This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber article.
I deleted the portion of the Sayain saga For it was not related,it was about the Pendulum Room some one had accidentally placed it, anyway the Room of Time and spirit was first seen only in the Imperfect cell saga--Sk 07:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's correct. Pendulum Room redirected here, which was probably the cause of the mistake. I replaced the redirect with a stub for the time being, but if someone with a little time wants to convert the section that was in this article into a full article for Pendulum Room, that'd probably work well. -- 04:56, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
I corrected and clarified the information about the gravity in the time chamber.
Whoever undid that edit, I suggest watching the episode again. The gravity is normal in the living area, but the step over the threshold into the training area is 10x gravity. It's immediate, rather than gradual. You may have seen the episode a couple of weeks ago, but it's been 3 years since I saw it, and I still remember clearly Gohan being brought to his knees by the sudden gravity increase. It took him a while to get used to it. Goku had no problem because King Kai's planet is 10x gravity; Vegeta had no problem because Planet Vegeta is 10x gravity (not to mention both Goku and Vegeta trained at 100x gravity or more by this point); I seem to recall Trunks having difficulty with it, but he I don't think he fell to his knees like Gohan did. Iuvenes 15:17, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
- Here's another source for that . Unfortunately I can't find the episode on YouTube - looks like it's been removed by Funimation. If I don't get a source for the current explanation, I'll change it back soon.
- Also, I don't think that the gravity increases the further out you go - only the density of the air and weather turmoil, but I'm not AS sure about that as I am sure that the step over the threshold is an immediate 10x gravity increase, rather than a gradual increase. Iuvenes 16:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
It's been fun talking to myself about this, but I finally found the correct info in Funimation episode #140 . Just as I thought, it's 10x gravity in the training area, with no gradual increase - it's the density of the air that increases the further out you go. Iuvenes 20:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah that's what I noticed when I re-watched the episode just now. I thought I added the bit about the gravity after I watched the episode, but it was actually the mention of the chamber air growing increasingly dense in the recesses beyond the plaza that I submitted. Storm talk – projects 20:54, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
- Well, the article didn't say anything about the increasingly dense air when I edited it - just gravity (which doesn't increase). So I fixed it. In any case, I had fun watching one of my favorite fights in the whole series again (Vejita vs. Cell). It's been a while. :) Seriously, how often do we get to see Vejita kick ass and take names? Of course he gets his ass kicked in the end, but he deserved it. Iuvenes 04:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
It seems that the Room Of Spirit And Time can adjust gravity,but i'm not sure.According to other sources it can be adjusted up to 150x gravity.It seems it's true,because both Goku and Vegeta have trained in 100x gravity.--Ultimate godzilla 17:04, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
- If that's true, it's from GT - there's nothing in the canon about adjustable gravity for the time chamber. But Goku trained in 100x gravity in his ship on the way to Namek, and Vegeta trained in the gravity room at up to 500x gravity while training for the androids. Iuvenes 00:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
- Wrong, actually. The third machine's limit's is techinally unknown. It was shown, if I remember correctly, It go es up to at least 510x Gravity. (And I know, old comment, but...yeah/yah. :P. :)-) WaffleGuy26 talk contrib 01:55, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
- Nothing about that in GT. I don't think the chamber was even mentioned in GT... -- 10:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Theres something i've been thinking about. The hyperbolic time chamber can only be used twice by someone but would that count in all timelines? If future Trunks trained in the time chamber in timeline 1 then if he went back to his own time would he be able to train in it 1 or 2 times seeing as he hadn't trained in it in his time?(Nubescout 22:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC))
- Actually I don't remember it being said about the two days max per person. I do however remember it being said that they could go in for two days max in a row but after that they had to come out.--Alpha Lycos 10:15, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
I think the time scale thing needs to changed. It should say that 2hours is equal to 1month as thats more accurate. Seeing as 1day = 1year(24hours = 12months). So one hour would be roughly 2 weeks.--Alpha Lycos 10:17, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
I've recently been reading the original translated manga, and in that it only says that you can use it for 2 days at a time, not in your whole lifetime. Does anybody have a problem with me changing that in the article? Coronis 07:40, November 9, 2010 (UTC)
Actually, If you go by the Anime, in "Learn to Fuse", Goku states the chamber can only be:used two times in a lifetime. Its toward the end. Please check this out and decide which we shall use, or if both shall be stated. Amaroq25 (talk) 12:33, June 7, 2015 (UTC)
Time dilation table
On 19 June 2012, I made this change to the article with the summary, "simplified calculations and added units". It was reverted a few minutes later by another editor without an explanation. I do not know what I did wrong, so I would appreciate it if an editor would tell me why my revision was reverted. Thanks. --Joshua Issac 17:08, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
- The problem is your "simplification". The basis in mathematics is to be accurate. 19:48, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for your reply. I totally agree that the mathematical basis must remain accurate. I will list and explain my changes below.
- One of my changes was replacing equals signs with arrows where the two quantities where not equal to each other. For example, I changed "1 day = 365.25 days" to "1 day → 365.25d". The version with the equals sign implies reflexive equality, but that is mathematically impossible. My revision shows that 1 day is mapped to 365.25 days (rather than implying equality). Moreover, the use of abbreviated units for the hyperbolic times helps distinguish between standard time lengths and hyperbolic time lengths. I also replaced "x" with "×", the Unicode multiplication sign.
- The second change was the introduction (or modification) of units. For example, the current version has the line ".25x60(min)=15", which is algebraically incorrect. My version, "0.25h×60(min/h)=15min" shows why we are multiplying by 60 (it is the number of minutes per hour), and is also algebraically correct, since the units all match up.
- The third change was the simplification that I noted in the edit summary. The exact change was to split the number 365.25 into 360 + 5 + 0.25, considering each term separately, yielding three separate results that correspond to three parts of the answer (e.g. days, hours and minutes). This simplification is mathematically sound. It so happens that 360 = 24 × 15 = 60 × 6. This means that the number of days that 360 hours is equal to, is an integer. The number of hours that 360 minutes is equal to, is an integer. The number of minutes that 360 seconds is equal to, is also an integer. There is no need to include "5.25" is these calculations as that will only serve to complicate it, with no benefit. When we want to convert 365.25 hours to days, the "360" is the days part, "5" is the hours part and ".25" the minutes part. This method is simpler than calculating the result using "365.25", then taking the decimal part and reversing the calculation (which is what the current version does). By splitting the problem rather than the solution, we avoid unneeded complexity.
- As far as I can see, my simplification did not introduce any inaccuracies into the table. Please tell me if this addresses your concerns. Thanks --Joshua Issac 20:20, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
So I read the first part and then stopped, since I already see a problem. While your math is correct, we are not an advanced mathematics text book, and our readers are not necessarily scholars. Part of being a wiki is finding a balance between comprehensiveness and simplicity such that our readers get their info in a quick and easy way. Having to wonder about what an arrow means will slow down this process by adding ambiguity for younger or less educated readers with little to no informational advantage. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:30, December 9, 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying. The arrows I used are not special mathematical symbols. They are just normal, commonly used arrows that are used to show that one thing is turning into another thing (maps to is just another phrase for turns into). For example, if you search for Pidgey evolution chart on Google Image Search, one of the top results shows arrows being used like this.
- But the most important change I made was to simplify the numbers. I got rid of complicated decimals like .21875 (in the current table), and replaced them with simpler numbers. I did this by splitting up 365.25 = 360 + 5 + 0.25.
- Current table:
Real World Time Chamber Calculation 1 Day 365.25 Days (1 year) 1 day = 365.25 days, 1 hour = 365.25 hours 1 Hour 15 Days, 5 hours and 15 mins 365.25/24=15.21875, .21875x24=5.25,
1 Minute 6 hours and 5 minutes
1 Second 6 minutes 365.25/60(min)=6.08
- Simplified table:
Real World Time Chamber Calculation 1 day 1 year 1 day → 365.25d=1y 1 Hour 15 days, 5 hours and 15 mins 1 hour → 365.25h
1 minute 6 hours and 5 minutes 1 minute → 365.25min
360min/60(mins/h) = 6h
1 second 6 minutes 1 second → 365.25s
360s/60(secs/min) = 6min
- Each calculation (for day, hour, minute and second) follows exactly the same, simple format. No confusing numbers like .21875 and .08x60. This was the main reason I edited the table in the first place. I await your feedback. --Joshua Issac (talk) 23:20, December 13, 2012 (UTC)
Your new version looks good to me. Let's wait a week or so before replacing the old one just to make sure there are no meaningful objections. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:12, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. Since there were no objections for a week, I have updated the section with the new table. --Joshua Issac (talk) 14:30, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
Is the Hyperbolic Time Chamber ground Indestructible?
Hmm...I have no Idea to be honest...Probably not that, as they had destroyed the Building, so...yah. Hope that helps you with your question?...:)?! WaffleGuy26 talk contrib 02:28, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
If you are only aloud to enter the Hyperbolic time chamber twice, then what would happen, if a fused character, ex. "Vegito", enter in it? Would the chamber recognize them as a new person, or...not, or what? :)? (xD, that rhymes..;P :)-) WaffleGuy26 talk contrib 02:26, August 31, 2014 (UTC)
- I think that it's a possibility that the fusion would wear off as the dimension doesn't recognize fusions as a single entity. It's a possibility that the fused character may enter but no confirmation of how many times it would be allowed to. We see Gotenks in the situation, but only once, so it's not possible to determine the outcome of what would happen if a fused entity were to enter more than two times. - 02:43, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
- No. Unless that's a rumour that he is the first villain of DB Super. 00:52, May 19, 2015 (UTC)
Well, looks like we have a major contradiction with the original manga and DBS in terms of staying in the room for 3 days in a row. I guess Toriyama didn't like or didn't remember the old limit? -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:42, December 27, 2015 (UTC)
Super Saiyan Blue
Chapter 5 of the DragonBall Super manga has officially changed the, admittedly ridiculous, name of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to Super Saiyan Blue.
- The manga is not being written by Toriyama, whereas the movies were. The manga author may just be doing this to save space in panels. Toriyama wrote a plot outline for the manga and anime teams, and that outline is the highest canon level for Super along with the movies. For us the view SS Blue as the more official name, we would need to see it used in the anime; if it appears in both the anime and manga, then it was on the Toriyama outline. If not, it was a choice by the manga author only, and not as official and SSGSS. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:26, December 29, 2015 (UTC)
- I personally believe that argument to be just as invalid, though, as Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is never spoken, English OR Japanese, in Resurrection F/Fukkatsu no F. The only mention of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was in a magazine article, and the term was coined by the person who wrote the article, not Toriyama, IIRC. Therefore, I contest that Super Saiyan Blue is more valid as its introduction occurs alongside the only official usage of the name Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan that exists in all 3 forms of DragonBall Super. Piccolo113 (talk) 19:47, December 29, 2015 (UTC)
- You make a good point, SSGSS was in guidebooks, merchandise, and video games but not the movies like I thought before investigating more. SSGSS is also acknowledged as the name by Goku and Vegeta in the manga prior to the rename. This makes it unclear how the guidebooks, merchandise, video games, and manga all arrived at the same name... was it Toriyama or did one of those sources pick the name and the rest ran with it? Either way, when the anime episodes catch up to that manga discussion, we will have our answer of whether Toriyama is behind SS Blue or not. Until then, we don't have enough evidence either way. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:57, December 29, 2015 (UTC)
Um is the Hyperbolic Time Chamber permenantely destroyed? I mean, we see that there is a huge crater in Kami's lookout. Or can Mr. Popo rebuild it? I don't know, maybe they will wish to recreate the chamber with the dragon balls. But Vegeta had absolutely no reason to destroy the chamber. He just did it to be a dick. Why? TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 01:08, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
- It can be rebuilt. Piccolo destroyed it during the Buu saga and it was rebuilt fairly easily. It was mainly blown up just to show that Vegeta is stronger now, gonna guess he didn't mean to do it and he powered up too hard or something. -- • • 01:19, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
- Not to mention that part of the lookout itself got destroyed. again (3rd time if you count garlic jr saga). 0551E80Y (talk) 01:44, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
But it was still a dick move on Vegeta's part. I hope Popo can handle it. And there is something else I don't understand. When Goku and Vegeta went in the chamber during the Tournament Saga, both said that they wouldn't get much more powerful then they already were. But then how is it that Vegeta got so much more powerful in 1/6 of that time? Logic is not being used here at all. TNTDiscoCisco (talk) 12:09, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
- That was at a time when they believed SS was the highest form. They now know the limits are higher, and they are better at training to break through those limits. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:43, October 25, 2016 (UTC)
Where is it stated (chapter/episode) that this room is actually endless because it's very possible that there is an end or it's even smaller than we thought to that of a planet. Nibbler3100 (talk) 03:25, October 25, 2016 (UTC)