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Forum How come nobody likes super saiyan 4?

[[Category:{{{1}}}|How come nobody likes super saiyan 4?]]

i always thought it was pretty awsome.

Good form.


I wouldn't say NOBODY liked it, but I personally don't like it because its not really a "Super Saiyan" form. It looks absolutely nothing like the others and it isn't acheived in any way like the others.

Thats a good thing. It means Toei is thinking outside the box and making the new form epic and unique.

I think it would have been fine if they didn't call it Super Saiyan 4...and it didn't have that feminine red-pink fur. Tokeupdude 04:12, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

ssj4 is bad

In Dbz the best character is Goku ssj1 because its his original form of the super saiyan and his gotten stronger in the series. Goku always uses super saiyan 1 to start of with and has to transform because the enemy draws great strength no other form will match how good the original form is...

I don't like it because of the colors it would be nice if it looked the same but hair more spikey and gold still and the fur gold also another thing is it's not powerful enough and another thing is bulma said that you might have to be a full blooded saiyan which sucks!.

Probably mainly because it deviated so much from the other SSJ forms i.e. No golden hair, ape fur all over body.

Personally, because it doesn't match. Red fur comes out of nowhere and funky looking random colored pance as well... in addition to Goku randomly growing to adult size. It also looks unattractive from an artistic perspective. SSJ! and SSJ2 look interesting, SSJ3 looks silly and SSJ4 looks bizaare and lame.

Well SSJ2 and 3 were just Akira thinking to himself "hmm new ssj form? I know, just add more hair and sparks! genius!" ssj4 is unique badass and merges the great ape form with super saiyan.

Plus I thought the eye shadow was kind of stupid. Also, it's different from the other SSJ forms cause it's not part of the same progression. SSJ -> SSJ2 -> SSJ3. "SSJ4" is obtained from controlling the golden great ape form and not from directly surpassing SSJ3. Theoretically any SSJ with a tail could have obtained it.

And what about the saiyans who cant control golden oozaru? or handle the ssj4 powerup in their body?

Answer to the above question is, during the frieza saga, vegeta mentioned there was another super saiyan but achieved it in the oozaru form, he couldnt maintain the power and destroyed the planet and died along with the planet.

Plus there are already too many SSJ forms as there is. SSJ3 was already kinda ridiculous.

DIFFERENT BAD!1!!1!!!!1! ME HATE DIFFERENT!!1!!!!1111!11!ONE1!!!!11!ELEVEN!111!!!1!!111!
Be quiet, Tien009.
One too many 0's, and I'm mocking the guy above since that's pretty much what his post sums up to be. --DARK 08:44, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
Lol I didn't mean that I hate it exclusively because it's different from the other forms. I'm no racist :) I hate it because they took away what I thought was the coolest part about SSJs - the hair. Also, I thought the ape fur and eye shadow didn't look good.

I like it...

It looks awesome and is powerful. Don't ask any question. GotenksSSJ2.jpgGogeta BBK dbgtepisode60 309.jpgMendrisVegito-.jpgGokussj4blah.jpg 08:45, June 16, 2011 (UTC) SSJ4 Kakarot.jpgTheLastSuperSaiyanXTalkContribVegeta SSJ4.jpg 17:48, December 18, 2011 (UTC)TheLastSuperSaiyanX i thought it was awesome to i even made a few files named after it and a sig


I love that form, it looks awesome and new. I don't think they could have made the hair any longer instead of this form. Anyway I though it was a good idea to finally incorporate something to do with the Oozaru after it disappeared after the Vegeta saga.

SSJ3 Better

SSJ3 is much better than ssj4 because it is 10x ssj2, not 4x like others say it has been confirmed to be 10x

Where? oh wait you were making shit up out of your ass. my mistake.

it's just Goku can't control it really well so its weaker, and its not even close to any ssj form or even the ozaru form. Its also too easy to obtain if Goku kept his tail he could've gotten it long ago and killed Cell.

Easy to obtain? First you need a tail. Then you need at least Super Saiyan 2. Then you need a massive amount of body durability and power necessary. Then you need the peace of mind to control the transformation. You also need alot of Blutz wave stuff.

Personally i like to think you need a signifigant amount of power too transform into a ssj4 and that Goku and Vegeta couldnt acheive it until that time.

Wolf Kaioken - Its me! You think its stupid? Far from it! Its the most epic form there is, besides ssj. You gotta admit, the original is the best!


SS3 looks sexier and more pwnage... the SS4 lost his golden hair.... although SS5 is best.. :D (http://dragonball.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:This_is_what_Super_Saiyan_5_must_look_like.&t=20110618014228)Firebo14 18:30, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


that or canon


name some and i can explain most of them through logic


they didnt think they could. thats why gt is not a manga. gt was comissioned ONLY because toriyama wanted to let them write it as he had no interest in it. they no doubt pleaded with him to do it for them.

absense? in shelong times, he stated he oversaw and checked the story for them.

so you willingly admit you hate creativity and fun? not every saiyan form must be just another variation of ssj1 with even longer more ridiculous gold hair.

You can't explain any of them through logic. For one, the Black Star Dragonballs should've been rendered inert once Kami and Demon King Piccolo split up, furthermore, rendered forever inert when the latter died and spawned Piccolo. Piccolo is Demon King Piccolo's reincarnation, yet still his own person. When he and Kami merged, they were not the original Namekian that arrived on Earth and therefore could not have re-activated the Black Star Dragon Balls.

yes they were for all intents and purposes. kami should have died when king piccolo did if piccolo jr is not king piccolo

                    --If that were true Then Kami should have died when Goku killed Demon King Piccolo
                            Chi Chi Surprised Sig.JPG. . . Where . . . is My . . . Sweet . . . Little . . . Gohan? . . . 21:13, October 23, 2011 (UTC)

Also, when the VILLAINS die, canonically, they do not receive bodies, they don't retain their consciousness.

that is canonical though. gt follows the anime, not th emanga.

It is entirely in King Yemma's authority to decide to give them bodies or not. So, that mayhem in Hell, Super 17? Couldn't have happened. Do you not remember the whole talk Vegeta had with Piccolo on whether or not he'd see Goku in the afterlife? Admittedly, it's something that DBZ filler had caused, but DBZ Kai has seemed to rectify that mistake. Furthermore, when a dead person is killed again (as in the case of Freiza and Cell in GT) they disappear FOREVER. Frieza and Cell did not, they just re-spawned.

Bebi/Baby was based on a filler concept. the Tsufuru did not exist in canon, something which Kai has rectified.

tsufuru were created by akira toriyama in a memo sent to toei as an idea for filler material.

Speaking of Super 17. How the hell is a merger between two identical models of #17 putting out a greater power than anything beyond Semi-Perfect Cell?

did you watch gt? they explain it perfectly.

17 is imbued with the "power of hell", plus vegeta says that the hell fighter clone created in hell is stronger than the original. original 17 according to gero was always stronger than cell but had to be supressed because he wouldnt follow orders. he was the true ultimate android created by gero.

Even moreso, an even greater output than a PERFECT FUSION of TWO SSJ2 warriors?

why not? theres no such thing as perfect fusion.

Cell was already stronger than both 17 and 18, and in his perfect form had their near-equal power supplement his own. Furthermore, his Super Perfect form put out an even greater output of power than that, yet still fell to a single SSJ2. Super 17 being stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell is a stretch. Him being stronger than Perfect Cell, Vegito, and Super Buuhan is outright ridiculous.

you assume that super 17 is just 17 + 17. which was never established. its a merging to create an ultimate android, similar to potara. obviously its not a stretch considering two kids around the level of semi perfect cell created a being capable of fighting ssj3 goku.

They wanted to cash in on the franchise some more and overestimated their ability in contuining the seire.s There's a reason why it's the only one that is less than 100 episodes...

the reason is it was so popular it got extended. originally it was gonna end with baby saga.

No. He stated he gave them ideas for character designs. He was working on other projects

no he wasnt. he checked gts story, offered advice, created the title, created planet designs and recommended gt to fans.

and wasn't actively involved in plot and characters until the DBZ special in 2008, and more recently Dragonball Online, which is canon, and which pretty much renders DBGT non-canon.

wrong. Dbo isnt canon since its a game. a game cant continue on from a manga since its not a linear story. where has a game ever been canon to a manga? toriyama had even less to do with DBO than he did with gt if you look at all the articles and credits.

plus DBO Is basically another timeline. time travel meant that in one universe, gt happened and in another, dbo happened.

That's a fallacious argument. Hating SSJ4's design =/= Hating creativity and fun. You really have no point to make on this one. As I stated, SSJ3 was enough. 16:09, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Trunten 3900

Personaly, I like the Golden Great Ape better than the Super Sayain 4 tranformation, because they're both of the same power and speed, but GGA has the hugeness advantage, and I bet it would look badass in sayain battle armor. Hell, I like ssj3 better than ssj4 for a few reasons:

  1. It looks a lot cooler and more rageful, with the long glowing hair and dark angry eyes.
  2. It's a better terror/psychiological weapon because it lets off more aura energy and looks scarier.
  3. It doesn't have rediculous requirements for transformation, like a load of blutz waves, a current transformation, control over your great ape, and being a pure sayain.
  4. There's only a 25% difference in power(400x vs 500x) unlike the usual 400%.
  5. The rage and uncontrol of ssj3 lets them access their instincts to become better fights, but they need to stay calm and rational in ssj4 otherwise they may lose control of the transformation.

Super Sayain 4 doesn't look good either, with the pink fur, eye shadow, silky pants, no aura, short hair, etc.

yes it does. black under eyes doesnt mean eye shadow. and its red fur, not pink fur. and yes it retained the golden aura and has longer hair than base form.

All over, GGA and ssj3 are more effective and and BETTER than super sayain 4.

no they arent. not by a long shot. ssj3 drains your stamina too fast in a living body, and GGA is too slow and a bigger target. ssj4 is actually the best form possible for a saiyan.

Besides you could just use ssj kaio ken 11x to beat ssj4 (without all those pesky restrictions). SSJ4 ISNT THAT GREAT GET OVER IT!

You're right about the power difference between 3 and 4 being relatively small, at least compared to the other super saiyan transformations, but it's a difference nonetheless. Even if Goku mastered SSJ3 so that it didn't suffer from the rapid ki drain, he'd still only be at 80% of SSJ4 Goku power. A fight between the two might be pretty even for a short while, kind of like saiyan saga Goku vs Vegeta, but SSJ4 would eventually win based on power alone. There's no arguing that. Also, huge size can also be a disadvantage in many cases (remember Buu vs the amazing fighting candy Vegito). But I agree that as far as looks are concerned, SSJ4 loses to all other saiyan transformations (:

what?! how in the HELL is ssj3 more effective?! it's weaker and it uses up energy like crazy! and by the way, the stuff around the eyes isn't eyeshadow, its eyelids are pulled down. also, the pants are the same as always, and the hair color differs, but was never pink.(Please sign this)

You completely missed my point. I meant that ssj3 could actually be practiced and was easier to attain, And REALLY?! all you looked at was the last sentence; and I don't care if it was pink or red, eyeshadow or eyelids, it still doesnt look that good!! And SERIOUSLY you only looked at 6 words in my post. At least sign your post. you ignored the reasons above for why ssj3 is better anyway, so just give it up.

i read the whole thing, and most of it's useless bs. none of the ppl a ssj3/4 would be fighting would be even slightly intimidated by looks. they're usually the kind of people who fight terrifying monsters on a daily basis, and the blutz waves are only required for the first transformation and it's never been proven that hybrid saiyans can't achieve the form. Also, 25% is a lot when you can destroy planets with a single thought.

P.S: tons of people don't sign their posts.

I'm feeling some hostility from you so I'm just going to say one thing. When I meant it would be intimidating, I meant in the way Vegeta cowered at the power Broly eminated(thats what I meant). 25% is not a whole lot so don't rant about that. And even for the first transformation you would need a planet the size of earth to get enough waves, plus it's still too difficult to use the ape form. You ignored the part about the Super Ape too, so don't bug be about that. I didn't insult you so don't insult me. I'm not responing to you anymore so don't bother me.

I like the look

Now it looks a lot better when you look at the fanon form with gold hair and fur.


I agree with trunten3900 and could whoever is commenting on every little post be quiet. SSJ3 is better than SSJ4 if you master it and have no drawbacks

how do you know it can be mastered at all?

and there's not even that big a difference between the forms' power increase, it's just ssj3, unmastered, uses up a lot of energy and body strength though in reality adult Goku can handle it no problem, rewatch the Kid Buu fight think about how long it was, so its really just as useful as ssj4.

adult goku is crippled by ssj3. reread the kid buu fight. it completely wrecked him.

SSJ3 is cannot match up to SSJ4, even mastered. SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2, and SSJ2 is 2x SSJ. So SSJ3 is 8x SSJ. But SSJ4 is the power of the Golden Great ape controlled. The Oozaru tranformation grants 10x power. So....SSJ4 is ten times as strong as SSJ. SSJ3 is only 8 times as strong as SSJ. Even if it could be mastered with no rapid energy drain, it would still be below SSJ4.
But I agree, dude posting on every comment should stfu. This is a thread about the reasons why people might not like SSJ4. So quit repeatedly posting reasons why you think SSJ4 is the best. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you, but posting obnoxiously over and over has no place in this forum.

SS3 ftw. The hair is epic and it owns ss4.Firebo14 20:26, June 23, 2011 (UTC)


I love the fact that the forum poster dismisses any other opion by being hostile, I personaly hate how the ssj4 is so different to any other form, even oozaru.

the creator said that was the point. he wanted to make a unique form to show its power and specialty. ssj4 is a perfect saiyan. theres nothing stronger and nothing more efficient. plus technically its not a ssj form. its mastered great ape.

okay, i started this forum, so don't go making things up about what it's about.

it was meant to be a place to argue both against and for ssj4. also, what are you talking about, 25% isn't a lot? that's one fourth of their entire power!!!!!!!! considering that 1% of their power could probably wipe out an entire city with minimal effort, i would say that the change is pretty substantial!

i dont no about u guys but ur posting things that r basically made up there educated guesses about dbz but none the less made up. first off ssj4 is stronger than ssj3 but makes no sense why it would be considering all u need to achieve ssj4 is to have already become ssj1 and have a tail. so first on the official website and all the games gives u background on how much stronger u become when u turn ssj1 which is 50x so from normal--->to ssj1=50x stronger and it doesnt ever say how much stronger u become when u ascend from that so all those figures u threw out are guesses about how much stronger ssj2 and 3 are, not actual info. second off to me its not even ssj4 it another type of saiyan an off branch if u would think about this a regular ssj1 needs emotional stress and what not and u get yellow hair green eyes and a 50x energy boost but ossj1 which i call it (Oozaru super saiyan 1) needs to become a giant ssj ape and then control it self to become refined and utilize its full power but it makes no sense to even make this considering it gives us the viewer the impression that there could be a ssj2 golden oozaru and would that be ssj5 it doesnt make sense so that why ppl dont like ssj4 it doesnt make any sense

Why don't people like SSJ4, you ask?

I'm not sure how this turned into a SSJ3 vs SSJ4 thread (SSJ4 is obviously more powerful...duh), but I'll say that the reason many people (including me) disliked SSJ4 was because it looked really stupid. It was cool how it utilized both the oozaru and super saiyan transformation, but the fur and red eye shadow just don't look as awesome as gold hair and electricity, to say the least. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people thought SSJ4 looked dumb.

how would you have it then? even more gold hair and even more ridiculous length of the hair? ssj4 showed you can still be creative in designing an ultimate saiyan form, separate to the gold haired forms and the great ape forms, but at the same time a fusion of both.

i said ssj4 was stronger than ssj3 cuz ppl were throwing out incorrect info so i figured i would correct them and i basically said the reason why ppl do like ssj4 cuz how he transformed deosnt make sense

yes it does.

Difference isn't always bad

Personally I liked the ssj4 form. I did think it was really ridiculous with how much power it has. But that wasn't really enough to deter me from enjoying the GT saga. After the Freeza saga the increase in power levels was ridiculous anyways. Still loved it, but I enjoyed it more when the different between 100-200 power level was noticeable and not a difference of 1mil-2mil. For the from itself I would have liked it better if it was golden hair instead of the red-ish color it was.

2 Reasons

1. It looks completely ridiculous, even more so than SSJ3.

2. The whole transformation thing is too played out. Frieza had several forms, Cell had several forms, Buu had several forms. SSJ having a fourth form just made it even more cliche. Janemba4eva 17:39, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

but it didnt. ssj4 isnt a real ssj form and definitely not the fourth ssj form since it doesnt carry on from ssj3. its called ssj4 because people find it more conveniant but thats not its real name.

Dude, every major villain and all of the Saiyans had multiple forms. So what if SSJ4 is not a bona fide continuation of the SSJ lineage? That doesn't make it original. New forms became DB's default plot advancement device and they abused it to the point where it just became bland and annoying. Every time they introduced a new transformation past the Cell saga I thought, "really.... again?" This thread is about reasons why people dislike SSJ4, and the truth is many people dislike it because 1) they think it looks dumb and 2) they feel that transformations are played out. Even if you like SSJ4, you cannot argue with the fact that other people have these opinions. Janemba4eva 18:39, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

It is cool as.

I like it because it is original and it powerful!!!!!

Every SSJ Transformation has perks:

SSJ: When Goku first turns into SSJ he is completely BADASS! His personality is awesome and his demonstration of power just owns Frieza.

SSJ2: The look of SSJ2 is my personal favourite, the electricity around the body is brilliant and the rigid hair makes Goku look insanely cool, also SSJ2 gives us the best fight in the ENTIRE DBZ Universe SSJ2 Goku vs Majin Vegeta (Same as SSJ2 Vegeta powerwise). And when Kid Gohan turns SSJ2 he is the coolest character in the anime, he makes vegeta look soft.

SSJ3: The transformation scene is awesome, the fact that voice actor passed out from screaming in that scene should give SSJ 3 credit.Yeah the lack of eyebrows makes him look like a turd but at the end of the day, its still Goku.

SSJ4: Right okay the way Goku looks isnt as bad as some of you make out, but Vegeta in the leather pants WAS too far. Their power levels are insane and when they fuse together to make Gogeta he looks pretty sick tbf, BTW some of you say that all these transformations make it seem unrealistic?! You're in a forum talking about DRAGONBALL Z.....what part of the entire manga or anime made you think that is SHOULD be realistic?! They turn into GIANT MONKEYS IN THE MOONLIGHT YOU TURDS! haha btw all insults are meant in good meaning :D109.202.244.2 15:34, October 16, 2012 (UTC)

SSJ4 cool

SSJ4 cool because this is great strong form i dont now why you all dont like this form he is really cool and i hope Akira make the FINAL FORM!!!SUPER SAIYAN 5

In all honesty...

The art design for SSJ4 was definately different and phoenominal, especially in the SSJ4 fused form. The half Oozaru was honestly a good change that reflected on a lot of the saiyan embodiment. However, any and all power levels that ascended above SSJ2 were really insane and stupid. They could already wipe out an entire planet in SSJ2, so why was there any need to give them MORE power?

because the villains had more power and ssj3 wasnt cutting it anymore. saiyan saga vegeta was a planet buster so ssj2s are overkill.

The original SSJ was something that was seen to be worth acheiving, SSJ2 was kind of just an extension of that. SSJ3 and SSJ4 however just seemed to be thrown out there. They look cool yes, But in all reality SSJ3 just makes Goku go completely out of character, and SSJ4 was just sorta put there so they could beat Omega Shenron. If there is any transformations that should be applauded, it's the original SSJ because it was actually worked towards instead of thrown in.

no it didnt. goku was in-character, just more saiyan-like and cocky.

I like the SSJ2 form the most of course because it's stronger than SSJ form it has no drawbacks and it looks cool but having stronger and stronger forms never hurt. SSJ4 was necessary because SSJ3 had too much hindrances. {SSJ 2} (talk) 05:57, December 19, 2011 (UTC)


They do need more power, enough to wipe out a sun or maybe a hypergiant. That would be SS5.Firebo14

Cell's Solar Kamehameha could already destroy the solar system!

just disappointment

I personally don't like the design reffering to the monkey roots of the saiyan (Frieza would say "just a monkey), it looks like a form if incomplete oozaru, maybe it should be oozaru 2 form not a super saiyan,

thats what it is. its not ssj, its mastered oozaru. people call it a ssj form but they are wrong.

also i dont accept that stupid idea that a child becomes adult when transform (what were they thinking!) To be fair SSJ3 is loose its charm either but was not that ridiculous as SSJ4, spiky golden hair and green eyes enveloped with aura with same color fitted more to the power that saiyan posessed. In my opinion Super saiyan transformations should be treated as steps leading to the top (small changes in appearance betweens levels like SSJ and SSJ2), where the final level is an form allowing fighter to fully controll the unlimited amount of KI, the form of legendary super saiyan with greenish addition to hair and aura, the form which Broly who was able to reach thet level the moment he was born.

broly cant control his power and was outclassed by any ssj2 in efficency so your wrong. and broly wasnt reaching that level when he was born.

Broly was that much powerfull so authors of that movie haven't even good idea how Goku and firends schould defeat him, so they come up of energy passing wchich was lame, it shouldn't harm him in my opinion.

because your a fanboy who wanted broly to be stronger than he was.

SSJ3 was overdoing, but SSJ4 despite the power he wields, was just a dissapointment in appearance for many fans, it doesn't feel cool and powerfull.

yes it does. its mastered oozaru, so its completely diffferent to the ssj forms. its not ssj4 in the sense it followed on from ssj3. what were people expecting? even longer hair and even more sparks in the aura? ssj4 makes sense.

Besides i am curious why Toriyama allowed to develop that many transformations, does that huge power gap between villians had to be that big so proper training was not enough? Power levels through forms was not fixed to one number so instead of jumping from one level to another why not to develop all skills tah transformation offers like in case of Full Power Super Saiyan - first level allow hang up with perfect cell pretty good while ultra form of Vegata and Trunks was nothing to him.

SSJ2 was best transformation for me, after that level there should be nothing more but legendary form.

GotenTrunksInFusionReborn.png Kid Goten trunks.jpg User:Dbzfan999sig]] 3827611 std.jpg212px-Tumblr lfkjzumotl1qdkdwfo1 500.jpg 22:56, October 23, 2011 (UTC)I dont like it because SSJ3 was making buildings fall and stuff like that but SSJ4 didn't really do anything.

ssj3 didnt make anything happen in the manga. that was anime filler to make ssj3 seem more grand. ssj4 destroyed a mountain and didnt do anything else because thats the point! ssj3 is unstable and destroys things but ssj4 is perfect in terms of control.

Super saiyan forms should be golden. Period. How do you go from a golden furred ape to a red furred one and then have goku and vegeta's hair go back to black? I would have much rathered the hair and fur be golden, you know like the GOLDEN ape, or at least golden hair and brown fur if you want to argue about fusing super saiyan and the ape forms together. The overall look of ss4 is creative, but the red fur is not; it was a mistake. It doesn't make sense to go from golden to red when super saiyan has always been golden.

I like SSJ4 because of its power, but it looks nothing at all what a SuperSaiyan should look like.

Probably cause it's so differant dan da other forms and it is achieved differantlyEmperorPeelaugh575 00:59, December 19, 2011 (UTC)EmperorPeelaugh575

its because its supposed to make u the strongest in the universe but it took goku vegeta fusion in ssj4 just to take down the dark the evil dragons, and even then they could barely do it when goku took down a super demon in ssj3 -_-

I like it beacause its different.

tangents :)

to be honest the mastered oozaru transformation just makes more sense, in line with the tails and the giant ape aspect of the saiyan race. the problem is that the original ss transformation (while incredibly amazing) in and of itself was a tangent. why would a race of tan, furry tailed, dark haired humanoids that can turn into giant apes transform into some blond berserker? im not saying that ss1-3 are stupid, but they just dont make much sense if you think about it. power levels and all that stuff aside, creative wise, the super saiyan should have looked a little more like an oozaru to begin with. i want to make it clear that i am not hating on the blond, i happen to love it, it just doesnt make too much sense. why spend so much time stressing how saiyans are "monkeys" and have the power to become giant apes and calling them monkeys and then completely leaving that behind? of course, they could have thought the mastered oozaru form through a little more, there are too many disconnects between the colors and all that fun stuff, but it just makes more sense with everything we've been told about the saiyan race. just my opinion, giving y'all something to think about :) (Tavishmak)

I agree with what you're saying but when it comes to appearance it seems they gave little thought to how Super Saiyan 4 should look. {SSJ 2} (talk) 01:52, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

it's ugly.

I love because it's different from the others. It just looks so sick. 100% SUPER SAYIAN 4 01:44, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

      • Don't you think that the reason for ssj to be a golden more human look has to with the fact that they're tails were cut off. Maybe, a sayian true would turn into a more oozaru looking form if he still had his tail. No tail, no oozaru. Vegeta said a super sayian must transform to retain so much power without there body literaly giving out on them, so maybe this was a form it was forced to enter because one could not enter an oozaru state, maybe this ssj4 was the origanal super sayian form, but ssj1-3 were for tailless sayians

I love super saiyan 4, by far my favorite transformation. If someone could give me a list of games where regular goku can transform int ssj4, thatd be aswesome, i don't like the whole separate gt goku character. back on topic, ssj4 is probably the best looking and most unque transformation in the entire fictional universe, cuz if you ask me, gold spiky hair is pretty mainstream (super sonic)

super saiyan 3 and 4 info

how come ssj3 takes energy but ssj4 doesn't?

how come ssj3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 have no eyebrows but ssj4 does?

why does every transformation have either gold hair and electricity and even aura excapt ssj4?

Super Saiyan 4 was epic

Ok guys when it comes down to it, I would. Rather have badass fur, than this long ass hair that almost touches the ground. So what if SS4 was overpowered. I don't see anybody bitching about Broly, SS4 Gogeta, or Vegito. And eyeshadow is better than no eyebrows. Super Saiyan 4 was meant to look that way. And still SS4 hair looks better. Goku looks like goldylocks with that long ass hair! The black looks better! Deal with it! Super Saiyan 4 is amazing. You guys who dislike it can quit crying because you don't have epic red fur. Super Saiyan 4 bitches!

People rant for hours about how stupid it is, but then they beg for it to be put into video games like the Raging Blast series.

because it was not cool like the other trasformations Lordfreezer 20:38, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

Many people don't like SSJ4 because...

...it completely breaks the consistency of the art styles of all the other transformations. That's all.. Before anyone knew about SSJ4 we all had this subconscious idea that super saiyan forms in general are about golden hair and auras of light and glowing bodies, but then the makers of GT make the art style of SSJ4 break all the rules of super saiyan forms that have been subconsciously placed in our brains through years of witnessing ssj transformations. And naturally (this goes for anything) when we learn something new that disproves what we thought we knew about something else, it disturbs us because it proves our ability to learn things has actually been weaker than what we thought it was.. It all ties to our desire to learn and our desire to know, it's a survival thing.

Wow I kinda over explained that :p

i like ssj4 but i personlly like ssj2


teen gohan super sayian 2

I preffor SSJ3 buuuut it was still an awsome saiyan form :P24.17.91.193 01:32, March 27, 2012 (UTC)SSj3bardock

I dnt Know why the hate i actually like it and if you remember when vegeta said the original super saiyan in the flasback there was a golden great ape so i think it is the original and besides what would be better? Even longer hair? I dnt think so o and who says that you have to be ssj2 to get to ssj3? What about gothenks?

SSJ4 is awesome,

Because people are whining babies who don't want to accept GT as canon (Which it is). I can't believe some people say SSJ3 looks better. SSJ1 looks the best, SSJ2 looks practically the same (except on Teen Gohan), SSJ3 is ugly as hell, like a golden sonic the hedgehog. SSJ4 actually looks pretty awesome, it looks like it is the "true" super saiyan form, using traits from the great ape.

All in all, SSJ4 IMHO is the TRUE version of Super Saiyan (as only full blooded saiyans can do it, and it uses the characteristics of great ape).

Agree except from the ssj3 part that in my opinion looks really good on goku but still ssj4 has way better characteristics.It's so epic and badass at the same time.

Goku ssj4 gt-opening.jpg


I agree, SS4 is mt favorite of the transformations, for several reasons.

I love the idea of saiyans having to go through the several super saiyan forms in order to achieve the strenght and control needed to get to be the perfect saiyan.

I love the different look, I love the fact that after all that work, you get a big payoff, not just a continuation of the old SS line, but an entirelly new look.

I love the way it looks feral, I love how it goes back to basic Saiyan instinct and creates a perfect blend between the perfect fighter respresented by the old SS line, and the beastly strenght of the oozaru.

I love the way they have to attain the form, I love how it returns to their Oozaru origins, the idea of gaining a new form by comining super saiyan and Oozaru is just brilliant, I hate how the other forms were attained just by "getting stronger", it was boring, this made me think "OFCOURSE!".

And most of all, I HATE how all other SS forms looked alike. hair becomes a little more spikey, or longer. I dislike SS3 most of all, no eyebrows and stupid hair. SS1 and 4 are cool, all others are useless or stupid.

SS4 is by far the best and strongest looking form, the perfect embodiment of what it means to be saiyan, controlled animalistic anger. And the lack of sparkles is great, they have the aura of the wise master who doesn't need to show of, who has moved beyond that, and is secure in the knowledge that he could kick your ass at any time.

I liked the look but it was over kill

i actaully liked and didnt like Super Sayain 4

i liked the way it looked, the power etc but i didnt like it cause it felt like over kill. Personally GT should never have happend and dragonball z in general could have and should have finished after the frieza saga when Goku kinda half died half didnt.

Also some of the things like vegeta using that machine suck Ssjcarlinmullins 00:00, May 22, 2012 (UTC)


I thought it was cool but the eyeshadow was kinda stupid. But I thought SSJ4 was one of the few things that where good about GT.

um... I do...

Well, I never really saw it as a SSJ form at all. it's a completely differant transformation in my mind, that simply has the Super Siyan name on it because it's simpler. It takes place in full blooded saiyans, after they gain control of their Golden ape form. this did not happen to Baby, because he was not a full blooded saiyan, or vegeta, because he kinda cheated. I do think that SSJ forms get old after a while, so I never really cared for SSJ3, But I saw SSJ4 as new, bold, and pretty cool. that's just my opinion.

The main thing that pisses me off about SSJ4 is that it doesn't LOOK more powerful than SSJ1, 2 or 3. Remember the first time goku went SSJ1. How fucking awesome was that? If you hadn't already achieved orgasm, you did then. SSJ2? Lightning bolts, fuaark shits about to go down. When he went SSJ3? Look at that HUGE fucking mullet, cunts, its so powerful he cant keep it up for long. Remember when he turned SSJ4? Not really, allz i knows is he turned into a monkey with no golden hair. Alright, so SSJ2 was the coolest IMHO (SSJ2 kid Gohan=Best character ever) and SSJ3 was kind of stupid with the no eyebrows but SSJ4 wasn't even a form of super saiyan, so by calling it super saiyan 4 the writers pissed off a bunch of 10 year olds and chronic masturbators (such as myself) who were expecting SSJ3 to somehow be topped off in an epic fashion but instead got a half man half monkey.


,I don't know about you, but I've heard that the way the SSJ4 looks like is the real image of a saiyan.as Vegeta was talking about the legendary for the first time. .and I think SSJ4 is cool, .seriously,haven't you had enough with the golden hair already?

So many people are nobody?

I've heard people liking SS4 including myself and countless others over the internet.

thats my favorite!

I LOVE Super Saiyan 4

I love the idea of the Super Saiyan 4 transformation. It's, to me at least, a little original, because at least it didn't involve more golden hair and lightning. It's instead the combination of a Great Ape and a Super Saiyan. Now that's cool.

Only problem: I like to think it multiplies Super Saiyan 3 by 500, but it's also possible that Super Saiyan 4 multiplies base form by 500. I just wished that, to reach it, Goku would have to have control of his Super Saiyan 3 form, THEN go Golden Great Ape, control it, and then go Super Saiyan 4, because then it would multiply base by 200,000, not the 500 that GT's Super Saiyan 4 multiplies base form by. (am I right on my multipliers and stuff?)

Other than that, I love Super Saiyan 4.Disasters GoOn 01:44, July 23, 2012 (UTC)Disasters GoOn

To me

To me its a Wolf Saiyan.AREA95000 03:25, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

I think....


  1. Super Saiyajin 4s don't have golden and spiky straight hair.
  2. They don't have the bio-electricity sparkling around their body.
  3. They are less atractive than previous Super Saiyajin transformations.
  4. They don't seem to have much power according to their outfit.
  5. They have a tail which is MUCH MORE ANNOYING... if we consider though that thing might be favoured by the others.

So.. these are my suggestions.. Mystery reveals!~Luster was here?~Where is he now?~ 03:42, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

No gold hair

I think it's because people have gotten used to a Super Saiyan being a golden haired warrior and that's what they picture when they think Super Saiyan. To suddenly have a Super Saiyan level have slightly longer hair and red fur was too much of a change from the vision of a Super Saiyan.


A lot of people complaining about Goku being too "monkey-ish" or that SSJ4 doesn't look as cool as SSJ3. To be honest, SSJ4 brings us back to what Goku actually was in Dragon Ball...A MONKEY BOY. If anyone has read the Chinese novel "Journey to the West" Goku is based off Sun Wukong. Long story short, SSJ4 is the only SSJ transformation that gives us the originality of Gokus character. SSJ1 was epic and so was SSJ2. SSJ3 also looks great, but if anyone thinks SSJ4 should have longer hair, seriously doesn't know much about DBZ. You can't get longer hair than SSJ3 (you could but it would look annoying), so that's where SSJ4 merged the Saiyan Humanoid with the Great Ape transformation. The RED fur shows the rage of the SSJ4 transformation, and the eye trims could be something to explain why a successor of SSJ3 stil has eye brows. All in all, every SSJ transformation has been awesome including SSJ4. A lot of people don't like it because they just hate GT in general, which is a poor reason to hate such a magnificant transformation. If it were up to most of the fans here...SSJ4 would look so bad, I don't think I would even call it DB/Z/GT material. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 16:06, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Super saiyan 4 not final form

People like it but it seems weird not seeing the gold hair. I believe that the ssj4 is not the final form. How is it a great ape can pretty much crush any opponent. At ssj4 a saiyan still can't control the full power of the great ape. Maybe during the transformation they stopped at the point where they had a body full of fur. I think a ssj5 looks just like a ssj4 just with out the fur and the tail and hair are golden instead. My theory pretty much, ssj4 is an incomplete transformation. If that makes sense

What's so weird about it? Freeza's final transformation doesn't match any of his first 3 forms either, but people still love it. SSJ4 is perfect IMO. Of course I'm not putting down your opinion, I just want hear your reasoning as to why it is "weird". Golden hair is a SSJ trademark...that much is true. But a lot of the final forms of characters stray away from the first number of forms said character has, in a big way. Cell was another one, in a way. Both his first two forms had a dark green shade, but his perfect form has a lighter green and many other changes that the first two don't. Hatchiyak was another one, in which his final form had extra details that the other 3 didn't. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 06:04, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

The reason why I don't like Super Saiyan 4 is because of the design. I mean....How can you go from having Golden fur to Red fur? It would've probably looked better if his fur stayed Golden, maybe abit like this http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx64/tooltra/Ssj4Goku.png

It is the one good thing about DBGT.

I love it. I think it is original and it fits the Saiyan image since they are mokey people. I think people think that it is bad because it was part of GT. So the amazing form is stuck with shitty storylines and crappy characters which devalues the transformation as a whole.

SSJ 4 not real SSJ level.

I personally don't like it because I think its not an original form and it can only be achieved by saiyans of pure blood.The forms of SSJ 1-3 are true in the the sense that the user's hair colour has changed,the body size increases drastically (especially USSJ) the increased level also unfortunately means that the amount of purity in the heart decreases ( have you noticed that SSJ2 Gohan and Goku are oddly cocky and SSJ3 Goku's eyes have the shade under the eyelids,his voice is deeper and his cockiness increases) SSJ 4 cannot be considered an actual level by me because in my opinion,Funimation had more dominance in the DBGT projects than Akira Toriyama did(which is why I'm not a big fan of DBGT.) That's just my opinion though.

The Golden Great Ape is the first picture we see of what a Super Saiyan was supposed to look like. So much for originality -_- Oh and I think you mean Toei instead of FUNimation. FUNimation Studios only provides English dubs for Animes (from what I'm aware of). They don't have anything to do with the GT project, other than getting a few vioce actors. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 20:19, October 14, 2012 (UTC)

i love ssj4 good form X3

My Opinion on SSJ4

Personally, I love the concept of the SSJ4 for many reasons; a total control of power, a more agile frame, etc.

My personal opinion (not factual, but plausible) on SSJ4 is that it's a Saiyan's true Super form, as opposed to the golden haired SSJ1-3 forms. If you consider SJJ's 1 to 3 as just a super-powered Saiyan as opposed to a Super Saiyan, you're left with the conclusion that the Original Super Saiyan is in fact the uncontrolled transformation of a super Saiyan in GGA form.

Although it takes a character to be in his SSJ1-3 form to become a Golden Great Ape, it can still be argued that the three transformations are just super-powered ascensions of an ordinary Saiyan, and not a true Super Saiyan form, based on the appearance of a SSJ4 being closer to the original appearance of the un-powered character covered in fur with a more muscular frame, and the fact Saiyans are monkey people. This mean that a true Super Saiyan is someone who has learnt to control his or her Great Ape form, which multiplies any Saiyans power by a factor of 10, regardless of their power level.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and I know it will be disputed and corrected, but I believe it's a good theory and it's the reason why I think Super Saiyan 4 is the best SSJ transformation :)

A quick note on the fictional SSJ5: I believe if it were to ever become reality, SSJ5 would in fact be True SSJ2, and Goku may have obtained this power through his training with Shenron after DBGT, based on SSJ5 Goku's appearence being that of an older SSJ4 Goku.

Grantallica (talk) 16:03, October 15, 2012 (UTC)


Because it's fucking pink. At least, that's why I hate it. Tokeupdude (talk) 17:18, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

Actually it's red. If your colour blind, than I'm sorry. SuperGogeta91 (talk) 17:20, October 15, 2012 (UTC)

SSj4 is the cool

Well for one when Vegeta explained the Super Sayin in the Freiza saga it was a golden great ape aka origanal super sayian form.

Old kai already new about this form so it was used before in the past.

And goku gets to keep is black hair just a little bit wilder style

And ? Ssj 3 got raped by Baby while Ssj4 kick his ass173.21.133.192 23:21, November 24, 2012 (UTC)Vegetafan7231

Yin and Yang

It has to be considered that the inclusion of the great ape form again, a fairly important ability, was great. The series needed it, and it tied well into the omega shenron stuff because it too cast an eye back into the past.

That being said, there are huge reasons for fans to hiss. The red fur has to be mentioned. It is an odd red, that seems pink in some lights, and its hue eludes explanation. The out of nowhere outfit is also a glaring plothole, PARTICULARLY because during the SSJ4 transformation goku appears naked as both adult and child.

Furthermore, and i must emphasise this, people who are not satisfied with this and wished for a more direct ttansformation from SSJ3 do not hate creativity and unique ideas, and did not all expect or want more hair and bigger eyebrows. To be blunt, that argument ranks among the stupidest ive ever heard. There were a thousand million possibilities, as there always are for any character design.imagine, for example, if gokus hair became pure flowing yellow energy. His entire eyes could go green, and yeah, why not add in some gold fur to emphasise the monkey heritage. But to go from child to adult, from gold to red, from green eyes to yellow, with little to no exploration or elaboration on the whys and wherefores.... It was frustrating to me as a fan because it made me feel like they just didnt care at all anymore, like they could just slap another level on without giving thebfans what they needed to accept it.

....sigh. Pretty sure this thread is extinct anyway.

I would like to address certain points you made and how wrong they are. First and foremost, how is gaining new clothing ever a plothole? People always seem to start an argument on how SSJ4 "sucks" because of this little detail right here. SSJ3 shows that the user doesn't have eyebrows, yet when they revert back to Base/SSJ1/2, they have their eyebrows again. According to your theory, this is a "glaring polthole." Again the Fusion Dance gives the Saiyans a new costume regardless of whatever attire they had on previous. Does this mean this is also a plothole? So the Anime and even Manga are as guilty as GT. Not to mention that it's not an "out of nowhere" outfit, it is their previous outfit with a different colour to it, due to the radiation. Secondly, the design of the SSJ4 has nothing to do with SSJ1 2 and 3, as it is known to be the TRUE SSJ form. Naturally, the true SSJ form should combine the Saiyans natural hair colour with the Oozaru/Great Ape transformation, as that is the proper characteristics of a true SSJ. The red fur can't really be explained, but neither can SSJ1 giving blonde hair or why SSJ3 loses the eyebrows. It's how the transformation is...deal with it. The child to adult detail...for God's sake this is a DragonBall Wiki you're on, use the information givin to you. He reverts back to adult, because the SSJ4 transformation breaks any wish made to alter the users appearance. This was made clear even within the show. With that out of the way, you do realize that nowhere in DBZ is it EVER mentioned why SSJ has blonde hair and blue/green eyes right? No one says "well the SSJ transformation gives the user blonde hair because so and so..." It's never mentioned. Why start with SSJ4? I guess people feel the need to hate solely because it's GT. Fine by me, just as long as you understand that the majority of what your complaining about is either:

1) Present in DragonBall/DragonBallZ. Or.

2) There is a logical explanation within the show.

There are a few problems with GT, like how Android 19 is seen in hell even though he's a pure Android, but DBZ also has inconsistencies so nothing to worry about. And for the record, the thread isn't extinct if there are new comments...SuperGogeta91 (talk) 18:53, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, I love it

I really don't know how some people don't like ssj4. Ssj4 vegeta looked a little weird but it was still awesome. Goku ssj4 looked perfect. I do like ssj3 more though--Ssj3gogeta96 (talk) 20:31, December 26, 2012 (UTC)ssj3gogeta96


I personally didn'y like it because it was more of a condensed great ape maybe it should be called that.:)

I like it

I like it it is a cool form and it is stronger than ssj 3

I think it isn't a SS level I think it's a different form, somebody uploaded a SS4 image of Goku but with gold hair and gold fur, I thought that SS4 would look like his original orange uniform but with SS4 hair style but with the gold colour, I believe that the Ss4 appearance in GT is sort of. Great Ape power but with a normal body

You guys remember the myth about the original super saiyan? A being who's power was so great it destroyed the saiyans original planet. The silhouhette showed of the first super saiyan was an oozaru? It was golden. I believe that ssj4 is the original power of the super saiyan, the true super saiyan. It would've happened even if toriyama kept making it.

DBZpiccoloFAN1's answer

for me it just dosn't feel like a super saiyan.. it should have ended at 3

they should have just made it like the current ssj4 without the fur and with golden hair and a golden tail (keep the red eye lids)

plus its GT so not many people will like it (im not a GT hater)

LittleMissNamek's answer

I think they don't like the pink fur or something like that. I, on the other hand have no problem with it. Goku looks sexy in it. ^/////^  LittleMissNamek (talk) 01:08, February 10, 2013 (UTC)


Because its Basic.

HyperdrivePics answer

It was alright for me, but the fact that it really had no consistency in power levels really threw me off.  Like when Goku and Vegeta would fight Omega Shenron in SSJ4 form and be about a match for him.  Then the other Z Fighters would jump in to distract Shenron as regular Saiyans and seem to pose a threat to him.  What?

I like it

I like the ssj4 or the mastered Oozaru. Ofcurse turning red from gold does not make sense but this is bragon ball world, evrything here makes no sense. Also ssj with golde hair is not only for those without tail because Bardock turned into a ssj in episode of Bardock. And what we call ssj4 is not a ssj form it is a mastered great ape.  

I like ssj4, the form was original and fresh. The reasons why some don't like it are pretty ignorant (with the exception of those who simply don't like it because of their own tastes, that's OK, everybody can't like the same stuff). What i like the most of the ssj4 is that every ssj4 has it's unique subtles changes, like Vegeta who has darker red fur and blue (or green) eyes (althoug it coud also be that those are side effects of transforming without having a tail before the change). I would also clarify that no half saiya-jin (really) tried to transfom into ssj4 so we don't know if it can be done. And for those who dislike the requirements for ssj4, let me tell you that they are really superior to the way ssjg was created. It was created by Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru and its not the first time as i personally like better the anime version of the yardrat over Akira Toriyama's for example. What i love about Battle of gods is that this movie was the way Akira wanted it to be and the super saiya-jin god design was his. This proof my theory that Akira lacks imagination and original ideas when it comes to new ssj forms, and giving goku a reddish-purple hair and red eyes was exactly what i needed to shut the mouths of those who said that the red color doesn't have anything to do with ssj. On top of that is called SUPER SAIYA-JIN god, making ssj4 even more official, ANY saiya-jin transformation (with the exception of great ape) is a ssj. The ssj4 is the fusion of the 2 saiya-jin transformations, ssj and oozaru making it (like it or not) the ultimate ssj form.Larun (talk) 19:02, October 18, 2013 (UTC)

SSJ4 the best SSJ transformation??

Although the forum is "How come nobody likes SSJ4?" It doesn't seem to be the main topic. I don't like doing this but I have to clear a couple of things up. Firstly the forum: There will always be haters no matter what, so that is why "nobody" likes SSJ4. Even though I see nothing wrong with it. But it doesn't state anywhere that it only takes a SSJ to become the Golden Great Ape nor does it say it takes the power of a SSJ3. However, if Oozaru is 10x stronger than prior form, and SSJ4 is 10x stronger than SSJ3, then it would mean that it does require atleast being able to be a SSJ3 to become a Golden Great Ape. Especially, since the Golden Great Ape is supposed to be equal with SSJ4, only SSJ4 has control. (Vegeta could control the Oozaru form.) So SSJ4 might be a little better the Golden Great Ape. If Oozaru is just 10x base form, and Golden Great Ape is just a SSJ transformation with a tail. Then the Golden Great Ape is 500x stronger than the base form. Also, by that logic it would depend on the level of the Saiyan. A SSJ2 that turned into an Oozaru/Golden Great Ape would be 1000x stronger than base and a SSJ3 that transformed would be 4000x stronger than the base. Which is what it is supposed to. But a SSJ Golden Oozaru would be stronger than a SSJ3. As would SSJ2, and SSJ3 Golden Oozaru. SSJ4 is the perfected form. Since SSJG is around 20x SSJ4, A SSJG that went Oozaru would be 200X a SSJ4. I suppose that would be the strongest form a Saiyan could reach. Remember SSJ4 is the perfected form of Golden Oozaru. So a SSJ4 is stronger than all forms except the SSJG and SSJG Great Ape.

I love SSJ4!!!

It would be utterly simple minded and uncreative to make the most powerful transformation just have more spikey hair. Come on guys. Don't get me wrong I do also love the look of the golden hair SSJ. But change is not always a bad thing. If you think about it, look of SSJ4 actually makes more sense than the golden hair warrior. The SSJ4 takes on more traits of the Oozaru which is the transformation that makes the Saiyans unique to all other races in the universe. The only thing that is odd about it is the red fur. But I still love the way the red fur looks. It would make sense that to transform to a higher level of power that the being should have to dig into what makes their race special. And for the guy that said that SSJ4 is not a real transformation because it was not attained the right way? BOLOGNA! Goku was arguably ready to reach the next level of SSJ. He was training for 5 years as an adult and seen some pretty good battles when he was turned into a kid. If you guys don't remember, Goku himself states that becoming a supersaiyan happens out of a need. As for the part about his tail being artificially pulled out, I think that just goes back to where the saiyans have to dig into what makes them unique (Oozaru) to reach the next level. Toriyama is the designer of SSJ4, I would bet good money that is the idea that he had when designing him.Iamtherebel24 (talk) 22:38, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Just kinda off

The red fur is kinda random after the previous transformations being gold, even if it is a "mastered Ozaru" state, where does the red come from, and it makes clothes.....  I also don't get how it just randomly turns Goku back into an adult, just a lot of things off about the transformation, and I also don't get how it varies depending on the saiyan, the other SSJ forms had the same change for each person.

SSJ3Vegeto (talk) 03:51, October 9, 2014 (UTC)


I like it.--Aang13 (talk) 02:10, July 4, 2015 (UTC)


I wouldnt say that people dont like it its just that SS4 was in GT and people probably ignored it because of that and we have SSG so people probably just chose the newest one. I personally like it and how it was obtained the one thing I dont like is the look I mean it is OKAY but I think the creators could have done better. I like SSG because of the better appearence than SS4 I just dont like how it was obtained and Goku also doesnt like how it is obtained.