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Forum True Power of the Base Saiyans

[[Category:{{{1}}}|True Power of the Base Saiyans]]



So, we all know that Bills said in Battle of the Gods that Goku's base power could not defeat full power Frieza, a feat that I have always believed Goku could easily do at that point in his life. However, Bills states that this is not the case. I have read several forum posts on other sites discussing these things. One main point made is that Goku was likely supressing his power as he always does. Personally, I agree with this point (I shall provide evidence in a moment), while others say that the God of Destruction would not be foolish enough to misread Goku in such a way. However, if we look at the power of those encountered after Frieza, we can see why Goku's Base indeed should be higher than Frieza. 


First of all, we can look to the Supreme Kais, who are said to be 1,000 times more powerful than Frieza. Now, we do not know what form of Frieza this is, but if we assume Final Form (which probably is not the right one), then the Kais stack up at ~120 Billion. Majin Buu is even more powerful than that, yet Goku fought him at >= power in his Super Saiyan 3 form, which means his SSJ3 form must similarly be over 120 Billion, which gives Goku a Base power over 300 million. 

"...it is highly unlikely the Supreme Kais were one thousand times stronger than Frieza's 100% Final Form, which boasted a power level of 120 million, as that would mean they had a power level of 120 billion. Super Gogeta was stated to have been at 2.5 billion when he destroyed Super Janemba in the movie Dragon Ball Z: Fusion Reborn."
— Dragon Ball Wiki: Supreme_Kai_(race)

As it has been said countless times, power levels stated after the Frieza Saga are very likely incorrect, despite coming from official sources. I am not saying this to convince anyone that the Kais were actually 120 billion, as I already stated that this may not be true. I am providing this piece of evidence because Gogeta does not only have a Power of 2.5 billion, as even Goku puts this to shame. Goku's last reported power level of 3 million with a 400x multiplier for SSJ3 becomes 1.2 billion. If the figure for Gogeta is actually true, this means that Goku's base power barely increases after Namek, as even just doubling it would put his full Super Saiyan 3 power on par with Super Gogeta, who easily annihilates Janemba, a foe that gave SSJ3 Goku trouble. With this out of the way, it does not become too unfeasible for the Supreme Kais to have powers around 120 Billion, which definitely puts Goku's base far above Frieza's full power. Yet, if we go with the more conventional idea that Supreme Kai only has a power around 530 million, it is actually quite believable that the Saiyans do not have high enough base power to defeat Frieza.

So, in the end, while I personally believe that the Saiyans have base power greater than Frieza's Full Power, the lack of definite power levels after Namek leave things uncertain. Basically, the only thing I have truly proven is that Gogeta's Power Level is not 2.5 billion. Goku's base form very well may or may not be greater than Frieza's full power post buu saga. What do you guys think?


SBCSpecialBeamKamehameha!Gohan Kamehameha 23:31, January 24, 2014 (UTC)


It's Not Crazy

I don't think Goku can take on Frieza in base form yet, but he is certainly close. Judging from "Fusion Reborn", Gohan could take down Frieza in 50% Power Final Form with a single punch. Goku is much stronger than Gohan, so off that alone, we could say Goku is over 60,000,000 at least. "Fusion Reborn" takes place somewhere around the Majin Buu arc, so you could say that's how strong Goku is during that time period.

Evolve 20 (talk) 17:28, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

Base Saiyans >>>>>> Freeza

Freeza being above the base saiyans is just crazy. The only way to get that is to ignore all the bloating in the Cell saga.

To all the people who actually think Freeza > Base Saiyans, explain Android 18 vs. Base Goten/Trunks :-)

-DELETED- 03:49, December 31, 2014 (UTC)


Simple, #18 was holding back. She thought she was fighting a normal human and didn't know that Mighty Mask was the kids in disguise because she can't sense ki. So, no reason for her to blow up the chance getting the prize money by accidentally killing Mighty Mask... Hiruman (talk) 02:26, January 9, 2015 (UTC)


This doesn't look like she was holding back:

Screen Shot 2015-01-09 at 12.39.33 PM
Screen Shot 2015-01-09 at 12.39.47 PM
Screen Shot 2015-01-09 at 12.39.55 PM
SSJ2 Gogeta (talk) 17:41, January 9, 2015 (UTC

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Again, she can't sense ki. So she can't tell how strong her enemy is and must increase her power according to Mighty Mask (whom she thought was a normal human) ability. If she's not holding back the entire arena would be vaporized by her ki blast. Hiruman (talk) 02:58, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Unsure, but...

While fighting technique may improve and new moves may be learned, I don't know if the base forms get that much stronger... I think that general training raises one's "power ceiling" which is in one's highest form. My guess is that, movies, filler and GT aside, the power of base forms are not increased drastically once a new form is unlocked, as one will only increase the power of his/her highest form. --QZ - RWCP 20 px 02:39, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

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