This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Goku article.
|Archive 1||November 14, 2008|
|Archive 2||May 30, 2015|
Better pictures for the "Battle of the Gods" section
I've got better (higher quality) screenshots for the Battle of the Gods section. Any interest in me adding them? If so please grant me the permission to do so. ContractorHei (talk) 23:52, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
- You must make 20 edits till you'll be able to upload pictures. we can do nothing on our end, it's a wiki feature. 23:59, July 12, 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks, new to Wikia. A lot of the pages are protected though, and a lot is probably done well already. Guess I'll have to look around. ContractorHei (talk) 00:04, July 13, 2015 (UTC)
Yes, a lot of pages are protected against new users (some people create random accounts so they can vandalize the articles). Try our forums and blogs, if you use them, your edit count will also grow.00:10, July 13, 2015 (UTC)
- Customizing your user page or creating a signature is another great way to get those first few edits. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:41, July 14, 2015 (UTC)
Goku's Birthdate (May or June 737)
Goku's Birthdate (May or June 737)
1. In some sources I found Goku's Birthday is June 14th, 737, making him always one month before turning older in every Budokai (World Martial Arts Tournament), that is, 12 - 15 - 18 in Original DragonBall and 36 in the Buu Saga.
I would like to know and be able to add to the current Bio in this wikia the exact date (May or June) since Dragon Ball Super states that Bills was under sleep for 39 years, so he was in his slumber just the very moment Goku was born, several months before the destruction of Planet Vegeta. We should emphazise that "DB Super" or "Super Beerus Saga" is now the current canon of the series after Dragon Ball Z.
- May 9 doesnt refer to Goku's birthday. It refers to Piccolo Day, a holiday created by Piccolo when he became King of Earth.
- Also "now the current canon" top kek
- 20:06, September 7, 2015 (UTC)
I've been thinking of listing that Goku actually dies three times in the series. Way back during the King Piccolo Saga, King Piccolo beat him so badly that his heart stopped. Yes, it was only for a few minutes, but Goku was technically dead. Smijes08 (talk) 18:49, October 3, 2015 (UTC)
- Nah, Goku still recovered on him own. His heart just took a quick rest, as it were. It's not like Goku needed someone else to bring him back to life. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 21:05, October 3, 2015 (UTC)
Can't sense god ki?
Just watched the new movie, bought it yesterday, and was a little confused when Beerus woke up and started asking why the two saiyans where there. Goku said he had to ask whis because he couldn't sense Beerus's energy...which is odd since he is a SSG now. However it later says that might be because of distance (claiming he might not be able to sense bulma on earth to teleport), however he could. So why couldn't he sense Beerus on that planet?Jspencer93 (talk) 16:21, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Goku and Vegeta aren't gods. People have a misconception of this. They absorb the god power, not its ki That's why in Super, everyone could sense Goku's ki because he wasn't in the god form. Beerus says he absorbed the power, not ki. Meshack (talk) 20:37, October 22, 2015 (UTC)
- Power and ki are basically interchangeable since various translations freely use either one. I wouldn't get too hung up semantics. god ki is probably just harder to sense than regular ki, if you can sense it at all. As for others sensing Goku, seems like Goku isn't using 100% God ki like Beerus does. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:37, October 23, 2015 (UTC)
- Actually, I get what your saying. However, sounds odd for people who are no longer gods to be called SSGSS. Also, now that you mention it, that would explain why everyone can sense his ki in that movie. So only the red haired form actually possesses the god ki, after losing that form he basically lost the deity powers but retained a similar level of strength. Jspencer93 (talk) 20:00, October 26, 2015 (UTC)
They can still battle Whis, so they seem to have retained God ki, but also have regular ki. It's likely that only pure gods have 100% God ki and nothing else, while other beings that access God ki don't lose their regular ki. Just speculating, but maybe as Goku and Vegeta keep training they will eventually get to 100% God ki. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:01, October 29, 2015 (UTC)
Remember, Dende could sense the god ki. It's probably just a skill as for Dende, kami is just a title, he did not gain any additional power. Furthermore, if Frieza can be at the level of the gods, although it has not been officially discussed, he must possess some sort of god or demon ki.
Also, Saiyan Beyond God exists, so does Saiyan Beyond God Super Saiyan 1, 2, and 3 (Used against Future Trunks and Demigra). Therefore, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, or Super Saiyan Blue, must really be the result of going SSG wile already having surpassed SSG.
Either way, if it's called Saiyan Beyond God (SBG), then it must be beyond SSG. Plus Goku and Vegeta did lots of training, plus Hyperbolic Time Chamber stuff and training with Whis.
Saiyan Beyond God->SBGSS->SBGSS2->SBGSS3->SS Blue
Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are both movies, so why aren't they in the movie appearance section like the rest of the films? it doesn't make sense because of the Dragon Ball Super section. Nikon23 03:07, November 28, 2015 (UTC)
Instead of changing the page name, we can just change the display title and call it, Son Goku without changing everything. If you guys stilll don't like the son goku thing, we can change it back Meshack (talk) 03:14, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
- The name of the main character of Dragon Ball is protected so it can't be changed without discussion. It is obviously not okay to change it anyway using a different template. We have talk pages and a Manual of Style for a reason. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:41, November 30, 2015 (UTC)
Team Beerus (Universe 6 arc)
I was thinking for the affiliation section of infobox we could put the universe six arc fighting teams in their own affiliation.
So it would be
- Let's wait until the events have concluded to see how significant it is. We shouldn't add an affiliation in the infobox based on only 1-2 chapters. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:44, December 23, 2015 (UTC)
Saga or arc names
Can we get rid of these weird headings for the arcs and have the normal heading names: Majin Boo arc, Cell arc, Freeza arc, Other World Tournament arc, Saiyan arc, etc. etc. You don't have to necessarily name it that way but... Meshack (talk) 03:56, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
- We should aim to use something official from licensed sources, perhaps anime seasons. "Sagas" is the correct term, not "arcs". -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:50, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
- The official names and not "Journey to Namek" like Saiyan Saga, Namek Saga, Frieza Saga, etc. Meshack (talk) 05:06, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
- I basically gave you the outline of the sagas names I wanted to use but whatever: Saiyan Saga, Namek Saga, Freeza Saga, Android Saga, Cell Saga, Other World Tournament Saga, Majin Boo Saga, Peaceful World Saga Meshack (talk) 05:16, February 14, 2016 (UTC)
In the manga, Goku's boots have a white border and red laces. It's also a lighter blue. In the anime, his boots are dark blue and has a yellow border with a red lace.AceWindz (talk) 09:37, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
Goku - Appearance
In the manga, Goku's boots have a white border and red laces. It's also a lighter blue. In the anime, his boots are dark blue and has a yellow border with a red lace.AceWindz (talk) 09:45, March 25, 2016 (UTC)
- I don't because for one Son Goku really isn't used much, for two we would have to change Gohan's and Goten's among others, and for three if we are going to do that then why not just change it to his Saiyan name.
- Well, I guess 10X is allowing Son Goku is because in the Kai dub, Goku says "Son Goku" and that doesn't go against the MoS either. Maybe doing Gohan's and Goten's is pushing it. And it doesn't matter if it isn't used much. When you talk to someone, most of the time, you won't say their family name. Plus we won't say, "Son Goku this... Son Goku that..." No. We can just say Goku like we already do and why his Saiyan name? Meshack (talk) 06:05, April 5, 2016 (UTC)
- Then why worry about changing it to Son Goku? Because to me it would be pointless since the display name is all that would change. I say we keep it like it is and not worry about changing the name. Because technically speaking everyone of the characters have their birth name as their display name really I am against it being changed at all but if people want it to be changed then I say the his birth name be used over Son Goku.
- Yeah, it's a display name change but you're letting people know, Goku has a family name. It has been said on the MoS to name the pages with the character's full name and Son Goku is his full name... There would be no need to name Goku, "Kakarrot", because the only character that says Kakarrot is Vegeta Meshack (talk) 06:15, April 5, 2016 (UTC)
- Wrong about who says Kakarrot Raditz does and if I remember correctly so does Nappa. If you want to go so far with the whole full name then Bulma and her sister needs theirs in the display name so does Gohan, Goten, Pan, Videl, Hercule, Trunks, Bulla, Vegeta Jr, Goku Jr, and probably others to keep the articles alike, so see you are not only asking me and the other users if we think Goku's display name should be changed but also asking us if we think they all should that have a family name.
- First off, Videl, Mr. Satan, Bulma, Tights, Trunks, and Bra do not have family names. Brief is the name of Bulma's father, which is not their family name. Satan is not Mr. Satan's or Videl's family name. Satan is a stage name, which was said by Toriyama. Secondly, I'm not not asking about the other pages. I'm specifically asking about Goku because it was said in the dub. Meshack (talk) 06:31, April 5, 2016 (UTC)
- Whatever my answer is no it should be left as is. Also here is the section of the MoS that you are talking about "The titles of articles about individual characters should be the name by which the character was most commonly known, with later names preferred to earlier names, and full names preferred to partial names or nicknames. Titles, such as military ranks or titles of nobility, should be omitted. (Vegeta instead of Prince Vegeta.) Exceptions may be made to this rule when a commonly used rank or title is used to distinguish a less prominent character from a major character who shares the same name. For example, King Piccolo, Lord Piccolo or King Vegeta. In such cases, appropriate disambiguation links should be present on all the relevant articles. Titles may also be used when a character is most commonly referred to using that title; for example, Dr. Gero. See naming convention for the preferred sources of names."
- Uhh, Goku20 absolutely cares and the last thing he said was "my answer is no it should be left as is". I agree with him, and it's a good point that we only use first names for all the other main characters. It's true that some of them don't have last names so it's not an option for them, but that doesn't change the fact that it means most main characters have article names with a first name only. It's not like there are 5 other Gokus people are going to get articles confused with. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:24, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
I personally think we should name the page Son Goku. Since Dragon Ball Z Kai acknowledges the name amd that's his full name, we should use it. The Manual of Style suggests that we use full nane anyway, like Magetta or Omori. SSGKakarotto (talk) 00:16, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
- The titles of articles about individual characters should be the name by which the character was most commonly known, with later names preferred to earlier names, and full names preferred to partial names or nicknames. which means that if we go by the MoS then Goku's Saiyan name should be used over Son Goku and Goku, so I think that since Goku is more commonly known by Goku it should stay. Also Son Goku is in the info box anyways just like Son Gohan is in the info box for Gohan, Son Goten is in the info box for Goten, and Super Saiyan Blue is in the info box for Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Also before anyone says that Goku's Saiyan name doesn't count it does because from DBZ to DBGT Goku is called by it and I don't know if he is in DBS but I still think it should stay how it is.
- Because it is pointless since both names are on the article anyways. Apparently you didn't read everything I said so if you all want to go by the MoS then the page name should be either Goku or Kakarot but it should stay Goku since he is most commonly known as Goku.
- The MoS clearly states The title of articles about individual characters should be named by which the character was most commonly known which means since Goku is more commonly known in English as Goku that is what the name of the page should be, but with him be called Kakarot by his brother, Nappa, and Vegeta then the rest of the MoS comes into effect which means since Kakarot is used later then that is what the article should be named so either way Son Goku is out, for one Goku in English is more commonly known as just Goku and for two Kakarot is used later so he becomes known by both Goku and Kakarot.
So many things go against the Manual of Style but this one thing you want to follow it. It doesn't matter if Goku is more commonly used. Using Son Goku doesn't change that and plus it the same as the Japanese. SSGKakarotto (talk) 01:58, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Yes it does matter if Goku is what he is most commonly known by. Also are you wanting to make this wiki like Dragon Universe Wikia.
- Like the MoS states we use the name that a character is most commonly known by which means Goku or after Raditz shows up Kakarot (only because Goku actually starts getting called Kakarot a lot by other Saiyans). I don't think we should actually use DBZKai as source since it is pretty much just a re-make of DBZ minus the filler and question if I remember correctly didn't DBZKai use Goku more then Son Goku? Also the reason I asked if you was wanting to make this wiki like Dragon Universe Wikia is because of where you have said twice now if I am correct that it the same as the Japanese and the ones that started DUW (Dragon Universe Wikia) wanted the names changed and a canon and non-canon section, but the main reason is about the name change.
- Dude, they're literally not going to continuously say "Son Goku", "Son Goku" the entire show because old fans would get confused. We don't have to do the same on the wiki either. "I don't think we should actually use DBZKai as source since it is pretty much just a re-make of DBZ minus the filler..." What does the content of Kai have to do with anything? We're discussing about a character's name. I'm not trying to mke the wiki like or similar to Dragon Universe, splitting the pages between canon. I just want the page name of Goku changed to Son Goku. That's my only request. (Well, not only) SSGKakarotto (talk) 02:34, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Well sorry but if I remember correct in the anime in English they never said Son Goku except probably in DBZKai. You are the one who brought DBZKai up not me I was stating the fact that nothing is really different in it and DBZ. Well I don't because Goku is more known by Goku then Son Goku and if we change it to Son Goku then it will be going against the MoS.
I only mentioned Kai because Son Goku is only used in Kai. I wouldn't have mentioned it if it didn't have ny relevance. Adding Son to the page will not take away that Goku is still part of it SSGKakarotto (talk) 02:54, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Bottom line is that Son Goku is not what Goku is most commonly known by and both names are already in his article.
On the Naruto Wiki, Naruto Uumaki is commonly known as Naruto. Tokyo Ghoul, Ken Kaneki is commonly known as Kaneki. In One Piece, Moneky D. Luffy is commonly known as Luffy but they all are the page name of their page. Son Goku is his full name and I think it should be used for the page name. SSGKakarotto (talk) 03:04, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Well I don't think it should and we are not like those wikia's which now you are really making me think when it comes to other wikia's you want us to be like them. The MoS is what we have to follow besides the rules and guidelines and as I have clearly stated before it says right in the first sentence that the name for the article dealing with a character is for it to be the name they are most commonly known by which means Goku over Son Goku.
- Well I don't think you get it either because the MoS is part of the law for editing here, but I do get it but what you need to understand is we do stuff differently then the other anime/manga wikia's. Why do you think Son Goku should be used over Goku and don't say because DBZKai mentions it or because it is Goku's full name or that it is the same as the Japanese?
I don't see a problem with just using "Son Goku" as his page title, it's his full name and we will refer to him as just "Goku" on every other occasion anyway.--Neffyarious (talk) 05:32, April 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Both Goku and Son Goku would be consistent with most media. Goku is consistent with more media. Kakarot is good too, but not as useful since it's rarely used. The MoS says use the full name and use the most common name, which is a bit of a contradiction in this case. Wikipedia went with Goku, presumably since that's the immensely iconic name of the main character of the series that is used 90% of the time in English. I recommend we do the same, for the same reason. Remember we want the site to be easy to use for the vast majority of readers, not catered to the minority of "super-fans" like us.
- On something of a tangent "So many things go against the Manual of Style but this one thing you want to follow it. It doesn't matter if Goku is more commonly used" and "Why don't you want the name changed to Son Goku? It won't hurt you" are terrible arguments. Come on SSGKakarotto, you're better than that. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:02, April 30, 2016 (UTC)
- I don't know if someone here already said (and I don't really want to read all this) but the name should stay as Goku. Reasons being this is an English wiki and Son Goku isn't used as much as Goku. Second, Goku refers to himself as Goku even after learning his birth name was Kakarot. Which I think is more than plenty reason to just leave Goku. --Riptoze 06:22, May 1, 2016 (UTC)
- If Kai came out as the first dub for Dragon Ball, then it could have more leverage with renaming. Even then I think Goku said "son goku" once I believe(?). Otherwise it was still Goku for the most part. It's also worth noting that most video games use the name "Goku" as well. If there's games in North America that use "son goku" then I'm not sure about that. Son goku is still on the page, so it's not like we're trying to hide the fact it exists. It's just a matter of what is more recognized/used in English.
- One more thing that SSGKakarotto mentioned above that I think is important. He said "Dude, they're literally not going to continuously say "Son Goku", "Son Goku" the entire show because old fans would get confused". That's another precise reason why Goku should stay. Why use a less common name in English to confuse those viewers? --Riptoze 10:02, May 1, 2016 (UTC)
A tv show is different from a wiki. Think about, do you normally call someone by their given name or surname all the time? The answer is given name. But that doesn't mean you don't have a surname. SSGKakarotto (talk) 12:42, May 2, 2016 (UTC)
- I still agree with Ripto22475 that Goku is used a lot more than Son Goku and in a lot more media. Both are correct but one is much, much more common in licensed media. Either way the article says his surname is Son, but we don't need Son in the article title. It might even be confusing for casual readers. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 00:57, May 3, 2016 (UTC)
How was Goku not part of the Frieza Force? He was born on Planet Vegeta, which was part of the Frieza Force and wore Saiyan Armor. Have you guys read Jaco the Galactic Patrolman? I'm pretty sure you haven't SSGKakarotto (talk) 02:13, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
- That's a good question and an interesting one to ponder. When Raditz says to Goku at their first meeting, that they send out their warriors (and babies for weaker lifeforms) to exterminate inhabitants of planets to sell for a high price, it can be argued that he was referring to Frieza's forces (though it's not clarified who). On the flip side, Raditz was explaining Goku about their heritage. So it also can be argued Radtiz was implying this was something Saiyans did on their own, without any connection to Frieza. The Saiyan army did exist even under Frieza's control, so that is worth adding in too. I don't think saying Goku was part of Frieza's forces is an accurate statement though. Not only did Goku not complete his mission, but also Frieza was under the impression that only three Saiyans survived whole genocide. He wasn't even aware Goku went to earth. If Frieza was involved in wanting to sell earth, then he would not of waited 18+ years for Goku to complete it. Other than the three surviving Saiyans Frieza thought was alive, he wanted nothing else to do with the Saiyan race and by killing nearly all of them, he also removed them being affiliated with his forces. --Riptoze 03:17, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
The thing is Goku was born under the Saiyan Army (not a real thing) so he was part of the Frieza Force, but not now. In Jaco, he was wearing Battle Armor, that's the thing. Saiyans or anyone under the Frieza's control wear that armor SSGKakarotto (talk) 03:21, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
- He was born while the Saiyans were under control of Frieza, but I don't know if that officially makes him a member of Frieza's forces. If it did, then Frieza would of known about the mission Goku had to earth (or even someone else within Frieza's forces other than the Saiyans that would of reported it to Frieza eventually). --Riptoze 03:31, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
- Not entirely true Vegeta wore Battle armor after he arrived on Namek and he was done with being told what to do by Frieza, also Krillin and Gohan wore it on Namek but they weren't part of Frieza's army. Goku, Future Trunks, Vegeta, and Gohan wore Battle armor in the Perfect Cell and Cell Games Sagas, so if we go by your logic everyone I just mentioned would be part of the Frieza Force, which they are not because well Future Trunks's battle armor was made by his mother with the others, Gohan and Krillin when on Namek needed new clothes, Vegeta from the time he arrived on Namek till Frieza killed him and he was revived and transported to Earth he rebelled against Frieza, and Goku (I don't consider Dragon Ball Minus as part of the Dragon Ball timeline because it screwed a lot up) if we go by the everything that was aid first then he never wore Saiyan/Battle armor till the Perfect Cell Saga. This message is not to you Ripto.
@Ripto, you don't even make sense. Goku was born under Frieza's rule so he was officially part of the army. Frieza's army doesn't just consist of Saiyans so he wouldn't keep up with everything. Plus with Jaco, Goku was noy sent to Eath because of a mission. He was sent to Earth secretly SSGKakarotto (talk) 04:15, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
- I say no Goku wasn't part of Frieza Force if you go by DBM (I don't care if it is part of the official timeline, even though technically speaking their is no official timeline because of the fact that no one who has any say in what is canon or not has used the words canon and non-canon). I say that because he had never fought or done anything for Frieza, and technically he was born under the Saiyan Army (which in the Funi dub is a thing) which was a branch of the Frieza Force but if we go by what was stated before DBM (which I am) Goku wasn't old enough to dress himself or to walk when he was sent to earth and the Saiyans had started to rebel against Frieza before he was sent to Earth.
It doesn't matter. We add allthe media of Dragon Ball, regarding Gt, Super, Jaco, video games, etc. Also, it does not matter if Goku did not do anything. You also said he was born under the Saiyan Army. That is a Funimation term and if that applies (though it does not), then King Vegeta amd Vegeta aren't part of the Frieza Force so your claims are not valid. SSGKakarotto (talk)
- There's nothing to really add regarding Goku being a part of Frieza's forces. There's no facts with it, other than saying that 'Goku was born a Saiyan who were under control of Frieza', and that doesn't seem necessary. Like Goku20 said, he didn't do any work for Frieza nor did Frieza even know Goku existed. King Vegeta and Vegeta did work under Frieza (as both invaded planets and killed in Frieza's name). There is a mention of a military of Saiyans as Nappa said he was the highest ranking general. --Riptoze 04:21, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
- I see kind of where you're going with your point (and I think it's an interesting topic), but Goku wasn't a member of Frieza's army. I think you're trying to say because Goku was a Saiyan (and Saiyans were under control of Frieza at the time) that makes Goku a member of Frieza's forces. Let's remember that there are no "baby" members in Frieza's organization. So Goku being a baby wouldn't exactly make him a soldier in Frieza's group.--Riptoze 04:27, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
In most media, Goku was sent to Earth as a baby and he had a mussion to destroy Earth. Goku was actually documented as a member as seen in Bardock the father of Goku SSGKakarotto (talk) 04:30, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
- We shouldn't be piecing together unnecessary guesses to try and jam it into an article. We don't have the info, so it shouldn't be in the article. Especially in cases like this where not only is it fans piecing things together on our own, but it's controversial even among fans. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:20, May 8, 2016 (UTC)
Tabber Manga Image
The tabber is a new feature we're trying out. The tabber allows readers to switch the main infobox image of an article (which are usually anime screenshots) with a manga image. For an example, check the Super Saiyan page. Right under the name displayed on the infobox, there are two buttons. One says "Anime" and the other says "Manga". Try clicking the "Manga" button. This will switch the previous anime image with a manga image. Clicking "Anime" will switch the image back. While it's not extremely fancy, it's a neat little feature that many other wikis use and it could be utilized here as well. Please keep in mind this is a testing session, so if we run into major problems, we can easily revert the pages back. Also note that this feature doesn't work on mobile, so the anime image will always be displayed by default. While the tabber is only on smaller pages right now, I thought it's time to try them out on some of the main pages. Which brings me to my question: does anyone happen to have a colored, full body, manga image of Goku in his base form? -- • • 17:31, May 15, 2016 (UTC)
Why is there a need to mention the Superman vs Goku controversy and wizard magazine/poll in this page?
It just comes off as unprofessional and biased. The Wizard Magazine is not an official source for anything and is badly researched. Such a petty, fanboy-ish thing has no place being mentioned in a professional article about Goku. What's even the point? LoudCloud (talk) 23:54, May 29, 2016 (UTC)
- We are merely stating facts of two significant real-life events related to the character of Goku. We have not taken a stance, only pointed out real things that happened and are still talked about today. The bias would be us choosing to pretend it didn't happen and that no one cares. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 16:36, May 30, 2016 (UTC)
Alright, then include Screwattack's Death Battle, how Superman won and how it was criticised by upset Goku fans since it's pointing out "real things that happened and are still talked about today". Otherwise it would be biased "choosing to pretend it didn't happen and that no one cares". LoudCloud (talk) 19:14, May 30, 2016 (UTC)
Screwattack's video was a single opinion by a youtube channel, while the Wizard Magazine poll is a popular poll that "sparked" the controversy itself and got people arguing about Goku vs Superman. If we include Screwattack's (poorly researched) analysis, then not include the other thousands of videos on the subject? -- • • 19:41, May 30, 2016 (UTC)
- I have to agree that a fan poll is better data than a single YouTuber's video, even when that YouTuber is sponsored by a popular channel. Comicon is the right place to get such data, if it must be acquired, since it would host DC and manga fans who might be considered close to experts. When brought to the purest level, it is the difference between saying "a bunch of people who are the right people to decide voted and decided result X" vs. "this one guy says result Y". The Wiki has not made the claim that Superman would beat Goku or vice versa, we're only pointing out a real life event some some find interesting. One random YouTuber's video simply has no weight whatsoever. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:05, June 1, 2016 (UTC)
- That "One random Youtube's video" was made by a team (similar to the Wizard article) and took the research and opinions from Kazenshuu, Superman Homepage, the Dao of Dragonball, Superman Supersite and Team Fourstar. AKA "DC and manga fans who might be considred close to experts". The Wizard article is also badly researched and downright lies about certain things. But it's not about being right or wrong anyway, it's about using certain examples and wording that paints a certain fanboy bias when it could just be summed up as "There's a common modern debate over who would win in a fight; Goku or Superman, with media such as the Wizard magazine and Screwattack's Death Battle offering outcomes that resulted in strong reactions from both sides.". LoudCloud (talk) 23:22, June 1, 2016 (UTC)
- The only results of this that would be on the articles would be those made by the people who owns the characters, like DC and toei because that would be offical. Sadly after many years both of them have failed to notice this. 0551E80Y (talk) 23:59, June 1, 2016 (UTC)
- Yep, fans sites, run by many fans. Similar to the Wizard Magazine and the polls mentioned on the page. The Wizard Magazine is also widely inaccurate just like the Death Battle. They're pretty much equal in terms of unofficial input by fans of the series and getting information wrong. So either change it or add them both. LoudCloud (talk) 02:59, June 3, 2016 (UTC)
- Kanzenshuu is one guy. ComicCon is many people. If you claim these are equal quantities you are deliberately ignoring facts. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 03:08, June 4, 2016 (UTC)
- Alright, this is also a poll done by many people, comic and manga fans. It fits your criteria so just add it to the page and call it a day! http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/goku-vs-superman-who-s-a-better-hero-1450714/ LoudCloud (talk) 17:14, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
That user-created blog asks the readers: "now that BDZ:BotG is out goku is now unquestionably more powerful then superman and would effortlessly curbstomp him, even easier then he would have before.
my question is...
who is the better hero? goku, who protects the earth from gods or superman, a guy in spandex who only protects a city from crazy men in colorful outfits?"
Do I really have to explain why this is not encyclopedic? Your motive is not to make the site better or to be fair: you are mad that the only nearly encyclopedic source, and probably the best we can do in this case, did not pick your choice. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:48, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
I know there have been many conversations before on this topic but I feel now is a good time doing so. In Dragon Ball Super, with the new Future Trunks arc, a new character has been introduced with the name "Goku Black". His name is similar to Goku's. We all know Goku's name is bot just Goku, it's Son Goku. With Goku Black having Goku first (for some reason but it's his name) I think it could cause confusion for the community and for the ones who search for Goku but end up on Goku Black. Using Son Goku would make it eaiser for the viewer to find the original Goku and it lined up with the Japanese and both hardcore fans could be happy and casuals (because they won't get confused). — 100x Big Bang
- As stated before. Goku is the most common and recognized name among English. You've asked this before. No matter who's account you use, the answer will still be the same. --Riptoze 01:32, June 5, 2016 (UTC)
- If you search Goku, Goku Black doesn't even show up in the results unless you hit enter and even then their are 15 other results in between Goku and Goku Black. I am pretty sure no one will get confused.
This is a really thinly veiled attempt at changing the name, honestly. It's very hard to confuse "Goku Black/Black Goku" with "Goku", especially because "Goku" is literally the first result found when searching "Goku". Maybe add a small disclaimer on the top of the page (like the Justin Chatwin one on Goku's page), but changing a popular name to something way less common is not a very good idea. -- • • 22:57, June 6, 2016 (UTC)
- We also don't know the characters actual name yet. The "evil version of Goku" might be named Stanley for all we know. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:10, June 9, 2016 (UTC)
Three forms of Goku must be added: Saiyan Beyond God Super Saiyan, Saiyan Beyond God Super Saiyan 2, and Saiyan Beyond God Super Saiyan 3. Goku uses all three against Future Trunks, and he uses some of them against Demon God Demigra. If Saiyan Beyond God is a form, then so are the SS variants, each much more powerful than a regular SS. As proof, consider SS Gohan vs First Form Frieza post training. Saiyan Beyond God Goku is stronger than even Final Form Frieza post training. Then look at Goku vs. Frost. Saiyan Beyond God keeps up for a while against Third Form Frost, but Final Form Frost would be too much for him, so he uses Saiyan Beyond God Super Saiyan. Vegeta also has used Saiyan Beyond God Super Saiyan.
Goku -> Son Goku??
No we don't. We have to use the name the Character is more commonly known by, but I undid the user's edit because of that. Also he/she didn't rename it they moved all the content to a page that had already been made but redirected to here and made this article redirect there.
Okay that makes sense because I tried to rename it myself and I kept getting errors related to that. Thanks for fixing it. It was an unnecessary edit to begin with for sure.Clutchins (talk) 17:09, July 7, 2016 (UTC)
- No problem.
Super Saiyan God Ehanced
when was a saiyan-god consider a race?Nikon23 20:38, August 15, 2016 (UTC)
This page is the longest page on the wiki with 300,000 bytes. Now that's a lot and probably takes a while to load for people with slow internet. I think we should split the page into:
- Goku (Appearance and Personality)
- Goku/Relationships (I think we should add this into the wiki. Basically what is it is you take a character like Bulma as the section titles and you describe their relationship and it will go in order from when they met)
- Goku/Biography (I think we should chnage it to History)
- Goku/Abilities and Powers (combine techniques, transformations, power including physical strength, etc.)
- Goku/Misc. (everything else like Major Battles, Video game appearances, etc.)
What do you guys think of this? Add your suggestions or thoughts on the matter. We should also do this for other pages with over 100,000 bytes or 150,000 bytes because that's a lot. Meshack (talk) 08:21, September 19, 2016 (UTC)
- "A lot" and "probably takes a while to load for people" are arbitrary. Let's not create a problem to solve one that probably doesn't exist. Navigating multiple pages to find info on one topic is a big hassle and would affect all users. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:10, September 21, 2016 (UTC)
Goku's Kid "forms" from GT are not treated as separate transformations anywhere, with the sole exception of "Kid Super Saiyan", which is treated as a separate form (GT Super Saiyan) in one game. Thus they should be removed.--Neffyarious (talk) 07:17, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
- There are many game-only forms across the articles. Kid Goku has appeared is several SS forms in games. They should be included since they meet the same standard as everything else. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 23:55, September 29, 2016 (UTC)
- But they are not treated as separate forms from the normal Super Saiyan form. Their is no need to have them as multiple sections on the page they should just be incorporated into the "Kid" form section and the above SS sections. We don't do what we do on Goku's page for any other character, so I don't see why we have to list Goku's SS forms twice. If we do then we'll have to be consistent and do it with other characters, like list them twice for Gohan (normal and Ultimate versions) and Vegeta (normal and Majin versions), and also add all of Baby Vegeta's forms to Vegeta's page.--Neffyarious (talk) 09:35, October 6, 2016 (UTC)
Well I have a problem with this even being brought up now if either one of you had such a problem with it you all should have said something before now, because the info has been on the article ever since I have been on here, but in Dragon Ball Z: Infinite World GT Goku appears only as a kid unless you transform into SS4, where as every other character the appears in every DB game I have played appear only once. The exception being Vegeta who also in DBZIW appears in his DBZ form and his GT form, so in a manner of speaking Vegeta GT and his forms minus SS4 probably should be on Vegeta. Also I think Baby Vegeta and the rest of his forms should be on Vegeta's page right along with everyone else that Baby takes control of no matter how long. I am talking about like Baby/Infected Trunks on Trunks's page and so on.
I don't know what's your problem with us bringing it up, that's kind of silly and nitpicky of us. Besides, I've only recently become a member of this wiki, so I'm obviously going to say something now that I have chance. I also haven't really noticed this problem until now, and I'm sure the same goes for Neffyarious. Do we really have to explain ourselves as to why we want to change this?
You should bring your thoughts on Vegeta and the like to their talk pages, not here, as it's mostly irrelevant. Anyways, do you agree or disagree with the change for Goku? TyphlosionX (talk) 00:11, October 7, 2016 (UTC)
Here is my problem with this being brought up now especially when the one who brought it up is an admin and has been a user since 2013 is the fact that he accepted it until now and you have been a user for almost two years and even though you didn't really notice the problem until now you still accepted it. I only mentioned about Vegeta and the others because of where Neffy brought it up. I don't agree with what he is proposing one because at least three games have Goku (GT) in them and two because if we did leave these forms on this article we wouldn't have to list all the other character's forms twice just certain ones. I really don't see how neither one of could have missed this "problem" but whatever.
Although my account has been here for two years, I was next to inactive within those two years, and only had become a fairly invested member until this year. Back then, I did not care for editing this wiki. Also, you can't really "accept" a problem when you hadn't even noticed up it until now. If you have a problem with us as individuals for bringing it up, then go to our own talk pages and attack us there. Let's stick to the topic at hand here.
I wasn't and am not attacking either one of you I am stating a fact. Actually he's suggesting the removal of Goku's kid forms which include Goku (GT) being removed and I can name off three games where Goku (GT) is treated as his own character Infinite World, Xenoverse, and Xenoverse 2 which also means that his Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 3 forms are treated differently in those three games.
1) I don't see what other intentions you had in stating that "fact," other than offense. Thus, I took it as an "attack." If you want to continue this conversation, start a topic on my talk page. I will gladly continue this seperate discussion with you there, as it's becoming mostly irrelevant here.
2) This is what Neffyarious said: "they should just be incorporated into the "Kid" form section and the above SS sections text" As I said, he wants to keep "Kid Goku," but remove the extra Super Saiyan forms. --TyphlosionX (talk) 13:13, October 7, 2016 (UTC)
- The kid SS forms are already incorporated into the kid section as subsections. All of Baby Vegeta's forms are listed separately on Baby's article. The parallel would be creation of a new article just for kid Goku, but I don't think you actually want that as your example. Gohan's SS forms after the Ultimate power up are completely different. Ultimate was a power boost after which there is no appearance change to the SS forms, no usage difference for the forms, and there is no reason to use Ultimate and SS together (unless you forget to train for years apparently). The kid form was a major change wished with Shenron, it still makes sense to use the SS forms with it and that happens very often, they look different, and most importantly they must be used differently to the point that SS3 Goku is nearly unbeatable in DBZ but kid SS3 is arguably weaker than base form kid Goku due to the drawbacks. Obviously there are good points on either side, but with the forms being different in games and the info being unique and interesting, the Kid SS subsections make a lot of sense. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 04:35, October 8, 2016 (UTC)
- Alright, I see your point, 10X. The Kid Super Saiyan forms definitely do function a little differently when compared to the regular forms. I still think the SS forms should just be briefly mentioned in the Kid Goku section, and the interesting info on the kid variations should simply be mentioned in their respective Super Saiyan sections. However, like you said, there's an argument for both sides. It admittedly may be easier to find that info if it were in the Kid Goku section. I honestly think it looks a bit "cluttered," but that could just be my OCD speaking. I'll back down for the time being. TyphlosionX (talk) 12:54, October 8, 2016 (UTC)
Goku's SSJ2 picture.
Can I, or someone else, change it with a better, full body shot? The one that's used has Kai's awful coloring and doesn't show his whole body.
- Please sign your posts so we know who is talking. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 08:06, January 28, 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks for the tip. But how do I do that to avoid future confusion? BTW, this is Rogeta234.
Add four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your messages. This automatically adds a default signature, along with the date, to the end of your posts. As for the image, feel free to replace it if you have something better in mind. — • • 15:48, January 28, 2017 (UTC)
- You beat me to it! Edit conflict haha. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 15:49, January 28, 2017 (UTC)
Goku is not a sociopath
Goku was absolutely furious to learn that Black had killed his family, even more so than when he learned his body had been stolen. He didn't even really care about that; he wanted to know what Black had done to Chi Chi and Goten. It was only upon learning that they'd been killed that he truly became enraged, to the point that he was about to pummel a (seemingly) defeated Black because of how angry he was. Even when he first turned into a Super Saiyan (triggered by Krillin's death), he wasn't that upset at his opponent. So yes, he does care about his family.
He's also not responsible for the universes being destroyed. Zen-Oh was going to do that anyway because he thought there were too many (the Great Priest even says so; watch the series since you clearly haven't). The Tournament of Power is simply an opportunity for a single universe to save itself from Zen-Oh's seemingly random decision. So no, he doesn't feel guilty, because he's not guilty.
I agree, the text is so biased that makes Goku look like a villain, that, and the personality section is so long that makes it harder to fix it.13:48, March 23, 2017 (UTC)
Agreed as well (even though I am a bit disgusted that he apparently smiled about not being present when Gohan was born). Goku may have his flaws, but he's certainly not a sociopath. A sociopath would not beat the crap out of two gods (one of whom stole his body) upon learning that one of them had outright murdered his wife and youngest son immediately after stealing his body and killing him even while severely wounded, and he wouldn't become Super Saiyan due to a tyrant after killing his best friend also proceeding to state his intentions of killing Gohan next. You want a REAL sociopath? Try Zen-Oh, who not only came up with the disgusting Tournament of Power in the first place, and for something as petty as there being too many universes, but was also perfectly willing to pin the blame on Goku for creating the tournament and potentially getting him killed by various members of the universe [all of whom were very understandably angry with Goku for the event] even when Goku's only real role in the tournament was merely reminding him and Zen-Oh had far more reasons to be responsible for the disaster. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 19:22, March 23, 2017 (UTC)
Goku's sense of family
I have a big problem with Toriyama's statement that Goku does not possess the same sense of family as Gohan and the others. The only character he's beaten into (apparent) submission and then attacked (or rather, attempted to attack) after their defeat was Goku Black, and only as a direct result of Black telling him he'd killed his wife and son. Frieza killed Krillin, not to mention ordering every Namekian to be killed, yet Goku still spared his life on two separate occasions. Multiple characters have attempted to kill him over the course of the series, but if they're beaten into submission, he stops his assault. Vegeta, the Ginyu Force, Frieza, and so on - all of them defeated, but never killed (not including the time when Whis turned back time, obviously, because Goku had still spared Frieza the first time), despite their evil deeds.
Black was the first and only character thus far that Goku was so furious at that he actually attacked them after having seemingly defeated them, because he'd killed his wife and son. If that doesn't show a strong sense of family; if that doesn't show that Goku values the lives and general well-being of his family above his friends, I don't know what does. I think Toriyama may have intended for Goku to not have a strong sense of family, but he failed at conveying that in his writing. These are not the actions of someone who thinks of and treats his family as mere friends.
- To be fair regarding Frieza, him surviving had not been intended by Goku. In fact, he initially opted to just leave him to die on Namek, but ultimately decided against it. And when Frieza tried to shoot him from behind, he then used the Angry Kamehameha to seemingly kill him (not to mention in the Japanese version, the specific trigger for Goku turning Super Saiyan was not just Krillin's death, but also Frieza proceeding to shamelessly threaten Gohan next). But yes, he definitely does care about family a bit more than his friends, despite what Toriyama claimed (and it's actually pretty sad that Goku's own creator would not even know how Goku is like). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:36, May 4, 2017 (UTC)
- Good memory. I forgot that Goku was initially going to let Frieza die on Namek, and only afterward (almost as an afterthought, if you ask me) decided against it. Regardless, Goku has always shown extreme reluctance in killing others, and never attacked someone who was already beaten - until Black killed his wife and son.
- As for Toriyama, like I said, it may be a simple case of him not portraying Goku the way he intended. He may think he portrayed him that way, and I have no doubt he wanted to, but he ultimately failed to do so.
- Orion (T-B-C) 12:27, May 4, 2017 (UTC)
- An even bigger case is, Goku went to rescue Gohan after Raditz kidnapped him. He ended up sacrificing his life to stop Raditz from killing Gohan. He then rushed the nimbus under Gohan to save him from being crushed by Nappa. He later saved gohan from death by healing his broken neck with a senzu bean on Namek. Mere examples in the original manga of Goku saving and protecting those he loves.0551E80Y (talk) 13:17, May 4, 2017 (UTC)
I don't remember any statement saying that the reason for Goku attacking Black while he was down was that Black killed his family. What's more likely is that Goku learned his lesson after Frieza and company, or that he deemed Black too dangerous to leave alive. To be honest, we don't know Goku's inner thoughts on this matter. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 01:29, May 5, 2017 (UTC)
We could use logic and common sense. Black killed nearly everyone on Future Trunks's world, stole his body, tried to kill him multiple times, tried to kill Vegeta multiple times, tried to kill Future Trunks multiple times, and so on, but it wasn't until Goku heard that he'd also killed his wife and son that he truly flipped out. What does that tell you?
- Well since what you said didn't add any new licensed content, my conclusion above is still the only one that we can make using "logic and common sense" as you suggest. Speculating and jumping to conclusions not suggested by the facts wouldn't be appropriate for an encyclopedic website such as this one. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 19:17, May 7, 2017 (UTC)
Can we please separate the "Abilities" box, which combines his techniques, fusions and transformations, back into their original sections? It's unnecessary, less visually appealing and ruins the links for "Forms and transformations" and "Fusions" in the contents box. ~~ IST O L E T H E P I ES π 18:52, August 26, 2017 (UTC)
I say we leave it I do agree that it is less visually appealing but that doesn't matter. I clicked on a few of the links and it doesn't ruin them so I don't know what browser you are using, so try a different browser. Other than how it looks visually I don't see a problem with it.
I am also using Chrome and I don't have the problem you are so it isn't caused by the ability box.
- Maybe you should both post screenshots to understand what you are seeing. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 22:15, August 28, 2017 (UTC)
April 19th - Official Source?
- If you mean his birthday, I think it's been changed to April 16.Observer Supreme 04:13, December 21, 2017 (UTC)
Goku's infobox picture
Can we change Goku's infobox picture the anime one it looks like it is from the manga instead of the anime.
I edited the article but didn't publish the edit and added one then viewed what it would look like and done it again and they both look better then the current one.
- I see one new pic, plus the old one. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:00, September 10, 2017 (UTC)
If you are talking about in the slideshow they are both new, but if you are talking about the infobox I didn't want to change the manga image just the Anime.
- I like how the current one shows all of Goku's hair. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 05:44, September 11, 2017 (UTC)
None of the 3 show all of Goku's hair the one that was previously in the Anime tab in the infobox shows more, but it also looks like it is from the colored version of the manga. If you are saying you like the current infobox anime image I do to.
Either of the images I suggested will do but the now current one looks like it is from the colored version of the manga and you can clearly see some small blocks in it in areas of Goku's gi. I also figured to keep it DBZ but I made two suggestions so we have two possibaleites for the anime tab of the infobox, plus the DBZ one in the slideshow is from the same saga and only shortly before the current one.
My problem with the current one is that it looks like it is from the colored version of the manga instead of the anime, which begs the question from anyone who hasn't seen the anime why are they using an image from the colored version of the manga for the anime tab.
- No look at the MoS, it doesn't matter what you and other fans of Dragon Ball say is or isn't canon until Toriyama or Toei says what is and isn't canon we can't do that.
- They not - and Toriyama did not say a single word about how canon GT is.--Date 07:58, September 10, 2017 (UTC)
This is the correct order of Goku's battles in the Other World Tournament:
- Goku vs. Caterpy (Anime only)
- Goku vs. Arqua (Anime only)
- Goku vs. Maraikoh (Anime only)
- Goku (Base/Super Saiyan) vs. Pikkon (Anime only)
"In an erased timeline (...)" - why is this timeline erased? Didn't it exists along with Cell's and Trunks's timelines? Did Toriyama screw up again?BH Ouji (talk) 06:10, December 2, 2017 (UTC) Mosticochi (talk) 20:46, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
Gokus stats are currently wrong
Gokus stats are wrong. Should be 175cm and 62kg ccording to the source being cited (Super Exciting Guide). It should be changed to 5'8 and 137 pounds. Nowhere is Goku listed as 178 cm in ny kind of official source. Mosticochi (talk) 20:45, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
- Technically, it is 5'9" according to the metric to imperial system converter, but I digress. There is one user that is changing these measurements without citing any more recent reference. I'm trying to sort that out right now. Kamikaze839 21:07, January 16, 2018 (UTC)
About Goku's Speedy dub VA
Seriously, when was that cast list is confirmed when it's only said by ONE person in a YOUTUBE comment, how is this acceptable? All Kanzenshuu did was someone posting that YT comment in the topic and discuss if that source was true or not (Which was this topic). I will like to see if there's a source or someone other than that guy can proving the cast list was true, but until then we shouldn't put any Speedy dub VA's name in character page. DragonEmeperor, if you or anyone else have any source that can confirm the Speedy dub cast list is true (Other than that Kanzenshuu topic that I post here), then I will keep slience and apologoze to you all. --GODLIKEUndertaker (talk) 04:08, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
- I tried looking for sources but it wasn't easy for those VAs. DragonEmeperor (talk) 04:24, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
- Which is why I tried to remove the VA (But you undo my edit) and I opened this topic, this is like saying Piccolo is voiced by Ed Marcus in the AB Groupe dub but we have no source to confirm it (We thought it is until they revealed Paul Bandey is the one who voice Piccolo). Prehaps, if we really need to putting the cast list, we can put the cast list in the Speedy dub page with a small note like "The cast list is yet to be confirmed", until we can finally confirmed these cast list is legit and put it in character pages. --GODLIKEUndertaker (talk) 04:42, February 11, 2018 (UTC)
Trivia section needs work
This article's trivia section needs some substantial editing. I would edit it myself, but I can already foresee this being disputed, so I'll lay out the issues I see in this section in hopes of getting some pre-emptive agreement:
- Information better suited to body: There's just a lot of stuff that can easily slot in to existing sections. For one, the note about Goku as an ambassador for the Tokyo Olympics is important enough to belong in reception, as it reflects his widespread popularity and impact, instead of tucked away in trivia. For two, the note about Nozawa and Schemmel lending their voice to a game's version of Sun Wukong is definitely a homage, and likewise belongs in the reception section. For three, the bit about Goku's once-status as a celebrity is a natural inclusion in the biography, since it's a result of his victories of Piccolos King and Junior.
- Information already in body: There's a whole paragraph that goes over Goku's voice actors across multiple dubs. This is already covered in the separate, dedicated voice actors section, so there's no need to mention it again.
- Stuff that just doesn't belong at all: After the info on Sun Wukong, there's a mention of how "there have been many other characters named after the Japanese reading of Sun Wukong", with Naruto listed as an example. A paragraph on the differing transliterations of "Goku" gets sidetracked first into a kana lesson, and then into how one of them may be misread. There's speculation about how one VA's casting "might mean he is the first Filipino to voice him". These are tangentially related, verging on speculation or both, and simply do not belong on the page for Goku.
Superman comparison, in particular, needs a lot of editing. To be clear, I'm not disputing that there is a meaningful comparison to be drawn here; what I'm saying is that that several of the comparisons given aren't actually good comparisons. When Goku and Superman already have several very specific overlaps, there's no need to muddy it with weaker ones. For instance:
- Completely superficial comparisons: The section notes that both Goku and Superman "have allies with pointy ears and grim attitudes who are extremely intelligent: Piccolo for Goku, and Batman for Superman." This is a remarkably strained comparison, and one that falls apart should one think about their relationships and dynamics, role, ability or even just design that it cannot be said to be a meaningful point of comparison. There are also comparisons of Frieza to Brainiac, and Krillin to Jimmy Olsen that not quite as bad, but still only work from a limited perspective.
- Broad comparisons: Things like how they "were both killed by powerful villains" and "were both revived"; have evil counterparts; have defeated strong foes; or "are both very powerful fighters" are all just common story elements in action/fantasy stories. Unless these can be made more specific, they should be cut.
- Comparisons that lose track of themselves: One bullet point is that "They also have their weaknesses (Goku's weakness is his tail (removed), his trypanophobia (fear of needles) and later his desire for fair but challenging fights, and Superman's is Kryptonite, red sun light and magic)." There's an actual point of comparison in here: both Goku and Superman have an Achilles heel (Goku's tail, Superman's Kryptonite), but it gets lost among the fluff.
- Straight-up Superman trivia: After noting that both have human love interests, there's an aside that "For a time in the New 52, Superman has had a relationship with Wonder Woman."; in noting their half-human sons, it quickly diverges into Superman's "a father-son relationship with a partial clone" and "adopted a full blooded Kryptonian child". These aren't relevant to Goku, the actual subject of the page, and to mention them only makes the point of comparison weaker.
It's closing in on a month since I posted this and nobody's said anything, so I'm going to just go ahead with these changes (in stages, starting with— I hope— the most agreeable). I'm not taking silence as agreement, but I think I've given ample time for people to raise concerns or objections to what I've laid out. If there are any issues now, feel free to voice them here. — Charchetype (talk) 17:36, May 9, 2018 (UTC)
You arent the only one who thinks that the Superman trivia is irrelevant to the subject of the article (Goku). There may very well be other superheroes who have similar backstories to Goku's. I will actually do research on that shortly. Singling out Superman by providing information that many people who are fans of either (or both) Goku and Superman would already know by comparing their origins is somewhat pointless, but it's trivia nonetheless. However, if there are indeed other heroes, or even antagonists, who have similar origins to Goku, then all of the trivia regarding Superman makes this section of GOKU'S trivia seem more like Superman's own trivia section. Just my two cents. It is still trivia, however if there are others who have similar origins to Goku as I previously mentioned, that info should be included or Superman's taken out. I also agree that some of the information in the trivia section is redundant and completely irrelevant to Goku.Faiquan (talk) 18:52, May 9, 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not a fan of trivia that's just comparing two characters, but I know the Superman comparison is much larger than this one site, so I've been reluctant to cut it entirely. But you raise a good point. Perhaps it could changed so that, rather than have the comparison as trivia, it's instead a paragraph under "Reception" mentioning that many people have noted similarities between the two? — Charchetype (talk) 21:03, May 9, 2018 (UTC)
New broly movie trailer
Makes Dragon Ball Minus anime canon as well, meaning they retconned his original anime age and he was 3 upon arriving to earth. His infobox needs to reflect that, and his old birthdate of 737 needs to be moved to the trivia box. FlatZone (talk) 16:29, October 4, 2018 (UTC)
Again with this "canon" nonsense... The birthdates have references for a reason - they come from different source materials. That's the way it should remain on an unbiased wiki.
It's become a mess.
This page, along with others were all a lot more straight forward when you just had Dragon Ball Super -> God of Destruction Beerus Saga -> Golden Frieza Saga -> Universe 6 Saga.
For whatever reason you've now got the Dragon Ball Super -> God of the Universe Saga (which is labelled under Dragon Ball Z anyway) -> Battle of Gods -> Resurrection F (no mention of the Super Sagas in the contents) -> Universe 6 saga.
If it wasn't already bad enough when we had "In the anime" and "In the manga", we now have "In the movie" as well. This has just made it more messy and confusing than it was before. It was simple and straight forward before and the films were just in the film section. Now the films and the series have just been squashed together.
Regardless of they had direct input in the plot by Toriyama or not. The films are films and should be focused on in the film section. It has become a big mess. 0551E80Y (talk) 13:03, January 14, 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah I can see the idea behind why it was done. It's "canon" so I suppose it was decided to be put in the main biography unlike the movies but it's made it beyond confusing because the whole section for that storyline keeps changing back and forth to "In the movie...", "In the anime...", "In the movie...", "In the anime...'
- That's just a mess where it's been clumped together and now doesn't make for a comprehensive movie or anime description.
- If the Broly movie gets to stay there then that's one thing because there's no other version of it yet but the rest should go back to how it was before.Bullza (talk) 15:29, January 14, 2019 (UTC)
Films are films and should go in the films section, regardless what anyone's headcanon is.
Actually it was 10X who made the decision a couple of years ago, saying having the saga and film versions separate was redundant. I've just been one of the few people whose kept up with implementing it. This discussion should be on the Manual of Style talk btw. --Neffyarious (talk) 20:06, January 14, 2019 (UTC)
- I'll take it over to the MoS but it being part of the original story or not, it's a mess and it being simple to read for people should come first. Intertwining the series and the movie into the section just makes it hard to follow.Bullza (talk) 23:42, January 14, 2019 (UTC)
No Neff, I’m all for films being in the films section. I don’t recall what opinions everyone had years ago, but what makes sense now is more relevant. Also, I don’t just make decisions. If I did we wouldn’t have 2 Broly pages. I moderate community discussions and seek consensus, adding my own arguments into the discussion when appropriate. -- 10X.Ka.me.ha.me.ha.....talk.....contrib. 02:00, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
- I forgot to make a post on the MoS page, not sure if it's worth it now all the admins are here already. Right so I propose that we go back to how it was, we have it be the God of Destruction Beerus and Golden Frieza saga, we give the description for the series. Battle of Gods and Resurrection F go back in the Film section and because the story is largely similar we just trim the information down to be more to the point, more brief than was given for the series.
- What would people think about that? I think it'd be easier to follow that way.Bullza (talk) 09:40, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
I second that Bullza because like some of the rest of you I see DBZ: BoG and R'F' as belonging in the films section instead of the manga and anime section.
Would that apply to every film, regardless of headcanons? If so, I agree.
And do we do the same with Broly as well? Obviously it's a movie, it would be consistent to treat it the same and put it in the Film section. I ask though because I made this section because of the problem of mixing the series and the movie into one messy section on the biography. That's not a problem that Broly has (for now) as there's only the one version and it's obviously supposed to be set in between the Tournament of Power and the Galactic Patrol saga but as I said them you'd be treating that movie differently from the rest.Bullza (talk) 17:55, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
A film is a film.
Going by what all of us who have gave their opinions I say yes we are.
- I suppose it would but does that even count as a film? It's a OVA I suppose, the Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans is also but that's put in a different section. I'd have said that was harmless enough to be left where it was as just an interlude between sagas but other people can decide on that.Bullza (talk) 23:50, January 15, 2019 (UTC)
- But, isn't consider to be part of the main story. DragonEmeperor (talk) 19:07, January 16, 2019 (UTC)
Future Trunks saga, etc
@DragonEmeperor I see the adjustments you're making and most of them I agree with but I hope you get around to using what I wrote for the Goku vs Fused Zamasu manga fight. A problem I noticed is now there are paragraphs where it's uncertain if it's talking about the manga or the anime, like the part about the Mafuba. Ahawowow (talk) 00:21, February 9, 2019 (UTC)