power level of about 2,000,000. His 4th form however, differs from the first 3. In the video game Dragonball Z Sagas, it shows Frieza at full power with a power level of 12,000,000. How could it have gone from 2 or 3,000,000 to 120,000,000? If that was the case, Goku wouldn't have been able to beat him. Kaio-Ken only amplifys his strength by like, half his power, Kaio-Ken X2 doubles his strength [I think...] So If Goku had a power level of--Oh say 4,000,000--then Kaio-Ken X20 should equal something around 40,000,000. Okay, I'm going a little off now talking about Kaio-Ken, but the DBZ Sagas level takes places when Frieza powers up to the max, it says so in the cut scene.
Because Frieza's base power level is what you see immediately after transforming into his 4th form. Goku's at 3,000,000 after healing, Kaio-ken is probably x1.5, Kaio-ken x(N) = base power level x N, and Super Saiyan is initially x50. 3,000,000 x 10 = 30 million for Kaio-ken x10, 3,000,000 x 20 = 60 million for Kaio-ken x20, and 3,000,000 x 50 = 150 million for Super Saiyan. 150 million vs. 12 million would be a one-hit K.O. 22.214.171.124 03:18, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
On here, it says Recoome, Jeice, and Burter have power levels of over 60,000. How? Captain Ginyu estimated Goku's power level at 60,000. It just doesn't make any sense since Goku easily defeated those three. I know it was just a guess but still, Ginyu isn't THAT stupid. In DBZ Sagas, it shows Recoome with a power level of 40,000. That would make sense because of Vegeta, Krillin, and Gohan being weaker, and because of Ginyu's estimation. It also shows Jeice and Burters combined powers are 95,000. I bet that Burter is 45,000 and Jeice is 50,000 because Krillin says that B and J are about as strong as Recoome [In Kai at least].
That is my reasoning behind editing the page.
Solo28 02:35, January 6, 2011 (UTC) Solo28
- Whoever made this edit, please sign your posts, and read the manual of style before editing,. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:46, January 5, 2011 (UTC)
Second form was stated to be OVER a million. As for video games being canon......
So LSSJ Broly can fight near-evenly with SSJ2 Gogeta, then, right?
And why would it be x20 if it didn't multiply his power by 20?
Frieza didn't go from 3,000,000 to 120,000,000 all at once.
In fact, I personally have Frieza and Goku somewhat more like this during their final fight: Goku: 3,000,000 KK x10: 30,000,000 KK x20: 60,000,000 KK x20 Kamehameha: 84,000,000 Spirit Bomb: 100,000,000 Super Saiyan: 150,000,000 Frieza Form 1: 530,000 Frieza Form 2: 1,060,000 Frieza Form 3: 2,120,000 (Forms 1 - 3 only availible as reference) Frieza (Small Fraction of Power, Form 4): 4,240,000 Frieza (50% Power): 84,800,000 Frieza (50%, Winded by Spirit Bomb): 63,000,000 Frieza (100%): 120,000,000 SSJ7G 00:19, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
- Not helping, same comment as the last person, sign your posts! -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:06, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
Well, nobody knows for sure, all we have are different sourses with different power levels. Who knows which one is right. My Opinion goes kinda like this [Not going into Kaio-Kens]:
- Goku: 3,000,000
- SSJ Goku: 15,000,000
- Frieza Form 1: 530,000
- Frieza Form 2: 1,000,000
- Frieza Form 3: 2,000,000
- Frieza Form 4 [Fraction of full power]: 3,000,000
- Frieza Form 4 [1/3 Full Power]: 4,000,000
- Frieza Form 4 [1/2 Full Power]: 6,000,000
- Frieza Form 4 [Weakened by Spirit Bomb]: 5,000,000
- Frieza Form 4 [Full Power]: 12,000,000
This is just what I THINK.
Solo28 02:35, January 6, 2011 (UTC)Solo28
- We do know for sure, that is we used published documents and quotes only in articles, as per the Manual of Style. For fan-estimates you should feel free to use your user page, our blogs, or our forums. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:00, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
If the level of goku super saiyan full power is 3,000,000,000, and that of vegeta super saiyan super saiyan dai ni dankai is 1,000,000,000, the SSJ 2nd Grade as it increases the strength?
- super saiyan: base strength x50
- super saiyan 2: ssj strenght x2
- super saiyan 3: ssj2 strengh x4
and super saiyan dai ni dankai? and super saiyan dai san dankai? 126.96.36.199 19:43, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
i think this wikia shouldn't really have a list of power levels. it's just too much trouble deciding on what they are (refer to all the discussions on the internet and the various arguments)
my two cents, a page shouldn't be put up. the other articles are definitely useful but this one causes too much confusion. just my opinion
- There is actually no decision-making involved. All power levels are tagged with the official source they came from. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 06:54, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
Power Levels in the games
Aren't we going to include the power levels presented in games ? Kyoshu Sayan, Gekishin Furiza, Legend of the sayans and Sagas all had power levels for the characters...
According to the NES game Kyoshu Sayan, the powers go like this
- Movie 1 : Dead Zone -
Ginger : 1.500
Nicky : 1.200
Sansho : 1.300
Garlic Jr : 2.500
Super Garlic Jr : 3.500
- Raditz arrives on Earth -
Raditz : 1.500
- Training for the Sayans -
Pumpkin (Scarface in the english dub) : 400
Brock (Shorty in the english dub) : 500
King Kai : 4.500
- Sayans arrive on Earth -
Saibaman : 1.200
Nappa : 4.000
Vegeta : 1.8000
Great Ape Vegeta : 70.000
OBS: the great ape transformation is the power level x10, right ? but remember that vegeta power level decreased after he created the artificial moon, so, by math, we can calculate that, after Vegeta created the artificial moon, his power level went to 7.000, and going to great ape it become 70.000
According to the NES game Gekishin Furiza, the powers go like this
- Frieza Soldiers -
Cui/Kwie (don't know how it's written) : 18.000
Dodoria : 22.000
Zarbon : 23.000
Zarbon Transformed : 55.000
Appule : 6.000
OBS : despite being a notable character, Appule is just a generic enemy in the game, but always appear with the same power level.
- The Ginyu Force -
Guldo : 19.000
Recoome : 71.000
Burter : 68.000
Jeice : 64.000
Ginyu : 160.000
- Battle with Frieza -
Frieza First Form: 530.000
OBS : after the first transformation, the scouter reads until 999.999 and then breaks, implying it's even higher
however, this is only because he is the Final Boss, and it is not something to take note.
The SNES game Legend of the Sayans has power levels too, but i believe these are already in the page
- The Sayans -
Saibaman : 1.200
Nappa : 4.000
Vegeta : 18.000
Vegeta Great Ape :180.000
- The Frieza Soldiers -
Tsumuri (a Namek Warrior who helps you in the game) : 3.200
Maima (another Namek Warrior) : 3.300
Cui/Kwiu/whatever : 18.000
Dodoria : 22.000
Zarbon : 23.000
Zarbon Transformed : 30.000
- The Ginyu Force -
Guldo : 13.500
Recoome : 65.000
Burter : 62.000
Jeice : 64.000
Ginyu : 120.000
Ginyu on Goku Body : 23.000
- Frieza Battle -
Nail : 42.000
Frieza First Form : 500.000
Frieza Second Form : 1.000.000
Frieza Third Form : 1.555.555
Frieza Final Form : 3.000.000
- Vegeta Transforms in a Super Sayan -
Vegeta Super Sayan : 6.000.000
The game Dragon Ball Z Sagas is the last game i remember that have power levels
it goes like this :
- The Sayans -
Raditz : 1.200
Nappa : 4.000
Vegeta : 18.000
- The Ginyu Force -
Recoome : 40.000
Burter and Jeice (together) : 95.000
Ginyu : 120.000
Ginyu on Goku Body : 23.000
- Frieza -
Frieza last form : 12.000.000
- Goku on Yardrat -
Soba : 14.000.000
OBS : after this, for the androids, the Scouter reads until a certain number them changes to "??.???.???", not giving any number post-frieza
Power Levels taken from :
Kyoshu Sayan Power Levels : http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/nes/dbz1/enemies.shtml
Gekishin Frieza power levels: http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/nes/dbz2/enemies.shtml
Legend of the Sayans power levels : http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/snes/dbzlotss/bosses.shtml
Legend of the sayans (vegeta great ape power level) : http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588289-dragon-ball-z-chou-saiya-densetsu/faqs/7048
Sagas Power level : http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/925169-dragon-ball-z-sagas/faqs/36036
I don't remember about legends of the sayans and never played Sagas, but i played gekishin furiza and kyoshu sayan and i'm sure these power levels really were in the game, and weren't made up by the site
Oh, i know i have to sign posts, but i don't have and don't want an account here, and didn't feel like it was necessary create one just to make a single post... —This unsigned comment was made by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) Please sign your posts with ~~~~ next time!
- why haven't the power levels from v-jump been added? Cooler's henchman were listed. Even if it's not offcial, its still pretty damn close to it, and should be added: Sauzer: 170,000 – Neiz: 163,000 – Dore: 185,000
- I have aslo seen the image here:
Can we try to find a source for it? I've heard its from v-jump, but...
184.108.40.206 00:00, August 3, 2011 (UTC)
100% Frieza's power level.
Shouldn't Frieza's power level from Sagas be removed. It's silly to have 100% Frieza go from the correct 120,000,000 from the daizenshuu to the incorrect (and probably misinterpreted) 12,000,000 shown in Sagas. I think only the more accurate information should be provided when there are two different sources on one topic.- DBZ Guru 11:30, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
- It's not less accurate, it's a fact that in the game he has that power level. The point of an encyclopedia is not to pick and show only our favorite point of view, but rather to provide precise and comprehensive summaries of all available information. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:11, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
More Power Levels
Here: http://dragonballbp.web.fc2.com/archives/officialbp.html 21:10, February 1, 2012 (UTC)
so, i see the only power levels from video games that are going to be here are those from the SNES RPG ? but why ? the Kanzentai website, and even here in this talk page, we see that they gave new power levels (for Garlic Jr, Annin and even the illusion sayans), but no one adds them
and the page being blocked doesn't help, although i see why it is. 220.127.116.11 20:19, March 10, 2012 (UTC) without account
- We also have power levels from the Nintendo Gamecube title "Dragon Ball Z: Sagas". Any official source is acceptable, but fan sites like Kanzentai are not reliable. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:30, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
V-Jump Power Level Scans. Legit?
About V-Jump Power Levels...
First let me post these images:
Gogeta's V-Jump Scan: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/337/462pxgogetabpvjump.jpg/
Broly/Cooler's V-Jump Scan: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/458pxv2.jpg/
Looks legit, right?
Now let me present this....
|Coola's Battle Power|
|Going along with the (now confirmed) rumors about their being official battle powers for the members of Coola's Armored Squad, there have also been rumblings about battle powers for Coola's two forms from DragonBall Z movie 5. Supposedly, in his regular form Coola has a battle power of 140 million (already stronger than Freeza at full power), while in his transformed state he's a whopping 470 million. Many contradictory sources for this have been given: the same issue of Weekly Jump that contained the Armored Squad info, the daizenshuu, or V-Jump (which seems to be becoming some mythic source for extra battle powers). The daizenshuu definitely don't have any such numbers, and thanks to the images of the Weekly Jump issue with the Armored Squad Battle Powers provided to us by the alert Chinese DragonBall fanQueller, we see that this Jump issue actually refers to Coola's power in his transformed state as being "immeasurable".
 Now, the battle power list that was featured in Weekly Jump midway through the Saiyan arc likewise described Vegeta's battle power as "immeasurable", despite the series itself later specifying it, so the fact that this Weekly Jump issue says the same thing about Coola's final form doesn't necessarily mean that form's battle power wasn't specified in some later source. But if such a thing was said in V-Jump, we've been unable to find any information on what issue, and since the other two supposed sources for these battle power numbers are a bust, we assume the same goes for V-Jump too. This claim about Coola's battle power used to be featured on the Japanese Wikipdia page for DragonBall Z movie 5, but has since been taken down. Of course, anyone can potentially take correct information down from Wikipedia, the same way anyone can potentially insert errors, so this doesn't really prove anything either. But combined with the demonstrably incorrect claims about these battle power numbers' source, it's most likely safe to assume that this is another bogus rumor.
So... Are those scans legit or not? Pizzaguylol 10:06, June 4, 2012 (UTC)
- They certainly look legit from the official publication. Unfortunately that fan site can't be used, since a random fan's claims alone have no credibility. The Manual of Style expands upon what can and can't be used as a source for an encyclopedic website. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:41, June 5, 2012 (UTC)
The Supreme Kai's Power Levels
In the episode Energy Drain, Supreme Kai states that each of the 5 Supreme Kai's were 1000X stronger than Frieza. Should this be added into the list, as either just stating "1000X stronger than Frieza. Stated by Supreme Kai"? Ssj2gohan 13:47, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
- Yah, that sounds like a good quote. Stating "1000 times stronger than Frieza" is better than calculating the number. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:51, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I just watched the clip of the episode. I'm not sure if it was a translation error or some other mistake, but he said there were 5 Grand Kais were 1000X more powerful than Frieza. Also, that doesn't seem to add up. Because I also just realized as I type this, that would mean Eastern Supreme Kai has a powerful level of 120 billion, making him way stronger than even Super Gogeta. So why would he have needed the help of Goku, Gohan, or Vegeta to defeat Fat Buu? Deus Gladiorum (talk) 01:51, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
- That depends on how powered up Frieza was when they referred to this. Frieza's 100% Full Power mode was only ever used before his death when he was with his family. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:05, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
- Great point, hadn't thought about that. However, there's still two other issues. Supreme Kai actually says in the episode, at least in the funimation dub, "There were five Grand Kais at the time, each one a thousand times more powerful [...]". He says Grand Kais, not Supreme Kais. I'm almost positive that's a typo, but that's not my call since we can't assume. There's also the issue of chronological placement. This occured eons ago, way before even Bardock. So should we put the Supreme (or Grand) power listings into the pre-Dragonball era? I'm guessing so. Deus Gladiorum (talk) 02:16, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
Pre-DB is a good call, they certainly weren't all around in DBZ. As for the wording, the dubs tend to mix up the Kai titles and be generally inconsistent. I would suggest someone double-checks the other English dub, then the manga, and if it's not there, then someone familiar with the Japanese version can tell us if those are more consistent and check those. I agree that it was probably a dubbing mistake since Buu absorbed the Supreme Kais. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:44, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
I think the statement that each were 1000 times more powerful than Frieza was referring to Frieza's first form. That will make those Kais approximately 530,000 x 1000 = 530,000,000. Considering 120,000,000 Frieza final form was absolutely getting demolished by SSJ Goku in 150,000,000. It makes sense that having 5 Kais who had 530,000,000 would not see Frieza as a threat as anyone of them probably can one shot Frieza at full strength at that time. It also puts them at the level between SSJ 1 and SSJ 2 hence fit the bill that Supreme Kai would be astonished that mortals/Saiyans in SSJ 2 was stronger than the Kais who were gods themselves.YinyangElementofduality (talk) 12:31, November 27, 2016 (UTC)
Should Garlic jr., Nicky, Sansho, and Ginger be with the movie power levels rather then with the saiyan saga? (18.104.22.168 08:22, August 16, 2012 (UTC))
- It depends on when it was said, or when it was referring to if not present.. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:44, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
What about the rpg power levels listed below from the Anime Adventure Game, should they be added to the list of power levels since they are licensed by funimation? (22.214.171.124 23:56, August 16, 2012 (UTC))
RPG Power levelsSince this wiki is posting video game power levels then in the rpg Dragon Ball Z The Anime Adventure Game which is licenced by funimation production inc, it gives a few power levels (all are reported as saiyan saga):
Vegeta Great Ape 75,000
Master Roshi 350
Typical Saiyans 400-660
King Kai 3500
King Yemma 2600
Goz & Mez 210
Princess Snake 900
Karma Sen (Original to the game) 530
Princess Jade (Original to the game) 450
Kirin (original to the game) 630
Ska-goh (original to the game) 610
There is also a follow up rpg book Dragon Ball Z Book 2: The Frieza Saga: Intergalactic Space Pirates Threaten the Dragonball Z Universe! ,also is licenced by funimationproduction inc. The power levels are (all power levels are in the Namek/ Frieza Saga):
Super Saiyan Goku 15,000,000
Piccolo (Post Nail) 800,000
Piccolo (Fused with Nail)- 1,200,000
Frieza 1st form 500,000
Frieza 2nd form 1,000,000
Frieza 3rd form 3,000,000
Frieza final form 12,000,000
Zarbon monster form 46,000
Frieza's Henchmen 1000-4000
Zaacro & Raiti 500
Space kids (these are the children from Bun's planet) 10
Namek Elders 1000
Namek Warriors 1000-4000
Dr. Brief 12
Goku 300,000(281frieza7899 (talk) 01:43, August 15, 2012 (UTC).)
Vegeta Fighting Frieza 1st form
In Dragon Ball Z Episode 77 The Fusion, while Vegeta is Fighting Frieza in his first form Krillin replies by saying "Vegeta is defferently alot stronger but Frieza doesn't seem to care" plus he was able to hold his own against frieza's clash, so should their be a added power level of Vegeta in the Frieza Saga that reads something like Vegeta- over 530,000 (281frieza7899 (talk) 04:40, September 8, 2012 (UTC))
- The scouter referenced in the source at the far right on the same line. It is a video game, so the scouter is probably an ability. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:27, February 4, 2013 (UTC)
The date for V-Jump #1 under the "other source" section for certain power levels is incorrectly marked as 1991. The first issue came out December 12 1990 according to this page. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Shonen_Jump
126.96.36.199 17:26, February 25, 2013 (UTC)Laurcus
Daiz power levels...are they accurate?
The Daiz gets alot of ridicule from DBZ fans for their lack of accuracy. The story is that they were never written by AT himself, but from his staff, and that he approved of them. If he never wrote them himself, why should we believe those power levels are accurate? Just 'cause he approved of them? And based on the anime, most famously the Goku vs Frieza battle, had a lot of inconsistencies that reflect from the Daiz. I'll use Frieza as a famous example. Some guy on another forum already did the math for me, so I'll use his anaylsis since it's the same work I was going to do.
"The situation with Goku using Kaioken x20.
In the Daizenshuu's it's stated that Goku's base form (without usage of Kaioken) during the fight with Frieza was 3 million. Frieza, at the point when Goku used KKx20, was using 50% of his power, which according to the Dai's equals a PL of 60 million.
Anyways, Kaioken multiplies your powerlevel by a certain multiplier. During the fight with Frieza, Goku utilized a Kaioken 20x his own power. A quick calculation tells us the following about Goku's PL while using KKx20.
3 million (base power) x 20 = 60 million.
So, this way, Goku should be able to (temporarily) fight Frieza on equal terms. But, furthermore, Goku also used a massive Kamehameha on top of it. Now the Kamehameha, as we learned in the fight with Raditz, is an attack with amplifying properties. This means that Goku can channel all his energy towards a single exit point in his body, the hands in this case, and release the energy from there. This results in a powerblast, weilding even more power than the actual user. I'll give you an example from the fight with Raditz:
Goku's PL without weighted clothing: 416
Goku's Kamehameha: 924
924/416 = 2,2x.
This means that by early DBZ standards, Goku's Kamehameha once fully charged was over twice as strong as his own, physical maximum. Now if we apply this same calculation to Goku's powerlevel against Frieza, we get this:
60 million (Goku's base + KK x20) x 2,2 = 132 million.
Now here's the first issue, when Goku launched that blast, with a powerlevel far beyond the 100 million barrier, Frieza was able to block it, with one arm no less. And that's only using early DBZ standards, chances are that Goku developed his Kamehameha even further by the time he touched down on Namek...
Now, the Daiz's state that Frieza's PL half powered is 60 million, and a being with a 60 million PL cannot stop a blast that strong with just one arm. NO WAY.
So this means that either Goku's PL was pushed way too high, or Frieza's was too low. Either way, it doesn't appear right.
Super Saiyan Goku vs. 100% Frieza.
This is another thing that I can't really grasp. According to the Daizenshuu's, SSJ Goku's PL is 150 million, and Frieza's full power maxes out at 120 million. This is a gap of 30 million, which is MASSIVE.
However, Frieza appeared to be doing way too good for such a huge gap. Now yes, you could say that Goku held back, was toying around and didn't want to kill Frieza, and some of that may be true, but I can also recall a segment in the story where Frieza blatantly overpowered a huge Kamehameha from Goku. And to clarify, I looked this sequence up in the manga yesterday, and during that struggle, Goku was giving it his all, but couldn't prevent losing that struggle..
So was 100% Frieza really that much weaker than SSJ Goku, no, I doubt that to be true. I could accept the 120 million powerlevel for Frieza to sterm from the finishing moments of the battle, as he was stated to be weakening. The torque on his body simply became too much and he started to wear off. That could explain a 30 million gap in strength but otherwise, they appeared to be much better matched to me.
It's general consensus that Goku's increase in strength when transformed into a Super Saiyan equals 50 times.
Base powerlevel: 3 million
Super Saiyan: 150 million
150/3 = 50x (powerlevels taken from Daizenshuu).
However, is this true? I'm inclined to believe otherwise. Allow me to explain:
Goku's PL at the start of the fight with Frieza is listed at 3 million. As a Super Saiyan, it is 150 million, which gives the infamous 50x increase. However, this is assuming that Goku's base form was still at 3 million at the point of his transformation.
Now, when you take into consideration that Goku had endured a thorough beating from Frieza, used Kaioken x20 (which to Goku's own admission, weakened him) and also launched a Spirit Bomb, that doesn't seem to hold up. It's not logical for Goku to still be at 3 million after he had to endure all that, he even stated he was losing strength. So I for one would not be surprised if Goku's PL dropped several hundreds k, or maybe even a million after all that.
So it could be either one of these options:
*Goku's Super Saiyan was not 150 million, but (much) less.
*Goku's Super Saiyan was 150 million, but his base power was lower than 3 million (which seems no more than logical).
The latter option means that the boost from base to Super Saiyan, at least in Goku's case on Namek, was even more than 50 times."
With this in mind, Frieza at 120 million would be unrealistic. If Goku is at 3 million (according to the Daiz), which seems reasonable enough, then Frieza shouldn't be too far from that as they fought rather equally. His full power is at least 145 million according to my own estimates, 120 million as the Daiz list him at, is not very plausible, IMO. No way he could have fought Super Saiyan Goku that well if he were at 120 million. Frieza had to be 145 mil or better to put up that kind of fight against 150 mil Goku.
I want to hear everybody's thoughts to this. Sorry for the essay but there are a lot of inconsistencies that need to be addressed. I believe there is no way the power levels in the Daiz are accurate. If you believe that they are, I would like to hear a logical explanation other than "they are published so they're official" for your argument as to why you believe they are accurate and give me some examples to support your argument. • • 00:05, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
- Because we are an encyclopedic site, we use official sources. Your research and ideas are impressive, but unfortunately they are fan work. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:12, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Not really what I was looking for. I understand there an official source, but does that make them BELIEVABLE? No im pretty sure the Daizenshu was written by people associated with AT and not him himself, there are alot of errors in it actually, most DBZ fans are acknowledging this now and you barely see the DAIZ bought up in debates anymore in DBZ forums etc. With that said, despite being official, it doesnt answer the logical perspective of Frieza putting an even fight with SSJ Goku. Especially earlier on, with the KKx20, which is 60 mil and Frieza at 50% supposedly being 60 mil too, there's no way he could've blocked that attack with just one hand. As far as I know Toriyama himself was barely involved in the production of the Daizenshuu's. It was his staff, and I believe Toei also helped a hand. Anyways, I usually trust the Daiz's, unless either manga or common sense disproves them. Both of those being the case here. Anyone else have any input on this? • • 02:19, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
- Daizenshuu's levels agree with Frieza putting up an even fight, since at Goku's very peak he just had an extra 25% power over Frieza. Add in Frieza's experience fighting at that level, plus Goku's worn out state from earlier in the fight, low intelligence, unfamiliarity with enemies at Frieza's level, and unwillingness to fight hard enough to destroy the planet and population (until the end when he overcame Frieza), and it all makes sense. Both the manga and common sense agree with the Dizenshuu here, but you as a fan have the right to interpret the events of the series however you please. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:29, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Okay that makes a bit sense. But still, I dont think Frieza ever had to fight at his full power before. I don't think anyone even pushed him this far as much as SSJ Goku did. Not only that, whose to say Freiza wasnt also battle worn as well? If we assume Goku wasn't at his best because of the fight prior to transforming, then we also have to give Freeza credit due to his prior fights and the Genki-Dama. I'm in the belief that his real power level might've actually been 145 million, but due to his injuries and prior battle against SSJ Goku before he powered up, it may have gotten to only 120 million or it was 120 million at the point where he maxed out and started losing power, and that's the number they ended up going with. Anyways. Despite these being official, is there ever an interview where Akira himself confirms that all these power levels in the Daiz are accurate? I often hear about how Akira "approved" of these power levels but I have yet to see proof. I would like to see a source with my own two eyes if anyone's got one. • • 02:52, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
I asked about this a while ago. 10xKamehameha has a point. There was only a small difference between their power. Not enough to fight evenly but def enough to give him some trouble. Putting him at 145 mil would be way to close, even for Frieza. It's also a question of whether Goku was fighting at his maximum power.
But,they were both weakened, Frieza by genki dama and Goku by 20fold kaioken.So,i think that,during their fight
Just because Goku was stated to be '150,000,000' doesn't mean that he was fighting at that level. I'm of the opinion that Goku held back somewhat against Frieza, buying time for Gohan to escape. And Akira Toriyama said that the Daizenshuu was accurate up until the Cell saga. So Frieza's power level was 120 million.
03:01, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
"And Akira Toriyama said that the Daizenshuu was accurate up until the Cell saga. So Frieza's power level was 120 million."
Where did AT say that?
- "This Daizenshuu, the 7th and final one, is a huge Dragon Ball encyclopedia. I think the staff who make these books always have a rough time of it, but this one looked even more hellish than usual. They really did a great job. I am ridiculously forgetful, so despite being the author there is lots of stuff even I do not know anymore. It was often quite a nuisance, and I think having this encyclopedia around when the series was still running would have really helped me out. Darn it all. Anyway, my thanks to the staff, and to all Dragon Ball fan."
- — Akira Toriyama, Daizenshuu 7, 1996
- He also has interviews in almost every volume, plus he writes the introduction to a few. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:49, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
He doesn´t say anything about the powerlevels in the interview. I think he meant the basic information on the characters. 150,000,000 don´t make much sense at that point of the story.--As90 (talk) 15:03, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
Attack of the saiyans and calculations
In the game Kyoshu Saiyan Vegeta Great Ape is given a power level of 70.000, could someone include it here ?
Also, The Kaioken values are calculated through math using the ones given in official sources (in goku's case, the daizenshuu), so Vegeta's power level should too. It is mentioned Vegeta's power level decreased after he created the artificial moon, so, by math, we can calculate that after Vegeta created the artificial moon, his power level went to 7.000, and going to great ape it become 70.000 .
Anyway, should the levels for Attack of the Saiyans be included ? not the ones for what if stories (like Boss Rabit's, which represents a what if story about his return and not the one he had on the series), but the ones which represent actual battles from the anime. Well, you can allways use these what ifs power levels to calculate the ones in the series: Boss Rabitt mentions he returned much stronger than before and has a power level of 121, so you can conclude he had less than 121 in his initial appearance.
Piccolo Jr. at Budokai Tenkaichi: 292
I believe shu machine and mai machine also are given power levels.
as a last note, Umigame's (turtle) power level is wrong: it is listed as ".001", when its actually "0.001" 188.8.131.52 07:26, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
Garlic Jr., Trunks, and Android Saga Power Levels
Dragon Ball Z The Garlic Jr., Trunks, and Android sagas. Can anyone save humanity from the menace of the androids. This RPG book contains the following power levels
Garlic Jr. Saga
Garlic Jr. 1,500,000
SS Trunks- 17,500,000
Mecha Frieza- 14,000,000
King Cold- 15,000,000
SS Goku- 20,000,000
SS Vegeta- 22,0000,000
Android 19- 10,000,000
Android 20 (Dr. Gero)- 10,000,000
Android 17- 30,000,000
Android 18- 30,000,000
Android 16- 30,000,000
(184.108.40.206 20:34, June 5, 2013 (UTC)).
DBZ Dragon Box Vegeta and Freeza Battle Powers
In the Dragon Ball Z DRagon Box Volume 2 Booklet, it gives two power levels of Vegeta and Freeza. On page 28 it reads that the energy strike (Final Clash) used against ReaCoom had a battle power of 20,000. On page 41 during a discription of Freeza's power it says his battle power in his final form is 100,000,000.
I think I've found the some power levelsIt looks like I've found some to put on. They look real enough. Can you take a look at them 10X to see if they're official? Then put them on this page. Not the talk page mind you.User:Destroy Us All| 15:35, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
- This image is already posted here, higher up on the talk page. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:47, July 23, 2013 (UTC)
It's false - User:Destroy Us All| 09:27, July 24, 2013 (UTC)22:51, July 23, 2013 (UTC) Funny thing is that even though it's false (I want to know how you believe it's false) it states that the kili's levels are 1 million times weaker then the scouter levels. Interesting fact from this.--
I think we should make a separate list to videogame only power levels. Because they are always incorrect. Budokai 3 said that Gogeta's PL is 2,500 mil, but Battle Taikan Kamehameha says that Omega Shenron's PL is 1,900 mil, and that couldn't be. Also, Paopao in Attack of the Saiyans has a PL of 1,200 and Krillin defeats her easily, but that's the same power as Raditz that Goku and Piccolo struggled to kill.
What do you guys think?22:09, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Seems confusing. The sources are very clearly listed here, given much more prominence than a source on a regular article. What is the benefit of separating sources on different articles? If you do not want people getting confused, perhaps lightly color coding the cells would be suitable. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:43, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
No, not on different articles, I meant different sections.01:00, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
Trading Card Game
Ive been searching for a while, and I finally found the full list of cards for the old Dragon Ball Z Trading Card Game, every character card had a battle power on it, so they all need to be added.Neffyarious (talk) 06:56, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think adding power levels coming from media that use their own scale will be useful. It'll add more confusion than help. You already added Dragon Ball Z: The Anime Adventure Game, which don't even use the power levels stated in the manga/anime. I didn't add the Attack of the Saiyans power levels because of this. 07:18, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
This page is the list of power levels, so it is a list of all power levels that have ever been officialy stated, even if they have a different scale, I dont see why it cannot be added, after all it's already confuding enough with video games having different power levels to the manga/anime.Neffyarious (talk) 07:22, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with Jean. The power levels there are meant as to be close (maybe the same order of magnitude) to the actual levels, but are ultimately just to make a balanced card game. It further complicates the issue by giving many power levels per form. Are those supposed to be powered up? Would something like Kaio-ken or being extremely mad make the real power level, while the cards are just base powers? It is unclear. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:26, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
Bottom (one above zero) is basic power, top is maximum that the card can go. Perhaps we should split this page into a bunch of seperate pages, like: List of Manga power levels, List of Video game powers levels, and List of card game power levels.Neffyarious (talk) 07:37, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
- Source needed please for the fact that what you just said refers to the intention of the card game developers, and that they were not designed to make a balanced card game? It does not make sense splitting up the article (which ends up being the same as creating a new article to house the card game levels only), since that is just a copy of the link you sent. If readers want to see the stats of trading cards, they can use a trading card site. If they want to see all collected power levels stated in the manga and anime, that's impossible without a compilation site like ours. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:11, September 15, 2013 (UTC)
- Seems fine to me. Good compromise (although suggesting it on talk first would have been better). -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 18:20, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
- Also I wouldn't call the game balanced - Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) has a power of 18,000 in the game while Max Power Frieza (Frieza Saga) has 900,000. Not really very close. If you look at all of the powers they seem to match up with the anime quite well until you get to the Trunks Saga anyway.Neffyarious (talk) 12:10, September 22, 2013 (UTC)
- I uploaded a pic of the card. The "power up 3 stages" part means to increase the power level three up.Neffyarious (talk) 07:16, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
I know the rules, I thought you meant your had a card that related game power levels to actual power levels. This doesn't really help us make any decisions : / -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:36, October 9, 2013 (UTC)
Power levels being "balanced" - here is evidence against it, based on two cards released in the Baby set.
- Mutant Robot - has a power of 1,500 at min and 3,000 at max - realistic for a Machine Mutant
- Baby Gohan - has a power of 1,025,000 at min and 4,025,000 at max - far far higher than the Mutant Robot who was released in the same set.
- Not what I would call balanced.
Going by this, if we keep power levels that are unrealistic from video game: such as Super Saiyan Vegeta having 6,000,000 - then the card game should be fine.Neffyarious (talk) 16:06, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
- Having them unbalanced does not mean they are based on reality. It only works for sure the other way around. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:13, October 10, 2013 (UTC)
SSj Goku= 3000 Kilis
Then SSj2 Goku=6000 Kilis (SSj2 is twice as strong as SSj)
SSj3 Goku=24,000 Kilis (SSj3 4x as strong as SSJ2)
SSj2 Majin Vegeta=6000 Kilis (Goku said he and Vegeta fought equally)
Perfect Cell= Over 4000 Kilis (Daizenshuu, Dragon Box booklet, and Goku said Dabura is as strong as Cell)
Power Levels By Logic
During the fight between Vegeta and 1st form Frieza, the two shown to be fighting equally, moreover when they struggle with eachother Frieza's scouter gets a reading of Vegeta's (now powered-up) power level and he can't believe the reading, till the scouter explodes. Considering the fact that Frieza himself has a PL of 530,000 in his first form, it'll should hint that Vegeta may have passed it or was around that level, but due the fact that Frieza says he sees how powerful Vegeta had became he agrees to the latter's demand of transforming - a possible hint for placing Vegeta as "Over 530,000" while confronting Frieza.
On Cooler's Revenge, Cooler's 5th form is stated on V-Jump to be at a power level of 470,000,000, which makes Super Saiyan Goku "over 470,000,000" since he effortlessly beats him, suggesting that Goku on his normal state (after getting a Zenkai from the Sanzu bean Gohan gave him) would be at least "over 9,400,000" (multiplying it by 50 times will be only equal to Cooler's 5th form PL)...DXRD620 (talk) 21:02, December 6, 2013 (UTC)
- That may be the case, but we can only list levels that specifically quoted in a licensed, published source. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:05, December 7, 2013 (UTC)
That's not what always done here, the best example is the base Goku's power level against Yakon given here alongside others like it that were posted here because they're logical accurate (basic mathmatics).DXRD620 (talk) 10:24, December 11, 2013 (UTC)
- This one was added recently (base Goku's power level against Yakon). I wanted an admin's opinion on this. About the "over xxx" thing, someone defeating an opponent doesn't mean he has a power level above as the technique used also plays a major role. As shown with the "Battle againt Raditz" power levels, Piccolo's power level is higher when he uses the Special Beam Cannon. Base form Frieza's power level is 530,000, but nothing indicates he fought Vegeta at his 530,000 max. 10:42, December 11, 2013 (UTC)
Goku's power level.
Isn't it inconsistent that Goku's power level in the Tien Shinhan saga is less than that of General Silver and Mercenary Tao both of whom he already defeated? Prassy90 (talk) 07:30, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
The whole list is really a mess. Since it has Base Goku in BOTG at 120 million which would make SSJ Goku stronger than Super Gogeta, Super Vegito (who isn't even listed), Bills, and Whiss. Which we all know is completeley wrong. Im using the SSJ Multiplyers SS=BaseX50 SS2=SSX2 SS3=SS2X4 SS4=SS3X10 SSG=SS4X20. -UltimateSSJ1-
Some of the power levels don´t make sense at all. For example Pilaw having 40, whilst Goku having 10. There is no way this can be right. Shouldn´t trivia be added that the height of the power levels has logical issues?As90 (talk) 15:10, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
- the power levels are from diffrent sources that uses diffrent power levels 15:50, March 4, 2014 (UTC)
- Then, if the calculation is different, wouldn´t it be better to use seperate charts for each source?As90 (talk) 16:58, March 5, 2014 (UTC)
Correcting the disorganized and non-canon sourced mess
I did the formatting for the original table on this page way back in 2008 (yeah, nearly 6 years ago). I've popped in once in a while to make edits, but haven't been on for a few years. I've had some time recently, so I've started watching the unedited shows again (7th or 8th time through), but this time turned on the subtitles and read through the show. Just finished watching Dragon Ball with subtitles and I have to say, it's way better subbed than dubbed, there's a lot more humor there and it's way more intense. I started on Dragon Ball Z yesterday with the new Funimation Bluray release. It looks fantastic, though I wish the Ocean Dub music was there. I'm listening to the Japanese music and reading the subs for this go-around.
At any rate, I went to look something up on here, the Dragon Ball Wikia, to figure something out. I hopped on this particular page to check out how it was doing. Unfortunately, I found a huge mess. The formatting is mostly the same, but there's a ton of unsourced and non-canon material on here. There's also a lot of ridiculous info, like the power level of Mai, Shu, and Emperor Pilaf, and a ton of sources from various video game series. None of these things are canon. Someone even sourced a kids toy as a reference.
Aside from the content that just doesn't make sense or isn't canon, there are too many seemingly legit power levels that are generically sourced as "Daizenshuu 7", without a page number, or "Movie Pamphlet", which wouldn't be cannon anyway. I realise now that I left that can of worms open by making this thing too lax, but I can't see the page looking like this and feel right.
I propose two separate sections or pages: List of Power Levels - with properly sourced info from the anime and manga - no outside sources that Toriyama didn't identify as canon (ie. video games, pamphlets, random blogs, and someones fan calculations). List of Non-Canon Power Levels - with all the random sources that end up contradicting each other, but at least have some tangible, provable source.
I also propose only allowing registered users to edit this page, as this is a huge target for spam and large, unwarranted changes (See history). With registered users, this is at least a bit more manageable.
I'm down for reformatting the table if a moderator gives the go-ahead. I just quickly threw this together:
Edit: Added more to the table
- Please read the current Manual of Style for canonocity information as applicable to this site. TLDR: this is a Dragon Ball site that lists official Dragon Ball information, not a manga-only biased site that omits other licensed sources. We do not discount the validity of the manga at all, which is why the table lists the source. If readers wish to ignore non-manga, that is extremely easy with the current format. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:30, September 9, 2014 (UTC)
- I'm aware, I wrote the original table with those columns. I'm not saying omit information from sources because they go against the manga, but reformat the page so the information from non-canon sources, like video games, card games, and the like, are not positioned inside the same form as the manga, anime or something considered canon by Toriyama. (edit, I think that kind of is what's said in the Manual of Style you mentioned.)
- In it's current form, it just looks like a huge mess. There's 4 times the info added since I formatted it way back, now it's too cramped. I'd just like some thoughts on reformatting the table so it looks more organized, rather than just doing it and getting people pissed off. One thing I would remove is "Edited Anime Source" and "Saga" columnns. I put those on there originally, but they really only take up space. Also, re-positioning "Power Level" to after the character looks cleaner. Contributions from Meleniumshane90 ThatsItGuys 02:54, September 9, 2014 (UTC)
When you say "non-canon", you are proposing going against the Manual of Style. Please adhere to it at all times when editing. We can do it either chronological or by source, and chronological makes more sense. Doing it by source would be so much worse; we would have 5 sections for every early saga. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:10, September 9, 2014 (UTC)
Garlic Jr Saga
Post-Frieza Power Levels Highly Inflated: Usable Metrics to More Accurately Gauge Them
Post-Frieza Power Levels Highly Inflated: Usable Metric to More Accurately Gauge Them
Let's face it, the power level list is messy and incongrous, but the post-Frieza power levels are extremely inflated for no justifiable reason, starting with Mecha Frieza and moving on to King Cold and all the rest. The Android saga power levels in the hundreds of millions is beyond ridiculous.
Cell is able to defeat #17 after absorbing the population of South City. Unless South City's population is in ~100 million people (which would be insane) these power levels are extremely out-of-whack. We can use the population of South City to determine a much more realistic power regime. 6 PL (average person) x 5,000,000 people (reasonable large city pop) = 30,000,000 PL boost.
Frieza was stronger than before, and maybe stronger than SSJ Goku, but not by much. Maybe 16,000,000. Why would Goku suddenly jump from a Toriyama stated 15,000,000 to 150,000,000 in such a short time period? Makes zero sense, even with zenkai.
So Android-saga SSJ Goku clocks in around 20,000,000. #19 I have around 18,000,000, Gero at 19-20,000,000. SSJ Vegeta a little higher than that at ~ 22,000,000. #17 & #18 at around the high twenties. Imperfect Cell would be in the low 20s, so when he absorbed the city population (+30 mil PL) the increase would still make sense, and let him handle 17+18 together.
I don't have things getting into the hundreds of millions until Super Perfect Cell and the Buu Saga. No billions until GT.
The arbitrary increase in power levels is absurd.
Doesn't Daizenshuu put Frieza and SSJ Goku at 120,000,000 and 150,000,000 respectively? I mean, according to this list of course.
Krillin's Namek Saga Power Level is actually 13,000
Krillin's Namek Saga Power Level should be 13,000 instead of 14,000, as shown in Daizenshuu 7 - http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/ 14,000 was Namek Saga Gohan.
EDIT: Looks like someone corrected it, thank you!
Akira Toriyama never said anything about Golden Frieza's powerlevel....
Guess I better say it here to.
No again you're assuming that the changes were made because of my opinion on canon when it wasnt. Aside from the fabricated info, I took out the video game power levels also because that was where most of the problems were.
It has nothing to do with canon. There's power levels that were made up, said to be from a certain game but actually isnt at all and is there as a false source just so someone didnt remove it thinking it to be genuine.
It's like if I were to put Bojack, power level 1,000,000,000 source, Scouter Battle blah blah, nobodies really played that game so nobody would know it to be wrong so it wouldnt be taken off and it'd just stay on there.
Theres power levels that were sourced but were given to different characters by mistake, power levels sourced as being from a from a certain game but is actually from another game entirely. One of the video games already has the power levels from the game listed on that page.
It was about fixing the errors and mistakes, cleaning up the page and making it more reader friendly and accurate. So I thought I'd do it, I spent 3 hours on that and in a couple of minutes you've just undone it and put all the errors and mistakes back in and nobody will notice and so it'll just end up being left like it again.-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:26, September 6, 2015 (UTC)
Goku's power level on Namek being 85,000 as estimated by Ginyu, no source given. No surprise either because that's another mistake because he said 60,000. So that one was made up even when there was a proper number given in the manga. Thats just another mistake I spotted now.
- Again I agree on the games. The games use a different scale. For example, Attack of the Saiyans has a boss named Paopao. Her power level is 1250, on Raditz's level, but she is fought between the King Piccolo and Piccolo Jr saga. There's no way Krillin could defeat someone on Raditz's level in those saga. we should make a main table for manga/anime/guidebooks power levels, and another for video games, since they usually have different scales. 22:57, September 6, 2015 (UTC)
Oh but wait there's more apparently King Cold is stronger than Frieza because both Tien and Piccolo STATED that in chapter 330, well no, I have the manga in my hand and that is never said and is more fabricated info found on the page.-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:02, September 6, 2015 (UTC)
The video game power levels DEFINITLEY shouldn't be put on there. When I saw this list yesterday it was better organised but now someone has changed it and....what's with all the wrong information on it? There's 3 listing for Reccome, Burter, Jeice...why?
Why is there a manga source, anime source, edited source, other source? It makes the table to long and I have to scroll it over to see, you only need to just have source and then say what it was.
This page is a cluster f*ck. Just put the video power levels on the page for said video game under a power level heading, simple.
Signed by Zax90 (I don't know how you do this properly)
Ok so I noticed there was a power level page for Battle of Z so I made a few for Carddass, Scouter Battle and one for Various one's (no need to make for more pages) and I put a section beneath the main power level table called Video Game power levels and then linked to the separate pages.
I think it looks better this way as it, it's made it more neat and now we don't have half a dozen listings for the same character which was something 10x Kamehameha also said here
"It further complicates the issue by giving many power levels per form."
Signed by Zax90 (I don't know how you do this properly)
You have to use 4 of this squiggly lines for a signature ~
Anyway yeah this seems fair now right? Now it's free of mistakes and the video game power levels just have their own page which was linked on this one.
This was what Neffaryious said 2 years ago
"Perhaps we should split this page into a bunch of seperate pages, like: List of Manga power levels, List of Video game powers levels, and List of card game power levels"
Which is a good idea and I dont know why it took so long to do. There will probably be more games in the future with power levels and so it really could do with it's own list.-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 15:44, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
- If you were only taking out power levels from video games that were not actually in the video game and power levels from quotes that don't exist, that would be helpful. But you're taking some fake entries and using it to justify removing everything from that media. We wouldn't delete all the manga power levels because people added fake ones, and that is exactly what you're suggesting, which is obviously the wrong thing to do. Feel free to remove fake information, but do not remove information from entire sources just because you don't feel like verifying which are real and which are fake. The scales are sometimes (not always!) different, but that's why we have the source right next to the info: the readers aren't idiots and don't need half the content deleted to understand how a source works. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 20:56, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
Exactly did you even look at the page before undoing it again? Someone made a bunch of pages that listed the power levels from the video games along with the game it's from and put links to all these pages on the power level page.
The information is still there, it just has it's own page now so the rest of the power levels are from everything else. So what's the problem?-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:17, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
Hey what gives? You said you didn't wanna get rid of the video game power levels so I made pages just for them and put a link on the main page to them. There's all other comments above from yourself, another admin and other users about how it's confusing, contradicting. They're still there just not on this table which looked awful.
See I made three pages like this List of power levels in Carddass. All the Carddass power levels that were on this page before I put on that page. I did a table for it and everything. There might be more games in the future that have power levels do we really need 5 different power levels for Recoome and Appule?Zax90 (talk) 21:37, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
You mention having a consensus but there's a few who've already brought up this problem. Meleniumshane90 had a similar idea and made his own table which looked far better than what we have now and that was shot down (though that was a manga/anime only list).
One of the admins named Neffyarious said "Perhaps we should split this page into a bunch of seperate pages, like: List of Manga power levels, List of Video game powers levels, and List of card game power levels."
Sandubear said this "I think we should make a separate list to videogame only power levels. Because they are always incorrect."
Ilovefoxes said "Seriously, this page need some cleaning. ◾ A better table layout, easier to read. I will look forward this ◾ Separate Manga / Guides / Anime / Movies and Specials / Videogames sections. It's very frustating and confusing to read something "334 in manga page X, 330 in anime episode Y"... "
i wasn't even edit warring. I didn't even know what was going on, the video games should be removed from the page and have it's pages featured like it was. Meshack (talk) 22:11, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Zax90, do not speak for others. You're taking comments out of context from old discussions. "Perhaps we should..." is obviously a suggestion while brainstorming, not an adamant opinion. You also mentioned a few people who agreed with part of what you said, then took credit for the agreeing with a part you made up afterward. Zax90, stop making huge changes to the page while conversation is still occurring. On a Wiki, you discuss disputes and eventually reach an agreement. You don't trample over everyone and repeatedly edit war while everyone else is being civil. You were blocked by another admin 3 days ago for edit warring but apparently you didn't learn anything. As it happens, you not only removed video game power levels but also all the content from other sources such as movie pamphlets. Some video games give us new information about power levels that are in line with the story, and it would be a disservice to readers to hide that data. For instance, video game levels are all we have for GT. Further, you suggest splitting the article into 6 sections by media type, when it is already in 4 sections by chronology. 24 sections of power levels all mashed up and occurring at random times is worse than splitting by time of occurrence. It would be impossible to follow. Likewise, we shouldn't force someone looking for Frieza's power level to scroll through 6 different articles, what an inconvenient chore that would be.
- We've talked through 3 or 4 examples of fake listings, so let's take those out, I don't think anyway wants them kept on the article. Some people in this thread are confusing video game information with vandalism and we should eliminate the vandalism before we move on. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:30, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
Only the one person he quoted said "perhaps". One of those said the page was a disorganised mess (which it is) and another says it needs cleaning as its aconfusing and frustrating. Either way the point is that at least SIX people have made similar suggestions.
I was the one who made the table and I DIDNT remove the movie pamphlet power levels. I listed Movie 3 pamphlet as one of the sources. NONE of that was removed at all.
What do you mean by 6 sections? There was a table with power levels sourced from the anime, manga, movies, daizenshuu, weekly shonen jump and the movie pamphlet and then he made a section called video game power levels and put a link to them. If it's simpler put them all on one page which is what I would have done.
Now you said this was about a consensus. So far it seems like you just want it the way you want it. Be fair now. Theres a lot of comments on this talk page who have suggested the separation and voiced there opinion on it being confusing and contradicting. Those looking for power level info are least likely to be interested in the video games in the first place.-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:49, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
Sorry I didnt see Meshack's comment at first. So he's also in agreement that it should go back to how it was with the video games kept separate. Now surely that's a consensus?-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:53, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Instead of making separate pages for video games, Carddass, etc; can't we make separate tables, but still in the same page (this one)? 23:08, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
- A consensus means everyone agrees to a solution. A consensus is not a vote, and as you ignored me saying earlier you should not be pulling quotes out of context from different conversations. If you read Zax90's comments, he proposed 6 different articles to spread this info across. You're saying you don't remember that, but you agree with him. Meshack wants a separate page for video games, and Sandubadear wants tables. A consensus has not been reached, so less keep discussing and have a little patience. A lot of movie pamphlet info was deleted in that 27k+ edit that's being edit warred with. Why don't we take my suggestion and delete the vandalism as a first step because some people are confusing vandalism with video game content. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
The consensus is that it shouldnt be left the way it is. I, Zax and Meshack believe it was better how it was before. Sandubear (twice) and Neffyarious suggested having the video game power levels not be on the same table etc. Zax didnt propose 6 different articles thats just how it added up, ask him and he probably wouldnt mind them being grouped into one page.
And youre right there were some off the movie pamphlet I missed out because they werent listed on kanzenshuu and I missed seeing it in the gallery but that would have been an easy fix.
Deleting the vandalism should be a given not a suggestion, I'd done that already. Then what? It still looks like a mess.
Why is Puar and Oolongs power level listed twice with the exact same number and source? It's just things like that, so many people have edited it over the years, put so much all on one table, multiple versions of the same character, that nobody notices these mistakes, nobody proof reads it and it needs a serious do over.
I say that all the video game power levels should be on there own separate table. Whether it remains on the same page or is it's own separate page...whichever you think is best but it shouldnt all be one big ugly table that's just shoving everything into one pot.-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:54, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
- You're still getting the issues confused. "Change the page" is a consensus, but not one that we can act on. When you change it by accidentally deleting good info, deleting info you have a bias against, and removing some vandalism it is obviously going to be disputed. Everyone agrees to remove double-posts on a table, but not everyone agrees to delete all video game info. Even you are suggesting it be on a separate table now instead. As a first step, go ahead and remove double-posted and fake information. Then it will be impossible to confuse article vandalism as a defense for bias. When that is done, we can discuss how to handle video game content. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:10, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
But the infomation wasn't deleted, someone had made separate pages with all this information still there just moved. The one's that I did accidently miss I could have just spent a couple minutes putting in there if you just told me.
I was perfectly fine with how the page was after Zax had added the video game section. My suggestion is that it should be left as it was. I'm saying if thats not good enough for you then we could try that instead.
Why do I need to remove the false info first then discuss it? Were already discussing it now and you're talking about a consensus but arent actually making any suggestions for there to be agreed upon.
If I put the page back to how it was. Add in the information I missed before and combine all the video game power levels on to the one page and link to it on this page then is that good enough?-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 07:46, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
LOL looks that's not gonna be so easy because you actually went and DELETED his pages first before reaching an agreement so even if we had agreed on it the pages would have to be done all over again...what an unnecessary thing for you to do.-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 10:50, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
- My suggestion was to take out fake and double-posted info because you keep using vandalism as a justification for adding an anti-video game bias to the article. If the vandalism is removed, then it will be much more difficult for you to confuse the two issues. I reverted his edits, including moving content to a separate page, because he was edit warring. I feel like this is devolving into a defense of edit warring rather than a discussion of the issue at hand, which is how to format this article. Forget the edit warring in the past and move on to suggestions for the future. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:46, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
Yeah see you say edit warring even though I explained that I did it as an example of what the page could look like and for you to give an opinion on it.
- Edit summaries don't exempt you from edit warring. You both removed vandalism AND reformatted the article to separate video game info, which is 100% exactly the thing I keep repeating you are confused about. You are doing a good thing (removing vandalism) and using it to justify a bad thing (edit warring, changing the article to the way you want it before a consensus is reached). Do you understand what I'm saying? You're doing 2 things. 1 thing is good, and 1 thing is bad. Doing both does not make the overall edit good. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 20:01, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
Last section was getting too long so staed a new one. So I provided an example for you to take a look at, thoughts?
Personally id put the video game power levels on a separate page but others can decide that.
I think it looks better this way. I put back the missing movie pamphlet info also and there were other mistakes I noticed that I fixed. For example Turles power level being over 300,000 after eating the fruit was not in the pamphlet at all.
Is it ok the way it is now? Same info on two tables, cleaned up without all the errors. That's got to be good enough now right?-- 100x.Big.Bang.Kame.hame.ha.....talk.....contrib. 14:37, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
- 10/10. This way looks best. 17:20, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
- First of all, STOP EDIT WARRING. I could not be more clear. Article formatting aside, you are ignoring the rules of the site by simply making whatever changes to the article that you want when we're obviously still discussing the issue. We all know what a table looks like; you don't need to edit war to show us a table.
- You're starting to win me over, but I have a lingering concern we should discuss, which is the precedent this is setting for the article. If video games are separated, it's more likely that we'll separate movies, guides, anime, and manga into separate tables, or even articles, which is actually what Zax90 suggested. Before you know it, it's going to be a big task for a reader to simply find out whether Frieza's anime power level matches a guide at the same point in time... and the benefit is things "look best"? The articles should be informative as a first priority, moreso than looking nice. The fact is, separating any content by source is a slippery slope to a useless website where readers need to collect puzzle pieces because the editors were feeling creative. To address this, we need to document here exactly why separating video game power levels is fundamentally different from segregating all content by source. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:58, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
- You said "informative as a first priority", and that's exactly why separate is better. Some person sees Kid Buu's power level as being 1,100,000,000 in the game Battle Taikan Kamehameha and Broly's 1,400,000,000 in V-Jump in the same table and uses this to say that Kid Buu is weaker than Broly, when logically Buu is much stronger. Grouping them together is more misinformative than informative. The canon level of the Manual of Style can also be used for those things. 20:03, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Just making a note that I removed some irrelevant chatter made after this discussion had ended for housekeeping. Everyone agreed to separate video game content on this article. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:37, September 13, 2015 (UTC)
What about Frieza's 1.3 million in base form he achieved after training in Frieza's Ressurection?
Am I the only one surprised that Broly is almost as strong as Super 17?01:38, November 29, 2015 (UTC)
Logically, to dish out an overwhelming beating a character only needs to have a 25% higher power level than the other party (See Manga Goku vs Frieza). For Broly, this may not be canon but I believe that his actual power levels shouldn't even be close to a billion during the first movie. Even if you assume 25% per character, Broly tanked 4 at the most in the movie (+100% edge), their average being around 200 million or so... Broly could very well be at 400 million if they were 200 million and still dish out the same amount of beating he gave them.YinyangElementofduality (talk) 08:43, November 1, 2016 (UTC)
About The Real 4D Advertisement.
I would like to bring this to the attention of moderators. I just watched The Real 4D Advertisement where Frieza stated his power levels. The numbers you gave for Frieza's power levels from The Real 4D Advertisement is wrong. Frieza in the advertisement states "My power is 53 亿 or 億 ~ you might have heard something that sounds like Yi. One Yi (亿/億) is not 1 Billion. One 億/亿 is 100 million. Hence Frieza's power levels was in fact 5.3 billion not 53 billion. So his power levels from The Real 4D is 5,300,000,000 (10 digits) Shallowordepthsxian (talk) 09:34, October 22, 2016 (UTC)
I wonder if we can take it that Resurrection F's Frieza Final Form also have 5.3 billion power level or just Frieza's power for the events that took place in Real 4D movie? Goku had quite a lot of trouble with Frieza in Real 4D though. Shallowordepthsxian (talk) 17:00, October 22, 2016 (UTC)
Another user wants the name of this page changed from List of Power Levels to List of Battle Powers due to the term being used in the recent Broly movie. Is that a change we want to make? Does the latest phrase make up for what it was referred to as in the series throughout it's run and what fans are familiar with?Bullza (talk) 13:07, January 21, 2019 (UTC)
- I'm honestly not sure why you're so hellbent on protecting this page but not the main page. Funimation had all the right in the world to use "power level" in the Broly movie but they didn't and used "battle power" instead. Why? Because 戦闘力 literally means "battle power" and "power level" is one of their many, many mistransations that this wiki just went along with because it favors local translations over direct translations. They've fixed their mistake; now let's fix ours. Lightning Laxus (talk) 16:04, January 21, 2019 (UTC)
- One thing at a time. As I said this is one of the wikis most popular pages, the overwhelming vast majority of the fanbase know them as Power Levels, it's what is searched for and what is referred to in the series for many years. This Wiki is based on the English dub and that is what we go off.
- We'd need to agree if it was worth it to change all of that because of the newest movie. I'm not saying it won't change, we just need to see if others agree it should be first.Bullza (talk) 20:19, January 21, 2019 (UTC)
We tend to use the original dub terms here, even if they're corrected later. In this case we would definitely use power level of battle power, it's whats been used up until very recently. --Neffyarious (talk) 21:56, January 21, 2019 (UTC)
- Then, Battle Power will have to renamed back to Power Level and just mention the new term instead with a reference. DragonEmeperor (talk) 23:08, January 21, 2019 (UTC)
Don't know if this has been posted alreadyBut here is base Masked Bardock Xeno's power level in Heroes. FlatZone (talk) 22:11, August 29, 2019 (UTC)