| Forum → Broly(First coming) vs Perfect cell |  Post
|
[[Category:{{{1}}}|Broly(First coming) vs Perfect cell]]
Heres proof hes stronger! Remember goku did a kamehameha to the face to both broly and cell? Well it hurt cell but broly was smiling through it. Plus Broly's never used his full power in a fight just imagine how strong he would be then. Oh and if your gonna say cell because you dont like broly or love cell dont even bother.
to know who will win[]
use scouters. devices that measure power levels in Dragon Ball Z.
I'd say Cell.[]
Goku beat Broly at FPSS1 (albeit with his friends chi) but it took a SS2 to finally beat Cell. Tokeupdude 00:16, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
Logically/Mathematically speaking, Broly
Aside from the above mention about his difference in reaction to Goku's Kamehameha at point blank range, there's also the fact that Broly also was able to take on and defeat two FPSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek without much effort on his part, and was unable to even be hurt by their attacks. He also implies in the same fight (after his first power up) that he wasn't even using the full extent of his power, either. Basically, going by official statements from the Daizenshuus and the anime itself, Broly was able to defeat with barely any effort what would have been the equivalent of nine super saiyans, or about 450 base level saiyans. Heck, Vegeta even mentions says "We're mere grunts fighting an entire army!" just before transforming into an ASSJ and regaining his confidence. Cell, on the other hand, was unable to beat a SSJ2, and it's also stated that a USSJ is also far stronger than him (and had it not been for the speed issue with USSJ, it certainly would have destroyed Cell right then and there.). In fact, probably the only SSJ transformation (that actually can be measured and has an absolute placement. Meaning, SSJ4 doesn't count, as any form of a Super Saiyan could transform into it as long as they transform into a Golden Great Ape and master its form.) that could even stand a chance against Broly's LSSJ form is Super Saiyan 3, and even that is a small chance at beating him, at best. However, Broly's LSSJ form's (first appearance) power limit (or the closest to one that Broly could ever have) is probably equal to, if not slightly weaker than, 11 Super Saiyans, at least, as implied when they donated their powers (assuming they actually did donate all of their reserves, Goku's FPSSJ form was also magnified with an SSJ2 (Gohan, and yes, he did have the SSJ2 form by that point, he just doesn't realize it, as evidenced by Cell's Mighty Breakdown), a USSJ (possibly two, assuming Vegeta did actually become one), an ASSJ, and a Super Namek.). At this point, all evidences point to Broly being stronger. I'm looking at it rationally and in a mathematic/statistic/scientific viewpoint, anyways, and has nothing to do with whether I am a fan of Broly or not (to be honest, I don't care one way or another about him). <a data-rte-meta="%7B%22type%22%3A%22internal%22%2C%22text%22%3A%22Weedle%20McHairybug%22%2C%22link%22%3A%22User%3AWeedle%20McHairybug%22%2C%22wasblank%22%3Afalse%2C%22noforce%22%3Atrue%2C%22wikitext%22%3A%22%5B%5BUser%3AWeedle%20McHairybug%7CWeedle%20McHairybug%5D%5D%22%7D" data-rte-instance="530-7383639825070f041cc912" href="/wiki/User:Weedle_McHairybug" title="User:Weedle McHairybug">Weedle McHairybug</a> 00:40, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
"In fact, probably the only SSJ transformation (that actually can be measured and has an absolute placement. Meaning, SSJ4 doesn't count, as any form of a Super Saiyan could transform into it as long as they transform into a Golden Great Ape and master its form.) that could even stand a chance against Broly's SSJ form is a Super Saiyan 3, and even that is a small chance at beating him, at best."
^So in other words what you basically should've said, is that Goku was as strong as a SSJ3 near the end of Movie 8. By absorbing power from three near dead Saiyans and a near dead Super Namek, Goku was as powerful as when he was fighting Kid Buu? Damn, why didn't they just do that all the time to defeat every villain instead of trying to ascend Super Saiyan LOL? Just say you're a Broly fanboy, and you won't look ignorant. Forgot to sign. <a data-rte-meta="%7B%22type%22%3A%22internal%22%2C%22text%22%3A%22SuperGogeta91%22%2C%22link%22%3A%22User%3ASuperGogeta91%22%2C%22wasblank%22%3Afalse%2C%22noforce%22%3Atrue%2C%22wikitext%22%3A%22%5B%5BUser%3ASuperGogeta91%7CSuperGogeta91%5D%5D%22%7D" data-rte-instance="530-7383639825070f041cc912" href="/wiki/User:SuperGogeta91" title="User:SuperGogeta91">SuperGogeta91</a> (<a data-rte-meta="%7B%22type%22%3A%22internal%22%2C%22text%22%3A%22talk%22%2C%22link%22%3A%22User%20talk%3ASuperGogeta91%22%2C%22wasblank%22%3Afalse%2C%22noforce%22%3Atrue%2C%22wikitext%22%3A%22%5B%5BUser%20talk%3ASuperGogeta91%7Ctalk%5D%5D%22%7D" data-rte-instance="530-7383639825070f041cc912" href="/wiki/User_talk:SuperGogeta91" title="User talk:SuperGogeta91">talk</a>) 01:50, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
Forum → Broly(First coming) vs Perfect cell[]
"Remember goku did a kamehameha to the face to both broly and cell? Well it hurt cell but broly was smiling through it."
you took it completely out of context.
1. goku didnt charge it for nearly as long vs broly.
2. goku didnt catch broly off guard but cell didnt have any sort of guard up.
3. cell was operating at heavily supressed power level to match gokus level but broly was stomping him.
"Plus Broly's never used his full power in a fight "
prove it. you cant.
"Broly also was able to take on and defeat two FPSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek without much effort on his part,"
so could cell.
"He also implies in the same fight (after his first power up) that he wasn't even using the full extent of his power, either"
he tried to raise his ki but couldnt do it as it just overflowed. he was already full power.
"was able to defeat with barely any effort what would have been the equivalent of nine super saiyans"
no he was just able to beat 3 which doesnt mean hes twice as strong as each of them. gohan beat 7 cell jrs, doesnt mean hes worth 21 ssj1s.
"Heck, Vegeta even mentions says "We're mere grunts fighting an entire army!""
it was a figure of speech. and english dub shouldnt be used in debates.
"Cell, on the other hand, was unable to beat a SSJ2,"
a ssj2 that broly couldnt beat either.
"d it's also stated that a USSJ is also far stronger than him"
no. trunks was significantly below mssj goku, based on statements. plus cell proved he was lying because he powered up the same way trunks did and piccolo said cell had surpassed trunks once again.
"Meaning, SSJ4 doesn't count, as any form of a Super Saiyan could transform into it as long as they transform into a Golden Great Ape and master its form"
wrong. if ssj4 doesnt count then broly doesnt either. and the gt perfect files called ssj4 the true legendary state.
"could even stand a chance against Broly's LSSJ form is Super Saiyan 3, and even that is a small chance at beating him,"
is that why goku stated he hadnt used ssj3 on anyone except janemba and majin buu? broly is weaker than ssj2 goku handily.
"Goku's FPSSJ form was also magnified with an SSJ2"
how the fuck does near dead base saiyans give goku the power to get twice as strong as when he was fresh?
"Goku's FPSSJ form was also magnified with an SSJ2 (Gohan, and yes, he did have the SSJ2 form by that point, he just doesn't realize it, as evidenced by Cell's Mighty Breakdown), a USSJ (possibly two, assuming Vegeta did actually become one), an ASSJ, and a Super Namek.). "
no it wasnt. it was magnified by a bunch of base saiyans who had been damaged almost beyond life.
"At this point, all evidences point to Broly being stronger"
evidence that is bullshit and easily dismantled. if brolys as strong as you say, he should have killed everyone with his pinky finger.
"you took it completely out of context.
1. goku didnt charge it for nearly as long vs broly.
2. goku didnt catch broly off guard but cell didnt have any sort of guard up.
3. cell was operating at heavily supressed power level to match gokus level but broly was stomping him. "
2. Broly didn't seem to know what the ability was, either, and normally a person who doesn't know of someones ability would be caught off-guard.
3. So was Broly. Besides which, Cell also stated that he would expose his true power level, and given the fact that Goku and Cell started becoming far more fast-paced and powering up by the time Cell decided to use the entire Earth as his battle ring, he wasn't kidding.
"prove it. you cant. "
Let's see, Broly said "If you'd just let me kill you all before, you wouldn't be in this kind of pain now: You're all a complete and utter waste of Saiyan Blood!" That would imply that he was holding back his full power.
"so could cell. "
Not really, he only fought one-on-one, and he even admitted that he can't beat Trunks by sheer power. And it is completely unlikely that he'd actually beat two SSJs teamed up, given the fact that the Daizenshuu officially stated that a SSJ2's power is equivalent to two SSJs.
"he tried to raise his ki but couldnt do it as it just overflowed. he was already full power. "
I'm talking about what he said when resuming his fight with Trunks, Goku, Gohan, and Piccolo.
"no he was just able to beat 3 which doesnt mean hes twice as strong as each of them. gohan beat 7 cell jrs, doesnt mean hes worth 21 ssj1s. "
ASSJ = Three Super Saiyans (Vegeta remarked that the ASSJ form tripled his strength, and the fact that he remarks that Trunks will succeeds him if he fails to beat Cell implies that Trunks' ASSJ form has a similar power level)
MSSJ = SSJ (technically the same strength as a SSJ, but it consumes ki more slowly)
SSJ2 = two SSJs (Daizenshuu)
SSJ3 = four SSJ2s = eight SSJs (Daizenshuu)
Super Namek: Greater than or equal to SSJ (Sources vary, but the Cell Saga implies that Super Nameks are stronger than Super Saiyans)
"a ssj2 that broly couldnt beat either. "
Actually, Goku implies that Broly had more than a chance to beat Gohan in SSJ2 form (Goku told Gohan to get out of there when Broly essentially threatened Gohan. Going by the fact that Cell's Mighty Breakdown had Goku flashing back to Gohan turning into a SSJ2 during their training at ROSAT, as well as Goku's heavy implications at having a plan to defeat Cell despite the fact that he himself doesn't even stand a chance against him, that pretty much means that Gohan does indeed possess the SSJ2 transformation, even if he didn't realize it at the time. And logically speaking, if Gohan's SSJ2 form was indeed stronger than Broly's LSSJ form, then please explain why Goku would actually tell Gohan to flee instead of, oh, I don't know, actually encouraging him to draw out his full power against Broly like he did with Cell later on?)
"no. trunks was significantly below mssj goku, based on statements. plus cell proved he was lying because he powered up the same way trunks did and piccolo said cell had surpassed trunks once again. "
No, actually, Power-wise at least, USSJ is far above MSSJ: Vegeta explains to Trunks that MSSJ isn't about "Powering Up", it's actually about conserving Ki energy to fight longer, meaning that brute power-wise, USSJ's stronger. Speed wise, yes, MSSJ is definitely better.
"is that why goku stated he hadnt used ssj3 on anyone except janemba and majin buu? broly is weaker than ssj2 goku handily. "
Considering the fact that in story mode for Shin Budokai, which, BTW, is the game adaptation of Fusion Reborn, actually had SSJ2 Goku being defeated by LSSJ Broly, you're going to need a lot more than that, plus the fact that the movie actually seems to ignore Bio-Broly. Heck, even the games ignore Bio-Broly. Besides which, the Broly chapter for Burst Limit had Broly defeating what was clearly a Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan.
"how the fuck does near dead base saiyans give goku the power to get twice as strong as when he was fresh?"
It's called giving away your reserve energy.
"no it wasnt. it was magnified by a bunch of base saiyans who had been damaged almost beyond life. "
"At this point, all evidences point to Broly being stronger"
"evidence that is bullshit and easily dismantled. if brolys as strong as you say, he should have killed everyone with his pinky finger."
Yeah, and Frieza could have easily just killed everyone with a bat of an eye against Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Krillin, even Goku before he became a Super Saiyan. Instead, he drew out the fight to be unnecessarily long just to savor their pain. Plus, he's a Saiyan, so naturally he wouldn't want to just destroy the enemy as he feels that destroying the enemy without them even being able to at least fight back would be fun. Broly pretty much did the same thing. How long a fight has to take doesn't equate to how much power it takes. Whether he actually ends up being wounded in the fight, however, does give at least an estimate, and given the fact that they couldn't hurt him prior to the energy transfer, I sincerely doubt that the combination of two ASSJs, two MSSJs, and a Super Namek (all of which combined does indeed equate to nine super saiyans) would actually wound him, and if the equivalent of nine saiyans couldn't even wound him prior to the energy transfer, why should a Super Saiyan 2 have any chance, even when Goku himself implies that even Gohan's SSJ2 form doesn't stand a chance. Weedle McHairybug 18:17, May 11, 2011 (UTC)
You both are wrong. Cell wins. It took a SSJ2 to beat Cell yet it took a MSSJ(Injured) with the energy of 3 merely dead base saiyans and the energy of a merely dead Super Namek to beat him. Yet again Goku only won because he was able to punch him in his wound. But going logically Cell. His Kamehameha is more then enough to take out Broly. Also again Goku was not refering to Gohans SSJ2 form remember this movie fits NOWHERE in the main timeline therefore mention "Goku himself implies that even Gohan's SSJ2 form doesnt stand a chance" is completely inaccurate,false and does count anywhere in this discussion. Gohan was only a MSSJ in the movie there was no SSJ2 Gohan. There Cell is the victor as it took a SSJ2 to beat him while a MSSJ(With the energy of his weakened friends) to beat Broly therefore the discussion is decided.
Lssj4 12:27, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
- Actually, I did hear from some members that the Japanese version stated that the movie took place during the Cell Games, which, base forms aside, do still fit into the series itself. Besides, if you're going to say that the movie does not take place within the timeline, you can't really say that Cell is stronger or weaker than Broly. Since Broly doesn't even canonically exist, there wouldn't be a point to compare power levels. It's like trying to compare someone's physical strength to someone made of thin air, it really is completely pointless because nothing exists to even prove one way or another who or what is stronger. Besides which, Cooler canonically didn't exist in the manga/anime, yet they still said that he was stronger than Frieza, so canonicity has absolutely nothing to do with whether someone's stronger or weaker than another character, especially not the canon characters being stronger than the non canon characters, so please don't try to claim that the movie is non-canon and also say Cell's stronger than Broly. I mean, if I were you and I felt the movie wasn't canon, I wouldn't even bother comparing Cell's strength to Broly because such attempts are fruitless and pointless due to Broly not even existing. The whole "canon" arguement is really a bad argument to begin with in regards to proving one character as being stronger than another. Weedle McHairybug 14:18, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
- You didnt listen to what I meant. Yes I dont use canon vs non canon. I dont say because this character is canon and this one isnt there automaticaaly stronger. No that is not what I am saying.
Lssj4 20:23, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
- Problem is, it doesn't matter if you said that it wasn't what you are saying. By claiming that Goku telling Gohan to flee doesn't count due to the movie not being canon, and yet claiming Cell's stronger than Broly anyways, that's still what you meant. I try to look at things objectively. Rationally. Logically. In other words, I don't even try to claim that the whole Gohan thing doesn't count and yet claim Cell's stronger, because I know that I either have to count the whole Gohan thing, or I shouldn't even bother trying to guess which of them is stronger. There is no in-between for it. You either have to acknowledge the whole Gohan thing as canon, or not even bother debating over it if you are truly being rational. Weedle McHairybug 21:41, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
- As he already stated, you are not listening to what he said. It is true that this movie does not fit into the DBZ timeline. If you try to fit it, you can't; it's obviously after Goku and Gohan emerge from the Time Chamber because Gohan is a Super Sayian. In the anime, which imho is the most reasonable media to compare to a DBZ movie (not the manga), all the time spent by Goku and Gohan is accounted for and they never go fight Broly. It obviously does not take place after the Cell games because Goku is alive. But all of that is besides the point; cknowledging this fact that the movie does not fit in, the best you can do is draw information from the movie, alot of which turns out to be very nitpicky or subjective. This is what the other poster was saying; Gohan was clearly not SSJ2 during the movie. It's impossible to tell whether Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo had all taken their second trip to the Time Chamber. So you say that you look at things objectively, but all you do is attack the other contributor with something he is not even saying. So many people look to these convoluted and cryptic character statements as concrete evidence. How many times do the things individual characters state turn out to be far from the truth? So how can you always take what they say as truth? My objective way of looking at it is this: before Gohan goes SSJ2, Cell seems pretty confident that he can defeat all the Z-fighters, even after he sees Goku AND Gohans full powers (MSSJ). This is reinforced by the Cell Jr.'s being able to take on all the Z-fighters while Cell appears to be more than a match for MSSJ Gohan (despite my comment about character statements I'm offering multiple pieces of evidence - one of which is Cell stating that without the Senzu beans he wouldn't even have to kill them himself *referring to the Z-fighters*). Furthermore, after Gohan goes SSJ2, Cell reveals his true power and the reactions of all the Z-fighters indicates that he was indeed holding back a great deal against Goku (which is probably why he was so confident he could defeat all the Z-fighters). Now, taking all of this into consideration, SSJ2 Gohan utterly annihilates Cell. I don't care what you claim, this proves to me that SSJ2 Gohan could easily take on all of the other Z-fighters at full power.
- Now with Broly, once again we have to make alot more inferences, one could even say Trunks, Vegeta and Piccolo were fighting him with their powers before there trips to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (2nd trip for Vegeta and Trunks). Even if you don't, based on everything I just said about Cell, the fact that MSSJ Goku beat Broly with one punch using the powers of heavily weakened Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo (which of course never happens in the regular anime besides Goku lending some power to Frieza or the Spirit Bomb, so there is no accurate way to gauge the amount of power this corresponds to; logically you'd think it would be the power the fighters had available; completely linear) shows that at the very least Cell is even with Broly. I think it suggests that Cell is stronger, and then there is Super Perfect Cell, whose power is hard to gauge because of his brief appearance and Gohan's weakened state when they had the Kamehameha struggle. One last point; the other contributor already listed reasons I agree with on Goku's Kamehameha on Broly vs. his one on Cell. But look at the attack ASSJ Vegeta did on Super Perfect Cell after Trunks was killed; pretty hardcore and Cell wasn't even scratched.
- And this is exactly what the previous poster was trying to say; it is clear that Gohan never engages Broly as a SS2 in this movie, so you cannot say that SS2 was no match for Broly. It has nothing to do with basing his entire argument on canon vs noncanon; and if you want to say that Goku knew Gohan had the potential to go SS2 that is just so far fetched: nothing hints to it and there were completely different circumstances. Maybe Goku didn't think Broly would give Gohan the chance to be pushed or maybe he didn't think of that in the midst of the fight, or maybe he wanted to fight Broly himself. You can come up with whatever you want, but unless SS2 Gohan fought Broly in this movie, which he didn't, it's all speculation. These are the reasons I believe my arguments is stronger than yours and Cell would win (never did I even mention his plethora of useful abilites such as regeneration).
- On a side note: do you even look at what you post? ASSJ Vegeta is 3 times SSJ but SSJ2 is only 2 times? ASSJ Vegeta can't even beat a Cell Jr., how does this make sense? Also, I know its already been discredited but you state USSJ Trunks could have beaten Cell if it wasn't for speed; despite Cell being able to also power up at the cost of speed (he did this against Trunks and Gohan SSJ2). Finally, no MSSJ is not basically the same power as regular SSJ with better energy control and speed. Regular SSJ couldn't even beat the Androids who couldn't even beat Imperfect Cell after he absorbed a bunch of regular people. After Goku reveals his true power at the Cell games Vegeta states that it is clear Kakarott is stronger than any of the other Z-Fighters (which no one argued against and I think its pretty obvious they would be able to compare their own power to his, except of course Gohan who's MSSJ form actually may have been stronger than Goku's).70.185.126.215 01:23, November 1, 2012 (UTC)Hausenator
Broly(First coming) vs Perfect cell[]
" I sincerely doubt that the combination of two ASSJs, two MSSJs, and a Super Namek (all of which combined does indeed equate to nine super saiyans) would actually wound him,"
number 1, no it only equates to 4 super saiyans and a namek. at most 5 super saiyans. and since the combination of half dead mssj and 4 near dead base form saiyans and namekians almost killed him, im sure a ssj2 can.
"even when Goku himself implies that even Gohan's SSJ2 form doesn't stand a chance"
when did this happen? its never implied goku even knows about gohans potential in movie 8 since he insisted on giving power to himself, rather than giving energy to gohan and telling him to get mad. kid gohan ssj2 would easily destroy broly. i dont care that broly can take goku out in one kick or not, the fact is he DIDNT and gohan one shotted 7 cell jrs. broly has no showings to prove hes beyond hatchyack let alone cell and gohan.
"number 1, no it only equates to 4 super saiyans and a namek. at most 5 super saiyans. and since the combination of half dead mssj and 4 near dead base form saiyans and namekians almost killed him, im sure a ssj2 can."
It's called having reserve energy. Plus, if they were near dead, the donation of their powers would not have taken a few minutes. If anything, it would have taken more like a few seconds. "Near Dead" would imply you are about an inch from death's door.
"when did this happen? its never implied goku even knows about gohans potential in movie 8 since he insisted on giving power to himself, rather than giving energy to gohan and telling him to get mad. kid gohan ssj2 would easily destroy broly. i dont care that broly can take goku out in one kick or not, the fact is he DIDNT and gohan one shotted 7 cell jrs. broly has no showings to prove hes beyond hatchyack let alone cell and gohan."
From the movie:
"(Broly managed to punch Trunks hard enough to spit out blood, and then slammed him into a rockface. Turns to Goku)
Broly: Kakarot, how much do you love your son?! Hehehehe...
(Gohan is sneering at Broly as if going to attack him, but Goku steps in front)
Goku: Gohan, leave!
Gohan: ? But father...!
Goku: NOW!
(Gohan reluctantly flees)"
Now, going by the fact that this movie takes place during the Ten Day Wait according to the Japanese version (at least, that's what I heard from some users), and Goku not only chose Gohan to fight Perfect Cell specifically because of his inner power and was barely even surprised at Gohan's SSJ2 form, but if the flashback in Cell's Break Down implies anything, he also knew about Gohan's SSJ2 form ever since he briefly transformed into it during their ROSAT training while Cell was still in his imperfect form, and he even heavily implied at having a plan to defeat Cell despite his self-admission that Goku doesn't even stand a chance against Cell (the plan being Gohan defeating him, as revealed later). So, taking into account of all these facts, since he'd obviously knew about Gohan's SSJ2 power by this time, why would he tell Gohan to flee as if Gohan didn't even stand a chance against Broly? Simple, because he really didn't stand a chance against Broly, period.
simple. gohan did stand a chance but the movies dont follow the same continuity. goku has the UTMOST faith in gohan and knows damn well he couldnt defeat cell but gohan can. so what, goku can beat broly and sends away someone stronger than he is so he can fight broly alone? no. he would want ssj2 gohan with him by his side fighting. if they lose the best they have, they will not have a chance. even if goku thinks gohan will die, its better than running away and letting broly destroy the universe because goku got so retarded that he thought it a good idea to send away his son. how can you think mssj goku stands more of a chance vs broly than ssj2 gohan?
goku was indeed surprised at ssj2 gohans ability to dismantle cell with ease. the easiest explanation is cell games gohan is completely different and much stronger than movie 8 gohan.
I am, however, going to state that Hatchyack is at least Equal to Movie 8 Broly's power, specifically because of Goku's statement when encountering him in "The Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans". And by your logic, SSJ2 Gohan must not be able to kill Perfect Cell (regular Perfect Cell, not Super Perfect Cell) just because he didn't kill him in one fell swoop, even though it was made especially clear that Gohan actually is more than capable of killing him in one fell swoop, but was drawing out the fight due to personal hate for Cell and wanting to see him suffer. The fact is, if they really wanted to establish that SSJ2 Gohan was more than capable of defeating Broly, they'd have Goku encourage him to draw out all of Gohan's power and have him go SSJ2 and end the movie with Broly being one-shotted by Gohan, not Goku telling Gohan to flee, since that implies the exact opposite. Weedle McHairybug 11:53, May 12, 2011 (UTC)
if they really wanted to establish broly is stronger than ssj2 kid gohan, he wouldnt have lost to ssj1 goku (near dead base saiyans power given).
'"simple. gohan did stand a chance but the movies dont follow the same continuity. goku has the UTMOST faith in gohan and knows damn well he couldnt defeat cell but gohan can. so what, goku can beat broly and sends away someone stronger than he is so he can fight broly alone? no. he would want ssj2 gohan with him by his side fighting. if they lose the best they have, they will not have a chance. even if goku thinks gohan will die, its better than running away and letting broly destroy the universe because goku got so retarded that he thought it a good idea to send away his son. how can you think mssj goku stands more of a chance vs broly than ssj2 gohan? "'
Considering the fact that, I dunno, the Daizenshuu, which was written by Toriyama, stated that the movie was in continuity with the Anime, at least, I doubt that should be a reason. And besides, think logically, if SSJ2 Gohan was truly stronger than Broly, then why WOULDN'T they risk losing the best they have if there is absolutely no risk of Gohan being killed by Broly? I mean, Goku was perfectly willing to risk Gohan getting killed by Cell because of his power even when Gohan wasn't willing to fight, so it shouldn't be a problem here.
'goku was indeed surprised at ssj2 gohans ability to dismantle cell with ease. the easiest explanation is cell games gohan is completely different and much stronger than movie 8 gohan."'
No, he wasn't surprised at all about Gohan's ability to dismantle Cell. Cell's Break Down had Goku reminiscing about Gohan's first transformation into SSJ2 and he explicitly stated that it was because of that transformation that made him realize that Gohan is the only one of the fighters who has any chance at beating Cell, and the entire Cell Saga had Goku heavily implying that he had a plan to defeat Cell despite Goku, in his own words "being licked" by Cell in comparison to his power level. Said plan ended up being revealed to be him sending Gohan out into the fight to succeed Goku.
if they really wanted to establish broly is stronger than ssj2 kid gohan, he wouldnt have lost to ssj1 goku (near dead base saiyans power given).
And if they really wanted to establish that Broly is weaker than a SSJ2 Gohan, they shouldn't have had Goku and the others being beaten to a bloody pulp by Broly despite their ganging up on him. Weedle McHairybug 00:15, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
"Considering the fact that, I dunno, the Daizenshuu, which was written by Toriyama, stated that the movie was in continuity with the Anime, at least, I doubt that should be a reason. And besides, think logically, if SSJ2 Gohan was truly stronger than Broly, then why WOULDN'T they risk losing the best they have if there is absolutely no risk of Gohan being killed by Broly? I mean, Goku was perfectly willing to risk Gohan getting killed by Cell because of his power even when Gohan wasn't willing to fight, so it shouldn't be a problem here."
Even though movie 8 fits in the anime continuity, for some strange reason Goku does not know anything whatsoever about Gohan's hidden powers so this argument won't work. SSJ 2 (talk) 03:57, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
may I remind that in the orgnal anmaie and the manga, gohan ssj2 fights the cell jrs one at a time, not all at once, and the cell jrs are only as trong as cell perfect form, and THAT GOHAN WAS ACTULY IN SSJ2 WHEN HE KILLED CELL! and besides, expers say that ultssj is about ssj3.5.
Broly, obviously[]
MSSJ Goku put up a decent fight against Cell before letting Gohan take over, and SSJ2 Gohan (strength of 2 Super Saiyans) completely dominated Cell. On the other hand, Broly, in his LSSJ form, was totally unphased in his battle against Goku, Gohan, Trunks, Vegeta, and Piccolo up until Goku defeated him in sudden and improbable fashion (a trademark of the DBZ movies). Broly was essentially invincible against the same crowd that was able to damage Cell. So Broly is more powerful than Cell. Anyone who says otherwise is most likely a Cell fanboy.
your just a broly fanboy.
they were not the exact same crowd. to say so is to ignore logic and the saiyans ability to increase with every beating. cell would have beaten every z fighter with ease. his cell jrs (weaker than himself) beat the tar out of the z fighters unphased by even final flash. cell was essentially invincible as a full powered bio android. only ssj2 was capable of matching against him. since we know gohan defeated 7 cell jrs, then ssj2 is 7x stronger than assj. ssj2 gohan would have utterly destroyed the fighters that killed broly in seconds just as he did to cell jrs.
What?[]
SSJ2 is way more than 2 MSSJs,2 ASSJs & 1 Super Namek combined.Stated,Super Perfect Cell was as strong as Teen Gohan SSJ2 atleast.wwho said "Cell was totally owned by an SSJ2'?
"wwho said "Cell was totally owned by an SSJ2'?"
Anyone who watched DBZ would say that. After becoming SSJ2, Gohan beat Cell with the greatest of ease. Once Cell returned as Super Perfect, the only reason Gohan wasn't able to defeat him outright was because he got injured trying to protect Vegeta and then lost confidence. I'd agree with you thought about adult SSJ2 Gohan being on par with Cell, since he was equally matched up against Dabura, but that was because Gohan became a non-training nerd for 7 years.
Also, SSJ2 is indeed double the strength of an SSJ.
wrong
adult gohan is equal or stronger than his kid self. vegeta stated that if adult gohan were to lose his shit and become angry, he wouldnt know what would happen. goku stated if adult gohan got angry NO ONE CAN STOP HIM. this was said when gohan was faced with the prospect of battling dabura. who is stronger than super perfect cell as established by goku in the manga. gohan never became a nerd. he just got a life and became like a father to goten that goku never was.
ssj2 is indeed 7x the strength of ssj.
Broly...[]
If a Super Saiyan 2 defeated Cell, a Legendary Super Saiyan would rip him apart.
Goku needed the power of a Full Power Super Saiyan, 2 Ascended Super Saiyans and a Super Namek, who haves the power of a Ascended Super Saiyan. With all this power combined, they had the power of 5 Super Saiyans (including Goku).
A Super Saiyan 2 haves the power of 2 Super Saiyans. With the powers combined, they have a power far beyond a Super Saiyan 2. If all the powers combined managed to hurt Broly, Cell would be nowhere near that power.
A Super Saiyan 3 has 4 times the power of a Super Saiyan 2. If a Super Saiyan 2 has 2 times the power of a Super Saiyan, it means that a Super Saiyan 3 has 8 times the power of a Super Saiyan (2X4=8).
They needed 5 times the strength of a Super Saiyan to defeat Broly, when a Super Saiyan 3 has 8 times the strength of a Super Saiyan, a Super Saiyan 3 would stand a chance.
A Super Saiyan 3 is stronger than Cell, and if a Super Saiyan 3 would stand a chance against a Broly, it is clearly that Broly is stronger than Cell.
wrong
everything you just said is wrong. Goku didn't need the power of 5 super saiyans. all he needed was scraps of energy from 3 near dead base form saiyans and a near dead namekian. ssj goku (charged by near death saiyans) is nowhere near ssj2 kid gohan. and where did you get those multipliers? ssj2 isnt ssj1 + ssj1. gohan defeated 7 cell jrs, each of them equal to assj vegeta. so ssj2 = ssj1 x 7.
-Mendris
WRONG!
This argument is crap, only because Gohan defeated 7 Cell Jr.s, he is'nt 7 times as strong as they are. he killed them one after another.
I think Vegeta mentioned something about ASSJ tripling his strength when he first unveils it, and the fact that Trunks was stated to be similar in power level to Vegeta when in this form, and that Trunks will succeed should Vegeta fail to defeat Semi-Perfect Cell suggests that that it is triple that of a Super Saiyan (I know people say it was because they trained hard, but I have doubts about it. I mean, Vegeta, surely, but Trunks' flashback indicated that he tried to save his father from the chaotic elements before Vegeta basically told him off for interfering, and going by that, I sincerely doubt that they actually trained together.). Going by that, assuming the calculations are correct, Broly's power level as a LSSJ in movie 8 is probably closer to nine super saiyans, if not more.
I'm pretty sure they also used all of their reserve energy (including USSJ and possibly Gohan's SSJ2) in the energy transfer, since the fact that they did previously utilize the combined power of two MSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek and failed (i.e., when Ganging up on Broly). Anyways, that's just my estimates. I might be wrong, but at least it's more accurate than the whole "Cell is stronger" arguement. Weedle McHairybug 10:59, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
wrong
vegeta didnt say his transformation tripled his strength. only that he was 3 times stronger than before. brolys power level in movie 8 was enough to defeat 3 super saiyans (vegeta didnt actually participate in the battle combined with the others).
You are not sure they used their reserve energy as they never actually powered up. you have to be in ssj2 to output ssj2 energy. otherwise your just giving base form energy.
giving energy into one body is alot different than trying to gang up on someone. thats why ganging up on frieza failed to do jackshit but a spirit bomb almost killed him. thats why fusion was more effective than simply giving energy. besides gohan and vegeta are massively depowered compared to the series. since we know these fighters are much weaker than they were against cell since none of them possess ssj2 (gohan only unlocked the power by getting extremely angry. its hidden power. you cant just call it out when your giving energy to someone if its hidden, otherwise he would have given his power to goku so goku can kill cell.)
cell is stronger than movie 8 broly. theres just no getting around vegetas statement of "even if we ganged up we still couldnt win" when facing a tired worn out supressed cell. imagine full powered senzu cell. broly would have no chance. cell > cell jrs > z fighters at the cell games > broly.
Even if we assume that the first Broly movie does take place during the 10-day wait, Gohan is still portrayed as being the weakest of the Z-fighters. It is displayed most prominently when Goku tells Gohan to GTFO in the movie, yet in the anime, tells Gohan to get himself killed so that Cell can be destroyed.
At Cell's full power, pre-self-destruction, everyone thought that maybe they had underestimated Cell. They are proven wrong, however, when SSJ2 Gohan bashes a crater into his stomach and jaw with no effort.
Cell had held back against Goku when they fought, and was completely off-guard when hit by the Warp Kamehameha (held for 1 min 4 sec anime time, compared to the 10 sec screen time with Broly). Broly was on-guard when hit by the Kamehameha and was unfazed, as you say.
I'd have to say, Full Power Perfect Cell could take out this Broly.
Essentially, Goku took energy from two half-dead Saiyans, a half-dead Super Namek, and Vegeta who could still walk around and scream at the top of his lungs. Somehow, that combination was able to give Broly that critical wound. No, I don't believe it was a "weak spot", as Broly was punched in the abs, not the chest.
tl;dr, because of everything shown in both sources (anime and Movie 8), I'd say Full Power Perfect Cell could very easily take Broly from this movie. SSJ7G 05:16, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
"wrong
vegeta didnt say his transformation tripled his strength. only that he was 3 times stronger than before. brolys power level in movie 8 was enough to defeat 3 super saiyans (vegeta didnt actually participate in the battle combined with the others). "
Vegeta implied that Trunks had a similar increase in power (He mentioned something about if he fails to defeat Cell, Trunks will defeat him), and I sincerely doubt it was from training, considering the fact that Vegeta didn't even train with Trunks (in fact, a flashback to Vegeta and Trunks' ROSAT training even had Vegeta driving away Trunks when Trunks tried to help him).
"You are not sure they used their reserve energy as they never actually powered up. you have to be in ssj2 to output ssj2 energy. otherwise your just giving base form energy. "
Trunks did power up, however (He was in ASSJ form). Besides, that was too much energy they donated before losing consciousness to simply be base-form energy.
"giving energy into one body is alot different than trying to gang up on someone. thats why ganging up on frieza failed to do jackshit but a spirit bomb almost killed him. thats why fusion was more effective than simply giving energy. besides gohan and vegeta are massively depowered compared to the series. since we know these fighters are much weaker than they were against cell since none of them possess ssj2 (gohan only unlocked the power by getting extremely angry. its hidden power. you cant just call it out when your giving energy to someone if its hidden, otherwise he would have given his power to goku so goku can kill cell.)"
Actually, no its not. If they are full power and they fight him, it's pretty evident that he would have to be overwhelmed by them if he had to be beaten by several near-dead saiyans.
Besides, Ganging up has the fighter in question fighting against multiple fighters, and if their power levels are high enough, it basically adds together.
Ok but it didn't. Broly was beaten by Goku alone with a tiny bit of ki from near death base saiyans.
Also, Vegeta didn't even have SSJ2, and in any case, why are you claiming that Gohan's depowered? Just because he wasn't able to beat Broly doesn't mean that he was depowered.
Goku stated Gohan should leave. Why send away the best you have if gohan is at his cell games level? Broly defeated Gohan the quickest out of anyone that fought, twice. if his target was goku, it took him alot longer to finish goku off. Even though youd think hed put more power into it and finish him early on.
Now if Gohan lost easily to, say, one of Paragus's soldiers, yes, I can definitely say he was depowered.
"cell is stronger than movie 8 broly. theres just no getting around vegetas statement of "even if we ganged up we still couldnt win" when facing a tired worn out supressed cell. imagine full powered senzu cell. broly would have no chance. cell > cell jrs > z fighters at the cell games > broly. "
If Broly was weaker than Cell, then please explain why they went to fight Broly instead of waiting until Cell was defeated.
They didnt. Broly takes place in a universe non canon to the main universe. no one knows when it took place.
For one thing, Broly won't end up attacking anyone or go berserk until encountering Goku, anyways, so he won't be a severe threat until they actually encounter him.
so he was being a hell of a nice guy when tearing the south galaxy a new one?
And besides, if that was the case, then please explain why the Daizenshuu stated that SSJ2, which actually defeated Cell, has twice the strength of a super saiyan
Non canonical source.
which essentially means that its power is the equivalent of two super saiyans?
Well that means Gohan defeated 7 Cell jrs by pure luck. after all hes only doubled in strength right? why should 7 ssj level beings be any problem?
If it was indeed true that it didn't matter if they ganged up on Cell when he was at his weakest, then SSJ2 Gohan, by that logic, certainly wouldn't have stood a chance, since logically, if two super saiyans couldn't beat Cell in either his weakened or full powered form, SSJ2, which is the transformation of equivalent power, certainly can't.
"Even if we assume that the first Broly movie does take place during the 10-day wait, Gohan is still portrayed as being the weakest of the Z-fighters. It is displayed most prominently when Goku tells Gohan to GTFO in the movie, yet in the anime, tells Gohan to get himself killed so that Cell can be destroyed."
Has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, this was because Broly was actually stronger? After all, it was implied in Cell's Mighty Breakdown that Gohan first achieved SSJ2 during his training at ROSAT.
Gohan was the earths best chance of survival against cell. if broly was stronger, and if you remember that after leaving the rosat, goku knows gohan has surpassed him in strength, then you must know that gohan at his cell games level is more useful in a fight with broly than goku at his cell games level. since this is not the case and goku tells gohan he is useless on this battlefield means gohan can beat cell but someone weaker than gohan stands more of a chance than gohan does against an enemy beyond cells level. fucking retard logic from goku.
"At Cell's full power, pre-self-destruction, everyone thought that maybe they had underestimated Cell. They are proven wrong, however, when SSJ2 Gohan bashes a crater into his stomach and jaw with no effort."
Not everyone. Goku seemed confident since the 10 day wait that Gohan would defeat Cell, and it is implied the reason he was confident was because he realized that his SSJ2 form was
"Cell had held back against Goku when they fought, and was completely off-guard when hit by the Warp Kamehameha (held for 1 min 4 sec anime time, compared to the 10 sec screen time with Broly). Broly was on-guard when hit by the Kamehameha and was unfazed, as you say."
Cell may have held back his overall power, but he also stated that he would increase his true power little by little in the same fight.
No he did not. show me a manga scan where he said this, or an episode thats not english dubbed.
Besides, Broly implied that didn't actually know what the Kamehameha was, and usually an attack you don't know about would result in you being caught offguard (He said "And what was that supposed to be, Goku?", which definitely would imply that he didn't even know what the attack was).
He probably didnt. hes never seen a kamehameha before that moment.
"Essentially, Goku took energy from two half-dead Saiyans, a half-dead Super Namek, and Vegeta who could still walk around and scream at the top of his lungs. Somehow, that combination was able to give Broly that critical wound. No, I don't believe it was a "weak spot", as Broly was punched in the abs, not the chest."
Then why is it that Broly didn't succumb earlier in the fight when he was fighting against two FPSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek?
Because this movie makes no sense and is filler, not to mention badly written
If he could be beaten by the donated powers of half-dead fighters like that, then he should logically be defeated by full powered and fresh fighters when ganged up.
but the movie isnt logical. there are explanations for brolys defeat. the scar wound isnt one of them.
Besides which, it was officially stated that SSJ2's equivalent strength is two SSJs
Daiz is not official or backed up by the manga. also ssj2 is not ssj1 + ssj1. otherwise gohan would have fallen to 3 cell jrs.
, which means that, had Broly actually been weaker than an SSJ2, he certainly would have been beaten by them while they were fresh.
but they never combined powers to beat him when they were fresh. they came at him one at a time, Weedle McHairybug 08:00, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
Okay, next time, post your responses AFTER my post, quote the things you're responding to, even.
"Ok but it didn't. Broly was beaten by Goku alone with a tiny bit of ki from near death base saiyans. "
A "tiny bit?" Guys, the whole charge up took about several minutes. That's far too much to be a "tiny bit." Had it been a tiny bit, it would have been comparable to only a few milliseconds, maybe a few seconds at best.
"Goku stated Gohan should leave. Why send away the best you have if gohan is at his cell games level? Broly defeated Gohan the quickest out of anyone that fought, twice. if his target was goku, it took him alot longer to finish goku off. Even though youd think hed put more power into it and finish him early on. "
To answer your question, it is also just as likely that Gohan also was as strong as he was in the Cell games, yet Broly still overpowered him, and he did actually knock out Goku around the same amount of hits anyways, so it's not really by much that Broly defeated Gohan quicker. We don't even know about the second time he knocked out the Z-fighters. For all we know, Gohan could have been the second last Z-fighter to fall before Vegeta fell, as Piccolo, Trunks, and Gohan were knocked out offscreen. And anyways, who says they weren't putting in more power.
"They didnt. Broly takes place in a universe non canon to the main universe. no one knows when it took place."
Actually, I think I recall hearing that the Japanese dub stated something about it taking place during the ten day wait.
so he was being a hell of a nice guy when tearing the south galaxy a new one?
More like it was implied that the majority of the south galaxy was attacked/destroyed while he was under Paragus' mind control via that crown of his.
Non canonical source.
First off, if the Daizenshuu was non-canonical, then why did the creators of Dragonball even make the books in the first place, especially when it was supposed to explain various things about the series including power levels and characters?
Gohan was the earths best chance of survival against cell. if broly was stronger, and if you remember that after leaving the rosat, goku knows gohan has surpassed him in strength, then you must know that gohan at his cell games level is more useful in a fight with broly than goku at his cell games level. since this is not the case and goku tells gohan he is useless on this battlefield means gohan can beat cell but someone weaker than gohan stands more of a chance than gohan does against an enemy beyond cells level. fucking retard logic from goku.
Cell's Mighty Breakdown also had Gohan briefly transforming into SSJ2 while in ROSAT, explaining how he knew Gohan surpassed him and felt that Cell may be able to be defeated. Besides which, if someone, in your words, who was weaker than Gohan stood more of a chance than Gohan, and Gohan was weak, Goku wouldn't have even needed to use the whole donating powers thing (which is essentially the equivalent of the spirit bomb), Goku would have just destroyed Broly as is.
No he did not. show me a manga scan where he said this, or an episode thats not english dubbed.
It was in Cell vs Goku. Goku somehow nearly manages to knock Cell out of the ring, only for Cell to reveal it was a feint. Cell basically tells off Goku for keeping his power level low, to which Goku remarks that Cell's holding back as well, to which Cell retorts that "little by little, I shall unveil the true power that lies within me." Now, if you've watched the Japanese version and can provide what it actually said, then please, feel free to state it. Otherwise, don't bother telling me what he did or didn't say.
He probably didnt. hes never seen a kamehameha before that moment.
Well, if Broly didn't see a Kamehameha before that moment, then wouldn't it have been a bit more likely that he would have been completely offguard by the attack? When Cell, for example, fired that Super Kamehameha at Goku, Goku lured it away from the Earth, and used Instant Transmission. When Goku reappears, he manages to punch Cell easily because Cell didn't anticipate that Goku would do that, not knowing about the technique. Similarly, Cell was pretty much horrified when it seemed like Goku would actually fire the Kamehameha at the Earth, only to be completely shocked and even more horrified when Goku practiced the Warp Kamehameha. For a lesser example, when Vegeta first used the Final Flash against Cell, Cell became surprised when he launched the attack, and was implied to be at least initially in pain from narrowly surviving the attack.
but they never combined powers to beat him when they were fresh. they came at him one at a time,
Let's see, Goku, Trunks, and Gohan, when getting into FPSSJ, ASSJ, and FPSSJ, respectively, ganged up on Broly, which is technically combining powers. Later in the fight, Goku and Piccolo tried to hit Broly from both sides, but that failed, then Gohan and Trunks attempted to hit him with a Masenko each. Last I checked, that's combining powers as well, since they are fighting together, hence combining powers. Weedle McHairybug 11:55, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
You mean to say that ASSJ is more powerful than SSJ2?cuz u say that assj is 3x stronger than SSJ,while u also say that that fucking crappy shit Dazenshu states that SSJ2 is 2x stronger than SSJ?Get some actual facts before posting, Weedle guy
2.Besides,Cell is way stronger than Broly.Broly LSSJ(Movie10) was more powerful than(Movie 8) but was losing to the weaker Adult Gohan SSJ2.
3.Teen SSJ2 was capable of destroying 7 Cell Jr. each of which were equal to an ASSJ,thus being equal to 7 x 3= 21 SSjsSuper Perfect Cell was WAY more powerful,so jyst think,Weedle guy
Ucell 08:33, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
"You mean to say that ASSJ is more powerful than SSJ2?cuz u say that assj is 3x stronger than SSJ,while u also say that that fucking crappy shit Dazenshu states that SSJ2 is 2x stronger than SSJ?Get some actual facts before posting, Weedle guy "
No, Vegeta stated that, or at the very least that he was three times as strong as before he got the transformation/before he got into the ROSAT. All I did was cite the evidence. And the Daizenshuu was official guides explaining stuff from DBZ, so don't blame me if the writers seem to support me more than you.
the writer of dbz had nothing to do with daizenshuu
"2.Besides,Cell is way stronger than Broly.Broly LSSJ(Movie10) was more powerful than(Movie 8) but was losing to the weaker Adult Gohan SSJ2. "
I think you need to rewatch Movie 10 again, Broly was not losing to a weaker SSJ2 Gohan.
he was having trouble with ssj1 gohan
He would have lost had the fight been between gohan at his FULL power, and not when hes still calm.
It was more like the exact opposite, Gohan was the one getting mostly creamed
broly was getting beaten up as well. his hold was broken, his body was driven back and hurt by a kick, he was dunked in lava, and then shot to the sun.
, with him getting I count only one good shot (maybe two, if Gohan punching Broly in the face after freeing himself from the cliff that Broly piledrived him into counts as a connected hit) out of the four hits at Broly (by that, I mean where the attack actually connected and causing enough damage to at the very least stun him, if not do a sizable amount of damage). Gohan ended up being punched and piledrived by Broly, and then had himself placed in a backbreaker position by Broly,
and still tanked all of it and came back with his strength in the beamstruggle, dueling broly for a long time.
a hold broken by gohan with gohans pure strength.
All of Broly's attacks, or at least two thirds, still connected, and dealt pretty grave damage to Gohan in either case. Literally the only real reason why Gohan even survived the fight was because he lured Broly into a lava pool, and not due to his SSJ2 power. Even then, Broly still survived that somewhat unscathed.
gohan survived because videl came to his rescue. then gohan went to ssj1 once again, proving brolys beating ineffective since he had more than enough ki left to go ssj1. and broly wasnt unscathed. he had scratches and wounds all over his body and gohan was in ssj1.
"3.Teen SSJ2 was capable of destroying 7 Cell Jr. each of which were equal to an ASSJ,thus being equal to 7 x 3= 21 SSjsSuper Perfect Cell was WAY more powerful,so jyst think,Weedle guy"
SSJ2 Gohan was capable of doing that, I'm sure. I never said the mathematical system was perfect, but the problem is, it's the best we've got as of right now. And the Daizenshuu has stated, and thus word of god stated that SSJ2 is basically the equivalent of two Super Saiyans. I tried explaining it, but apparently people don't seem to get this. Weedle McHairybug 20:19, June 15, 2011 (UTC)
He would have lost had the fight been between gohan at his FULL power, and not when hes still calm.
Gohan was fighting Broly in SSJ2 form, so he was not "calm."
gohan was ssj1, and even if he was ssj2, he was a calm ssj2. the form shown vs kibito, as gohan showed he needs no anger to be ssj2.
a hold broken by gohan with gohans pure strength.
Yet still wasn't enough to actually one-shot Broly. Had SSJ2 truly been stronger than Broly
well it was. gohan fought in ssj1 and held his own.
, it needs more than just being able to slightly damage him, it also needs for him to actually vaporize Broly in one shot. For example, Trunks in his Super Saiyan form in the Manga killing Frieza with one hit.
with a magical sword, not his fist.
Think of it like this[]
Ok Goku was about equal to Perfect Cell.
Cell defeated Goku while not using all his power. We know this because he later tells gohan he hasnt shown what hes really capable of yet.
Broly could be stronger than anyone we never know. All times he was defeated his guard was down.
Prove it. Are you saying he didn't see goku's huge fist coming? Are you saying he twiddled his thumbs and stared at clouds when three kamehamehas were breaking his attack apart and sending him to the sun?
Cell never defeated goku he just gave it up to Gohan then gave cell a friggin senzu bean.
Giving up is classified as victory. Goku was stated as very tired and was going to be killed by Cell had he fought on further.
Goku was about equal to cell. and Gohan thought Goku was holding back greatly Perfect Cell was weaker than Gohan who hadn't actually fought him.
Gohan tried to fight Cell and got his ass handed to him. No SSJ1 can possibly take on Cell alone.
Broly, he took down 4 Super Saiyans and a Super Name with ease
And Cell cannot?
, plus in the return of Broly he destroyed SSJ2 Adult Gohan like he was nothing.
No. Gohan hurt him and broke down his chokehold, then killed him with a little bit of help from his spirit father and half dead brother. All while not at Gohan's full power.
South Kaioshin Daniel 07:39, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
Plus Goku said to gohan RUN NOW he very well knew that gohan was stronger he would only say that if even gohan was no match for him.
Well Gohan was the weakest Saiyan in that movie. In Cell Games he is the ONLY saiyan capable of fighting with Cell. Weakest? it takes place a few days before the cell games if you didn't know SSJ Dude (talk)
Cell defeated Goku while not using all his power. We know this because he later tells gohan he hasnt shown what hes really capable of yet.
Technically, Cell never defeated Goku. Goku just forefeited the match.
goku was going to die if the fight continued. all the z fighters agreed his ki was falling faster than cell's was.
Prove it. Are you saying he didn't see goku's huge fist coming? Are you saying he twiddled his thumbs and stared at clouds when three kamehamehas were breaking his attack apart and sending him to the sun?
Well, he certainly didn't anticipate that Goku would receive a massive power up, or that Trunks would actually take away his ability to feed his Omega Blaster more power.
Giving up is classified as victory. Goku was stated as very tired and was going to be killed by Cell had he fought on further.
It was more concern for the planet, though, since Cell did turn it into his own battle ring.
Gohan tried to fight Cell and got his ass handed to him. No SSJ1 can possibly take on Cell alone.
Yet later remembered about his hidden power.
And Cell cannot?
Considering the fact that Cell only wanted a fighter each, no, he cannot. If he truly wanted to demonstrate his strength that way, he could also request that the fighters gang up on him at full power, just to prove that he's more than capable of handling them.
No. Gohan hurt him and broke down his chokehold, then killed him with a little bit of help from his spirit father and half dead brother. All while not at Gohan's full power.
Here's exactly what happened fully in the fight:
Gohan, enraged at Broly possibly murdering Goten, Trunks, and Videl, and probably sensing he can't beat him in his base form, powers up to SSJ2.
he was ssj1, notice the lack of sparks that was once so present in the previous movie. why would toei forget so suddenly?
Broly notices this, gets afraid, and then transforms into his Legendary Super Saiyan form.
well of course he does. his ssj1 form was being owned by base gohan.
Gohan punches Broly in the face, only for Broly to be completely unphased.
broly pushed forward with his face against gohans fist. its not like he stood there and took it like super 13 did to the z fighters
Broly then retaliates with a punch of his own, sending Gohan flying. He then grabs Gohans face and slams him into a cliff, the cliff then collapses.
Gohan breaks free of the cliff. Gohan then punches Broly in the side of the head, and then attempts to kick him in the side of the head as well. Broly was unphased, as shortly thereafter, Broly grabs both Gohan's arms, and then does a backbreaker technique. Gohan is screaming in pain until he notices the magma pool and gets the idea to lure Broly into the magma pit. He then focuses his inner strength and knees Broly in the face, stunning Broly long enough to escape.
so gohan broke off the backbreaker hold. if you remember, goten was unable to break trunks' hold and dodoria was unable to break vegetas hold. it seems gohan has done what would require a decent power level to do. no doubt tapping into the power not yet used, confirming broly is not fighting gohan at his best.
Gohan then fires a ki ball into the magma pool to allow waves to rise. Gohan then flies into the magma pool with Broly chasing him. Gohan then manages to escape the magma pool before the waves close. Broly isn't so lucky.
Several hours later, Broly reemerges from the magma pool to the irritation of Gohan and the shock of Krillin. Broly knocks out Krillin in one hit, and Broly then manages to severely injure Gohan with a Ki blast swing attack, and then proceeds to stomp on Gohan, shove Gohan into a wall, and then bear hug Gohan into oblivion, with Gohan being unable to break free.
Videl then arrives and attempts to throw a crystal at Broly, only for him to shatter it. Gohan, angered at Videl passing out, and capitalizing on Broly's distraction, breaks free from Broly's grip. Broly then flies up to the mountain to charge his Omega Blaster while Gohan fires his Kamehameha. Broly's Omega is pretty much overpowering Gohan's Kamehameha. An awake Goten then arrives and fires his own Kamehameha at the Omega Blaster, although it changes little as the Omega Blaster still collides with the clifftop. The attack also wakes up Trunks. Gohan remarks that they need more power, and Goten remarks that he wishes their dad, Goku was near. Goku basically congratulates Gohan and Goten for putting up the fight, but Broly is his fight to finish. Goku then fires a Kamehameha with Gohan and Goten
an illusion. he wasnt actually there and as you said, provides coaching, instead of just going ssj2 and finishing this himself.
, with Goku telling Gohan to concentrate, and for Goten to look past his fear, as well as their need to work together. They then briefly manage to launch the Omega Blaster back at Broly, but Broly successfully counters by shooting eraser cannons at the Omega Blaster to push it back. He then fires a second shot, but Trunks fired a ki blast that not only stopped the eraser cannon in its tracks, but also acted as a barrier for future shots. Goku, Gohan, and Goten then use the opportunity to fire the Kamehameha at the Omega Blaster, as well as consequentially hitting Broly, who attempted to counter it with eraser cannons and his shield, and driving him into the sun.
so you admit that he attempted to counter it and couldnt do it, therefore was shot millions of miles still unable to do a thing. and you still say hes stronger than full powered gohan. it seems gohan briefly went ssj2 and thats what finally destroyed broly. goten was no help at all due to being pathetically weak.
Weedle McHairybug 11:55, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
JoshuaSmith[]
It is difficult to tell with the fact Cell is shown with different strengths.
Cell took an enraged SSJ Vegeta's Chi barrage with no effect. Later during Cell's beam clash with Gohan, a weakened Vegeta managed to distract Super Perfect Cell with measley little blast.
Weakened? Vegeta had regained his old strength and caught Cell OFF GUARD.
Broly is the same way.
None of Goku's, Vegeta's, Trunks', Gohan's, or Piccolo's attacks did anything to Broly, but when Goku gathered energy from weak and injured friends he was able to puncture Broly's abdomen with one punch.
Plot hole at best. But it could be said that Broly was simply weakening as the final fight with Goku dragged on.
Cell claimed his kamehameha could easily destroy the entire solar system and Krillin said he could feel the Earth trembling from Perfect Cell's energy.
Broly was destroying galaxies during his free time and Piccolo said he could feel Broly's power level from Earth.
Piccolo never said that. Broly never destroyed any galaxy. english dub errors.
Plot hole at best. But it could be said that Broly was simply weakening as the final fight with Goku dragged on.
Nope, Broly mentioned that he was getting stronger, or in the games, his ki was rising.
no he said his ki was rising. for all you know, immediately after he said that, it bottomed out and stopped rising. since he said it was also overflowing.
Piccolo never said that. Broly never destroyed any galaxy. english dub errors.
Okay then, please, tell me what Piccolo did say. Weedle McHairybug 11:55, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
Brolys much stronger,even in games hes ranked higher
Since when are games proof?
,plus broly was stamping on gohan ssj2
A rusty weakened nerdy Gohan, non enraged. Real impressive...
while cell only equaled him,and goku had more power than a super saiyan 2 when he punched a hole in broly
No he did not. Unless you think Weakened SSJ Goku + Near dead Base Trunks, near dead base gohan, near dead piccolo and base vegeta = more power than ssj2 healthy goku.
and broly wasnt using his full power
Really? And if he was only withholding power to avoid planet busting, then goku was also withholding power to avoid doing the same thing. When Gohan battled Cell, Goku told him to not bother with it and just go all out as the damage could be repaired.
[he threatens them to fight or he would destroy the planet]and in other world goku beats cell frieza king cold and the ginyu force without transforming and the only way they beat broly was by trunks who destroyed broly connection with the omega blaster
This did nothing. It did not weaken broly or his blast.
and logically speaking super perfect cell was only achieved from blowing him self up and regenerating while broly destroyed the whole South Galaxy without using full power
No he attacked it (original japanese dub of Movie 8). He did not fully destroy it as we see Goku visiting said Galaxy and planets are still there.
(suppreses because of his father)
'Since when are games proof?'
Since when did Plan to Eradicate The Saiyans act as "proof" that Broly even had an equal when it wasn't even a movie or OVA, but a OVA that basically acted as a video walkthrough for a video game?
its an OVA nonetheless. games have broly fighting gogeta equally. they have mr satan beating people he could not in the series.
A rusty weakened nerdy Gohan, non enraged. Real impressive...
Did you even see how he was when Gohan transformed? He was enraged at what happened to Videl, Goten, and Trunks.
yes but he was only ssj1 regardless. did you see sparks? i didnt. and the transformation against bojack had already happened so dont give me the shit that toei "forgot". why include it vs cell and bojack but not here?
No he did not. Unless you think Weakened SSJ Goku + Near dead Base Trunks, near dead base gohan, near dead piccolo and base vegeta = more power than ssj2 healthy goku.
Considering the fact that "near dead" base trunks, base goten, piccolo and base vegeta took several minutes to supply their energy to Goku, I really wouldn't say that we should claim that's less power than that. Had they really been near dead, it would have taken milliseconds, maybe seconds at best to charge Goku up before they passed out due to their power being drained.
Really? And if he was only withholding power to avoid planet busting, then goku was also withholding power to avoid doing the same thing. When Gohan battled Cell, Goku told him to not bother with it and just go all out as the damage could be repaired.
Broly stated "If you just let me kill you all before, you wouldn't be in this kind of pain now." Which makes little sense unless Broly was indeed holding back, as that statement would imply that he was toying with them.
No he attacked it (original japanese dub of Movie 8). He did not fully destroy it as we see Goku visiting said Galaxy and planets are still there.
There's also "destroy" as in "leave in ruins." Think Final Fantasy VI and the world of ruin. Even though it was explicitly stated that Kefka destroyed the world, it was apparently still in existence as evidenced by the second act, albeit severely damaged.
ok so broly went from planet to planet, killed everyone and moved on. still not destroyed.
Weedle McHairybug 11:55, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
its an OVA nonetheless. games have broly fighting gogeta equally. they have mr satan beating people he could not in the series.
It's not an OVA, it's a video instruction manual for a video game. Big Difference.
'yes but he was only ssj1 regardless. did you see sparks? i didnt. and the transformation against bojack had already happened so dont give me the shit that toei "forgot". why include it vs cell and bojack but not here?'
First off, it was SSJ2, the Daizenshuu pretty much confirmed that it was SSJ2. Heck, a scan was even posted that confirmed it. 
ok so broly went from planet to planet, killed everyone and moved on. still not destroyed.
Yeah, well, neither was the world when Kefka Palazzo misaligned the Warring Triad, yet the characters still referred to it as such.
You know what, forget it. Trying to talk to you is like talking to a brick wall. Honestly, if I were you, I would just leave the site, since it is pretty obvious that most people don't seem to agree with you. Weedle McHairybug 09:54, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
Broly[]
Broly because he beat SS2 Gohan in second coming, and SS2 Gohan beat Cell.
Gohan was not using all his power on Broly, not at any point in their fight. He never got angry enough to match the power he used to kill Cell with.
Yeah Gohan won in the end, but thats only because of Goten, Trunks, and Goku's help.
He only beat Cell with Vegeta and Goku's help. Your point?
Yeah but thats because Cell severaly injured his arm, and he lost a lot of power
gohan lost no power, goku said that was a psychological thing. i doubt breaking gohans arm would cause him to lose power since the source of ki is not in his arm
Gohan was not using all his power on Broly, not at any point in their fight. He never got angry enough to match the power he used to kill Cell with.
Again, he was shown to be pretty enraged before turning SSJ2.
but not enraged enough. he was just pissed cos broly hurt his friends.
He only beat Cell with Vegeta and Goku's help. Your point?
Except Goku implies that Gohan was probably strong enough without Vegeta and Goku anyways, even without the arm injury.
but he wasnt. super perfect cell said hes equal to gohan in power. only with gokus coaching and vegetas distraction could cell have lost.
No implication was ever made in regards to Broly, however, and in fact, it was implied that they actually needed all the power they could get in defeating him or a miracle.
wrong. they had barely any power left when they finally killed him. goku was not there, and gohan was beaten half to death as was goten. through gokus coaching, he convinced gohan to tap into more of his power and kill broly.
Weedle McHairybug 11:55, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
BROLY COULD NEVER BEAT PERFECT CELL[]
Broly would NOT win.Broly isn't as strong as a super saiyan 2 and anyone who thinks he is even on par with super saiyan 3 is just wrong. His movie doesn't fit in the timeline of the show anywhere but it he did it would take place in the eight days before the cell games when every character was much weaker than when they fought in the cell games. You people need to stop talking about broly like he's the most powerful character ever, he isn't get off the broly train.
- If his movie doesn't even fit into the timeline, then Broly logically would neither have been weaker or stronger than Cell or anyone else. Besides which, Broly beat up two FPSSJs, two ASSJs, and a Super Namek, without either getting a scratch or breaking a sweat. Such an amount would far exceeded SSJ2 anyways
- broly never exceeded any super saiyan 2. ssj goku defeated him in one punch and beating 4 ssjs doesnt make you stronger than ssj2 kid gohan who defeated 7 cell jrs who are stronger than fpssjs.
- , and probably rank him above SSJ3 as well given what was officially stated about their power levels.
- nothing is officially stated, much less that broly could EVER take on any ssj3, because he did try and failed, when goku fought him in hell at the end of movie 11.
- Weedle McHairybug 11:55, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
- We don't even know the outcome of the battle in Movie 11. Heck, most other mediums seem to outright ignore the events of Movie 11, so it's also just as likely that Movie 12 simply ignored the events of Movie 11, explaining Broly's absence. And anyways, even if Goku somehow managed to beat Broly, I sincerely doubt it would have erased him from existance, as the anime has been inconsistent in regards to the exact nature of how people die when already dead.
- For example, GT and even a filler episode of the Namek saga where Chiaotzu attempted to spar with Piccolo and self destruct stated that they can't actually die since they are already dead,
- english dub errrors dont count. you can die when dead hence why goku was worried about vegeta in the kid buu fight.
- not to mention the Ginyu Force managed to survive being impaled by the mountain of needles. Cell might be easy to explain in regards to his survival, as he could regenerate, but not the Ginyu Force. Weedle McHairybug 10:25, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
Listen everyone,[]
Listen everyone, I am not a big Broly fan, but I will admit, he will own Cell. Heres why, when Full power super saiyan Goku fought Cell, he was able to hold his own. But when full power super saiyan Goku, with the help of Goha, Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo, he got owned.
cell was not using even half his power when beating goku. broly needed to use all his power however. plus goku is much stronger by the time he faced cell than he was vs broly.
the truth[]
by the logic shown in this discussion, i'd say that roughly 70% of these people have way too much time on their hands, and 30% know what they are talking about.
To end this...[]
This argument is heavily in favor of Broly when you consider the facts. Not only was he being constantly attacked by the most powerful Z-Fighters
what do you mean the most powerful? we know for a fact gohan didnt have the same power in movie 8 as he does in cell games.
(where as Cell was only taking on one at a time for all but the very end of the fight), he was basically unnafected by any of these attacks. The only reason Goku was able to hurt him on the last attack was because he punched him in his stab wound (basically, he threw a grenade into the tank hatch).
wrong. he didnt hit any stab wound since there is no stab wound. its been 30 years. im sure its healed by now. and he was stabbed in the chest and punched in the stomach.
Not to mention how even after being hit there and thrown into a commet which smashes through a planet, he still survived, not even needing to regenerate like Cell.
comets are weak by dbz standards.
Super Perfect Cell has a chance of being stronger, but when you think about it, I'd say the combined power of 2 FPSSJ, 2 ASSJ, and a Super Namek all attacking the same guy (throw in some Senzu revives and a distraction from Roshi) at once is roughly equal to a SSJ2.
but they werent. not once did broly face all the z fighters at once. when vegeta joined the fight, he was alone and didnt help the others. and piccolo arrived later and didnt really combine with the others either. goku and gohan werent "fpssj" but just regular ssjs.
'^Clearly you need to watch the movie again and see how Piccolo and Goku were trying to attack him, but he was dodging them both, and Gohan and Trunks fired a large Ki ball at him and nothing happened. 'He survived attacks from four beings stronger than regular Super Saiyans.
This shows that, even with roughly equal power as well as strength in numbers still wasn't enough to even affect Broly, while an injured SSJ2 Gohan (with help from some other severaly injured/dead fighters) was enough to kill Cell.
why do you think he was injured? because cell blasted the shit out of him. so cell can break the arm of a fighter stronger than broyl but cant beat broly? huh...
Although it's not relevant to the discussion, it seems important to point out that, even though Broly's power was greater in Second Coming, he was also injured from the first battle (shown from the giant mark across his stomach). Even in that one though, it still took one SSJ2 and two SSJ (one being FP)
wrong. it was 3 ssj1s.
with an assist from another to be able to overtake him, and even that wouldn't have killed him if he didn't get blasted into the freaking sun.
yes it would have since broly cannot breath in fuckin space! he was defeated and knew it. also stars are low level in dbz. spc was able to star bust with one full power kamehameha. broly couldnt do a thing against being thrown into a sun. he couldnt stop 3 ssj1 kamehamehas.
This is yet another testament to his amazing stamina and strength (this coming from a guy who doesn't have that nice regeneration + Zenkai combo).
Bottom line: 5 extremely strong guys all attacking at once wasn't enough to even damage Broly
but they didnt all attack at once.
, only being able to defeat (not kill) him after combining all their power into one shot
lol at them combining all their power when they didnt have all their power. they werent even in ssj when giving power.
into his only weak point
broly has no weak point.
vs 1 exponentially strong guy attacking a guy of equal strength, only to over come him and kill him after his dad gives him some extra energy from the afterlife while some half dead guys shoot him in the back. Honestly, I'm going to go with the impenetrable bulldozer of murder, after I run to the store and get him a god damn shirt to cover his only weak point (seriously, do something about that). --DARK 10:14, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
Broly[]
Goku was able to fight Perfect Cell 1 on 1 like equal, but was no match for Broly and had his ass kicked all over the place. So my choice is Broly.
its stated repeatedly that cell was nowhere near his full power against goku. how could you have missed that? and broly needed several hits to take goku down for a while, whereas spc would just cut goku in half with one chop.
Cell was holding back. Remember when Krillin fataly wounded Vegeta on Namek when Vegeta held back his power when at full power he could destory Krillin.
- Problem is, Cell also briefly exposed his power to Krillin when he kicked the latter upside the head and nearly killed him, and Goku basically assessed the amount of power during their little "small talk." Plus, Cell implied that he was going to raise his power level gradually during the fight. Weedle McHairybug 22:15, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
- broly would probaly be winning then cell would destroy the planet broly would put up a energy sheild survive then suffacate in space and cell would regenarate my vote broly stronger but cell win
- Broly would still win, he can breath in space with his shield up, how do you think him and his dad lived when broly put up a shield when he was a BABY! and in his LSSJ form, broly keeps getting stronger and stronger, so broly would win.
Cell, there is no doubt about it.[]
Just because ssj2 is double ssj doesn't not mean ssj2=2ssj. as all the atributes are divided between two people neither would be able to keep up with the ssj2. Also if ssj2 Gohan wouldn't be able to beat Broly then why did he damage Broly in his ssj2 form AFTER Broly had gotten a Zenkai boost when Gohan is said to be weaker then when he fought at the cell games. Not only that but Broly doesn't fit into the main timeline meaning that it is an alternate universe and that not everything matches the main timeline.SSJ4 Vegito 12:43, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
This entire post is completely wrong. All I see here is a Broly fanboy who goes by the inaccurate mistranslation of the 12,000,000 and 15,000,000 power levels. The real ones are 120,000,000 and 150,000,000. You just said Perfect Cell power level was 150,000,000 so your saying Perfect Cell = SSJ Goku on Namek?! No just no. Also your saying Broly is between SSJ3 Goku in Z and SSJ4Goku in GT? Pure fanboyism. Fanboys are not meant to be taken seriously in a discussion. Espiecally since you go by those mistranslated power levels. Also your just using your own pure opinionated power levels which is not helping your case. Super Perfect Cell with his Solar Kamehameha would destroy Broly. Hands down. Lssj4 17:10, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
You know were talking about perfect cell not super perfect cell lssj4
Which Cell[]
Is it Perfect Cell or Super Perfect Cell?
If the second than Cell wins. If the first than it's about even.
For those who don't know the difference, Super Perfect Cell was the form Cell took on when he regenerated from his self distruction. He was also more than a match for Gohan at SSj2 (maybe)
- Actually, it was implied that Super Perfect Cell was still inferior to Gohan's SSJ2 form (Goku basically encouraged Gohan to beat Cell, and hinted that Gohan may have retained a lot more power than he led himself to believe with the injury). Weedle McHairybug 18:20, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
- guess who injured him in the first place? cell.
Were talkin 'bout perfect cell
Well I still stand by my opinion that Gohan was a complete douche for not finishing Cell.
Okay, when I wrote myf first post earlier this week and read LSSJ4's post, I was a little upset for him calling me a fanboy, and I am, but after cooling my head I may have been overexagerating Broly's powerlevel. So here is my new post. I'm still going with Broly winning against Cell's perfect form. Here is my opinion. When Broly first transforms into Legendary Super Saiyan, his power is equal or greater than that of SSJ 2 Gohan in the Cell Games.
no he isnt. if it was, he would have killed them all with one hit each like when gohan fought cell jrs.
Broly would pretty much overwhelm Cell with his brute strength and power. Cell wouldn't stand a chance against Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form.
yes he would. having just brute strength is a disadvantage vs someone like cell. taiyoken + kienzan = dead broly.
Well that's a massive exaggeration
Broly literally does nothing in movie 8 to show he's a ssj2 lvl fighter. the scene where he walks through Goku's kamehameha is directly copied from the scene where Imperfect Cell walks through Piccolo's attack. I encourage u all to watch the two scenes and realize they are the same. The IT kamehameha had no effect on the making of the Broly scene.
Furthermore, the IT kamehameha was charged ALOT longer and used up all of Goku's energy in a desperate attempt to overtake Cell. Goku wasn't even breathing hard after the Broly kamehameha
furthermore against Goku Cell was fighting in a suppressed form and not even using that suppressed forms full speed/power. suppressed cell full speed/power alone would be enough to own goku, and prob the z fighters too. FpCell would pwn them all without even breaking a sweat.
I continue, in the Broly movie after goku walks through Broly's ki blasts, Broly says why don't u give up and charges an attack for probably around 5 or more seconds before screaming and throwing it at Goku, finally koing him. compare that to ssj2 gohan, who likely could have cut goku in half with a punch. or at least instant ko him. or compare that to spcell, who with an uncharged ki blast took out gohan ssj2's arm. of course after instant koing Vegeta with a slap.
Broly hit Piccolo multiple times before screaming and sending Piccolo on a ki blast. Piccolo got right back up to rejoin the baqttle. SpCell owned Piccolo and three others with nothing but his ki while at the same time overpowering ssj2 Gohan and enjoying himself.
Broly didn't instant ko ppl as some say, he was constantly fighting them in the background.
Imo, Broly's lssj form is only a little bit stronger than ussj. He was simply already stronger as a ssj than everyone else. Broly movie 8 lssj is somewhat weaker than fpcell. Broly movie 10 is around spcell's lvl. he was beaten in a struggle by 3 ssjs, two of which combined were likely around goku's level while beaten up if even that, so Broly was basically pwned by a ssj2 Goku lvl kamehameha. he overpowered them INDIVIDUALLY, but when they combined into one power they were clearly way superior to him in power.
aqnd the adult ssj2 gohan Broly fought is alot weaker than ssj2 gohan cell games. No, he's not toei haxed, he said he was stronger than before = stronger than movie 8 when he was a weakling
Broly stands no chance against an equal fighter who's a fighting genius, can breathe in space, knows all the z fighter's techniques, can absorb people, can teleport around the universe instantly with IT, and can regenerate from a single cell.
Broly 100%
Broly is too strong. Goku had trouble with Broly and not with Cell.
what do you mean not with cell? goku would have died against cel
He destroyed the South Galaxy and arious planets no he didnt. if he destroyed the whole thing, then the movie wouldnt take place because new planet vegeta is IN the south galaxy.
, whereas Cell did not. He is the Legendary Super Saiyan for a reason. He constantly gets stronger and Cell can't.Where I stand, hands down I have to give it to Broly. Btw he beat the shit out of SSj2 Gohan
and lost to three ssj1s.
- I feel the urge to add corrections to your post. During Goku vs Cell, Cell was fighting at a supressed power level and still had the upper hand. There is no evidence to suggest that Broly constantly gets stronger; how did this rumor even begin? This is First-coming Broly we're talking about, SSJ2 hadn't been introduced yet. That said, I feel Broly would beat Perfect Cell. Broly's feats are much below SSJ2 Gohan's, but slightly above Perfect Cell's. Either way, close fight and Broly might win, but he's not as strong as you think. Janemba4eva 09:02, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
lol
Cell Would Win[]
Alright alot of people seem to misunderstand how the super saiyan power increase works. The ssj2 form multplies the power of the saiyan using it. So ssj2 Gohan is the equivalent of two ssj1 gohans, not just two generic super saiyans. For example super saiyan goku on namek is alot weaker then the super saiyan Gohan who fought cell, Gohans ssj2 form is alot more then 2 ssj gokus (namek). That being cleared up lets move over to how strong Broly is. As some people have mentioned before this movie doesnt fit into the ten day wait period, a clear example of this is the fact that Gohan is far and away the weakest saiyan which is incorrect since after everyone has left the ROSAT Gohan is the strongest even without his ssj2 transformation. Cell displays power that completely outclasses everyone at the cell games, during his battle with Goku he is holding back his full power. This suppression is pretty significant since the z-fighters were completely shocked and left hopeless (for a moment) due to his "new" larger power. People say that Cell couldnt have beaten all of the z-fighters like broly did, thats a lie. During the cell games Trunks suggests that everyone attack cell as a group and Vegeta shoots him down saying that all of them working together wouldnt be enough. Broly and Cell have similiar power levels but the reason that Cell would win is because of his intelligence and regeneration ablities. Also on a side note Broly is not stronger then ssj2 Gohan let alone ssj3 Goku. And theres my rant, whew. Jpark0015 00:49, October 31, 2011 (UTC)
Gohan wasn't SSJ2 against Broly LOL. He wasn't SSJ2 against Hatchiyak either and that was after Broly. Broly and Hatchiyak (if you try to squeeze them in the timeline) happened during the 10 days of rest, Cell gave the Z-fighters. When they fought Broly, Goku and Gohan were FPSSJ's Vegeta and Trunks were ASSJ's and Piccolo was a Super Namek. If Gohan had the SSJ2 state, he would've used it against Broly, since Broly was dominating everyone...just as he used it against Bojack.
Given the facts, and timline, Broly=PC (Percet Cell) or maybe stronger/weaker (it's close so I think it's safe to say equal, for the sake of arguement). Broly<SPC (Super Perfect Cell). Broly would NOT have been able to defeat SSJ2 Kid Gohan...and anyone who says that the only "SSJ state" that can stop Broly, would be SSJ3, is totally a Broly fan.
Forgot to sing my Post above. SuperGogeta91 18:15, October 31, 2011 (UTC)
Broly Wins[]
Ok it is very obvious Broly wins. Lets lay down the facts.
Broly:
1. Ok so MSSJ Goku/Gohan, USSJ Trunks/Vegeta and Piccolo (Super Namek) all get pwned by LSSJ Broly. Ok so forget about adding their powers together. Their powers where not added. Power levels are only added if people donate energy to each other (Like when everyone gave their energy to MSSJ Goku vs LSSJ Broly) or do a energy attack together (Like MSSJ Gohan and USSJ Trunks doing a Masenko) or combine their energy attacks. (Like Family Kamehameha). So Broly beat them all individuaily. Because each of them attacked with their own individual attacks they where not combined. So forget adding that to the arguement.
2. Broly's power continues to increase constantly non-stop.
no it doesnt. you made that up out of your ass.
Don't say its opinion and not fact. Because he said himself "getting stronger, yes much stronger" then he powers up and releases excess ki.
that happened a grand total of ONCE. it never happened again. meaning he cannot and does not "constantly" get stronger. plus every saiyan can power up. that is nothing new. and broly didnt say that. he said "my ki is rising, its overflowing". which is a cocky way of saying "yeah man im strongest. no one can beat me"
So that is clear he is constantly overflowing with power. It is also obvious how he was born with a power level of 10,000 yet has a power level in the billions in his SSJ and LSSJ forms years later as a adult. Due to no indication of training at all.
bullshit. he does indeed train. you dont get huge muslces by sitting on your ass all day every day. try it for yourself.
That is complete bull and makes no sense if his power does not contiually rise.
3. Broly took on MSSJ Goku's Kamehameha head on. Yet suffered no damage. While Perfect Cell had his entire top half destroyed. Tho Cell was not at full power. So that may not count.
completely different situations. cell was not even close to showing his real power and held back for the sport of an even fight. plus he was caught off guard but broly saw it coming and walked into it. goku was left severely weak after the cell kamehameha but didnt even seem out of breath after hitting broly meaning he put more power into the former attack.
Cell
1. Cell is stronger then USSJ Vegeta and USSJ2 Trunks. He is also stronger then MSSJ Goku and Gohan. And obviously Piccolo aswell.
2. Cell was pwned by SSJ2 Gohan. It is unknown if SSJ2 Gohan could beat Broly only being 2 times stronger. But I highly doubt it.
what do you mean 2x stronger? gohan killed 7 cell jrs with one blow each. broly needed many many blows to keep ssj1 goku held down.
3. Cell can regenerate and has many other techniques that Broly does not. But Broly's rising power level may be Cell's defeat.
Overall Broly has to win. I am not a Broly fanboy just because of my name. Infact I hate Broly he is one of my most hated characters. But all facts point to him. EntertainmentFan14 19:05, October 31, 2011 (UTC)
People are confused about power levels. I saw someone say that because one cell jr. is equal to one Vegeta assj
no he isnt. cel jr beat up vegeta. even deflecting final flash.
that ssj2 gohan was equal to 7 ascended vegetas because he killed 7 cell jr. also that mssj goku and gohan were equal to ssj2 gohan and because of that broly was clearly stronger. Think about this if you took 1000 farmers (power level of 5 each) and pitted them against goku at the begining of DBZ them combined would have a power much greater than him however none of them would have been able to injure him and their combined power would mean nothing. Two people with a power of 100 combined would be weaker than a single person with a power level of 100. I personally think Cell would win but who knows. Inutsu 20:10, October 31, 2011 (UTC)
Think about it for a second.[]
Ok think about it. In "Second Coming" Broly comes back from a frozen sleep even more powerful and pissed, as do most Saiyans after near death expirences. We know that Gohan in the movie goes into ssj2. Now for the people who say that he's weaker then he was when he fought Cell. If hes weaker then that clearly makes him not a ssj2 but a mssj. Yet he is in his ssj2 form when fighting Broly. However we know that Gohan defeats Broly though, but not with out help from his younger brother Goten, Trunks, Videl, and from Goku giving encouragment and Ki from the afterlife to help him to Barely just blast Broly into the Sun.
what do you mean barely? plus gohan was ssj1 in the final beamstruggle. not ssj2.
So if a ssj2 Gohan barely can defeat Broly by blasting him into the Sun to kill him. How can a Super Perfect Cell defeat Broly when he can't even beat a ssj2 kid gohan?
because gohan is MUCH stronger against cell than against broly and gohan wasnt full powered vs broly since he wasnt lost in rage.
Goku's last attack didn't even kill Broly, SSJ2 Gohan killed Cell, but Goku+Gohan+Trunks+Vegeta+Piccolo did not kill Broly.
who cares? we all know gohan alone >>>>>>>>weakened ssj goku + near dead base saiyans and near death piccolo. even at full power, ssj2 gohan by himself > 4 ssj1s.
Also if the movie took place during the Cell Games saga, Goku fought on par with Cell in the beginning whereas his attacks never damaged Broly at all,
no he didnt. cell was massively holding back most of his power vs cell.
Super Perfect Cell is another story but the title of the forum is about Perfect Cell anyway. Also Vegeta continuously claims that he will be the one to finish off Cell during that saga (despite being weaker)
he claimed that once but was immediately shut up when cell powered up to goku's level. from then on vegeta admitted goku was stronger and so was cell.
but when Broly powers up Vegeta backs off, if he knew he could beat Cell (even if he is wrong) but backs down against Broly, clearly Broly would be stronger than Cell.
This is such a weak piece of evidence and logic. Vegeta could sense power levels when he fought Frieza final form and he thought he stood a chance; he was no where near in Frieza's league. You can't always trust these obscure and sometimes misguided statements of characters within the story. The only piece of evidence that you need to know that they are at least similar in power is that Cell dismantled all the Z-fighters while suppressed; if you look at the reactions of everyone, including Goku, when Cell reveals his true power against SS2 Gohan, I think it's clear that he could have beaten them all even if they had ganged up on him if Gohan wasn't SS2 (Vegeta states while Cell is weakened during his fight with Goku that they couldn't win if they ganged up - and notice I'm only using this statement for support. Since the Broly movie cannot possibly even fit in the anime timeline (which I think is a little more appropriate to compare to a movie than the manga), it cannot even be proven that Trunks and Vegeta have spent their 2nd day in the time chamber, or that Piccolo had gone in at all for that matter. So at very best Broly lost against a smaller team of the Z-fighters, exactly as they were at the Cell Games, whereas Cell dismantled them. Finally, if you can draw that their powers must be similar from this, as others have stated I think it's obvious that Cell has the advantage in the intelligence/abilites category (as others have stated the whole Broly's power constantly increases myth is based off another obscure line in the original japanese version: and even if you do consider this proof enough, how rapidly does it increase? It's such weak evidence compared to the rest)70.185.126.215 06:04, November 1, 2012 (UTC)Hausenator
that doesnt make any sense. ive never heard vegeta claim he can beat fully powered cell (the one who got twoshotted by ssj2 kid gohan)
Broly also has the fire-power in his attacks that most of the other Super Saiyans don't have access to, their best shots at beating Cell were Kamehameha's etc, whereas Broly's Gigantic Meteor is enormous and would be able to destroy Cell.
no it wont. broly lost to ssj1 kamehamehas. cell barely lost to a big bang attack and ssj2 kamehameha.
Broly>Cell. Latchley 13:51, November 23, 2011 (UTC)
BROLY[]
Remember in second coming Gohan was fighting as an ssj2 and it did very little damage on broly even though this gohan is weaker than the one that fought cell he could still beat perfect cell and broly fought agains 3 super saiyans and seemed unfazed by their attacks.Ittook a whole family kamehameha to finnaly defeat broly while it only took 1 to defeat cell
Cell is smarter hell win
We're not talking about Broly from Second Coming anyway but Super P. Cell was significantly stronger than even SSJ2 Pre-Teen Gohan, the Gohan who is stronger than SSJ2 Teen/Adult Gohan. Since we're talking P.Cell and LSSJ Broly (First Coming) they're evenly matched because P. Cell was using only half his power against both MSSJ Goku and Gohan. SSJ 2 (talk) 22:03, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
However you are ignoring the fact that Gohan had a broken arm from saving vegeta and they were and Gohan's 1 armed kamehameha was able to hold him at bay for a while. Plus the disscusion is about regular Perfect Cell not Super Perfect. NOOOOOOO GOHAN WAS SS2 FOR 3 MINITS BUT EGENS CELL HE WAS SS2 LIKE THE HOLE MOVE SO CELL WILL KICK BROLYS ASS
Everyone has forgot[]
Broly in First Coming wasn't fighting seriously he was taunting and taking his time so we have no idea really what he was fully capable of but Im pretty sure its like this.
Broly>Perfect Cell
Even More Perfect Cell>Broly
Zenkai Broly>EMP Cell
They're equal[]
In terms of strength they are equal, but Cell's smarts would help him win this battle.
~Final~
~Dragon~
~Flash!!~ 19:13, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
This is just absurd. How could you compare gohan ssj2 to the legendary super sayian?
? the goku defeating broly at the end of movie 8 have more of the power of a ssj1. It was the fusion of powers of the z fighter that made him stronger. I am positif that this is where the idea of the fusion came from. goku movie 8 with the others power could single punch a ssj2. And how is cell stronger when he got knocked out by pikkon with one hit? in the dbz universe, only 2 fighters were causing mayhem in hell, janemba and Broly. So by the time of movie 12, cell was already dead and was in hell. If broly was ruling in hell, it just implied that he was stronger than all the vilain including cell himself so broly >> cell any form period. goku ssj2 didn t defeat broly alone in hell he went with pikkon. so maybe a ssj2 + a ssj1 is what necessary to defeat broly. Movie 8 goku asked gohan to leave so gohan was no match. gohan movie 8 was intended to be the same gohan as the manga. since gohan turned for the first time in the chamber. So when he got out, he already had the hidden power. he fled broly so he was no match. Also u gotta b stupid enough to think gohan ssj2 in movie 10 beat broly. Broly was outmatching gohan ssj2 in movie 10. gohan got stronger, he himself stated it so this weaker thing doesn t stand. he got beat by broly until the beam struggle. gohan was ssj1 goten was ssj1, so if goku wasn t present could someone explain to me how a weak ssj1 was able to defeat him and a fresh ssj2 failed to beat him??? if you can t give an explanation, it just mean goku was present for a short period of time hint(the dragon ball weren t activated just for santa close to show up). and this goku had been training for 7 years, so his power shouldn t be underestimate. and how the hell again a ssj2 b stronger than the legenday sayian again. isn t the legendary super sayian made to be the stronguest of all sayians this is why the title is legendary?? please go look legendary in the dictionary and get back at me thank you
broly will kick cells but[]
well well well broly can go ss5. cell onley ss1..................................................................................... so when broly v.s. goku broly was not holding back he did not know ss5. but on dragon ball af he can tern ss5. so broly WILL kick cells but
wow u guys dont know that according to v-jump broly is almost half as strong gogeta ssj1 p.s gogeta 2,500,000,000 and broly 1,400,000,000 which aslso mean he either is almost or stonger than super sayian 3 goku in the buu saga
also since we dont know if the fusion adds or multyply power levels then depending on that brolly would way more powerful then goku at that point in time...one more thing broly didnt get killed by goku and was hit in his only weak spot where he was stabed as a infant.
Deathblaze1 01:05, June 11, 2012 (UTC)deathblaze1Deathblaze1 01:05, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
Broly is stronger[]
Everyone went two rounds against broly in the movie. They were all given senzu beans by piccolo but broly still beat them effortlessly whereas cell would've been defeated by ssj1 goku if he had not been given the senzu bean(after goku had eaten it).
Broly > Cell[]
Broly is stronger.
In the Cell Saga, Goku and Cell were ALMOST evenly matched. But Broly mopped the floor with all of the Saiyan Z-Fighters. At least they stood a chance against Cell. Even after Cell became Super Perfect.
Fear my sweet Taco love of Upgradey Doom! 07:35, June 13, 2012 (UTC)
Cell wasnt even at 50% when he fucked up Goku.Give me solid proof.
wow u guys dont know that according to v-jump broly is almost half as strong gogeta ssj1 p.s gogeta2,500,000,000 and broly 1,400,000,000 which aslso mean he either is almost or stonger than super sayian 3 goku in the buu saga
also since we dont know if the fusion adds or multyply power levels then depending on that brolly would way more powerful then goku at that point in time...one more thing broly didnt get killed by goku and was hit in his only weak spot where he was stabed as a infant.
broly[]
cell is way more weaker compared to broly.the only reason why broly died is because everybody gave all their enargy to goku and goku got broly unexpected and hits him in his chest.
Consider the following. Dabura is just as powerful as Cell as stated byy Goku. Gohans SSJ2 form vs Dabura were completly even. And Broly ripped him apart but because of his zenkai he was much stronger than his first appearance. So Movie 8 we can say his power is around equal to Cell if not the advantage since the LSSJ form doesnt consume energy and it keeps going up. So Broly equals Cell in his Movie 8 appearance.
LSS Broly > Super Perfect Cell[]
Broly would definitely defeat Cell. Just look at it logically from movie 10: Gohan was SS 2 in this movie and LSS Broly was more than strong enough to take down SS 2 Gohan. In fact, a punch from SS 2 Gohan smack square on Broly's face had no impact on LSS Broly at all. Vegeta says in the manga that SS 2 Gohan is about half as strong as he was when he fought Cell, but guess what? 50% kid Gohan was able to overcome and defeat Super Perfect Cell, while LSS Broly easily pummeled SS 2 adult Gohan and SS 2 adult Gohan = 50% kid Gohan.
Some want to argue that Gohan was not SS 2 in movie 10 but think about the facts: first compare the pictures of Gohan in movie 10 to known SS 2 pictures of Gohan, they are identical! The only reason people say that Gohan was not SS 2 was due to lack of electricity, but TOEI often inconsistently portrays the SS 2 and 3 levels! Just take a look at SS 2 Gohan versus Dabura, no electricity! If you want to argue that Gohan was just SS 1 for that fight, then it would make no sense for Vegeta to claim he was only 1/2 as strong as SS 2 kid Gohan. Also, many times in the movies SS 2 Vegeta is shown without electricity like his fight against Janemba. If you want to argue that Vegeta was just SS 1, again, compare pics of him as a SS 2 in that movie and pics of him where he is unarguably known to be SS 2. Also, why would Vegeta fight as a SS 1 when he just witnessed SS 3 Goku get owned by Janemba? He wouldn't. He was SS 2, yet, he lacked electricity. Fact is, electricity is not the 100% confirmation for SS 2.
Going back to movie 10, if Gohan was just SS 1, then why would Broly feel the need to transform to LSS? Broly isn't intimidated by SS 1's while he is in SS 1 form, otherwise if he was, he would have powered up to LSS the moment he saw Trunks and Goten turn SS.
So, this is the way I see it: LSS Broly > SS 2 ault Gohan = 50% SS 2 kid Gohan > Super Perfect Cell. Which means, LSS Broly > Super Perfect Cell.
I think LSS Broly in movie 10 = SS 2 kid Gohan
Close, but Cell[]
During the first coming, Broly at his max was stated to be 1,400,000,000. Perfect Cell is estimated to be about 1,450,000,000. In his buff form, he's about 2,200,000,000 and 3,000,000,000 when he's Super Perfect.
Now, during the second coming, Broly's power level has skyrocketed to 5,000,000,000.
It's ok to speculate power levels, but you should never use them in a real argument (Cell and Second Coming Broly were never stated).
I'd say Super Perfect Cell >= Second Coming Broly > Perfect Cell > First Broly.
cell[]
Cell hands down. he can regenerate. w/o regen, id say broly.
Broly without breaking a sweat[]
When you think it about it is really simple. When Trunks turned USSJ2, Cell said that Trunks' brute strength has surpassed his be a huge margain, even in his perfect form. The ONLY reason Trunks couldn't beat Cell was because that form was too slow and it consumed too much energy so Trunks couldn't maintain it at full capacity. If Trunks were able to retain his speed and energy, while remaining that strong, Cell would have been beaten really easily.
Well, Broly's Legendary Super Saiyan form is essentially as USS2 WITHOUT the weaknesses meaning the LSS form remains fast and he it only seems to gain energy. So Broly would defeat even a full power perfect Cell pretty easily.
DBZ fanboys of Broly try to hype up his strength too much by saying he is stronger than SS3 Goku, stronger than Omega Shenron, etc. But the fanboyism has created a lot of people who are on the opposite end of the spectrum who try to make Broly too weak, as a way to counter the fanboyism.
Remember, regular SS Broly was able to completely tank a kick to the neck by USS1 Vegeta and immediately after that, he was able to completely tank Vegeta's ki attack as if it were nothing at all. And this was Broly in just his SS form, let alone his LSS form.
So movie 8 Broly would be way too much for Perfect Cell to handle... now Super Perfect Cell might be a different story, but I'm sure if movie 10 Broly is even stronger than movie 8 Broly (and that does seem to be the case) then I'm sure he'd hand Super Perfect Cell his ass too.
Also, if we consider an expanded universe that even includes the story mode from the video games (not intro, but the actual STORY MODE) LSS Broly is ALWAYS shown to be superior to SS2 Gohan, even kid/teen Gohan. Now some people might rule this out as it is video games, but I'm sure TOEI approves the games and says, "Yes, that is accurate and how the fight would go should they ever meet." Some hardcore fans might say, "Well, those are games and not canon" but technically speaking, movies aren't canon either, only the manga is. So when talking about the strength of a non-canon character, it seems fair to use non-canon sources.
The truth about Brolys power[]
Everybody gets confuse when it was stated gohans power has gone down a half after the attack from spc. Look gohan before even tranforming into a ssj2 against cell had already lost alot of power from getting his ass kick when he was only fighting at mssj. Even at some point during thier fight piccolo and all the z fighters thought gohan was died when cell kicked him into a clif and not to mention the part where cell was hugging gohan so hard that he was coughing blood and his power was draining fast. So my point is when gohan turned ssj2 vs cell, he wasnt at full power at all but still managed to easily dominate 7 cell jr who were all stronger then the z fighters and yes including vegeta and trunks. If the fight had drawn longer, the cell jrs would have killed vegeta and trunks because of there unlimited ki and stanima. Basically the only one who would have had a chance to be completly even with one of the cell jrs would be goku if he was a full power. And as you can see in the first broly movie, goku is CLEARLY stronger then gohan but in the cell games goku knew gohan was stonger even without his hidden powers, as king ki stated when gohan powered up to mssj that he now was the strongest fighter in planet earth only behind cell. So the 7 cell jrs that ssj2 gohan easily destroyed were stronger then every single z fighter in broly first coming including goku. My point im trying to make is that what broly did in the movies was NOTHING THAT SSJ2 TEEN GOHAN OR PERFECT CELL COULDNT DO! Cell could have done the same thing if he wanted to just by going full power and pounding every z fighter like a stupid retard like broly did. Gohan in one blow could probaley kill all the z figihters in his ssj2 state. So broly in the first movie was at the most EVEN but i'll say weaker then perfect cell but was nothing compared to ssj2 gohan or spc. Now broly in the second coming i'll admit, is alot stronger then himself in the first movie. but still not stronger the gohan was against cell. Just to make everything clear, GOHAN WAS A SSJ2 WHEN HE FOUGHT BROLY IN MOVIE TWO. He did indeed put up a much better fight then before but still it was clear he was no match for him. This right here means broly got ALOT STRONGER due to almost being killed by goku and recovering increasing his strenght level mind blowing since he is a saiyan. And as you ppl say that vegeta stated gohans has only half of his power when he fought cell. As i said early in this arguement, gohan was already at almost half power when he transfrom against cell so techniaclly gohan in the buu saga only had about 40% OF HIS TRUE FULL POWER THAT HE HAD AGAINST CELL. People never see this but gohan never showed his true power when fighting against cell, if he would have turn ssj2 from the start right after goku picked him to fight next, gohans true power would have been EVEN STRONGER THEN MAJIN VEGETAS AND SSJ2 GOKU. So this means ssj2 gohan from the cell games was more then 2 times stronger then ssj2 gohan from buu arc. This all concludes that broly in second coming was stronger then ssj2 rusty gohan, but still weaker then ssj2 kid gohan from the cell games and any other ssj2 including spc, majin vegeta, ssj2 goku. I just wanted to make this clear to everybody because i heard ppl say ssj3 goku was the only one who could defeat broly one-one and gotenks ssj. THAT JUST PLAIN STUPIDITY! The chain goes FPssj2 kid gohan(enraged)=majin vegeta=ssj2 goku>ssj2 kid gohan(enraged)>=SPC>Broly second coming>ssj2 teen gohan>FP Perfect cell>=Broly first coming>Mssj goku
Broly is freaking amazing, his power, speed, and showing no mercy is his standing features. Yet, we have to look at this. Cell has some Amazing powers, as shown he can defeat the Z fighters without even going full power. toys with his prey( donefall to him sadily D;) and has one of the coolest abilities ever "Absorbtion". Sure Broly gets stronger when he is beaten to near death and lives. However, with Cell if you do not destroy 100% of his entire physical makeup[, then he will regenerate and get twice as strong with the saiyan cells. Also he has more abilities than Broly, whether it being regeneration, absorbtion, instant transmission, hell even the ability to use the techniques from people the cells made out of him. Also what happens if Broly destroys the planet like every dumbass supervillain in DBz does? He can not breathe in space, so what happens? He won because of a draw. with Cell, he'll have more plans to stop Broly, either by blowing up the planet, sending his spawn to attack with him, or even BLOWING HIMSELf UP!!! Since the android bombs are equivelant to like a super saiyan 2, since Gohan SSJ2 was terrified. Also this happened in Gt where Cell solar flared Goku, and absorbed him! If Broly falls into that plan, well then he could end up as food for the almighty Cell. So Broly is cool, but in the long run of the fight. I think Cell will ultimately destroy Broly by having many many many plans on doing so
Cell was a weak villain[]
When you think about it, Cell was a pretty weak villain comparatively speaking. Cell is the only villain that I know of where the Z-fighters didn't have to be in any type of trouble at all. Think about it:
1. Early into the Cell series, Perfect Cell is forced to admit that as far as pure strength goes, Ultra Super Saiyan Trunks' power has surpassed his by a large margain.
He said that Trunks power far surpassed him, in his CURRENT state. But after Cell transform into power weighted mode '(USSJ Cell) 'his power is much bigger than USSJ Trunks. Stronger base = stronger USSJ form. Hiruman (talk) 01:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
2. Goku and Gohan only spent one day in the RoSaT and that already was enough for Gohan to go SS2 and completely destroy Cell. SS2 Gohan was even holding back against Cell just to make Cell suffer and even when Cell powers up 100% he still can't even manage to do any damage to Gohan, and at this point, Gohan still isn't using much of his power.
It's a gamble because there's no other way to defeat Cell except' 'for relies on 'Gohan's hidden power. 'Well, it's a very bad comparison since it's very obvious that FPSSJ can't scratch a SSJ2. Now just look what he did to Gohan after he achieved SSJ2 form (SP Cell). Hiruman (talk) 01:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
3. Imagine how EASILY even Goku woud have handled Cell had he decided to train for one more day in the RoSaT.
He won't achieve SSJ2 form even he train for 1 more day. We're talking about Goku here, a pure blood saiyan who very love fighting. If he could defeat Cell with an extra day of training, he would already do that. Why bother asking for his son to take Cell head-on? To make Chi-Chi worry? Hiruman (talk)
>Because Goku already knew that after only one day Gohan could already beat Cell; he waned to pass the torch to Gohan. Make Chi-Chi worry? Are you f'n seriously using that as an argument? This is GOKU here! You know the guy who spends more time fighting than he does with his family (i.e. not coming home for over a year just so he could learn the instant transmission technique).
'> The last part was a joke :P. 'This is what he said after Piccolo decide to help Gohan, "just wait until Gohan gets angry, his real power will appear after he gets angry... The only chance we have of beating Cell is to rely on Gohan's hidden power". This isn't a sentence that could be uttered by people who have the possibility to win with 1 more day of training. It's more like he feel desperate and have no other choice but to rely on Gohan.
Here, You already know that Goku is the guy who spends more time fighting than he does with his family and how much he love fighting. It's just not in his personality to give up a fight he could win just to pass the torch to Gohan. The same Goku who let Vegeta escape form Earth just to fight him again... The same Goku who let Freeza reach his 100% power just to fight against strongest being in universe... The same Goku who want to test his strength against Android even though he had been warned by F. Trunks... And now after he knew that Gohan's Hidden Power could beat Cell, he suddenly became, "Ok, I'll let you hog all the glory with your Hidden Power son, but I'm not responsible if you died in the process, lol". It's contradicting isn't it?
Hey wait, but he already did that against Fat Buu!!! Yeah, It's because he's not alive anymore. In Cell Saga he's still alive and kick'n, dude Hiruman (talk) 15:16, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
>Um, that entire scene was all about Goku breaking character and passing the torch to Gohan. Since when does Goku stop trying? Goku would never just throw his arms up and say, "There is no way I could ever beat Cell, so I'm not even going to try to train for another year and get stronger." Previous to this, Goku has always given it his all and never gave up, regardless of how hopeless it seemed. All you've done is highlight that Goku was acting out of character, and with good reason: he passed the torch. -theGoon208.87.233.180 18:33, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
01:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Now compare that, to say Frieza: No where do we ever even remotely get the idea that anyone is superior to Frieza in any way, shape, or form. Frieza is superior to everyone in strength, speed, skill, etc but only a little more than half-way through the Cell series we already hear Perfect Cell admit Trunks is stronger. Also, even after Goku powers up to SS, Frieza is still able to give Goku one hell of a fight and Goku was trying his hardest. SS2 Gohan wasn't even trying with Cell and Cell even at 100% got clobbered so easily. Now, let's look at Buu: even when a brand-new SS level was introduced, SS3 Goku, even the weakest incarnations of Buu was strong enough to handle SS3 Goku. But then some incarnations of Buu (Super Buu) was even stronger than SS3, and yet, Mystic Gohan was stronger than SS3 Goku and even he couldn't handle Buutenks.
So for their time: Buu >> Frieza >>>>>>Cell
So with all that said, I don't get why Cell is getting so much credit as being a super-powerful villain. He sucked ass. Now let's look at Broly: he easily handled post-RoSaT characters without any effort at all. Don't give me this BS that Cell could do it too because there is no proof of that.
Cell didn't use his full power against FPSSJ Goku and Gohan, he was toying around with USSJ Trunks and defeat ASSJ Vegeta without much effort. If Perfect Cell decide to use his full power from the start, all Z fighters are pretty much dead already. Hiruman (talk) 01:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
>He tried to use his full power against SS2 Gohan and couldn't even phase Gohan at all, and Gohan even stated that he was holding back his power just so that he could make Cell suffer. Take Frieza on the other hand, even when Goku turned SS, Frieza put up one hell of a fight and Goku had to go all out. Or take Buu, even when SS3 was introduced, Buu still was able to keep up and some incarnations of Buu surpassed SS3 easily. But what happens when Gohan goes SS2 against Cell? He completely pisses his pants and turns into a total wuss. Face it. Cell, comparatively speaking, was a weak villain.
And I suppose that is true about any villain, if they all used their full power from the start, all the Z fighters would be dead. But the point is, even when the other villains (Buu, Frieza) realize they must use their full power, their power is enough to at least put up a great fight, unlike Cell. Again, what makes this even more pathetic is the fact that Gohan said he wasn't even trying. Cell was a weak villain.
Again, it's very biased comparison. If we go by your logic, we could say Buu is much much weaker than Cell. Super Buu was beaten very badly by SSJ3 Gotenks even at his full strength. He also completely beaten and pisses his pants in front of Gohan. Even Buu with Gohan, Gotens and Piccolo absorbed can't do a thing against a... WOW!!! A CANDY!!! A Coffee flavored candy!!! So isn't that make Freeza >> Cell >>> Buu...? Hiruman (talk) 15:16, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
>You're using SS3 Gotenks?! First, Super Buu got the best of SS3 Gotenks as Gotenks couldn't finish him and his fusion ran out... besides, Gotenks is a FUSION character! You do know that a fused character is exponentially stronger than a single, non-fused character, right? And are you talking about Ultimate/Mystic Gohan who is even STRONGER than SS3 Goku and SS3 Gotenks? Of course, Buu wasn't out though, as he absorbed Gotenks and Buutenks annihilated Mystic Gohan. I believe I've already brought these up. So your attempted refutation of my point simply doesn't work. Cell was annihilated by a single (non-fused) character that happened to go into the next SS level, he didn't even stand a chance at all. -theGoon208.87.233.180 17:13, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
Super Buu got the best of SS3 Gotenks because Gotenks fusion ran out and couldn't finish him? Isn't that same with Gohan that couldn't finish Cell because he's gonna explode?
Now,... I can't use SSJ3 Gotenks in my argument because he's a fused character, but it's okay for you to used it in Buutenks vs Gohan...? This "But then some incarnations of Buu (Super Buu) was even stronger than SS3, and yet, Mystic Gohan was stronger than SS3 Goku and even he couldn't handle Buutenks". Isn't Buutenks one of the fused character?
Even though SSJ3 Gotenks & U. Gohan couldn't finish Buu, it doesn't change the fact that both of them are much stronger than Buu. And it's still doesn't change the fact that Cell >>> Buu, since Buu can't do anything against a candy. Hiruman (talk) 18:50, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
'<<Now,... I can't use SSJ3 Gotenks in my argument because he's a fused character, but it's okay for you to used it in Buutenks vs Gohan...?>>'
>No, you missed the point of the reasons I brought that up. My point was that Perfect Cell was nothing compared to Gohan the moment Gohan turned SS2 and he couldn't even put up any fight whatsoever and Gohan was holding back a considerable amount of his power. Super Buu, however, can more than put up a fight against a SS3. To use SS3 Gotenks as someone who gave Super Buu a run for his money is a little bit of apples and oranges because SS2 Gohan (Cell era) is a non-fused character, but a SS3 Gotenks is a fusion character. Basically what I'm saying is that there is a MUCH greater gap between SS3 Gotenks and SS2 Gohan than there is between SS2 Gohan and SS1 Goku. And you should know that a fused character is always exponentially stronger, so it's not as easy as saying, "Well obviously Super Buu is weaker than SS3 because SS3 Gotenks could take him on." Otherwise we'd have to say Janemba was weaker than SS1 because SS1 Gogeta beat Janemba... oh but wait, Janemba whooped SS3 Goku, no problem. My point is that obviously a fused character is so much stronger than a non-fused character that a fused character can beat a non-fused character even if the non-fused character happens to be in a higher SS state. Obviously SS1 Gogeta >>>> SS3 Goku. Now, had Cell been defeated by a fused SS2 character, that would be one thing, but the point is that he got stomped hard by a non-fused SS2 teen Gohan.
So, no, I don't have a problem with you using a fused character so long as you do it properly. Saying Super Buu must be so much weaker than SS3 because SS3 Gotenks might have been able to beat him is like saying Janemba must be so much weaker than SS1 since SS1 Gogeta destroyed him without breaking a sweat. And just for the record, Super Buu did defeat SS3 Gotenks, are you forgetting that Super Buu absorbed SS3 Gotenks?
And I'm not sure what you mean by the candy argument. Clarify that because I'm not following it. -theGoon208.87.233.180 21:21, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
1. Sign your post please so we know who we are talking too. 2. I assume you completely forgot about Super Perfect Cell? Who fired one ki blast at Vegeta and then Gohan jumped in the way and the power was enough to completely disable his left arm and drop his power less then half? Did you forget about him? Cell was not a weak villain. It took SSJ2 Gohan to unleash his hidden power while in his SSJ2 state in order to destroy SPC. So Cell isn't weak. Wikian13000 (talk) 14:31, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
>I didn't forget about SPC. I'm just not impressed by SPC. First, that ki blast was to a SS2 Gohan who was not even trying to fight at the moment, but was instead trying to be a "human shield" for Vegeta. It would be like you just throwing yourself in front of someone's punch without worrying about defending/covering yourself from the punch, because you're just worried about the other person.
Second, Gohan said his power was less than 50% and he thought he didn't have it in him to compete with SPC anymore, but even at 50% of his normal strength as a SS2, Gohan was able to muster up enough strength to finish off SPC. I know, right now you're thinking, "He had his hidden powers unleashed" but imagine if Gohan was at 100% and then he unleashed his hidden powers, he would be even that much stronger. Let's put it this way: 100% SS2 Gohan + hidden powers > 50% SS2 Gohan + hidden powers > SPC. Sorry, Cell simply wasn't impressive. 208.87.233.180 15:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)theGoon.
Well....[]
CELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL WOULD DECIMATE BROLY! Broly wouldn't stand a chance against him. Perfect Cell was much stronger than Broly. NO ELABORATION NEEDED! The truth is here and you have no chance to deny it. Mysterious Luster (talk) 04:55, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
BROLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY WOULD DECIMATE CELL! Cell wouldn't stand a chance against him. LSS Broly was much stronger than Cell. NO ELABORATION NEEDED! The truth is here and you have no chance to deny it. 208.87.233.180 14:40, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
Did you think you were so clever copying my own words? If you have guts then show it rather redoing the actions what other people do. I don't have any intention to have a talk fight on this forum with you so I won't drag another big topic on that, after all it's the internet so I don't care what you do or will do.
And.. as I said previously "NO ELABORATION NEEDED" I shall not continue giving my opinions on this forum. If you wait for my answer to this topic then reread the above writting. Mysterious Luster (talk) 17:22, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
Clever? No, just highlighting the stupidity of your post. Anyone can just say, "Character X would decimate character Y and there is no explanation needed!!!" but what does that solve? Nothing. -theGoon208.87.233.180 18:30, August 30, 2012 (UTC)
There's no need to highlight that and if you still need the explanation here it is..
1. Cell has the regeneration ability what Broly doesn't have
2. Cell has the Zenkai power healing ability what Broly doesn't have
3. Cell has the absorption ability what Broly doesn't have
4. Cell can create his clones named Cell Jr.s and many more..
These are the abilities that Cell has if we don't involve the energy of those two characters. If we do consider the energy then my choice will still stick to Cell because Cell (in Super Pefect form) is much more powerful than LSSJ Broly. Cell proved himselft to be more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan when he fired a ki blast against Vegeta. That caused Gohan a serious arm injury and after the attack Cell's reaction proves the fact that he didn't give much energy into that ki blast. Commonly, it is known that SSJ2 Gohan is powerful than LSSJ Broly, however Broly (in LSSJ form) was witnessed to be a HEAVY challenge for SSJ2 adult Gohan but as a reason of it we know that Gohan didn't take the training after the era of Cell which worked as a major cause for him to be less powerful than he was before. So, after considering this I think Cell would be the winner.
And if we talk about Perfect Cell and Broly then my answer will be the same because Cell has fought the same fighters who Broly has fought. But, the difference is it took eventually a complete SSJ2 to defeat Cell while Broly was defeated without a SSJ2. Simply it indicates that Cell was a heavy villain for the Z fighters to beat while Broly was not that heavy ( heavy is used here not to state the weight but to mean the power of them). So, after all of this Perfect Cell would defeat Broly(first coming). The End.. Mysterious Luster (talk) 04:27, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
>Nice try, but still wrong:
<<And if we talk about Perfect Cell and Broly then my answer will be the same because Cell has fought the same fighters who Broly has fought. But, the difference is it took eventually a complete SSJ2 to defeat Cell while Broly was defeated without a SSJ2. Simply it indicates that Cell was a heavy villain for the Z fighters to beat while Broly was not that heavy ( heavy is used here not to state the weight but to mean the power of them). So, after all of this Perfect Cell would defeat Broly(first coming).>>
First off, SS2 kid Gohan wasn’t even trying against Cell. He said he was holding back most of his power because he wanted Cell to suffer, and Cell was getting creamed by a SS2 who wasn’t even trying. Even after going full power, Perfect Cell got creamed by Gohan and Gohan still wasn’t even trying. Heck, Cell couldn’t even do any damage to Gohan even after Gohan let him have a free punch on him.
As for SS1 Goku defeating LSS Broly, this is simply PIS. And here’s why: it’s non-debatable that LSS is a higher form of SS than SS1. It’s obvious. If it wasn’t, then there would be no point in Broly powering up to LSS since he already has a SS1 form. That said, since SS1 is inferior to LSS, a SS1 shouldn’t be able to kill a LSS, no matter what. Just as a base form Saiyan should never be able to defeat a SS or just as a SS1 should never be able to defeat a SS2, etc
And DB is full of PIS everywhere. Think about it: Perfect Cell and Frieza were both defeated very easily by base-form Goku in GT. You might be thinking, “But Goku was so much stronger by the time of GT!” but it doesn’t matter. Fact is, a base-form character should never be able to defeat a SS level character, let alone a SS2 level character, and then to top it off, Goku wasn’t even trying. So, I could turn your argument around on your and claim that Cell was beaten by a base-form Goku. Or, how about this; Cell was EASILY defeated by Pikkon, a character who is only a SS1 level character.
My point is that Cell should NEVER be beaten by a SS1 level character, and definitely never be beaten by a base-form Saiyan; this is all PIS. LSS Broly getting beat by SS1 Goku is also PIS. Not to mention the very real fact that at the time of movie 8, SS2 wasn’t invented yet; so the animators at TOEI had no way of letting LSS Broly compete with a SS2 level character yet.
Now, as for movie 10, LSS Broly was probably stronger than he was in movie 8, so I’m not going to say much, except that SS2 Adult Gohan was about 50% of the strength of SS2 Kid Gohan. Keep in mind, that SS2 kid Gohan wasn’t even trying against Cell and he said he was holding back most of his power, indicating that he was using probably way less than 50% of his power and he stomped Cell. Then when SPC injured SS2 Gohan, Gohan said his power was cut in half, and 50% SS2 kid Gohan still had enough to actually kill SPC, but SS2 Adult Gohan is approximately the same strength as 50% SS2 kid Gohan according to Vegeta, and movie 10 LSS Broly was too much for him. -theGoon208.87.233.180 15:59, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
I don't know what PIS is but I concur that there are many things that are not appropiately related to some events according to what was shown as these things before in the series. I was shocked after seeing Pikkon when he beat Cell.. I was like how had he done this? He wasn't even able to fight an ASSJ, SSJ1 is suitable for him to carry out but HE BEAT PERFECT CELL?!?!?!?! Perfect Cell was slightly stronger than a FPSSJ and a FPSSJ is far more powerfull than ASSJ. So, how was it possible anyway? The creators just ruined the whole plot and as a result of it we are confused.
If you talk about SSJ Gohan vs SPC, SPC was much stronger than him. It was just Gohan's inaccurate expectation about SPC's power level which he ignored but the consequences were not that good, he sustained his arm injury that broke his arm and that was bleeding so badly that he couldn't even able to stand up well. Later, he understood what mistake he has done ignoring SPC's Power level. Actually, everyone who was present at the spot surprised to see Cell being alive. Perhaps, that's why they couldn't measure how powerful he had become then.. and as a result, Gohan was injured which means SPC's superiority over Gohan.
And.. "Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan" descirbes the time prior to Cell Games though movie events don't match the series mostly but however.. according to the whole series Broly is supposed to be less powerful than Perfect Cell since this movie is about the pre-events that happened before Cell invited Z fighters on his arena. Mysterious Luster (talk) 15:42, September 1, 2012 (UTC)
>"PIS" means plot induced stupidity--it is when the writers either purposely or inadvertantly do something that makes no sense. Pikkon beating Cell (and just to give you something to think about, he was Super Perfect Cell) is PIS. Base-form Goku toying with Cell & Frieza is PIS. LSS Broly getting beat by SS1 Goku is PIS.
We should be fair and consistent here. It is unfair to say LSS Broly is weaker than SS1 Goku when we know that makes no sense since the LSS form is higher than SS1. Otherwise, if someone wants to stick to that, then it is fair for me to say Cell must be even weaker than a base-form Saiyan since he was defeated by base-form Goku.
As for SS2 Gohan being injured by SPC, I attribute this to Gohan acting as a human shield for Vegeta. He wasn't trying to deflect the blast or defend himself in any way; his only concern was to throw himself in harm's way to protect Vegeta. It would as if you just throw yourself in front of someone's punch to protect someone else, without trying to be "ready" for the punch. But still, SS2 Gohan, even at 50% had enough to kill SPC. Gohan's biggest weakness as a kid was always his lack of confidence. But remember what he said when Goku gave him that talk? Gohan bucked up and said, "I've only got one arm, but that's all I need to defeat him." Piccolo said it himself when Gohan was getting tortured by Cell (before he turned SS2): he told Goku that Gohan isn't like him, that Gohan doesn't get angry, he gets scared and has a defeatist's attitude. So I would disagree with those who say that SPC was stronger than SS2 kid Gohan. I think SS2 kid Gohan was stronger. I mean, if he could kill him with only 50% of his SS2 power, then imagine if he was never injured at all.
In my personal opinion, there isn't enough info on LSS Broly to definitively state how strong he is. But there are certain things to take into account if we include an expanded universe. If we allow for the story mode from the games, then LSS Broly is always depicted as stronger than SS2 Gohan, and seems to be equal to SS2 Vegeta. And keep in mind, I'm talking about the story mode, not cut scenes (which are purely for entertainment value) nor am I talking about gameplay. I'm talking about the actual storyline. In Raging Blast 2, LSS Broly and SS2 kid Gohan fight and LSS Broly dominates him and SS2 kid Gohan says, "He's a monster!" but when LSS Broly meets SS2 Vegeta, they apparently stalemate and Vegeta says, "I thought you were better than this, or have I become too strong?" But of course, this is only if you allow the video game storylines, but that is something to think about. Especially since I'm pretty sure TOEI over looks the production of the games and approves them and says, "Yes, the character depictions and storylines faithfully represent our characters." But I wills say this much, IF video games don't count, then people need to stop bringing up that Goku says that Hatchiyack might be stronger than Broly. Because that OVA is from a video game, and if video games don't count, then Goku's claim there wouldn't count either.
But anyway, my point in all of this, is that I don't think it is a done deal that Cell is stronger than Broly. -theGoon208.87.233.180 13:19, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
Since this thread keeps getting revived, I might as well contribute again. Broly was shown to go 1 vs all against the Z fighters with the utmost of ease. It was implied by Vegeta that Perfect Cell could do the same, but it is not known if he could do so as effortlessly as Broly. The way I see it, Broly probably has a slight power advantage, but it would be a good match up given Cell's regeneration. And SP Cell was much stronger than Perfect Cell. SP Cell heavily damaged Gohan with a single blast. Granted it was an undefended shot, but Gohan was also able to tank several dead on attacks from Perfect Cell without flinching. Super Perfect Cell >> Broly ~/> Perfect Cell. On a side note, almost every DBZ movie contains some "PIS" and it's annoying as hell. Janemba4eva (talk) 16:05, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
== cant cell just streth his tail an suck him up like in gt?
>Sorry for reviving the thread. Though Broly isn't my favorite character or anything, I do find it interesting to try to gauge his strength. I sometimes think Toei was very smart in giving him a non-canon Super Saiyan form. If they would have made him, say, SS2, then it would be very obvious where his power is. That said, I cannot see Super Perfect Cell defeating movie 10 Broly, as they are. I can see Cell defeating Broly in some scenarios though. Like I could picture movie 10 LSS Broly injuring SPC bad enough for Cell to regenerate and get an instant Zenkai, which would make him surpass Broly. But taking them just as they are, I think movie 10 Broly would have SPC, but I can see SPC taking out movie 8 Broly. At minimum I think movie 8 Broly is more powerful than FPGoku but his max power is too hard to gauge. There's just not that much info on Broly to really give a definitive answer.
Video game story-line Broly seems to be more power than movie story-line Broly; video game story lines he seems equal to SS2 Vegeta or Goku, movie wise, he seems to be at most, a weak or possibly mid level SS2 (I'm basing that on his defeating SS2 Gohan). -theGoon208.87.233.180 19:06, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
==
== did broly go on a killing spree befor this fight? ==
one more thing, lssj broly has no power level, so lets just say it rises 1,000 evrey sec
<p />
belly vs perfect cell[]
Actually broly because of the simple fact that cell was beaten by a super saiyan 2 broly goes over ss2beats cells ass a lot quicker than ss2 gohan there's your answer test my theory put cell vs broly your welcome
the real no bullshit answer
Actually broly because of the simple fact that cell was beaten by
a super saiyan 2 broly goes over ss2beats cells ass a lot quicker than ss2 gohan there's your answer test my theory put cell vs broly your welcome
broly power rises evry second? btw cell would win
when was it ever said that broly's power rises every second answer that for btw i think cell would becasue it took a super saiyan 2 to defeat him plus this is about broly first coming vs cell if it was broly second coming or bio broly cell would lose
Broly says, "My ki is rising!" at one point, and he is much stronger in Second Coming even though he's only been sitting in an iceberg. People debate over the meaning of that, and lots of people come up with the idea that his power level constantly increases. Fatdude (talk) 01:20, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg6W68Dr9NE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg6W68Dr9NE</a>
Hello, I would like to make a video of Broly, and would like to know your opinions.Thank you
Is someone trolling? These posts keep getting messed up. Fatdude (talk) 01:22, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
Gohanssj2>perfect Cell>Broly>Gohanssj>ssj goku
Broly was beaten by Super Saiyan goku Cell was beaten by a Super Saiyan 2 Gohan proff Cell>broly his second coming is totaly different though
Power differential[]
I would say Broly, only because goku was matching cell's power durring the fight at the cell games but was dominated by broly durring their fight. goku needed all of his teamates' energy to beat broly, and he did it at the brink of death. that means he was more of a challenge. when the cell fight commenced, goku got out with barely a scratch. so by that comparrison, i would say broly.
Cell is stronger broly won't stand a chance against cell at full power or even when he was suppressed against goku. there no way broly is stronger just because he has big, muscles doesn't mean he is,invincible. Gohan wasn't ss2 in movie 10 he ss toei is not that incompetent. in terms of greatest to least cell,games ss2 gohan super perfect cell perfect cell mss goku broly. cell games goku is stronger than his movie 8,counterpart. movie 8 is in an alternate universe. So that's why,cell games goku is stronger. Any arguments that say second coming broly is stronger than cell is false. 2nd,time broly lost to a ss with seven years of no training and a half dead ss,child. Goku wasn't there that was their imagination. bottom line cell curb stomps broly hard. Brolytards hop off broly's dick.
Let's see...[]
Broly
Beats up on 4 Super Saiyans and a Super Namekian. Gohan was not a SSJ2 when they battled Broly because he did not have an electric aura surrounding him. Broly's power increases during battle. Goku wounded Broly in the chest as a injured Super Saiyan with the powers of Normal Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan ( all injured) and Piccolo. When Broly comes to Earth, He is destroyed by SSJ Goten, Gohan, and Goku, ALL trained from DBZ second part
Super Perfect Cell (full powered)
Loses to a SSJ2 Gohan with a heavily injured arm, but has the aid of SSJ Goku. All of the Z Fighters were going all out against Cell, but did not do anything. SSJ Vegeta unleashes a full powered Final Flash at Cell, only flinching him, giving Gohan/Goku to destroy Cell. Also Cell suppressed a lot of power against FPSSJ Goku.
My opinion
Super Perfect Cell will have the upper hand against Broly at the start. But, as he did with FPSSJ Goku, Cell might suppress his power just to get a good fight out of LSSJ Broly. Broly would probably get pissed at Cell for doing this, thus increasing his power. This drags out until Cell reaches his limits and Broly becomes too powerful for Cell. Cell blows himself up, regenerates, becomes even more powerful and kills Broly with an Instant Transmission Kamehameha he learned from Goku.
Broly wins
By the way, to the person who posted this; we are talking about PERFECT CELL, not Super Perfect Cell, genious.
Broly[]
Cell had the same strength as Goku. Now, if we talk about Super Perfect Cell, Gohan defeated him with a Kamehameha. Broly would defeat Super Perfect Cell too, but since were talking about Perfect Cell; He was as strong as Super Trunks, just that he was faster and had more attacks.
In Broly's first movie, you can see him destroying every sayan combined without struggling, including Super Trunks, Vegeta and everyone.
For people who didn't understand;
based on the power levels:
Gohan SSJ 2 = Everyone fighting Cell in Cell Saga (excluding Goku) combined
Gohan SSJ 2 > Perfect Cell
Broly = Everyone from the Cell Saga combined (including Goku)
Broly > Perfect Cell
The facts from the movie, anime, and manga, including the average power levels made the fact I just explained.
broly wins[]
I think broly would win cus his power level is always growing larger
Cell, not a lont but hard one.
<p />
Broly.[]
Because his power is maximum.
His power is maximum
Sandubadear
21:08, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Cell[]
I think cell is stronger because goku couldn't Thought that he wouldn't be able to kill cell. It took ssj2 gohan to kill cell which he was stronger then goku.
Perfect Cell Wins[]
Alright, so before I begin, let me go ahead and state one thing: This post is going to be about Broly from his first movie, not his second, since that's what this forum is about. I might address Broly's second movie in a later post, but I won't here.
So, now that that's out of the way, let's begin.
Broly is not stronger than all of his opponents' strength combined.
Broly was able to take on 4 Super Saiyans and a Super Namekian seperately. This does not mean that his strength is equal to all of their strengths combined. Let me provide a clear example as to why this is the case.
Goku and Vegeta were both Super Saiyans and fought against one Meta-Cooler. This Meta-Cooler was able to seemingly effortlessly keep up with both of them. Does that mean the Meta-Cooler is equal to an SSj2 Goku or Vegeta? No, it does not, simply because of the fact that he was more than capable of defending himself against each of their attacks seperately. Since teaming up with someone does not increase the two team members, the Meta-Cooler still had no problem defending against any attacks that Goku or Vegeta threw at him.
Another example of this is when Imperfect Cell took on Piccolo, Android 17, and Android 16 all at once without breaking a sweat. Android 17 was able to beat SSj Trunks, Piccolo, and Tien, and Android 16 was much stronger than 17. Piccolo had increased his strength to equal 17's, meaning that Piccolo and 17 would each have to be equal to SSj2's each, making Imperfect Cell equal to 3 SSj2's, which would kind of end the discussion right here. But, we know that's not the case, thus dismantling this argument.
There is no definitive power for an SSj, SSj2, SSj3, etc.
One thing that I see commonly (hell, I even used it in my argument refutation up there) is people saying how many SSj's or SSj2's someone is worth. This is something that shouldn't be used in argument due to the fact that Saiyans have differing levels of strength. For example, base Frieza saga Goku (with a power level of 3,000,000) would obliterate a SSj Raditz (who would have a power level of 60,000, since 1,200 X 50 = 60,000). Since 3,000,000/60,000 = 50, we would conclude that Goku is equal to 50 SSj's if using the "This guy is equal to 2 SSj's" argument/point/whatever was valid. But, as I said, it isn't.
The Kamehameha Theory isn't true.
The Kamehameha Theory is just the theory that since Broly tanked out a Kamehameha and Cell got ripped in half by one, Broly MUST be stronger. This theory has already been tossed out the window by other posters on this forum, so thanks for that.
Broly's Power does not constantly rise.
I don't need to go into too much detail about this one. He even states "My power is rising! Overflowing!" and then proceeds to release energy everywhere uncontrollably. This is due to the fact that he was at full power but trying to power up past that point. Bad idea, Broly.
Broly was beaten by one punch.
No matter how you look at it, the fact that it took one punch to beat Broly should definitely tell you something. True, Goku did get energy from all of his friends before beating Broly with that punch, but here's the thing: Everyone, including Goku, was near death. They had all been fighting for an extremely long time, and had exhausted a lot of their Ki and stamina. So, the energy they gave Goku, although I will admit there's no way to be certain about this, was most likely not that much. And, again, Broly went down with one punch.
Now then, I'll leave the rest to you guys.
Well i think that it would be broly because ssj2 gohan couldn't beat broly without ssj goten and ssj goku
My view[]
I'd say Broly is absolutely stronger in terms of Brute Strength, but Cell has a tactical advantage due to the racial abilities of his genetic construct. Broly's nuts and a lot more arrognat than Cell, with less strategy and variety in techniques, using only energy spheres. He can't survive in space without his energy shield. Broly was defeated by punching through the stomach. Would that work on Cell? No, he'd regenerate. As it has been said many times before, energy focused onto a single point can deal more damge than a wide one, and that's how they defeated Broly. He can't regenerate, and seems to have trouble controlling his power. And also, giving a person your energy seems to boost their power level. King Piccolo's weaker EDW couldn't kill Goku or even hurt him in the slightest, but his eye lasers snapped his legs due to focused energy. And cell was not hit fully by FF or IK. Vegeta diverted the beam upward to save the planet while Goku's attack was from an elevated angle to prevent damaging the planet, and therefore hitting only half of Cell's body(pity they wasted energy simply, a full on hit would've finished off P. Cell). And I don't think Cell would purposefully let himself be injured. He can feel pain and Namekian regeneration costs a lot of energy. So in a very much drawn out fight, Cell may win due to his endurance, but in a quick one, Broly has more chance. 1.4 bil. and 725 mil. is a lot of difference.Undominanthybrid (talk) 22:50, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
If the dragon ball z card game is anything to go by, Broly is stronger than cell until he reaches super perfect form, Broly's card has a power of 4.1 mil, all of cell's cards are below that except Cell, The Master (super perfect cell's card) ranking at 4.3 mil
There is also the Dragon Ball Heroes Game:
Perfect Cell: Hp 3600, 2nd Stat 3900, 3rd Stat 1000
Movie 8 Broly: Hp 2500, 2nd Stat 5800, 3rd Stat 1500
http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/clubwind/cabinet/card22/3100010221338-1.jpg
The only stat cell has over Broly is health (which makes sense due to regeneration)
Broly[]
There are many reasons that I believe Broly in the first coming is stronger than Perfect Cell.
- The Kamehameha Wave
Both Broly and Perfect Cell have battled with Full Power Super Saiyan Goku, where he fired his infamous kamehameha technique. Cell was blasted in half by the attack, however he wasn't using his maximum power yet, just ost of it. When Broly was hit with the kamehameha wave, he wasn't damaged in the slightest.
2. Goku's Confidence in Gohan
During the Cell Games, Goku was more than confident that Gohan's abilitys would outclass Perfect Cell's. However, when faced against Broly, Goku ordered Gohan to run and get out of there. If Broly really was weaker than Perfect Cell, then why would Goku take someone he believes to be even stronger than himself out of the battle?
3. Broly Second Coming
My reason above can actually be proven by the Second Coming movie. In the movie, Gohan battles Broly as a super saiyan 2, but is completely over powered. This means that a legendary super saiyan is stronger than a super saiyan 2. Back during the Cell Games, a super saiyan 2 Gohan dominated Perfect Cell. Gohan's role in these battles appear to be polar opposites.
4. Dragon Ball Heroes Card Game
If the Dragon Ball Heroes card game is of any value, Broly's legendary super saiyan card's stats are higher than Perfect Cells, except for health. The person above me talked about this too.
In short, Perfect Cell doesn't stand a chance should he fight Broly.
Evolve 20 (talk) 15:27, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
I think its Broly[]
I think Broly is stronger than Cell perfect form because they were all tortured by Broly and against Cell Goku did a good fight
It's hard to say who is stronger.
A good example would be how well FPSS gohan dealt with both perfect cell/broly.
Gohan landed blows, dodged attacks and seemed to be a little bit behind Cell as a FPSS. But if we are to assume that Broly takes place between the 10 day period of peace...Gohan got his ass handed to him as a FPSS, So did Goku.
So. We have Gohan who can tank a partially powered up Cell ( Before SSJ2 )
And we have Gohan who can't tank Broly at all.
I'm not wanking on Broly here at all, could Broly beat Cell? We don't know. Maybe if he had enough time to reach his full potential ( Which we actually don't know how strong he is ). Alot of assumptions...I guess we'll never know.
I don't get it...[]
Cell vs Gohan
Gohan tanks a beating from Cell as a FPSS
Broly vs Gohan
Flawless victory
Why do people think Perfect Cell wins this?
Broly[]
Broly would win because in the power level list it says that Broly LSSJ's power level is 1,400,000 and that Perfect Cell is 9,000,000
Where did you get these numbers?
OK I have some good facts about this 1: if broly fight the z fighters first they'd be stronger against cell then against broly 2: if ur gonna use movie 10 broly that's seven years later and if cell was alive for this seven years he'd be op as fuck even higher than or equal to super buu 3: if or gonna use lssj3 in GT cell absorbed goku ( cells pl was close to fat buu's pl before absorbing goku) and if cell has saiyan cells and he was ssj2 lvl as super perfect then wouldn't he be able to go ssj even other transformations So think if he is on ssj3 lvl in gt then If he transformed he would be ssj6 lvl but I know he never transformed before (well not ssj) but he has the spirit bomb technique and couldn't he make cell jr. And keep absorbing him And broly was hit in the abs not the chest 4: broly's power doesn't rise forever or he'd blow up 5: broly got killed in movie 10 by 2 ssj and a spirit goku who was pep talking to them boosting their confidence in winning
So pretty much cell wins
NOW HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY U BROLY FANBOYS
PS: poster above I didn't want to reply to u it automatically puts or quotes no hard feelings
Shin Izanagi's thinks Broly but also Cell[]
I'm guessing by Broly (First Coming) and Perfect Cell you're talking about Broly and Cell before they both got there zenkai boosts and roose to the SSJ2 Tier. In my opinion I think Broly is stonger then Cell and I'll tell you why. But if you just mean Broly vs Cell in a all-out brawl I'd say Cell, I'll also tell you why I think this.
If you mean Broly vs Cell in terms of power I'm going to have to go with Broly, here's why: First of all you can compare Broly as a Super Saiyan to Perfect Cell in a way. Because like how SSJ Broly tanked a fully forced kick from USSJ Vegeta, like Cell did. Now don't get the wrong idea, I'm not saying SSJ Broly and Cell are equal in power, but I'm just saying there comparable just like MSSJ Goku is to Cell. But the thing is Goku didn't have another transformation at the time and Broly did. Factor in that it only took MSSJ Gohan doubling his power to completely dominate Cell and SSJ Broly can triple his power with the form only he has: LSSJ. I know MSSJ Gohan is probably stronger then SSJ Broly but I think it wouldn't make a difference anyway.
Now if Broly and Cell would go toe to toe in a battle to the death I think that Cell would come out on top, here's why: Broly was proven to not be very smart. A: for mistaking Goku for Goten, B: for diving into lava. Cell on the other hand has the brains of Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan, Goku, Nappa, Tien, Yamcha, Raditz, Freeza, Krillin, Chiaotzu and King Cold. Also he has all of there abilites as well, Spirit Ball through Spirit Bomb. Also he has the regenaration zenkai combo, he also has, I think I made my point.
It's Just My Opinion
~Shin Izanagi
Perfect Cell will lost to Broly.[]
A discussion like this gives shame, almost. It is implicit that LSSJ Broly (First Fight) is stronger than Perfect Cell, really much stronger.
First, Cell implied that if Trunks-USSJ not have the weak point of speed, USSJ-Trunks could beat him in a fight. And we saw in the first Broly movie that USSJ-Trunks, despite not having the floor clean with her face, was almost totally unable to fight LSSJ Broly. Maybe RSSJ-Broly, but LSSJ-Broly is totally beyond their abilities.
Second, Cell is not much stronger than MSSJ-Goku (Full Power) on its 100% Perfect Cell. I would put the difference between them in half-dozen of power level difference, or just a little more. That is, if USSJ-Trunks 2x time Rosat, Vegeta ASSJ second time RoSaT, MSSJ Gohan Rosat, Full-Power Kamiccolo Rosat unite, Perfect Cell would not be able to beat them. If he were Super Perfect, I'd say he could, because killing Normal Trunks with a simple Finger Beam.
'Three, Vegeta was horrified by the power of LSSJ-Broly, while with Perfect Cell he was acting standard, and confident that he could beat him. And Vegeta could clearly feel the ki of others in this part of the saga. 'You could even fight back with Perfect Cell was a warm-up and suppressing his power , yet LSSJ-Broly was also in a warm-up, containing much of his power, and Vegeta was still terrified. This proves that there is at least a good difference in power between them.
Fourth, First-Coming Broly is practically the same level of Super Perfect Cell.
And Last..
First-Coming Broly =(same level symbol) Super Perfect Cell = SSJ2 Gohan > Perfect Cell.