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How Much Power?

Does anyone know exactly what level of power a Saiyan/half-Saiyan needs to achieve to become a Golden Great Ape upon transformation? It seems like it could be anything from Super Saiyan, to Super Saiyan 3, since there are no Great Ape transformations in the series by a Super Saiyan (other than maybe the Original Super Saiyan) until Goku is already Super Saiyan 3. The Vegeta-Bulma energy rays only add to the confusion. Can anyone say what the requirements are for sure? -- 07:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

A Golden Oozoru make you 500 times stronger (think about 10*50=500)Hey word on the streets is Vegerot rocks!Vegerot (talk) 13:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)!!

Good to know, but what I was really wondering was what level of power needed to be reached to attain the Golden Great Ape form? -- 19:29, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Super Saiyan,tail, and moon!Hey word on the streets is Vegerot rocks!Vegerot (talk) 13:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)!!!!!!


How come as a Golden Ape Goku lost his mind while back in the Saiyn saga Vegeta could turn into a great ape and not go insane. Vegetas power level was only 18 thousand back then (180 thousand when transformed) while Super Saiyn Four Goku would be probably several million.Wikiguy 10:40, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

It isn't about power level, its about control.Thank you taking time to listen to my post! 21:05, January 5, 2010 (UTC)!!!

Golden Great Ape Requirements

1.Intact Tail 2.absorbtion of Blutz Waves (possibly Over millions of Zenos) 3.High power level (high enough to reach SS3 if you know how to transform,Vegeta was strong enough to reach SS3 but didn't know how). 4.In Possession of SS (Probaby Full-Power SS)Rhm 89 10:14, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Picture..?

The picture shown of the Legendary Super Saiyan in Vegeta's story, is that the Great Ape that's supposed to be shown? If so, I don't think that's a Great Ape... it has boots (hard to see, but looking carefully shows a line that marks the boots, and the foot is in that shape)... Also, I can't see the tail.

It goes with the trivia. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 03:46, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
The boots could've expanded, and it could have wrapped it's tail around it's waist, or it's just the angle.Endomarru 03:36, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Golden Great Ape Super Saiyan 3 or Super Saiyan 2

Is their a possibilty of a SSJ2 or SSJ3 Golden Great ape (since the golden ape is actually a merger between a super saiyan and great ape)? Also would it allow a SSJ5 and SSJ6? Even Bulma said that vegeta could have possibly become a super saiyan 5 (since he can transform to a super saiyan 2)?

Probably not, there is no evidence for any of it. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 01:17, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

i think there a possibility for SS2,SS3 and SS4 great apes ,it just they havent show us them , but SSJ5+ probably not--Linkdarkside 15:37, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

In Dragon Ball GT the Golden Oozaru basically had the same power level of Super Saiyan 4 because Goku as a Golden Oozaru was superior to Baby Vegeta but was too primitive to focus on defeating Baby. Once Goku was a Super Saiyan 4, he easily had the upper hand. When Baby Vegeta transformed though, he and Goku were pretty much equals. So, the idea of Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3 Golden Great Apes would not make sense. Unlike the many various Super Saiyan froms, I believe there is only one type of Golden Great Ape. Super Saiyan Historian 02:01, December 21, 2010 (UTC)


Is it just me, or are Golden Apes significantly larger than an average Great Ape? ZPRN 02:18, May 2, 2011 (UTC)

Golden Great Ape Baby is significantly larger than normal, but regular Golden Great Apes seem to be smaller actually. Pan relative to Golden Great Ape Goku appears larger than Goku relative to Great Ape Vegeta, plus when Vegeta transforms from Regular Great Ape to Golden Great Ape, he shrinks a bit.--Megatronacepticon 12:01, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Golden Great Ape Broly

Look, Broly having access to the Golden Great Ape is not speculation, it's fact. Dragon Ball GT made explicitly clear that the only way to access the Super Saiyan 4 form is if the person had gone Golden Great Ape (ie, they transformed into a Great Ape while in the Super Saiyan state, any form would do), and they learned to control that power. Since Broly has access to the SSJ4 form, unless they specifically cited another means to access the form, the only explanation (and I do mean "only" in every single way) is if he had access to the Golden Great Ape form. It doesn't need to be shown to be stated. So, in other words, DON'T remove the Golden Great Ape comment in SSJ4, because it is not speculation at all, it's a confirmed fact. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 19:26, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

I agree that "it doesn't need to be shown to be stated", but it does need to be stated in licensed media to be stated here. We saw Goku and Vegeta reach Super Saiyan 4 by becoming a Golden Great Ape first, and then later by transforming directly from base form. We do not know all the implications of Broly's "legendary" forms. Saying that his clearly unusual version of the Super Saiyan 4 form must have reached in one of the two possible ways we have seen is speculation. The reason for the Golden Great Ape transformation was to learn how to harness its increased power. With Broly's power constantly increasing automatically, it's equally likely that it simply increased by the power difference to reach SS4, as it was that he got access to Blutz Waves. The most we could claim is a note on Broly's page only, in the Super Saiyan 4 section, saying that he may have used Golden Great Ape along the way. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 21:16, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

i agree this is the only way a saiyan can reach super saiyan 4 - Nikon23 8/11/2014

[citation needed]A (tc) 14:15, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

We have seen two ways of transforming to SS4. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 20:44, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

But both of it include Golden Oozaru transformation--Date450190486 05:07, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

No, the two types are with and without Golden Great Ape. Goku and Vegeta both need to use GGAthe get to SS4 their first time, then later they can do it without the step in between. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 07:59, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Transformation after achievement of form its not a method. Methods of achieve this form is only 2 and both with GGA form--Date450190486 10:34, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

10X Kamehameha, isn't that like saying the Super Saiyan form doesn't require an emotional spark? In every case, if I recall correctly, of a Saiyan/Saiyan-hybrid taking on the Super Saiyan form for the first time, the person had to be really emotional, even though they could assume the form later while being perfectly calm. The spark is required for the first time, but when the Super Saiyan form is achieved, it's permanently available. This is essentially how the Golden Great Ape and Super Saiyan 4 forms correspond; the Golden Great Ape being the spark and the Super Saiyan 4 form being the Super Saiyan form. This is just what I think, at least.  Látaub | talk | contribs 300px janemba 1 forma render.png 480 480 0 64000 0 1 0 17:50, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I won't argue against what seems like unanimous opposition : ) Broly has access to Golden Great Ape! I'll send Broly an email, he'll be thrilled. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 22:43, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

There is a third way of getting SS4, and that is fusion, Gogeta did not need GGA to go SS4. But Broly is not a fusion so that does not apply to him.--Neffyarious (talk) 13:56, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

Again - transform on its not a way to achieve form. SS Gogeta too dont need emotional burst, but its not a second way to "achieve" SS form--Date450190486 14:53, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

The original Super Saiyan a user of this form

Ok the last user to edit GGA page said that their was no hard evidence to support that the original Super Saiyan to have the form. Well what about when Vegeta was talking about the Legendary Super Saiyan in the anime doesn't that count as hard evidence. It does to me because the Original Super Saiyan was in the GGA form from the looks so yea.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  21:48,8/15/2014 

"From the looks." Super Saiyan's first appearance was also not exactly the spiky gold hair. That definitely doesn't seem like enough evidence to prove the Original Super Saiyan was a GGA. --City♥Lights[stars] 21:50, August 15, 2014 (UTC)
Are you talking about Lord Sulg's movie because that form is called False Super Saiyan for a reason.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  22:37,8/15/2014 
...But I'm not. --City♥Lights[stars] 00:06, August 16, 2014 (UTC)
Then what are you talking about because Super Saiyan 1 in the anime has always been blonde.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  00:10,8/16/2014 
I said its first appearance, which is a minor example... --City♥Lights[stars] 00:13, August 16, 2014 (UTC)
Dude it's first appearance it was the goldish yellow spikey hair. Because it's first appearance in the anime was Transformed at Last.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  00:19,8/16/2014 
I am referring to its first appearance as it is shown in Vegeta's story to Friza (maybe Goku?) and how it depicted a Super Saiyan. It wasn't spot on of what a normal Super Saiyan had appeared like when Goku actually first transformed. --City♥Lights[stars] 00:21, August 16, 2014 (UTC)
Dude Vegeta wasn't talking to anyone when he was talking about the Legend of the Super Saiyan.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  00:37,8/16/2014 

There's a certain extent to where you can see a square shaped hole and you can't say "there isn't any proof a square goes here". Miiiight be that time. — A (tc) 21:53, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

Related to SS3?

In Dragon Ball Heroes, Gogeta can go Golden Great Ape when he's in the Super Saiyan 3 level. He powers up, and then transforms into Golden Great Ape. Why?!?!?! Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 23:47, January 23, 2015 (UTC)

  • Technically, only pure Golde Oozaru its Goku, who achieved the Super Saiyan 3 level. Its possible that for achieved Golden Oozaru level, saiyan need not only tail, but all of SS tranformations, 1, 2 and 3--Date450190486 09:30, January 24, 2015 (UTC)
Why not, Sandubadear? It's as strong as SS4. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 00:13, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

No, the question is "Is it related to SS3?" If the character were chosen as Golden Great Ape, I'd understand, but the Dragon Ball Heroes card for Golden Great Ape Gogeta begins as a SS3 Gogeta, and after a few turns he can power up and transform into Golden Great Ape. This isn't the case with Goku, who is also playable as a Golden Great Ape. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 00:30, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think Dragon Ball Heroes should be taken that serious. It is just an arcade game with the possibility beyond imagination. Super Saiyan 3 Gogeta does not even have a tail to become an Oozaru. Golden Great Ape, going only by Dragon Ball GT, is exclusively related to Super Saiyajin 4.BigGrim (talk) 00:39, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

"It is just an arcade game with the possibility beyond imagination"
— BigGrim

Haha! That was the best description of DBH I've ever seen. Next step in Dragon Ball Heroes is SSJ Nappa and SSJ5 Goku. Yakon RenderSandubadearPui Pui Render 00:58, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

SS3 is a requirement and part of Golden Great Ape.

" If the long blonde hair is Super Saiyan 3 and the red body hair is Super Saiyan 4, what is the giant monkey form in between them called?
–Angelica, Phoenix, Ariz.While any Saiyan can turn into a giant monkey–called the “Oozaru” form in the Japanese–when he looks at a full moon (Goku does a few times in DB and his son Gohan does it once in DBZ), this is a special mode only achieved after the Super Saiyan 3 level. "

If Super Saiyan 3 was not a part of the GGA form it would not be a requirement, they would have just said Super Saiyan was instead. FlatZone (talk) 21:18, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

If it's a form that's only achieved after Super Saiyan 3 then how was Baby Vegeta able to achieve it when he couldn't turn Super Saiyan 3?Bullza (talk) 21:50, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

"This form might be a version of Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 3; the first volume of the Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files states that "Strongest Form 2, which resembles Super Saiyan 3";[3]  not to mention he was forced into the form with Brutz Waves. FlatZone (talk) 22:11, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

This is from the ssj4 article's talk page. --0551E80Y (talk) 22:33, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

Super Saiyan 3 is a necessary component to be able to use Golden Ozaru. Which is why besides not having his tail Vegeta could not do it without the Blutz Waves. FlatZone (talk) 18:24, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

If Super Saiyan 3 was not a part of the GGA form it would not be a requirement, they would have just said Super Saiyan was the requirement instead. FlatZone (talk) 21:18, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

Goku needs to be in extreme danger to access Ultra Instinct. Does this mean extreme danger is part of Ultra Instinct? Obviously not. It's a requirement to access the form, but it has no actual relation to the form.

Likewise, just because a Saiyan needs to be able to transform into SS3 to (later) access Golden Great Ape and SS4 does not mean that SS3 is a part of either one of those forms.

Orion (T-B-C) 21:50, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

Exactly. By that logic, it would mean Vegeta wouldn't have attained the form even with the Blutz wave generator. And as we know, he reached SSJ4 and the Golden Great Ape forms. That means the user must attain the level of Super Saiyan at least.Rogeta234 (talk) 21:59, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

"This form might be a version of Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 3; the first volume of the Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files states that "Strongest Form 2, which resembles Super Saiyan 3";[3 "]

Brutz waves were used to force the transformation on Baby, he didn't have a tail. FlatZone (talk) 22:12, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

I still don't see where it says "Golden Great Ape is a Great Ape that went Super Saiyan 3", which is what you're trying to write in the article.

Orion (T-B-C) 22:20, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

So.... you can't use logic and reading comprehension to put 2 and 2 together?? Why would they require SS3 for GGA if it wasn't a part of GGA?? What sense does that make?? NONE AT ALL. Use your head. FlatZone (talk) 22:24, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

The source doesn't say GGA is SS3+GA. You are speculating. I oppose adding anything that is not what the source says to the article. So either you find a different source, or you get consensus for adding your speculation/headcanon/fanon.

Orion (T-B-C) 22:36, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

You need Super Saiyan 3, a tail and bruits waves, OR Super Saiyan 3, and a brutz wave amplifier machine to get GGA. Why?? Why does it need Super Saiyan 3?? Answer is simple, it is a component for the GGA form.

Without SS3 you cannot have GGA.

Without Super Saiyan God you cannot have SSGSS.

Same difference. Super Saiyan God is literally a requirement and a part of SSGSS. Super Saiyan 3 is literally a requierement and a part of GGA not Super Saiyan, not Super Saiyan 2.. but clearly put down as Super Saiyan 3. You seriously aren't getting this?? this is flabbergasting. FlatZone (talk) 22:43, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

You're just using a wiki, which was right to give you the boot I might add, that uses fanmade stuff. Rogeta234 (talk) 23:34, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

What are you even talking about?? FlatZone (talk) 23:58, April 14, 2019 (UTC)

Dragon Ball fanon. Rogeta234 (talk) 00:12, April 15, 2019 (UTC)

That is what this website is and it is a wikia. So again what are you talking about?? FlatZone (talk) 15:48, April 15, 2019 (UTC)

You're talking about DBUniverse wikia which the founder banned me for me retaliating against you here, which had nothing to do with their wikia. The founder who banned me there has mental issues and people on the naruto wikia can attest to that, it's the exact reason he doesn't go to the naruto wikia often anymore because almost NOBODY there likes him. LastationLover keeps dbuniverse together and she's the one who puts in the work there and deserves the respect, I have none at all for him. A few other users there help a lot too, but him? not really he just comes in and throws a fit and changes things he doesn't like after her and the others users have already put in all the hard work. FlatZone (talk) 15:54, April 15, 2019 (UTC)

You are going off topic here Flat. Stay on track and keep the talk about other users to a minimum, especially ones that don't edit here.It could be on the border of personal attacks and you'll get in trouble if you go any further. 0551E80Y (talk) 00:49, April 16, 2019 (UTC)

What we observe in the anime trumps what people say in guides. Vegeta can’t go SS3, and obviously does transform into a GGA and SS4. Offhand comments can’t rewrite onscreen events. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 12:08, April 16, 2019 (UTC)

It's more like supplementary information from the producers, animators and editors of GT, which is supported by the perfect guides saying that super baby vegeta 2 resembles his version of Super Saiyan 3. We know this because Super Baby Vegeta 1 is like SS2, while Baby Vegeta goes Super Saiyan himself. What Vegeta lacked was tail and the ability to go into the SS3 form on his own, he needed the Blutz Wave Amplifier both times he entered GGA. It also explains why he can't keep the form after he exits in in GT while Goku can, because not only does he lack the tail, he lacks the ability to enter SS3 on his own. You don't get to decide this information can't go into the page just because you don't like it, it's from an actual source.FlatZone (talk) 15:48, April 16, 2019 (UTC)

Flat if you actually look at the Overview part of the article what you are wanting is already there minus the "that SS3 is part of GGA" part. In the overview it literally says that "This state is attained by Saiyans who have a tail, along with the ability to become a Super Saiyan 3." so therefore why is this even being discussed. Also what you are saying here and what you have added in an edit to the article do contradict each other. I am against your edit of GGA is a Saiyan in GA that went SS3.  Goku20  Talk  ULTRA DBZ  ULTRA POKEMON  06:02,4/17/2019 

I personally am against the statement that "GGA is a Saiyan in GA that went SS3," but I am supportive of the statement that SS3 is a requirement for the form. We never see Vegeta go SS3, but Baby uses (or is implied to use) his own variation of SS3 before going GGA in Vegeta's body, and in games such as Heroes and Dokkan Battle it's generally SS3 characters who have the ability to go Golden Great Ape during battle (along with Baby Vegeta, of course). At the very least, the description that it's a state between SS3 and SS4 can be considered accurate based off the Q&A in my opinion. Gildeds (talk) 01:17, August 10, 2019 (UTC)

I am also personally against it as especially after what Flat said about on April 16. Vegeta couldn't re-enter the form as he didn't have a tail. Vegeta can't go SS3, but went Golden Great Ape as well as Ultra Pinich can't go Super Saiyan 3 and yet went Golden Great Ape. Both in Anime and Video Game; a Saiyan used became a Golden Great Ape without the ability to go SS3.--Made up Character Wiki/Dragon Ball Fanon Wiki Admin Jack Jackson [mod] 08:43, August 10, 2019 (UTC)

Still against, since the question was answered in a magazine by unnamed (we don’t know which of the ones listed) dub cast. Also contradicts anime. Anime events obviously trump voice cast magazine statements. -- SSJ4 Goku(2) 13:46, August 11, 2019 (UTC)

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