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in: Forum posts, Dragon Ball Wiki Discussion

Forum:Achievements

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So, I'm sure we have all seen the message from Wikia staff alerting us of new changes around the Wiki's. One thing that they are going to be doing is the "Achievements" add-on. I won't go into the details, they can all be seen here. But basically, I thought I would get on this immediately and ask the community, do we want this for our Wiki? Please leave any comments below and place your signature in the relevant vote section. Much appreciated!

Votes[]

Support[]

Oppose[]

Discussion[]

You may also want to check this page out for extra info. I for one support the idea, I've discussed this before and think it may be a good addition to the Wiki. SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 17:37, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

This seems like a pretty neat idea. Maybe our badges could be dragon balls or special artifacts. And of course leveling up could include transformations. I would love to be a part of this. You and the others should def send a request to Special:Contact. Banan14kab (talk) 18:01, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that's the whole idea of this discussion, to get a consensus if we would like this, then we can have it it added if that's what the community wants. SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 18:35, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I thinks this is a very good and fun idea too. It will encourage some people to make pointless edits, but they should be dealt with the same way we do know with vandalism: warnings and banning. Btw, banning someone WILL remove their badges, so a ban warning is an effective mean to prevent pointless badge-hodging edits.--Sega381 18:38, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Is not a bad idea we could have achievements. Versus Zero (talk) 18:42, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

A well made point Sega. People who make pointless edits to get the badges will quickly be discouraged if they know that they will lose them when banned. SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 18:59, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

sounds good. i'm in.TheDarkPrinceReturns! (talk) 19:36, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah but if someone just want to change somethink in his user page Versus Zero (talk) 19:39, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

What? SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 19:44, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

You say that people who make pointless edits to get the badges will quickly be discouraged and am asking what if someone wants to edit somethink to his user page.Versus Zero (talk) 19:48, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I think this has a lot of potential to be good, but also to be destructive. If we implemented this, we'd have to do it very carefully. For instance, a badge for 500 edits seems innocent enough, but it would inevitably lead to huge sprees of poor edits by brand new users just trying to get the badge, and then subsequently tons of work for us. Having a badge for adding an image each to 10 pages that didn't have one previously is something that would be much better. Something like adding 5 references each to 5 pages is another example of something that would be hard to go wrong. I am strongly against purely number-of-edits based badges, though. 10X Kamehameha (talk) 20:16, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'll say I'm neutral at this point but I have a few thoughts. Keep in mind that I'm not as opposed to this as my following comment will make me sound, but I think these concerns are worth mentioning.

My big beef is that a user's usefulness simply can't be quantified by the number of edits he's made. It sort of reminds me of post counts on forums, which are sometimes jokingly linked to... (Well, click here and skim over the results if you have a decent sense of humor.) Anyway my point is that achievements might enforce that same sort of infantile notion towards edit counts. This could imply a sense of 'rank' on the wiki that might be disproportionate to how helpful/beneficial a user really is. Who deserves a badge more: A user who spends a couple hours making 100 edits to create 20 pages full of misspellings, unintentional inaccuracies and sloppy formatting, or the user who spends 20 hours making 20 edits to completely rewrite those articles to bring them up to production standard?

I can also foresee problems if we want to discourage pointless edits with warnings/bans. Let's say an indecisive user just can't figure out how he wants his user page and he edits it like 50 times trying to get it just right. I don't think we'd really be within our rights to ban him for pointless edits when he was editing a page that 'belongs' to him, and he genuinely wasn't trying to abuse the system. At the same time, I think it might be a little unfair for him to be awarded a badge just for farting around on his user page. Same thing if a user comments on 50 different blogs but never touches the wiki's articles. Should he earn a badge for that? Also, if we are to try and discourage pointless edits with warnings/bans, it seems like it will entail quite a bit more work for the moderators.

Finally, it's a bit disappointing that the badges would not be applied retroactively, which means many users who contributed immensely in the past but no longer visit the wiki would not receive anything for the work they did.

Anyway, sorry to sound like I'm raining on the parade. This is obviously an extension that will suit some wikis and not others, and it may fit in perfectly on this wiki. If you guys think it will work here, I would support giving it a trial run before we make a final decision. -- Nonoitall (talk) 20:41, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Seems alright to me as long as the contributions are worthwhile and not on the borderline of spam... we want to have many contributions but we want to make sure that they are good ones, not just to increase achievements. Seems like a good idea overall though. - PrinceZarbon (talk) 21:13, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and agree with everything said by 10X Kamehameha and Nonoitall. I think adding this only invites bad behavior and inappropriate uses of the system. Also, the fact that users are not "grandfathered" into the system detracts from established users. I mean, the idea of achievements is to give people a goal to achieve. We don't want a user's goal to be their number of edits, but rather the quality of the Wiki. I think this detracts from that and distracts users from the real purpose of the Wiki. DragonBallZGTGoku (talk) 21:15, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

This seems to be a good idea, however, as DragonBallZGTGoku mentioned, we're looking for quality more than quantity and pretty much like a coin, we have the shiny side and the "not so shiny" side. The good: Attracts users to be more contributive. The bad: it also attracts non-produtive edits. I'll remain neutral about this... Vegeta - San (talk) 21:29, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well how about this then. We simply adopt our own system. We could make templates that are kind of like achievements, however they are given out by Administrators. For instance, like Nonoitall says, if a user makes good productive edits, spends a lot of time making sure that the edits are correct with spelling etc, we then award the user with a certain template. Does that make sense? Views? SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 23:52, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Something like that might be cool, but I'm pretty sure it would run into some problems. The first one is that we can't really prevent a user from just looking at the coding for the template and adding it to their pages themselves. There is no way to protect against that. The "Achievement" system doesn't seem to have any sysop involvement, making it purely by the numbers, sure, but it also means that it's impossible to just GIVE yourself a new badge or achievement title. DragonBallZGTGoku (talk) 00:57, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Something like wikipedia's barn star award system might work. It's basically a rectangular box that contains a picture of some type of star (there are many variations), the name of the award, a description of why it was earned, and the person that is giving it. Anyone can give these to anyone else, just to show that they are appreciated. A user could theoretically give themselves some, but it looks bad to. 10X Kamehameha (talk) 01:20, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

ya that sounds good --Ponds11 01:35, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I think that it is a good idea i think it will motivate people to do their best but it will also make people do false edits but i still think its a good idea as long as the admins can take away a badge if some1 makes to many false edits it just has 2 b a controlled change and it can be a positive changeVEGETATheLegendarySuperSayian (talk) 01:53, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is such a good idea. Obviously, we would have all the good, solid edits that are given through this, but more often than not, new users will abuse the system, by making terrible edits and such. Perhaps, if we deicde to make our own system, like SSJ4 Lewich said above, we could have a page which only admins can edit and has a list of users who deserve recognition. I can see the benefits of this, but I see more downsides and so I will remain neutral. SSWerty (talk) 05:04, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

  • Maybe like ssj4 lewich said,we could make are own sustem,with are own rules,about how the achievements are won.Some of the rules could be :
  1. Users shouldn't won a badge for making pointless edits.
  2. Users shouldn't won a badge for making an edits with grammar or dictation or spelling mistakes.
  3. Users shouldn't won a badge for posting a comment or creating a blog.
  4. Users shouldn't won a badge for making edits on there user page.
  5. Users shouldn't won a badge for making edits in talk page.Versus Zero (talk) 08:21, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

But DragonBallZGTGoku, they should only be awarded by admins. If we see another user giving themselves an achievement, we can remove it, and then warn them. SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 13:00, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Some very valid points have been made here. I agree that counting the number of edits is, by far, a very limited way of measuring a user's contribution to a wiki. But a better method to measure the quailty of their contributions usually can't be automated, and could be pretty subjective, which of course is what leads us to the edit count method. Nonetheless, I have not been able to find a list of the different achievements available, but I guess that if we find that "number of edits" it not the most important thing, we could disable or put less points to those achievements. Unless that's the only kind that exists, of course, or unless they can't be customized that much.
On the subject of not being retroactive, I know it sounds unfair, but the idea of this feature seem to be to encourage new contributions or more movement in a wiki, not to reward the efforts done by existing or previous editors. If they were retroactive, the extension would probably be pretty useless, as the old editors would be ranked very high, and no new user would be able to reach them (which is a problem that would arise over time anyway, but I'm not sure how the extension handles that). In this case, a pseudo solution would be to give honorific achievements, outside of the extension, to existing users based on their past contributions.
I say we consider giving it a trial run, and if things doesn't work, maybe trying out a custom admin-given achievements system, which of course might be more subjective, but more controllable.--Sega381 14:16, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

That actually sounds like a very suitable solution Sega381. Did you check this page out also? SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 14:30, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

That's an interesting link. Note that badges cannot be taken away, even by admins. 10X Kamehameha (talk) 21:46, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
Oh geez. I think that just reaffirms my position in thinking this whole thing is a bad idea. DragonBallZGTGoku (talk) 22:02, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I've read it. It talks about customizing the badges, and there is something about tracks, but not a lot of info about it. For example, it says nothing about which kind of actions can be considered as badge-related for new tracks. I guess the only way would be to try it out.--Sega381 03:06, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. So what's the verdict? SSJ4 Lewich (talk) 12:09, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

I recently edited some pages on the Simpsons Wiki. They have the awards system there and it seems to work fine, as the awards you gain are for small things, like editing your user page or making your first edit. Perhaps, if we kept the prerequisites for getting an award small, like editing a page once, it wouldn't be too much of a problem. Then, after trialing that for a bit, we could open ourselves up to some larger awards, like an award for 100 edits. Just an idea for how could trial this. SSWerty (talk) 22:03, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
lol, these awards kinda remind me of the trophies u earn in ps3 games XD TheDarkPrinceReturns! (talk) 22:13, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with 10x Kamehameha and Nonoitall, it could be good for the wiki and push other users to make edits, but it could also turn out to be a disaster. I tried incorporating something similar to this wiki and it was turned down. After I heard the reasons why I decided it was for the best. While this may not be the same thing, it could still turn to disaster. I am still open to it though.--SuperSaiyan3Broly (talk) 22:18, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

I have changed my mind about the Achievements, I think it should be trialed for a while to see how it does.SuperSaiyan3Broly (talk) 23:15, August 14, 2010 (UTC)


I have an idea instead of having achievements earned by the editors,we could have award titles earned by the editors,based not on how many edits they did,but on how useful there are and what the edit the most.For example we could have,an award title that is earned, by the user, that edit the most pictures.The award title could be picture crazy. Versus Zero (talk) 14:42, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

I may be coming in to this a little late so might i ask one question. Have you desided yet? if not, I might say that this is (in my opinion) not what dragon ball wiki should be about.
I think it is a place where people should be able to find info on the subjects they love. it is an encyclopedia-style information place. the real award is knowing that you have kept this place up to date and available to everyone. it is aplace for debating subjects on blogs and readinbg dbz news. I personally do not want little awards for things like 10 edits.
Jack678 (talk) 16:06, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
Badges would definitely result in a flood of edits. Imagine that you sign onto a new wiki. Every single user you come across has flashy awards pinned to their page. I know that my first action would be asking, how do I get these awards. my next course of action would be, lets get them.
Sabien5 (talk) 00:47, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
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