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Forum Why can't Ultimate Gohan go ssj?

[[Category:{{{1}}}|Why can't Ultimate Gohan go ssj?]]

i remember that he didn't use it in the fight against Buu, but i don't remember anyone ever specifically saying that he couldn't. in fact, i seem to recall old kai telling him that he could just before he went back to earth! so why is it that people keep saying that GT is stupid because he goes ssj in it? i get that the powers are pretty inconsistant, but if you actually think about some of the power levels, you see that that's true for the entire series!!!!!!!!! what i think is that the old kaer up raised his base-power, therefore it was harder to access ssj. i dunno, just a thought.

Rahsaan woods edit

This is my first time posting so I don't know if this the right way to do it. Also I am using my phone so if I misspell some words that is the reason why. So forgive me grammar police.

When it comes dragon ball i only read the manga and watch the Japanese subtitles. And this is what I remember the elder kai or the kaioshin from 15 generation back saying that Gohan can turn into a super saiyan but it wouldn't change his power level. He is at his max so turning ssj is a waist of time. That why a lot of fans say GT contradicted dbz, because turning ssj would be a waist of time.

The Real Truth

First off, let's stop calling him "Mystic Gohan" or his "Mystic Form", that is just something that American fans came up with and it's horrible. If you ever played Dragon Ball Final Bout for Playstation, his name is "Chou Gohan" which mean "Super Gohan" but Ultimate Gohan is the next best thing so if anyone on here wants their opinion to be believed please use the right names.

Gohan could go super saiyan and super saiyan 2, but they would be weaker than his Ultimate Form. It's kinda like how ( I know how we all hate dbgt lol but hear me out) kid goku usually goes from base form straight to SS4. I don't ever remember seeing him power up from a SS form into SS4 (expect from the japanese intro but that doesn't count lol). So Gohan has 2 options like kid goku did.

Base Form -> SS1, SS2 or Base Form -> Ultimate. Goku had Base Form -> SS1,2,3 or Base Form -> SS4

PS. Stop listening to everything they say in the english version because they throw in extra words that they didn't say in the original manga or show. Goku did say that Gohan was stronger than he ever was as a super saiyan in the manga but when Buu absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo, he never told Gohan to go Super Saiyan or raise his power like he did in the english version. It was just made up like a lot of english conversations in the english DBZ. Thats why I rewatched all of DBZ and Kai in Japanese for all my answers lol

You're thinking of what he told Goku...

...before he went to fuse with Gohan (Vegeta)

As for transforming into a Super Saiyan, no he can't. The Old Kai gave Gohan the ability to access the power from his Super Saiyan forms without wasting the energy to transform. Essentially he can power up to Super Saiyan 3 without wasting the energy to transform, or the strain of maintaining that form.

Super Saiyan 3 was intended to be the last transformation, and this would have been a way to maximize that power. Unfortunately DBGT, decided to add another transformation making Gohan's power up inconsistent. Thus it was no surprise when GT ignored the power up entirely.

He can go ssj.

He just won't look different it's a powerup. When Gohan finished the training with old kai, Kai told him to just "do the super saiyan thing" when Gohan does this his eyes turn green like a super saiyan (probably just to show the viewer he went super saiyan), then go back to normal implying that when he does "go super saiyan" he doesnt change. So in GT when Gohan turns super saiyan and he goes into the form of super saiyan it goes against what actually happened in DBZ. This can also probably be used as a reason to say GT is not "canon".

He can...

He can, he just chose not to....

Yes, he can.

He can, but it would make him weaker than in the ultimate form (which looks completely the same as the base form before the training). Gogeta-buusfury.png MarkoSeke™ (talk) (contribs) Goten-buusfury.png 13:10, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

no ultimate form

there is no ultimate form

ultimate gohan is not a form its gohans power unlocked so that makes it his base form


thumb|300px|right|see super saiyan is wat he does from the startHe didnt go super saiyan because thats wat triggers the full powerup hes not transformed but he is "super saiyan"Tjakari 20:54, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

He can

Old Kai released Gohan's power. Goku stated that he was "stronger then he ever was as a Super Saiyan". Thus, his base power exceeded the power he had previously shown as a Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2, and thus at the time he had no need to go Super Saiyan. If you consider GT canon, he does later go Super Saiyan against some later enemies.

He can....

Edit By: That Guy

The Elder Kai said the training was complete. Gohan has reached his maximum power for the series. It was to catch him up with the others that had reached Super Saiyan 3. That being said, he has gained new "Mystic Powers" from the training with the Elder Kai. This "Mystic Power" is also known as Gohan's hidden power. Most people that have seen Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, and Dragon Ball Kai would know that it was anger that used to releash his power. This training has given him confidence and has helped him control the powers that he could not before. Basically, all the Elder Kai did was raise his base level to a point to where he no longer needs to transform. If he were to transform, he would destroy the planet he is trying to protect. He did not transform because he did not expect Super Buu to have the ability to absorb people and their energy.

Next time... on Dragon Ball Z...(I miss the sound of that. They also could have done better on Dragon Ball GT.)

-That Guy-

He can go ssj

He couldn't go ssj in his Ultimate form because old kai gained all power of his body which wouldn't let him go ssj in this form. As we all know when Majin Buu absorbed SSJ3 Gotenks then gohan would go ssj form if he could but he could not transform because it was the limit of him and the ultimate form had the entire hidden energy of his body including his super saiyan forms.

But there is another matter in it. As you see the ultimate form of gohan as his base power proved stronger that ssj3. It meant it would take a lot of struggle for Gohan to become a ssj with a lot of power to be doubled .

He can't go SSJ

Ultimate Gohan can't go super saiyan and there would be no point. unless he went ssj3!

Lets say your normal form power level is 1.

In SSJ your power level is 50.

In SSJ2 your power is 100.

In ultimate your power level is the full extent of your power. (meaning It could be 10000 depending on how strong your body is.)

When Gohan asks Old Kai how to use Mystic form, Old Kai tells him to "Just become a Super Saiyan, and believe." So Gohan does. You will notice that during the subsequent transformation HIS HAIR NEVER CHANGES COLOR. Therefore this IS his new version of Super Saiyan, and is the form of his utmost potential. GT is not canon.

Of course he can

He CAN transform into SSJ, SSJ2. I dont think he would get weaker if he did transform into SSJ or SSJ2, since the "ultimate" is his base form not a new transformation, nor stronger since his base form has all his strenght (include the hidden power), so transforming into SSJ or SSJ2 would change nothing, Gohan would stay as strong as on his base form. BUT SSJ, SSJ2 and SSJ3 (which I believe he could transform quite easily after he unlock his hidden power) consumes more ki than the base form, specially the SSJ3 form, so Gohan will not get stronger, but he will loses more ki after time than if he is on his base form (his ultimate state), so that's why he did not transform into any SSJ forms. Thats what I believe at least.

I dont know why he did transform into SSJ on DBGT. DB has a lot of inconsistences so I would be surprise if Akira, or whoever wrote DBGT, just forgot what the old Supreme Kai said. Although the suppose lack of training between DBZ and DBGT probably made him weaker, so he did transform into SSJs forms to get a little bit stronger. Or maybe they decide that if Gohan transforms into SSJ/SSJ2 would be better for a visual stand-point?

It's pointless. Old Kai said that even if Gohan went Super Saiyan, it wouldn't change anything except his appearence and the amount of ki he would be using. Gohan's Ultimate power is equal to a Super Saiyan 3's. Technically, he's already a Super Saiyan without transforming. All of his hidden potential is unlocked. All means all. Duh

Just watched it 10 mins ago. Even Goku tells Gohan in Other World that he will be even stronger when he turns Super Saiyan now. Just dumb*ss writing or editing it seems is why he didn't change.

Just wanna let you know guy, that doesn't happen in the manga therefore it's not cannon.

He could...

Okay, look at it this way,

Say your base was 1. Ultimate unlock= 100

The super Saipan forms are multipliers, so, say SSJ= x2 Then SSJ2= x4

So if he went super saiyan while ultimate it would be:

Start- 1 Ultimate Unlock- 100 100 (ultimate) + SSJ (x2)= 200, or doubled energy while in ultimate form, then another x2 for SSJ2 Ultimate to equal x4 ultimate.

Mystic Gohan>SSJ2 Teen/Adult Gohan

The simple answer in regards to why Mystic/Ultimate Gohan didn't transform into a SSJ is because he no longer can. It's simple really. If he knew Hirudegarn, Super Buu(Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed), Bills who had power levels above him, and the earth was in danger, a normal mind would easily comprehend that to beat such characters with high power levels, you would have to have power levels higher than theirs, right? Of course. It's completely obvious.

So why didn't Gohan simply transform into a SSJ as Mystic Gohan during his fight with Super Buu? He was getting pummeled to pieces. The obvious answer is because he couldn't. Because it's impossible for him to surpass his limits. Old Kai unlocked all his powers, so in his base form, he can now access SSJ2 tier strength and any other latent strength he had not unlocked yet. If he could raise his power level, he wouldve done so. This concludes that he can't go beyond Mystic form because that's his absolute limit. There is nothing he can do but raise his base level up to maximum. This form is flawless because he can SSJ2+ tier strength without having to transform. Transformation costs energy, as displayed with USSJ Trunks who was using so much energy into transformation and maintaining it, and most notably SSJ3 Goku who couldn't keep the form up for more 20 minutes or so, simply because of one thing, it's high maintenance, it costs ENERGY. What's so different with Mystic Gohan?

Mystic Gohan now can use his SSJ strength without transforming, so energy efficiency is perfected here. He can simply raise his power level versus having to transform first before raising power level. This is why Mystic Gohan didn't transform, because he already reached his max state, he raised his power levels to max and was still getting creamed. If transforming into an SSJ was going to win him the fight, he would of done so. Nevertheless, this proves that Mystic Gohan is better than SSJ2 Teen Gohan>SSJ2 Gohan because he can fight without having to maintain a transformation because all of his power is in his base state. We can use Bills as an example. He doesn't transform at all, he just simply raises his power above Z-Fighters tier and he is already regarded as a threat. Chow!

No he cannot

Listen, Gohan CANNOT go SSJ while he is "ultimate". Old Kai drew out all of his power, meaning that he has all of his power in base form. There's no such thing as "he can transform but he'll be weaker" or "he can but it won't make a difference". The power of his SSJ and SSJ2, along with all the other the power that he never got a chance to unlock, was drawn out by Old Kai for him to use in his base form, as base form obviously doesn't hold the SSJ or SSJ2 power....in a way, SSJ power is like "locked power" within you, and once you "unlock it", you transform into an SSJ...afterwards, it can be "locked" and "unlocked" at will, and it can also grow in power...Gohan had this SSJ power, along with another level, SSJ2...and he also had a ton of power he still hadn't unlocked...

Now, when Gohan is in base, his SSJ and SSJ2 power is not present. Also, the power he never unlocked is also, obviously, not present. Old Kai drew out all of Gohan's power, so Gohan can use all this power while in base...he can't be SSJ anymore because his SSJ power is now a part of his full power which was drawn out by Old Kai, which he now sustains in his base form, or "Ultimate form". This also helps because he doesn't have to transform into a different form that slowly drains his ki...he has access to all of his power "naturally" in his base form (because, obviously, being in base form doesn't eat up ki, because it's his "natural" form), so he doesn't have to worry about losing ki unless he actually uses it in battle, unlike, say, Goku, who, upon becoming an SSJ3, rapidly loses ki due to the strain of the transformation.

If Gohan could go SSJ, he would've done so...those saying "he never needed it" are dead wrong...Gotenks-Buu anyone? If Gohan could get a boost similar to a Super Saiyan at that point, he'd definitely use it, but he didn't.

That guy pointed his finger...That guy pointed his finger and Kakarot fell down!...and Kakarott fell down!PrinceVegeta66PrinceVegeta66 00:09, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Here's my view..

Acutally, we can't gurantee that Gohan can't go SSJ while his hidden potential was released by Old Kai. We are not even sure if he could transform into a Super Saiyan because we didn't see him to do so. He fought Super Buu and thought he could beat him but the wonder starts when Super Buu absborbs SSJ3 Gotenks along with Piccolo, inspite of sensing Buu's rapidly increased ki, Gohan didn't think to transform but he knew that his energy was less than Buu's energy. Perhaps, it was a mistake of the creators or some other unknown fact but I THINK Ultimate Gohan could tranform into a Super Saiyan because according to the aspects of series it indicates that.. no matter how much powerfull a Base Saiyan is he can increase his power level so far by just transforming into Superior states just like the Super Saiyans. Mysterious Luster (talk) 05:10, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Let's think about this for a second...

If gohan was able to go SSJ in his ultimate form, do you realize how strong he would be? He was able defeat super buu with his "base" form which is stronger than or almost as strong as ssj3 goku. This is because he(gohan) is stronger than gotenks(based on their fight with super buu) whom goku said is stronger than him. Can you imagine how powerful gohan would be if he went ssj2? He might even be stronger than gogeta(vegito) if he could go ssj2. And why didn't he go ssj when he was being beaten around by super buu(with gotenks and piccolo absorbed)?

Base>SSJ>SSJ2=Ultimate(SSJ2 - energy costs of transformation)

When he was with the old kai, i think that he dramatically increased his base power and gave him the ability to go into ultimate form. With the ultimate form being an easy transformation to unlock all of his powers without going SSJ. i.e. if he had attained SSJ3 then his ultimate for would essentially give him all the power of SSJ3 without the harmful side effects. Gohan can still go SSJ and SSJ2, but there isn't much of a point. He might go SSJ 1 to conceal his full potential, but SSJ2 is pointless because it takes alot more effort to transform.

I would ignore GT because it is inconsistent with the series. In GT their powers are all over the place. Gohan never goes into ultimate form. And as I said earlier, if his ultimate form actually is his base form, then he would be infinitely stronger than everyone else in the series. He would be stronger than SSJ4 goku, but he isn't. No one ever goes SSJ2 in GT(or if they did, they never actually show the SSJ2 animations). When trunks and goku fight luud they barely use SSJ powers(even though they were almost beaten).


First, I would like to say that the power level doesn't matter in the series while the major aspects are to emphasise the Saiyans. As we all know that we have been wondering, witnessing the infinite power of the Saiyans that we almost share a thought that a Saiyan doesn't stop at anything if he knows to increase his power either it's Ultimate or anything else.. we don't even know if a Saiyan's Ultimate Super Saiyan form is SSJ4 because there could be a lot more. I know, it would be ridiculous if we really compare the whole Saiyan's Power theory to what the series showed us (that Saiyans can increase their power by achieving a much more powerfull states) but this the truth plus it was never said that Gohan was in a particular form or transformation named Ultimte form, it was just his Secret hidden power which was released in that form and nothing. Old Kai never said that there was a form like that. And if we consider the fight between Gohan and Super Buu and why didn't Gohan transform into a SSJ? I think, Gohan was too overconfident in his new power which led him to stay in his current state. He couldn't realise in that moment that he could transform into a SSJ or other forms because he was so busy fighting Super Buu. We all saw that Gohan did these kind of mistakes earlier while fighting with Cell and Bojan in Bojack Unbound that he forgot about what he really could do with his powers, it was Goku who always used to encourage him and make him believe in himself in order to regaining his confidence. But, Goku wasn't there when Gohan was fighting with Super Buu, may be that's why Gohan didn't go SSJ.

I won't consider GT here because that series was thought totally different in many parts which doesn't share the same informations with Z. Mysterious Luster (talk) 03:48, July 30, 2012 (UTC)

Go ask Toriyama and stop babbling about!He's the only one that can answer this!

Becaus it is another form of Gohan

He can it's just his appearence doesn't change. His power and strength increase like a Super Sayians would.


gohan doesn't need to go super saiyan anymore. he's at full power in that mystic form. When transforming you're destroying your body and becoming weaker throughout the process. But in the new form he can be alot stronger without any strain. why do you think goku made him stay in super mode during the cell games? so he can adjust to the super saiyan mode and fight with less strain. you don't need to make a theory just pay attention when they speak or read the manga99.180.200.199 15:27, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Here's my theory don't bash its just a theory not facts

Everyone says why does gohan go ssj in gt well i have a theory you see gohan did lose the mystic powers but not the form notice his eyes design in gt there fully drawn whereas they werent before in truth gohan can still transform into a ssj while in his mystic form cuz its his new base form however the power the mystic form grants him is greater than his ssj forms thus becoming ssj would do nothing since the power boost from mystic overlapped them however it is possible gohan lost the mystic powers/ not form due to his lack of training until gt which caused his mystic form to become significantly weaker probably close to what he was during the start of the buu saga so the power no longer overlapped the ssj ones which is why he goes ssj in gt another it is possible he lost the powers after dying in earths explosion possibly as old kai never said the power up was permanent or not and that could explain why his power was hardly enough for gokus spirit bomb against buu


The big black circle is Gohan's full power. What Elder Kai did was remove the blue circles. The bigger the circle, the closer to full power. The forms listed are the transformations needed to reach that level of power.

Read the caption and open the full picture. Fatdude (talk) 22:06, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe due to Gohan skipping his training and focusing more on his studies as a Scholar and his family (probally dued to peaceful times no doubt) over the ten year gap seen after the defeat of Kid Buu, his Hidden Potential vanishes which is why it's not seen in Dragon Ball GT at all.Nikon23 05:53, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

and also Super Saiyan 2 was seen briefly by Goku (GT) as he bypass to Super Saiyan 3,  and Gohan and Vegeta clearly uses the Transformation during the Battle against Super Android #17 and Omega Shenron. the budget for the series probally was cut since GT didn't do so good which is why no lighting aura was not visible on them. also when they power up to the form their Super Saiyan Aura is more glowing like than Trunks and Goten were.Nikon23 05:53, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

and Akira Toriyama must considers Dragon Ball GT canon to the anime because he says that the upcoming movie Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods takes place between Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT in the lost decade in other words between Dragon Ball Magna Chapter 517 and 518, regardless of what most fan think of GT.Nikon23 05:57, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

Look at the way I see it. Super Gohan is merely Gohan at his max.This means that his base power has increased substantially even greater than ssj3.Super saiyan transformations increase your base power to about 500percent more.Therefore If Super Gohan transforms then he'll get a massive boost of power.The reason he hasnt done that already may be that its harder to awaken super saiyan with his base level so strong.I think he can but hasn't learnt to yet.


Maybe his Hidden Potential is something (for some reason) from his Human half, so it unlocks his human powers and locks away some of the saiyan stuff. Maybe he figures out how to re-unlock his saiyan transformations some time in those ten years between Z and GT. Who knows? 

if you watched to series then you would know that all sayians get more powerful as they get defeated thus thats why when his power was not enough to beat gotenks buu he got the powers to transform

He doesn't have to

He's always mystic. That means he's always at his strongest, without transforming--Ssj3gogeta96 (talk) 07:10, December 19, 2012 (UTC)ssj3gogeta96


If Gohan tried to go SSJ he would destroy the earth.So this is a pretty much reason of Gohan not willing to go SSJ.Anyway,Gohan CAN NOT go SSJ,if he could,why not just use it against Buutenks?Gohan would kick Super Buu's ass


well gohan cannot go ssj or beyond becuase all of his power has been put into his base form. meaning that he cant tap the next level of power becuase there is no next level. and in gt he was able to go ssj becuase he had lost some of his power over time due to being a "normal person" so he could tap into more power through transforming. elder kia unlocked his power but never said it was a permanent transformation.

Ok from what I remember from the series is this after Old Kai was done with the ritual of unlocking Gohan's locked powers.  He actually tried powering up, and was shaking the Supreme Kai planet.  He was told to stop and he asked the Old Kai if he can still transform into a Super Saiyan, and the Old Kai said yes but there's no need for him to do so because he had the power necessary to destroy Buu anyways.  Besides from what I heard anyways that if he went beyond Super Saiyan that the Earth wouldn't be able to handle his power lvl and be destroyed.  According to the power lvl chart he had no reason to train beyond Super Saiyan 2 anyways because in his Mystic Form he's at a Super Saiyan 3(or close to it).

Let's be real

If he could, he would have and just beat up Buutenks and not taken a beaten. And if he could then the forms would have been a "power down" for him. I'm sure the creators thought about this. Base - SS -> SS2 and Base - > Ultimate. I believe those were his choices. So he could go SS cuz he's a saiyan but his ultimate form required a different transformation. I know none of us would compare DBZ to GT but Goku was kinda the same with SS4; Base -> SS - > SS3 and Base - > SS4. He never went from SS or SS3 to SS4, he was always at his base. Gohan did lose his Ultimate transfomation in GT due to him not training and this is understandable because in the Badabi and Buu saga he could barely muster the power to go SS2 and when he did it was weaker than his previous SS2 at the Cell Games. So yeah he probably could go SS and SS2  but he would be weaker. Ultimate wasn't a transformation but a power up that exceeded SS and SS2 but he had to do it in a base form. Just think of it like Piccolo; yeah he's a Super Namek but that doesn't mean he's at Super Namek Full Power all the time. His base is Super Namek but he summon his Super Namek power when he needs it.

Side Note: PLEASE STOP QUOTING WHAT THEY SAID FROM THE ENGLISH VERSION. Sorry but they do change the words around.

Ok i will end it here guys

gohan never went ssj2 after the world turny when he got his power obsorbed... mabey u all should start from there.

lets say we put it like this gohan is liggitamitly the second strongest warrior in the universe ((under goku and above vegeta yes above vegeta. im standing on that till my death bed vegeta cheated his way to ssj4 and come to find out its equal only 34% above his ssj2 form. not to mintion he never went ssj3. gohan on the other hand was the first to fly, was the first to surpass goku in power during the fight agenst raditz for a very short period of time, was 3rd to reach ssj and darn near mounted the same power with goku and 1st to reach ssj2. He gets week from not practicing dramaticly during the GT saga and in turns when he faught in the world turny he got his power absorbed. so even in downfall he's still #2 at least!) you put that ontop of Ultimate form....... lemme say it again ULTIMATE FORM...... for you stupid people out there.... lemme say thi one word........  ULTIMATE!!!!!!!!!!!!....... WHY..... DOES THAT MEAN HES AT MAX POWER? DOES THAT MEAN IF HE CHARGES UP HE'LL HAVE THE AURA OF SSJ 1-3? OH! DOES IT MEAN THAT DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME HE'D BEAT GOKU DRAMATICLY........ YES! so why in the hevenly fathers name would he need to turn ssj or ssj2? hes ultimate meaning:

class="ts" Being or happening at the end of a process; final: "their ultimate aim was to force his resignation".

|- | style="height: 10px;"| |- |Noun{| class="ts" | style="padding: 0px;"|The best achievable or imaginable of its kind: "the ultimate in decorative luxury". |} |- | style="height: 10px;"| |- | style="padding-right: 5px; vertical-align: top;"|Synonyms{| class="ts" | final - last - terminal - utmost - extreme - eventual

so if he turned ssj1 or 2 he'd go down in power level. IM RIGHT.... YOU CAN REFER TO SCENES OR MANGA ALL YOU WANT BUT FACT IS DBZ DONT THINK THINGS THROUGH CORRECTLY..... but hey... be glad its not the Final Fantisy series or we'ed all be lost... lol am i right chou kids XD |} |}

Gohan probably can

Remember back in the Frieza Saga when Guru "unlocked" Gohan's potential. It wasn't a transformation it just made gohan stronger. Old Kai can do the same thing, but on a much larger scale of course. The dialog about Gohan after Old Kai unlocks his power heavily implies he can go Super Saiyan as no on ever says that Gohan can't get any stronger. What we know for a fact is that for Gohan to release his true power he has to go super saiyan, but instead of going super saiyan Gohan's true power is revealed, thus turning Gohan's super saiyan form into a simple powerup. This implies(to me at least) that his super saiyan levels have been relocked and he once again would need to unlock them, but the emotions needed to unlock it would be on a much larger scale do to his drastic new power. With the new Super Saiyan God form and rumors of a new Akira starting a new Dragon Ball series after the Buu saga, I believe that we could see Ultimate Gohan go Super Saiyan. I mean some people said that Broly couldn't go beyond LSSJ but he has(unoffically anyway). We can't take GT into account anymore as with the new Super Saiyan God form; GT is now offically a what if story arc.

/\ The movie isn't canon. Both the movie and GT were made by Toei, not Toriyama. The GT haters never understand this.Sandubadear (talk) 19:53, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

^ Wrong, the movie is canon. Akira Toriyama created the story and is deeply involved in it's development. GT was discredited by Dragonball onljne.

/\ No, you're wrong. I am never wrong. Go to the Battle of Gods page and see this part:

Yūsuke Watanabe wrote the story of the movie. They just mention Akira Toriyama as the original series creator, because he is. Go to every movie's page, and you'll see it:

  1. Dragon Ball Z: Dead Zone
  2. Dragon Ball Z: The World's Strongest
  3. Dragon Ball Z: The Tree of Might
  4. Dragon Ball Z: Lord Slug
  5. Dragon Ball Z: Cooler's Revenge
  6. Dragon Ball Z: The Return of Cooler
  7. Dragon Ball Z: Super Android 13!
  8. Dragon Ball Z: Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan
  9. Dragon Ball Z: Bojack Unbound
  10. Dragon Ball Z: Broly - Second Coming
  11. Dragon Ball Z: Bio-Broly
  12. Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn
  13. Dragon Ball Z: Wrath of the Dragon

You're wrong, so get out of here.

Sandubadear (talk) 21:47, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

^ Had you read your own link you sent and not boost your ego with "You're wrong and I'm right" You wouldn't look like an ass right now. "The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation’s latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involved from the script stage for the first time. " He was also interviewed here: http://www.saiyanisland.com/2013/03/akira-toriyama-interview/

And he also said here: "What I did was create the story" Go research more.

Nobody realised this but since now the maximum limit of dbz was a super saiyan 3 right.....so if gohan has reached his MAXIMUM limit he would have reached his most unhidden power which would be...wait for it...super saiyan GOD. That's right if Goku can do it and he is a saiyan why can't his son go super saiyan GOD too..... by that logic Gohan can either actually turn super saiyan and increase his powers or he has reached maximum saiyan status and has the power of a super saiyan GOD which we all know isn't the case. Also it will suck bad if he actually  reached his limits i mean, he is a saiyan....let's not forget that when he receives an almost fatal or fatal blow he becomes even more stronger so that there completely justifies the theory that he can surpass his current limit and one way of doing that is by going super.

thanks i would enjoy if you commented and tell me what you think :)

He could, but it wouldnt make any difference

I like to think that SSJ forms are a way to achieve your true power. "Ultimate" just allowed Gohan to achieve his true power without needing to transform into anything. Just to make it clear, true power =/= hidden power (although Supreme Kai unleashed Gohan' hidden power as well). 

Lets pick Goku, by the time before Kririn dies his base form power was 3m, with Kaioken x20 60m, but his true power was much more, probably around 100m and a hidden power level of around 150m. He cant use that power though, but when Frieza kills Kririn, Goku unlocks his hidden power and now can transform into SSJ, his true power is now ~150m but only achievable in SSJ form. His true power continues to grown, so by the time he fought Cell, his true power was way ahead of his SSJ form (but not quite enough to achieve SSJ2), which itself was way stronger than Frieza' saga SSJ form.

old kai do his weird dance 5 hours long and gohans unweaken powers aweaken so ultimate gohan already surpass a ssj 

It's not that he can't.... the Ultimate form is essentially the Super Saiyan Form... just, it does not exert any strain on him. Essentially speaking, he can power up to Super Saiyan 3 in this form. It won't exert any pressure on him. He just does not, because he does not have the required energy to power up. Goku could go Super Saiyan 3 in the Other World because he could put unlimited energy in his transformation. Gohan IS a Super Saiyan, but his apperance does not change.

The Ultimate Form can be accessed at any time. While not in the Ultimate form, he can still go Super Saiyan. In Dragonball GT, Baby Gohan is Super Saiyan, showing that he can still go Super Saiyan.

The Ultimate state replaces the SSJ forms

If we are to believe that the SSJ forms manifest by tapping into the Saiyan's hidden power in escalating increments (with SSJ3 drawing it out to its limits as stated in the Daizenshuu) then with Gohan having his hidden power drawn out way beyond its limits in his Ultimate state then the SSJ forms are simply left with nothing to work with. In addition to that both states use the same power-up process as a trigger.

It's even implied earlier when Gohan gets angry at Old Kai when the ritual takes too long and he accidentally powers up. Unlike before he barely transforms into a SSJ (only his eyes change color) and instead the rest is characteristic of the energy release that is later seen with the full Ultimate state transformation.

I Think He Can

well i didnt watch the show alot but i think he can go ssj just a guess witch i think is right (sorry if i wrote something wrong im from israel)

Okay this is what think

Okay now we are talking about Gohan he barley even trains. Have you ever thought after a long period of time he might of forgot the ultimate technique or something and turned ssj instead. Honstly this is my only thing I  thought of when he turned ssj in GT, So i hope I helped.


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There's no way.

Gohan cannot go Super Saiyan after getting Mystic/Ultimate form (though it's not even really a form as much as a full power). First things first, Elder Kai tells Gohan nothing more than to go Super Saiyan, when Gohan attempts to go Super Saiyan with no further instruction, Super Saiyan doesn't happen. Instead, his power just goes to it's max more so than any form before could give him, which I'd like to point out that Mystic isn't a transformation as much as Gohan's power at full, much like the difference between relaxed and full power (such as when a super saiyan is relaxed and has more platinum blonde hair and when the power is maxed and trying the hair and aura is gold). Point is that when going Super Saiyan, instead his power just goes past everything and he remains in base form, he has no Super Saiyan forms.

Furthermore, in the manga, the only cannon source of Dragonball Z statements, that whole "I wonder if I can become Super Saiyan" comment does not actually happen. This is usually people's argument 'but when asked that Elder Kai said it would be too dangerous or that there was no need', well truth is, no he didn't say that. It's not in the manga. This also brings up GT, anyone mentioning GT at all has no relevance here, 'if you consider GT cannon-' well you can't because it's not. Anything that happened in it cannot be used because it never happened, Gohan never was shown going SSJ or anything of the sort (until something I'll touch on here in a second) and anything GT did was not a thing.

This is further supported by the fact that when he was getting beaten by Buu (Gotenks Absorbed) he did not transform. DragonBallZ is not the kind of series where character's hold back so unreasonably, and whenever they do hold back it's blatantly explained. Gohan didn't transform when he desperately needed it and that, plus the fact that the act of unleashing his full power is the same reflex as transforming into Super Saiyan now, AND that there was no mention of it in the manga like there was in the anime should leave no reason to believe that he actually can become a Super Saiyan anymore. The fact of the matter is, that Mystic form takes Gohan to his ultimate limit, to a power further than any Super Saiyan form could give him (including 3, being stronger than SS3 Goku) while replacing the reflex to actually go Super Saiyan entirely. It is not a form, it is his full power.

Now as far as DBZ cannon goes, that is how it is, that's just fact. Recently of course as everyone knows, a new chapter (so to speak) of the cannon has been added: The new movie 'DragonBallZ Battle of Gods'. In this movie, while Gohan does not go Super Saiyan during his fights, the form does show up near the end with him but before that I do want to make a point: at one step of editing, Gohan does go Super Saiyan all througout the movie BUT they actually took the effort to edit each scene with him doing so, so that he would simply go full power when fighting. Considering they took the effort to do so where in any other movie or series that wasn't cannon they didn't care, that's just one more point to add to the "he can't do it" side. 


It's at the end however, when the Saiyan's line up to give Goku the power to go Super Saiyan God, that Gohan is shown in Super Saiyan for a moment. This is in the movie so it is now cannon. Why this is though, can only be a number of things: Perhaps somehow Gohan is able to spark a Super Saiyan transformation in this moment (because same logic, when getting his ass whooped by Bills he would have used it before this moment), or perhaps it was even a missed edit, or maybe symbolism. Either way though, because they specifically made it (to the point of changing it) so that Gohan did not go into a Super Saiyan form until that very moment at the end, there is no way he could have gone Super Saiyan before hand, or even in the movie until that point, if he can even still do it afterwards.

After that, well that's just the end of DragonBallZ because GT is not a thing. Do the naysayers finally get it? 

I just watched the episode where Gohan first goes mystic in official english subtitles translated from the japanese version and Elder Kai states as he is patting the dust off of him, "Hmph, it is not as though he has to transform. That Super-Whatever-Thing is depraved." Therefore, Elder Kai says right there that he can transform, he just thinks it is morally wrong to do


I love how some people assume that Super Saiyan 2 (Gohan's highest SSJ level) makes him like only as strong as Cell or around that level when it multiplies his base power. And the "Mystic/Ultimate Gohan" is not a trnasformation, it is a power-up to Gohan's base form. All that Old Kai did was release the sleeping power inside Gohan and give him access to it while he is in base form. His power was like a massive river being held back by a dam, and when the Old Kai had unlocked his power, that river was released, allowing Gohan to use his power at his own will. Gohan's new power was so immense to the point where he didn't need to transform into Super Saiyan 1 or 2. And people might be wondering why he didn't transform against Buutenks is because his friends and his brother were inside of him, all he wanted to do was stall until the fusion wore off.

He can and here's the proof

In Battle of Gods, which is canon (Akira Toriyama was deeply involved in nearly every aspect of this movie), Ultimate Gohan transforms into a Super Saiyan alongside Vegeta, Trunks and Goten in an effort to help Goku ascend to Super Saiyan God. Don't believe me? Watch the movie. False Super Saiyan Jake (talk) 19:14, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Watch the anime, read the magna, then speak.

After the Elder Kai unlocks Gohan's abilities he says just do that SS thing you do. Gohan powers up and does not transform but his power increases to much stronger than a SSJ2. It is ASSUMED that he can not go SSJ any  more because of his attempt to power up. Gohan's max power was SSJ2, the Kai unlocked that as his base form. He powered up and was much stronger than even that. He had not transformed because it was unnessesary. The Old Kai NEVER states in the Anime or Magna that Gohan can't go SSJ anymore. For those of you who consider GT canon it shows how much more powerful Gohan was then, becasue he had mastered the SSJ again with the Ultimate Form being his base form. Make sense? So Ultimate/Mystic Gohan is the power he had  at the time (SSJ2) completely unlocked in his base form. With a little training he would've turned SSJ in DBZ. Hell if Buu wouldn't have abosorbed him, he might have tapped into it and used it. But it is not stated that he can't in the Magna. And GT is part of the Anime so he does go SSJ as Ultimate. Also the Elder Kai states "A cat becomes a lion. A bird becomes an eagle." A Saiyan becomes a Super Saiyan. It is his power maxed out in his base form. Next he would have to relearn how to become a SSJ. Make sense now?? Oh and to top it all off, BOG is cannon to the story and Gohan becomes SSJ to help give Goku SSJG. Therefore DBZ BOG Gohan was stronger than "Ultimate" Gohan who fought Super Buu. -UltimateSSJ1-


You guys should listen to me, Gohan.

My Mystic/Ultimate form is about as strong as my ssj 2 form, but stronger because my full potential is unlocked. The reason my hair is not gold is because my ultimate form allows me to trasform without using energy(making me faster). You shouldn't  even bring G.T. into this because Akria Toriyama(the creator of dragon ball/dbz) did not write G.T.(meaning its not cannon), the only part he had in it was designing ssj4. But, I guess if I wanted to use energy to go super saiyan, I could. END OF DISCUSSION!


In Battle of the Gods, he did go SSJ. He just didn't do it against Super Buu because he didn't need to. Or maybe he was relying on the power Old Kai gave him rather than his own SSJ power. Either way, he's still capable of it.Ice-jin (talk) 21:00, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Gohan is shown going super saiyan in Dragonball BoG so he can. Some people already mentioned this: the reason he didn't go ssj against Buutenks is because with so much more base power it takes him so much more effort to bring the ssj form to the surface. Its like having to relearn it all over again, like he had trouble first turning ssj in the hyperbolic time chamber for the first time. Old Kai didnt unlock Gohan's ssj forms without him having to go Super saiyan. He just unlocked ALL of Gohan's BASE power. He's always had problems using all his base power. Old Kai fixed that. That's why Gohan was so much stronger as ssj2 fighting cell vs him going ssj2 at the world tournament. Gohan got so angry he tapped into all his power fighting cell:ALL his base power x ssj x ssj2. During the world tournament he wasnt angry so he wasn't tapping into all his base power. Old Kai just made it where he didnt need to get mad to tap into that base power. If Old Kai had the power to unlock Gohan's ssj power without him having to transform he would've done the same for Goku and Vegeta, so they didn't have to waste energy transforming. Goku and Vegeta didn't need what Old Kai gave Gohan because their training and experience gives them control of their full base already.

It Does Nothing.

It wouldn't do anything to his power. He would stay the same, his ki would just be consumed faster.

SSJTyrone (talk) 03:59, January 15, 2015 (UTC)

I believe that he could, its just that it wouldn't give him much power. I think that the Super Saiyan transformations temporarily let's one access their hidden, untapped strength, like Gohan had done throughout the series. When Old Kai released all of Gohan's hidden potential, Super Saiyan no longer had much power to temporarly give Gohan.


old kai did the ritual to unlock gohan's MYSTIC aka HIDDEN powers it means he was at a point he can go no further. now just for the argument if u consider ssj4 canon then u can argue that ssj4 gohan can actually be stronger than ultimate gohan but that's not the case since dbgt aint canon. but coming back to the argument goku himself stated when super buu(gotenks absorbed) turn back (powered down ) to buu(piccolo) that "even gohan can beat u now" many of us get frustrated that y didnt gohan go ssj while his power was unlocked. but here comes the point there's no use. gohan was a full powered ssj meaning that his body would consume same energy  as it did in his base form as in full powered ssj form. but ssj2 saps a lot out of u. gohan ( ultimate) was even powerful than ssj2 gohan and there is no point in becoming ssj2 where ur body uses up more energy rather than being more powerful inn ur base form which in this case is ultimate gohan.

He can, it would be a power-up, but he just doesn't.

OK in ep 262 when gohan powers up goku remarks that, 'he didn't even transform' and elder kai says it's not like has to, ssj is depraved.. That's the first context clue. The kai presents it as an option rather than saying he just can't.

Later elder kai explains the reason he's irritated at ssj is because it boosts strength but can damage the user. This is reiterated yet again as folks mentioned already when they're discussing fusion.

Taking these into account and the fact that there's nothing..ever..contradicting gohan being powered up by transforming further into ssj. It really is obvious that he could have. or maybe people don't realize that while something like kaioken is a multiplier, ssj has more of an exponential or log curve. Is their even another fringe case where people doubt that besides gohan's last dbz form?

One other thing to consider. At the beginning of the fight with buu, as elder kai stated, there's really no need for gohan to power up any further. Then there's a break and once the fighting resumes things of course change. What's important is that at this point buu is kicking gohan's butt left and right at high speed. By the time gohan has any considerable time to himself he's already too damaged to do squat.

Finally I submit to you that when dende heals gohan, he's just too dumb to try it.

Not full saiyan

I think Gohan can't turn super saiyan 3 because he's not full saiyan like Goku, Gohans part human so he doesn't get the full abilities a full saiyan has like super saiyan 3 or 4

Gohan Can Go Super Saiyan and Here's The Truth

I'm a big fan of DBZ and I recently just finished watching it again. Gohan's remaining potential was unlocked by the Former Kai/ Old Kai. After that, nothing really happened but Gohan and the others realizing he had a lot of power. After that, Kibito took Gohan to Earth. The Former Kai DID NOT SAY ANYTHING about him going Super Saiyan. He just didn't go Super Saiyan after that happaned in the Buu saga. The Super Saiyan power was not needed then. What people confuse is what the Former Kai told Goku about the Potara earrings. He told Goku that he did not need to go Super Saiyan while using the earrings because the earrings had all the power they needed because Gohan was slacking and couldn't beat Majin Buu (Super Buu with Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed). That's what really happened.

He recently went Super Saiyan in Battle of Gods and in Resurrection 'F'

Not Full Saiyan?

Thats dumb logic, gotenks is half saiyan, super saiyan 4 is technically non-canon. So that arguement is pretty much null and void


I believe, it was just an artistic representation, something to differentiate it from super saiyan 3 or any super saiyan form. A form essentially only accessible by gohan

Gohan can go Super Saiyan 3

Gohan can go SSJ3, but he can't attain it on Earth. Goku achieved this in the Other World where he trained for 7 years. The only full Saiyans can go SSJ3 is just bs. Vegeta hasn't attained the form either and he trains more than Gohan. Gohan doesn't need SSJ3 anyway become the Old Kai unlocked more of his potential power.


Ultimate Gohan can go super saiyan it just that when he powers up without turning super saiyan his strength surpasses Gotenks so if he did it would be like him going super saiyan 4 almost within power but not appearence.

Why he can go Super Saiyan in GT:

Gohan can go ssj in gt because as time goes on and he slacks off, more and more of his power goes dormant. You all saw what resulted from skipping training after the Cell Games; Gohan's strength diminishing and becoming more dormant. Since Gohan's strength is more dormant like before he needs the full transformation to gain ssj power. Now to all that say he could've transformed in the fight with Buu; if you can transform you can transform you can, and if you can't you can't. Gohan obviously couldn't have since he was being clobbered further along when fighting buu and there's no need to worry about Earth from transforming since the planet at this point has NO PEOPLE on it to be harmed anymore so stop saying he can in DBZ since it's annoying. Manga comes before the anime and the manga never showed him in ssj so he couldn't have transformed. As with GT, it may be inconsistent, but with Gohan going ssj it makes some sense.

PS: Don't refer to the DBZ movies to support your arguments, it's pathetic because there is zero logic in those things.