We know turtle has a power level of 0.008, so does that mean turtles will fuse and become weaker than they used to be since they’ll be 0.000064 ?
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Believe it or not lots of people on this wiki disagreed with me on this and said Fusion Reborn was canon.
Others too.
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I sure did !
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Before the Brolly movie came out I said somewhere that Gogeta did not exist because Fusion Reborn and GT weren’t canon.
In the Brolly movie, Goku and Vegeta talk like Fusion Reborn never happened and they name Gogeta for the first time during the movie.
This proves that I was right !
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In various pages Goku, Vegeta, Frieza and a Broly are listed as the most powerful mortals of Universe 7.
Android 17 deserves to be added to this list.
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Kefla's page states that she was equal to SSB Goku in her SSJ form and was only able to wound SSB Kaioken Goku due to favourable circumstances and catching him by surprise.
But every single person on this wiki's Vs threads calls me a Kefla lowballer when I say this and they say that Kefla is much more powerful than SSB Kaioken Goku.
My question is that, since the entire Wikia unanimously disagrees with it, why is that written on her page ?
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Stryzzar wrote: Alright, I'll try something else. Just how and when did Piccolo find the time to shoot to God tier? Goku and Vegeta went through several zenkais as well as at least three HTC training sessions (Piccolo actually turned one down because he was sure he couldn't keep up). Piccolo has consistently been weaker than Goku and Vegeta throughout Super, so how do you justify him magically jumping that high in power?
All the conclusions you came to involve a series of fights where everyone is being lowballed to make Piccolo look stronger in comparison.
I'll try follow your train of logic:
Piccolo = Gohan (during training) -> Gohan = Goku (sparring match) -> SSB KK Goku > Zamasu (because he pushed back one attack) -> Zamasu = Vegito
---> Piccolo > Vegito
That what you're saying?
That is a grossly exaggerated version of what I am saying.
How did 17 who was much weaker than Piccolo at the time of the cell games become that strong by fighting Poachers ?
Plot.
The original nameless namekian was described as a prodigy (who else was described as a prodigy ?). Piccolo has on several occasions demonstrated incredible improvement. From being wrecked by Nappa to being stronger than 1st form frieza. From being wrecked by 3rd form Frieza to rivalling an SSJ. From being dominated by random frieza soldiers to being superior to Base U6 saga saiyans. In the ToP arc, Gohan even describes Piccolo's ability to improve and rate of improvement as phenomenal and is simply amazed by it.
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Um... No.
SSJ2 Kefla >>> Suppressed Jiren >>> Infinite Zamasu >>>> Trunks > SSB Vegito.
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@negative: Just because characters have become stronger doesn't mean multipliers change, since we have no evidence the contrary, the multipliers are still the same (Also, rewatch the Raditz fight and you will see what I mean about multipliers).
Since Base Kefla even after multiplying her power tens of times was still unable to beat SSB Goku before powering up further, yes being 2 thirds of Gohan and thus 2 thirds of SSB Goku would put him above Base Kefla.
The SPC was stronger because it managed to defeat/overpower the U6 Namekians which Gohan's Kamehameha was not powerful enough to do. Furthermore, they were blown away by its power and weren't very impressed with Gohan's Kanehameha and didn't really consider it a threat.
Piccolo is > SSJ2 Goku because he wrecked SSJ2 Gohan who stalemated SSJ2 Goku.
Piccolo and Gohan were both exhausted after their training indicating that they had both been fighting seriously. Also just because it is sparring doesn't mean Gohan's durability magically drops.
And lastly, SSB Goku, SSJ Kefla (at least before powering up further) and Ultimate Gohan are all equals and by word of GoD (see what I did there !) are tens of times more powerful than Base Kefla. Base Kefla didn't even try to fight SSB Goku, which shows that he operated on a completely different level compared to her. Ultimate Gohan just isn't on a completely different level compared to Piccolo.
As I have said before Frieza saga Goku would wreck SSJ1 Saiyan Saga Goku. Power-creep is a very big thing in Dragonball deal with it.
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@Negative: You accused of me saying shit like Piccolo would beat Frieza !
I see no reason why the multipliers from the raditz saga are not still valid. And for God's sake I never said he was stronger than Ultimate Gohan, just more than 2 thirds as strong as him.
Did you even watch Pirina and Saonel Vs Gohan and Piccolo ? Piccolo's SBC > Ultimate Gohan's Kamehameha.
Even if we assume that Goku was serious against Buu, that still means Buu is barely stronger than base Goku while Piccolo is well above SSJ2 Goku so he'd still wreck him.
And lastly, if Piccolo was one fiftieth or even one tenth as strong as Ultimate Gohan, he would not even be able to scratch Gohan, let alone spar with him as a near equal and damage him. SSJ2 Kefla was strong enough to beaten by a point blank Kamehameha from UI Goku yet she was able to completely neg his attacks despite the fact he was catching her off guard due to UI dodging. The gap between Piccolo and Ultimate Gohan should be very small indeed, definitely smaller than the gap between SSB Goku and Base Kefla.
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@Negative: I literally only said half of the stuff you claim I said. Stop trying to make me look like an idiot, the only person who it makes look bad is you.
I get the multipliers from Raditz's power level readings which is the only reason why I mentioned the Raditz fight in the 1st place.
Also, Piccolo wrecked SSJ2 Gohan who stalemated ssj2 goku who should be leagues above his base form. Which should be much stronger than U6 Base Vegeta/Goku (actually backed up by Piccolo's feats in the U6 arc only when he was much weaker than he is now). Base Vegeta was way beyond Gotenks. Gotenks is way beyond Buu. You are massively wanking Buu.
For God's sake Champa said that Kefla's power increase by transforming into SSJ was much more than is normal for a saiyan that is where I get those multipliers from like I have said many times.
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I'll use another method of scaling.
SSJ2 Kefla >>> Suppressed Jiren >>> Infinite Zamasu >>>> Trunks > SSB Vegito.
Therefore ToP Saga SSJ2 >>>>>>>>>>> GB arc SSB.
Piccolo is LEAGUES above a ToP Saga arc SSJ2.
As already established, Vegito is at best 30-40x as strong as a GB arc SSB.
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Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Did I just saw... someone suggesting that base Kefla would lose to Piccolo?
Since Piccolo is more than 2 thirds as strong as someone who was equal to someone who SSJ1 Kefla could only stalemate. Yes Piccolo is clearly stronger than Base Kefla who is less than one-fiftieth (max one-tenth) of SSJ1 Kefla based on Champa's statement.
Even if we wank SSJ Kefla and say that she is thrice as strong as KK SSB Goku, she would still not even be 9 times as strong as Piccolo, while her base form is MAX one-tenth as strong as her SSJ Form, meaning Piccolo would still win.
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NegativeSymptom wrote:
LordWhis wrote: Buu is fodder to Gotenks who U6 Saga Base Vegeta literally pinky-flicked away. Stop wanking Buu.
Ok? What does that have to do with anything? I never said Buu was stronger than Gotenks, I said Buu is stronger than Piccolo. Which he is.
Also, you say that Gohan would beat Base Kefla.
I said "maybe". And I only said it because Gohan went toe to toe with Blue Goku for a bit. Hence why I said "maybe", because they only fought for a little bit and it was only a sparring match.
Piccolo's SPC > Gohan's Kamehameha
The hell did you get that idea from? Whatever, I'll let it slide.
which means, based on the Raditz fight, Piccolo is more than 2 thirds as strong as Gohan.
Whoooooo boy. Thats some funny shit right there my friend. Also, you are using data based on the very beginning of Z. We are at the end of Super. I don't think Raditz saga applies. Raditz was stronger than Piccolo in the Raditz saga, so I guess that means Raditz is still stronger than Piccolo, even at the end of Super. By your logic, Raditz is stronger than Piccolo, which by your logic makes Raditz stronger than Buu because Piccolo is somehow stronger than Ult Gohan, who is stronger than Buu. So by your logic, Raditz is the strongest villain in Z. See the problem? It doesn't make sense. Just because one character was stronger in a much earlier part doesn't mean he's still stronger.
If Base Kefla can't even beat Gohan, there is no way she is beating a battle genius with well over 2 thirds the raw power, regen and a tonne of hax.
Again, I said "maybe". You told me to stop wanking Buu, but you are the one wanking Piccolo to another dimension. Also, just because a character has a stronger attack than another character, doesn't mean he's stronger. The Final Flash is stronger than the Kamehameha, but Goku is stronger than Vegeta. So just because Piccolo's SBC might be stronger than Gohan's Kamehameha, doesn't mean Piccolo is stronger.
Actually as Ultimate Gohan is tens of times more powerful than she is based on Champa's statement, both he and Piccolo would have no trouble destroying her.
Champa literally never said that Gohan was stronger than Kafla. In fact, he never mentioned Gohan at all, because, you know, Kafla never fought Gohan. So why would Champa say anything about Gohan regarding his strength compared to Kafla's when Kafla never even fought him? Don't go spouting nonsense without any real evidence.
Piccolo > U6 Saga Base Vegeta > Gotenks > Buu.
Based on the raditz fight we know that SPC is a 3x multiplier while Kamehameha is a 2x multiplier therefore since Piccolo's SPC > Gohan's Kamehameha that means Piccolo is more than 2 thirds as strong as Goku.
Champa said that Kefla's power increase was much higher than normal when she transformed this means her power increased by more than 50 times (or 10 based on the interview I posted above). Yet she still was only about even with non-kaioken SSB Goku who Gohan is equal to by word of God.
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LordWhis wrote: I was disappointed by how badly they treated Piccolo though. They should have shown him using the kaioken and becoming as strong as initial sign goku and helping out against Jiren in vegeta and Goku's first fight against him. He could have been quickly knocked out by Jiren after getting serious or perhaps KOed but waking up to block the attack loco jiren sent towards the audience stands (getting eliminated in the process). He wouldn't have really conflicted with the story but it would have been more honourable than being eliminated by a bug man in a gag sequence.
Because of this I was a bit salty about how well 17 was being treated (he was pretty much the MVP !) Though by the last episode or so, the sheer awesomeness was too much for anyone to be salty.
Piccolo accidentally killing Gamisaris while powering up would have also been cool.
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Stryzzar wrote: And again, where did you get these statements from? SSB Kaio-ken Goku one-hit KO'ed Gohan.
I said SSB Goku not KK SSB Goku !
Gohan being equal to SSB Goku was stated in the by the narrator during the last time segment in the next episode.
Furthermore, they were both shown to be dead even, forcing Goku to have to use the Kaioken to beat Gohan, with which he admittedly one-shotted him.
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LordWhis wrote:
NervousShipper wrote: It's Libel because he didn't say it, unless you don't know how quotes work.
For some reason what I write is going into the quote box.
Fixed it. There was an extra divclassquote that was turning the whole post into a quote.
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Stryzzar wrote:
She was losing to Goku because she's less skilled than Goku. She was all raw power, but had trouble hitting him. But Goku could not afford to get hit by one of her laser beam things or he would have been a goner.
You're getting confused between UI Goku Vs SSJ2 Kefla and KKSSB/SSB Goku Goku Vs SSJ1 Kefla, the former was the one with the lasers and the dodging not the latter.
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Stryzzar wrote:
That's because SBC itself is a far more powerful attack than a Kamehameha, not the user being stronger. During the Raditz Saga, Goku's Kamehameha only increased his power by 2.5 times, while for Piccolo it increased his power by 3.5 times.
Hence Piccolo is more than 2 thirds as strong as Ultimate Gohan, exactly my point.
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NervousShipper wrote: It's Libel because he didn't say it, unless you don't know how quotes work.
For some reason what I write is going into the quote box.
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