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Forum Dragon Ball Kai - How do we treat it in relation to DBZ?

I was pondering how we should go about modifying the new episode infobox to accommodate Dragon Ball Kai episodes, and I'm a little lost as to how we should treat DBK in relation to DBZ. DBK obviously isn't an independent series — it's a rehash of DBZ. That said, should we treat it more like an edited line of DBZ, or more like a series of its own? Here are a few places where this would apply:

  • On character infoboxes, we have a list of icons representing which series a character appears in. Do we consider DBK to be part of DBZ and simply list DBZ, or do we consider them separate series and list both DBK and DBZ?
  • When we semantically search for DBZ episodes (specifically, when we search for episodes in anime series #2), both the original uncut and the edited episodes will appear (assuming we don't specifically search for episodes that have Property:Is edited set to true or false). Do we want the same behavior for DBK? (IE, when we search for DBZ episodes with no other search parameters, should DBK episodes appear?) Basically, do DBK episodes belong to the DBZ series?
  • The episode infoboxes also show an icon indicating which series the episode belongs to. Should DBK episodes show the DBZ icon, or a DBK icon?

My feeling is that we should treat DBK as a subset of DBZ. Character infoboxes can simply list that a character is in DBZ, without having to specify whether or not they're in DBK. (It can be noted somewhere on the article if a character appears in DBZ but does not appear in DBK.) DBK episodes would be considered part of anime series #2, and DBK episode infoboxes would cite DBZ as their source series (though their heading can still state that they are DBK episodes).

Note that there still would be a way to differentiate between DBK, edited DBZ and uncut DBZ. (There has to be in order for the episode infobox to correctly pick up links for the previous and next episodes.) This means it would still be possible to search specifically for DBK episodes (excluding non-DBK DBZ episodes), or to search specifically for non-DBK DBZ episodes. I'm thinking the best way to do this is probably to expand the is edited property to something along the lines of a series version property, where valid values could be uncut, edited or kai. This would also ease the addition of other versions of the series if more appear in the future.

What do you guys think? -- Nonoitall talk contr 11:03, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

I think Kai should be classified as it's own series. I mean, the removal of the majority of filler is a pretty huge change. It'd help to classify canon from non-canon (for the most part). -Kaonohiokala 8:27 AM HST, 21 September 2010

But the manga is really what dictates what's 'canon' and what's not. (Though we leave it up to our readers to determine whether they want to accept anime filler as canon or not.) And the edited episodes also remove a great deal of content from the uncut anime (over 20%), but are not considered a series of their own. From what I can tell, the only thing that really differentiates DBK from uncut DBZ that doesn't differentiate edited DBZ from uncut DBZ is that there's no 'Z' in DBK's series name. (That's my two or three cents anyway.) Sorry if I sound like I'm putting down DBK — that's not my intent. -- Nonoitall talk contr 20:34, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm... I dunno, DBKai has a lot of changes going for it. I mean, even though it's just a re-versioning of DBZ, we still have re-done voice acting, a new script, and major scene changes. Especially with the removal of filler, DBKai is a real stand-out from the many different versions of DBZ. -Kaonohiokala 1:39 PM HST, 21 September 2010

I agree Nonoitall, I would prefer to treat it as sort of edited version of Dragon Ball Z. Most of it is the same anyways, and like you said, there would still be that way to differentiate between them.  SSJ4 Lewich  talk  contribs  10:44, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Nonoital and ssj4Lewich, we should put kai along with the other versions of dbz.While there many things changed in kai, Dragon Ball kai is still an other version of dbz and not a new series.ASSJ R GThe Ultra ThunderSSGTransfo4Edit Countcontribs 11:11, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

yes. i clearly think dat dbz shud be seen above db kai and db kai shud be looked at as the secondary. Majin-VegetaTheDarkPrinceReturns!1123983673 ajinVegeta 13:46, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Even before seeing your opinion on the matter Nonoitall, I was thinking along the same lines. The differences between the uncut and edited versions are VERY similar to the differences between them and DBK. The main diferentiator of DBK is that it was created on Japan as a new version of the series, while the edited version was created as a censured and simpler version in America, AND that DBK has a slightly different name. Both of them have different voice acting, filler, music.
So, I would definitely see DBK as another "version" of DBZ, and treat DBK, as well as Uncut and Edited, as three different versions of the series. This would imply that the infobox would show the series as DBZ, and the "version" as Uncut, Edited or DBK (or something along those lines); that there would be navs for the episodes of the three versions; etc. It makes no sense to treat is as a different series, when basically, it is the same series, only re-edited.--Sega381 14:15, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with many here. DBK should be considered a filtered version of FUNimation's dub of DBZ (I think it's important that is noted), or as just another FUNimation dub of DBZ entirely. Either way, it is not a new series, and just a version of an already existing one. GTGohanBlueGroup6blue400 1203477316 wwwtengoverguenzablogspotcom-luis-v-blue-goku 15:20, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

My thoughts on the three situations Nonoitall describes in the header:
Situation 1- Just a DBZ icon is enough, because every character appearing in DBZK is also in DBZ.
Situation 2- Treat it like an edited version of DBZ for searches, because that's what it is (plus minor additions of fight scenes).
Situation 3- Same as with characters, an episode whose events occur in DBZK also definitely appear in DBZ, so just a DBZ icon is fine.
-- SSJ4 Goku(2) 16:25, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion we should just see DBK as a 'graphic, shortened' improve of DBZ. So i do agree we should treat it like an edited version of DBZ. Bardock. 16:32, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and agree with Nonoitall on this subject. DBKai is just a shortened reversion; there isn't anything particularly different about the cut series that needs to incorporate separate articles. We should just link the DBKai appearing characters in their infoboxes as stated and that should do it, since the characters don't actually change... just the appearance ratio does. All it is really is just an edited version of DBZ. - Zarbon by raykugen-d2ygchz PrinceZarbon talk contribZarbon ava3 17:01, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
I agree that we should view Dragon Ball Z Kai as a revised version of the original series. There are some alterations such as scene changes and different voice acting and music, but it is a remaking of Dragon Ball Z and generally not a different series. 510253-3411355-gohanSS2 SSJ2AJB talk contrib GohanSuperSaiyanArmsUp 20:29, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

I think that using the DBZ symbol might confuse things. I completely agree that DBZK is just a revised version of DBZ, but the two aren't the same. I think putting in the DBZK symbol would help. As for character infoboxes, I think that the DBZ should be used, but for episode boxes, I believe it should have it's own symbol.BrolySuperSaiyanSuperSaiyn3BrolyDarkgohan 23:11, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Why add a new icon? All of the characters that appear in Kai are in DBZ as well. Some characters are taken out (like Launch - except for the opening and closing sequences), but none are added. There can easily be a note on the pages of those that do not appear instead of adding an icon onto all of the characters that DO appear. Not only is this less work, but serves as an inclusive, instead of exclusive approach to organization. It would be more effecient that way. GTGohanBlueGroup6blue400 1203477316 wwwtengoverguenzablogspotcom-luis-v-blue-goku 01:16, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
SS3Broly meant adding a new icon for the EPISODE infoboxes, not the character infoboxes. In any event, if the episodes are going to indicate the version of DBZ they refer to, it might as well be a text or an icon, BESIDES the DBZ icon to identify the "base" series.--Sega381 15:50, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with everyone here. While DBK is a new series in a sense, it is still essentially DBZ, and so should be treated as such. DBZ should remain as the dominant series, so to speak. This way, we can please old fans and new fans of the meta-series who were introduced through DBZK.  SSWerty  04:23, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with may of you, Dragon Ball Z Kai is just an edited version of the series and should be treated as such.
07:29, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
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